OT 9/26/03 Ethics 101

[Nix]

Hey, I don't think I'm an android or otherwise how would my exoskeleton grow ?

Maybe they replace it at night.

[Nix]

Originally posted by Leurgy
I expect my connection to the internet to enjoy the same rights to privacy as other communications devices that I use

Your connection might be private but once your in the virtual world your sharing it with everyone else there.

A bit like going to a sports game for example, you have a nice private drive in your car - your means of getting you there (dial up / cable) - but once you're at the game (internet) you have to share the experience with everyone else including the people trying to sell you hotdogs, icecream etc.

[Calpitor]

Originally posted by Leurgy
Hi all, and especially Calpitor:

"My question is how reasonable is your expectation to privacy while being connected to the net?"

Hi back Leurgy nice weather in Hogtown? Cold and wet up her all weekend; probably explains all the time I've spent on this thread.

While I agree with you that your presumuption of privacy would seem reasonable on its face doesn't necessarily make us both right. I've tried to make previous attempts of using more closely related examples which seemed to get me in trouble or cloud the issue so please allow me a little latitude.

You're in a police station, for some innocuous reason such as to pay a parking ticket, and you decide to call your spouse. The pay phone is out of order so you use the courtesy phone. Do you expect that your right to privacy should be extended to this private and most likely mundane telephone conversation? If you do you'd be wrong. The police would be within their rights to 'tap' that phone.
Incidentally if you used the payphone and an officer, who happened to be in earshot, was eavesdropping and listened to you arrange making a dope deal your right to privacy wouldn't hold water either but they wouldn't be allowed to listen electronically i.e. wire tap.

Why? It all boils down to the way the courts define "reasonable expectation."

Moving on to things a little closer to our area of interest the government already keeps surveillance of queries on search engines and who visits sites like EarnstZundel&Friends.com or NeoNaziBombBuilding101.ca. not that these 2 sites exist or at least God I hope they don't. I probably got my name on another list just for searching for the name Earnst Zundel! oops!

What would stop a nation's government from say creating a piece of software like say "America's Army" (a fine game I hope and believe is totally above board) and embedding within it software such a cookie trackers, web loggers, and something that inventories files on your computer as long as part of the E.U.L.A. contains your permission to do so the moment you click "I Agree"? Zip. Zilch. Nada. Nothing.

Good grief I can't believe I wrote that last sentence! My grade 10 English teacher is probably rolling over in her grave for using a run on sentence. But MS Word grammar check had no problems with it???

[Calpitor]

Originally posted by Nix
Hey, I don't think I'm an android or otherwise how would my exoskeleton grow ?

Maybe they replace it at night.

Well at least this isn't another thing about pizza!

[user595212]

Calpitor, really! Blame it on the Bee Gees?

I thought we were supposed to blame it on the bossa nova.


All right, here's my 2 cents: I think all the security measures, push for warrantless searches, etc. etc., are just a smokescreen to keep everyone in the dark about why we failed to stop 9/11 when there were apparently a lot of clues there.

There was a lot of stupidity.

You'll never convince me that if the CIA and FBI could've just talked to each other, we might have been able to head it off.

See below. I was shocked. If even a portion of this is true, well . . . it's frightening how vulnerable we are.

Unanswered Questions

I used to think with the Cold War over and the Communist Soviet state dead, well, we had it made. I lived through the nuclear drills where we kids would dive under our desks (as if that would protect us from a bomb!) and later the Cuban Missile Crisis -- that was the most scared I had ever been in my life. Until 9/11.

But we Americans are to a certain extent naive and spoiled, because Brits and other Europeans certainly know what it is to be bombed, attacked, invaded, threatened with annihilation.

Cheers
Wendy

[Nix]

I remember as a child of about 12 (1979) my mother saying one night that we would all be dead in the next 10 years if the cold war continued the way it was.

I remember crying myslef to sleep that night - not wanting to be dead.

I'm sure glad that my mums prediction was not correct.

[Leurgy]

I'm Canadian but I lived in Minneapolis for about a year in 1963 (I was travelling through Montana with my father when Kennedy...........)well, anyway..... and i went to Whittier Junior School and we had nuclear bomb drills and had to dive under our desks and then we had one where we all went to the Gym and hunkered down there.

So, I was in grade six, 11 years old, and every morning, during the announcements, we all pledged Allegiance to the Flag. But that wasn't my flag. I got a lot of pressure to cover my heart and recite along.

Americans are extremly patriotic and I admire them for that, wish we were. But was it ethical to make me pledge Allegiance to somebody else's flag?

Calpitor:

Got sick of TO a long time ago, I'm nestled amongst The Blue Mountains now, although home is Weston.

[jmtjet]

At 66 years of age I remember the cold war very well. That was the time of civil defence and bomb shelters. A scary time-no doubt. But with the Chinese and Iranians having nuclear weapons the world is heading back to time of uncertainty, maybe less stable than the cold war era. Throw in the terrorists and things get really scary. All the free nations of the world must stand together. Briton knows this. That's why they stood with us on Iraq. A line must be drawn in the sand. Our freedom must be defended or we won't have to worry about whether or not our right to privacy is being violated.

whew--- that's my .02 cents on this subject. Good night all.

[Calpitor]

I was expelled from Lampson Street Public, Victoria B.C. at the tender age of 12 in1962. The reason for this was my topic for my first public speaking excersize. I chose to speak of the Children of Hiroshima and one "Little Boy". I started off explaining why I thought "Duck and Cover" was so stupid......

Leurgy as far as taking the oath I can understand the conflict you felt. My parents subsequently had me enrolled in a Catholic School for the 2 months we had left before the Forces transferred us to Ottawa. Think you stood out? Try being the poor slob who got excused from Religion Class some of the Nuns even referred to me as "that heathen". I tell you Cheech and Chong's Sister Mary Elephant holds a special place in my heart.

[OilPatch197]

OH NO!!!

We Went to Iraq to get "WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION!!!!"

Iraq is a "Axis of EVIL"

On the 'identity theft' thing. Keep in mind that a large percentage of these thefts begin straight from roadside mailboxes that have no lock of any kind. All these theives have to do is look for boxes with the 'flag' up for outgoing mail. And follow the mail carrier at a safe distance and watch them stuff up a box.

Yeah, but LOOK at the GOVERMENTS DROP BOXES, you got to get a chain and yank the thing from the concrete(much like robbing a ATM)

SOOO, we are surfing the Internet with Countryside Unlocked Mail boxes, and Theifs are looking for mail!

HOW do we make our unlocked mailboxes into the solid Dropboxes the post Office has?
I MEAN how do we make our idenity on the Internet Less Noticable(like a Mailbox in a Circle drive) and make it more secure(like a Post office Drop Box)


AND ONE MORE THING, Airport security,
We are overreacting, all we had to do is make stronger cabin doors(bulletproof) and Give the Pilots Guns. That's it, no airport security(for the passengers)
But, I underestimated the Ignorance of Goverment and wimpy passengers.

There is a reason I won't fly, Airport security. PERIOD

I expect my connection to the internet to enjoy the same rights to privacy as other communications devices that I use

A bit like going to a sports game for example, you have a nice private drive in your car - your means of getting you there (dial up / cable) - but once you're at the game (internet) you have to share the experience with everyone else including the people trying to sell you hotdogs, icecream etc.

not EXACTLY!

you drive to the parking lot, you find a place to park(your on THEIR WEBSITE) ONCE your IP finds a place to park, then you go to the GATE(the "enter" to a site) you ENTER the sports arena, but because you ENTER the arena, it dosn't give them to SEARCH YOU WITHOUT CAUSE, so when YOU enter a website, you SHOULD have some rights, kinda like a "Bill of rights" for your location, even tho you've entered a site, and unless you agree to terms, you should be Just fine.

and I would like to see E-Mail operated like the US Postal service, with the same rights and Fines if somone does steal your Email.

[Calpitor]

Originally posted by OilPatch197
OH NO!!!

We Went to Iraq to get "WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION!!!!"

Iraq is a "Axis of EVIL"

ANGERED BY SNUBBING, LIBYA, CHINA
SYRIA FORM AXIS OF JUST AS EVIL
Cuba, Sudan, Serbia Form Axis of Somewhat Evil; Other Nations Start Own Clubs

Beijing (SatireWire.com) — Bitter after being snubbed for membership in the "Axis of Evil," Libya, China, and Syria today announced they had formed the "Axis of Just as Evil," which they said would be way eviler than that stupid Iran-Iraq-North Korea axis President Bush warned of his State of the Union address.


Axis of Evil members, however, immediately dismissed the new axis as having, for starters, a really dumb name. "Right. They are Just as Evil... in their dreams!" declared North Korean leader Kim Jong-il. "Everybody knows we're the best evils... best at being evil... we're the best."

Diplomats from Syria denied they were jealous over being excluded, although they conceded they did ask if they could join the Axis of Evil.

"They told us it was full," said Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

"An Axis can't have more than three countries," explained Iraqi President Saddam Hussein. "This is not my rule, it's tradition. In World War II you had Germany, Italy, and Japan in the evil Axis. So you can only have three. And a secret handshake. Ours is wicked cool."

THE AXIS PANDEMIC

International reaction to Bush's Axis of Evil declaration was swift, as within minutes, France surrendered.

Elsewhere, peer-conscious nations rushed to gain triumvirate status in what became a game of geopolitical chairs. Cuba, Sudan, and Serbia said they had formed the Axis of Somewhat Evil, forcing Somalia to join with Uganda and Myanmar in the Axis of Occasionally Evil, while Bulgaria, Indonesia and Russia established the Axis of Not So Much Evil Really As Just Generally Disagreeable.

With the criteria suddenly expanded and all the desirable clubs filling up, Sierra Leone, El Salvador, and Rwanda applied to be called the Axis of Countries That Aren't the Worst But Certainly Won't Be Asked to Host the Olympics; Canada, Mexico, and Australia formed the Axis of Nations That Are Actually Quite Nice But Secretly Have Nasty Thoughts About America, while Spain, Scotland, and New Zealand established the Axis of Countries That Sometimes Ask Sheep to Wear Lipstick.

"That's not a threat, really, just something we like to do," said Scottish Executive First Minister Jack McConnell.


While wondering if the other nations of the world weren't perhaps making fun of him, a cautious Bush granted approval for most axes, although he rejected the establishment of the Axis of Countries Whose Names End in "Guay," accusing one of its members of filing a false application. Officials from Paraguay, Uruguay, and Chadguay denied the charges.

Israel, meanwhile, insisted it didn't want to join any Axis, but privately, world leaders said that's only because no one asked them.

by Andrew Marlatt

[richie259]

*wants to reply*

*wasn't alive during the cold war*

*feels left out of conversation*

[Calpitor]

Wanted to take this opportunity to say thanks to all who replied. It's been fun.

Special note to JoJoGunn: I haven't had this kind of fun since I was kid banging on the corrugated steel fence of the junkyard just to drive the guard dogs nuts.

[BIG JOHN]

And on that note, have a good week everyone. BJ