Virtual Dr. seems more than a little sick: "Member Participation Issues"

[Nix]

I think also that there needs to be a set of guidelines that need to be followed in regards to locking / deleting of threads.

I had a thread deleted a year ago with not a sniff of a private mail or anything as to why it had happened.

When I questioned why it had happened I was told by other members that it was up to individual moderators to do what they wanted some delete and notify by pm, some lock and notify by pm, some lock with explanation in thread, some lock with no explanation and some just delete.

BJ gave me and explanation at the time in regards to it being an OT thread but still the fact that no courtesy had been shown was what upset me the most.

http://discussions.virtualdr.com/sho...d.php?t=159418

And since then I have been so scarred that I haven't fallen asleep at my PC again. LOL

BTW this thread, started 19 days ago, now has an equal number of posts to the What Little Program.... thread which was started 2+ years ago.

[Nix]

Also came across this old thread http://discussions.virtualdr.com/sho...d.php?t=159431 which has some interesting thoughts from a year ago.

[DrMDJ]

I just wanted to jump in and say a couple things (don't have time for more).

This is not about individuals or individual/specific instances. It would be flat out wrong, unneccessary and unproductive to get in to that. AND I might add, I do not think that is in ANY way where Katmac was going here (though some may have thought so). This is about policies, their enforcement, consistency in them, lack of (perhaps) sufficient" guidelines (for both member and mods), the way things get done/handled, and so forth. There have been problems in this area. And while I have not been personally involved in them, I have seen them and heard about them. And simply saying things like that members can use PMs or whatever to communicate their issues is not necessarily sufficient. At least has not seemed to be of late.

[Nix]

Another thing that I have consistently noticed in the last week is that around 3-4pm AEST which is GMT 11+ is that the number of members logged on drops dramatically yesterday including myself there were only two others logged on.

So we need to have a push for more members from the southern hemisphere or we need a few more night owls in the northern hemisphere.

You won't really turn into pumpkins at midnight you know.....

[JPnyc]

I have a friend in Warrnambool that I invited to join. She's technologically challenged, so I thought this site would really be of immense help. So far no dice though.

[Abhoth]

We love the technologically challenged, did you tell her that? We'll beat her up, did you tell her that? It's late, approach with caution!

[Steve R Jones]

Coming up with a set of iron clad guidelines on “rules enforcement” would be a difficult task due to the HUGE amount of variables.

Take Nix’s deleted thread regarding falling asleep at the computer for example. On one hand it was cute and funny. On the other hand it was blatantly Off Topic which is a clear violation of the AUP. Then you factor in that he’s a long term valuable member. It could be easily argued that he should have known better than to start an OT thread?!?!?

I was recently publicly chastised by a moderator at another site. I answered a new members question in the Software forum. Went to the XP forum and saw that someone else had answered the same duplicate question. I merely pointed out in the second thread that the site staff preferred that questions only be asked one time so as not to waste anyone’s time. I thought I was being helpful. The mod thought I was being rude and said so in the thread as he locked it. Not a word was said to the new member. Go figure.

Then there was the time on another site I made what I thought was a funny joke about one of the sites admins in their OT forum. I had known the guy for a couple of years. He reset my 2500 post count back to zero.

Had either one of my situations been done on a different site, they would probably been handled differently due to the difference in personalities involved. The second incident could have involved a reaction of nothing happening all the way to banishment.

So as simplistic a violation as Nix’s thread was and as good as his standing at VDR is, maybe saying nothing was a “courtesy.”

[Leurgy]

It could be easily argued that he should have known better than to start an OT thread?!?!?

BIG drawback of frequenting this forum. I find the atmosphere very stifling. Guess thats what happens when a site is owned by a bunch of suits who epistolize from on high. A little levity never made anybody go blind or grow hair on their palms.

maybe saying nothing was a “courtesy.”

That is no courtesy in my books. It leaves the poster and many others wondering what exactly was wrong and only increases the stuffy atmosphere as everybody is now overly concerned about saying the wrong thing. It shows arrogance and smugness on the part of those able to shut down a thread without the slightest concern for the feelings of those affected.

A continuing theme in this thread is the mention by many that they have carefully considered what to say in their post in this thread. This reveals that many people feel deeply about their participation in this forum. To be treated with arrogance and heavy handedness causes hurt and dismay and takes significantly from the feeling of community.

Maybe the best solution to the dilema being addressed by this thread is a complete shake up at the Moderator level. Clean them out and bring in some new blood with some fresh ideas about how to run a forum. The "old boys network" obviously is not working.

[jslater25]

While I have not read the entire thread due to the length of when I first found it, I will say that what I have read from DrMDJ's posts are very accurate. When I first found this site several years ago, it was through a search engine. I doubt I would have found it otherwise. At the time, it was amazing to see how many members were online on a consistant basis. Postings were numerous, responses were quick (and accurate) without flame wars (although there were a few).

I don't know what it will take to keep members here. I have felt sorrow at the exudus of people. Having been forced to go to other sites looking for answers, I noticed that a great deal of those who were once VDr members and highly regarded, are now members elsewhere (typically you can find a group of them all together).

As for the search engine issue: I found it rather odd that a site dedicated to making computers easier to manage made it difficult to search the site for answers. In the past, on the main page, there was a search box located close to the top of the page. I clicked in it when I first came to the site thinking I could search the site. Turns out it was either an advertisment or something, as it took me to a Google type interface with results from every site EXCEPT VDr. I was thoroughly confused. Later, I did manage to figure out how to search VDr, but that should never have been an issue.

I apologize if this post is somewhat hard to follow, I am at work and have been interrupted roughly 100 times since first starting.

This is NOT the first thread that has mentioned the 'slow bleeding' of VDr. I remember this topic being mentioned (then deleted) over two years ago.

[bistro]

Coming up with a set of iron clad guidelines on “rules enforcement” would be a difficult task due to the HUGH amount of variables.

I was recently publicly chastised by a moderator at another site. I answered a new members question in the Software forum. Went to the XP forum and saw that someone else had answered the same duplicate question. I merely pointed out in the second thread that the site staff preferred that questions only be asked one time so as not to waste anyone’s time. I thought I was being helpful. The mod thought I was being rude and said so in the thread as he locked it. Not a word was said to the new member. Go figure.

Then there was the time on another site I made what I thought was a funny joke about one of the sites admins in their OT forum. I had known the guy for a couple of years. He reset my 2500 post count back to zero.

Had either one of my situations been done on a different site, they would probably been handled differently due to the difference in personalities involved. The second incident could have involved a reaction of nothing happening all the way to banishment.

Ditto. To get everyone together and come up with a scenario-based AUP would be impossible. How many scenarios can one come up with? I really don't want to read a 1,000 page AUP (which would probably be the 'abridged" version anyway). Moderating is based on the AUP, common sense and, whether we like it or not, individual perception. Sometimes that perception is wrong....it just happens. On a questionable post, a good moderator will take a step back, put the ego on a shelf and ask the question: "Is this what I am perceiving it to be or could it at all possibly be something else? Is the motivation for this post what I suspect it to be? Am I over-reacting? Where is the justification for my suspicions that this turkey is blatantly challenging the AUP and/or forum courtesy? Is it a real effort to go off-topic or is it just an "aside" for the moment?" etc., etc., etc.. There are times when a mod has to act fast in order to nip it in the bud (as Barney Fife would say)...sometimes that action may appear harsh, but past experience has demonstrated that if action wasn't taken immmediately, then there would be a lot of damage to repair later. My method: After thinking it through, put a mod-edit in the questionable post...editing out if necessary the "offending' portions...put a straightforward statement in there regarding the edit (not slamming or pushing the point), then PM the person with the detailed explanation. Yes...it can still be embarrassing to the person to see that in the thread and there will always be people who will complain about it; taking it as an affront to their dignity. If so, then I will PM them again and simply request that they grow up and get over it. Odds are that nobody will even remember the incident in a day or two. I know there are sites out there that seem to have the policy of publicly slamming offenders in order to "teach" all the other members/vistors the ills and woes of going against their AUP. Wrong method. The only excuse for doing that is if the offender is really going overboard and is obviously attempting to perpetuate the problem.
People just have to realize that all too often it is a matter of perception and moderators are subject to misunderstanding as much as anyone else. Hard to believe I know, but there is a human behind that title of Moderator or Administrator (or so I've heard anyway). Believe me, a good moderator, one with the right motivation, finds out real quick that it ain't no ego trip...it can be downright hard work; often having to make some gut-wrenching calls. He/she must be willing to listen and be ready to answer some hard questions regarding policies, questionable posts, etc.. Not always fun job; rewarding at times (a few times), but for the most part just work.

The words of Bistro shall end there, for he noticeth that he hath entered into the Dreaded Realm of Rambling...

[BIG JOHN]

Thank you mister Bistro, could have not said it better myself. The moderators are human like everyone else & sure mistakes are made. You have to have a certain personality type to do that job, sometimes you have to be a psycologist, a cop, a teacher all in one & to top it off the only payment they get is a little bit of appreciation from the members & a lot from myself. I think we have a fine mod staff here & I dont see changing it anytime soon. BJ

[zipulrich]

Additionaly, that's what the mod room is for. Often if a moderator is in doubt as to the best course of action, he/she'll post the thread there in the hopes of getting further input as to the best tact to take. Checks and balances, and all that.

[LindaHewitt]

Moderators have a big job. They have to stop people who want to spam the site, keep everything civil and on topic and participate.

Steve Jones said:

maybe saying nothing was a “courtesy.”

I think that Steve is right. Only one time has a moderator contacted me by email because she thought that I was spamming, when I was merely recommending a product. It was a little off-putting but it wouldn't stop me from being a regular at VDR. Later, after reading a number of my posts, she apologized and all was forgotten.

It would be nice, if all moderators handled things this way but sometimes there are not enough hours in the day.

Just as we know that there have to be ads on this site for it to continue to be free, I think that we should give moderators the benefit of the doubt or follow the steps that Big John has laid out. In any case, IMO, old issues should be buried and never seen again.

Cheers,

Linda

[bistro]

In any case, IMO, old issues should be buried and never seen again.

That's what my wife kept saying when she tied me up and tried to toss me in the trunk of our car....

( Sorry...couldn't resist).

[Leurgy]

Watch it Bistro. Even though that wasn't humorous it sure seems like a sly attempt at humour and you know what happens to people who try to have fun around here.