asus P4S533 and Windows 95

[Eeyore]

Well I got a new MB with a P4 2.0ghz processor. I tried to install Windows 95b and got the IOS Failure error. I don't know if the AMD patch is applicable here. I'm not sure the speed can be brought down to 300 anyway.

I have installed Windows 98se. But I immediately had problems when I tried to run a RAMDRIVE with it. After a week or two of running I tried the RAMDRIVE again and it worked. With Uberto's Ramdisk I had up to a 500mb (509mb reported) and Windows booted. I have 512 installed DDR2100 RAM. When I started Windows, I forgot that I had started in DOS mode with real mode drivers for the ZIP Drive and CDROM loaded.

Through further experimentation, I set the swap file to the RAM drive. While this worked, I got a DOS compatibility mode out of it. I also tried to set my Temporary Internet Files to the Ramdisk. But it failed.

Then I noticed that the Ramdisk would not take Long Filenames, which I had never experienced before. As I experimented to try to determine what the problem might be, it then got to where if I tried to create a directory, the system would crash.

I have scanned for viruses with both Norton 2000 and AVG's 6.0. Nothing detected. My Asus manual only lists compatibility with 98 and later. Of course DOS 5.0 and 6.x run fine. Probably no hope for Windows 3.11.

I'm not a fan of Windows 98. It is getting slower and slower. I hate the idea of reinstalling all this stuff. And when I tried 98fe on my Pentium 200mmx machine, besides slowing the system down, it would crash with a RAMDRIVE over 10mb (had 90mb installed).

Any idea's? I thought a saw a problem with Pentium 3 or 4's a while back that required a patch for 95. But I have found nothing yet.
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Dennis
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[EShows]

To be completely honest, I'm not real sure that you can get win95 to work with the system you're talking about. I'm not real sure that it will work with that much RAM, let alone the processor you've got. RAM drives aren't real stable, either, so I'm not sure if you've got a whole lot of options with this system other than looking at a new OS. I'm hoping I'm wrong here, because I'd hate for you to have to spend the money, but I think that might be the case.

IMHO, Win95 isn't worth the problems you're going to have in the long run, anyway. It's less stable than 98, tends to be slower, and just in general has a whole lot more problems. If you don't like 98, it looks like your system will handle XP or 2000 without a problem...you might want to look into one of those.

Hope someone is able to give you a much more positive answer...



~evan

[Eeyore]

RAM drives aren't real stable, either

I don't know what experience you have had with them. I ran a 40mb drive constantly with 95. I use it for experiments and a place to expand ZIP files and the like. I have never had problems with it. I had 80mb installed on my Tyan and could operate Windows 95 with up to 60 of it as a Ramdisk. Incidentally, Windows only report the RAM that the Ramdisk doesn't use. I'm not sure how much Windows deals with the memory Ramdrives use. I first learned of ramdrive when a Microsoft article suggested defining Ramdrives to hide memory from Windows 95. This was a test to determine what memory addresses might be bad. With Windows 98, Microsoft began using Ramdrives on its Startup Disks.

On my backup computer, a Tyan Tomcat 2 with Cyrix PR166, I installed Windows 98fe so I could use my USB printer. The system is slow as molassis. When my Tomcat 3 lost a keyboard controller (I have it limping with a USB keyboard right now as I try to get it back up) the TC2 got the memory. It became my primary machine with 96mb ram. With 95 it works fine and I have a 40mb Ramdisk on it.

Update on the Asus machine. Today, I let it boot with the Ramdisk and it didn't crash. I saved that registry. Still have the Long filename problem. I noted another problem. the FIND utility says it searched, but finds nothing. Think I'm going to have to install again. I'm not a fan of 98. And it sure isn't winning me over.

I may try installing Windows 95 with the AMD patch. I have nothing to lose.

Thanks for you input.
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Dennis
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[Eeyore]

Update: Installed 98se on another drive, bare installation. When Ramdrive is on system went black a few seconds into startup. Turned of "Memory hole at 15-16mb" in BIOS. System booted with RAMDRIVE on and was able to create Long filenames on the RAMDRIVE. But system crashed when I tried to open a DOS window. I'll have to post a question on the 98 forum.

So it would seem that I am getting a conflict somewhere. The fact that changing the BIOS settings got it to work somewhat makes me hope that that may be a solution for getting Windows 95 to work. May take a year, but inch by inch.

One of the goals for the large RAMDRIVE is editing sound files. Each time you make a change using Creative's Wave Studio, you have to wait several minutes for the edit to rewrite. A RAMDISK might cut that to a few seconds. Especially with the faster processor speeds. Hard drive transfer rates have not improved that dramatically. But for a 5 minute song, I need 150mb or more of drive space for a single level edit. Another was to run Windows on a RAMDRIVE. I have done this with Windows 95. But since I never had enough RAM I couldn't have more than minimal Windows.
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[thelordglen]

mine was the same only mine is a 2.4ghz and i got

Windows Protection
IOS

[Eeyore]

If I can get the computer to stabalize, I plan to put 95 on a hard drive, transfer it to my Tyan 2 (my backup machine) and try the AMD patch. It supposedly corrects a timing problem. My guess (hope) is that is what keeps 95 from working on this machine. I cna't clock this machine down enough (I don't think) to try to get Windows 95 to run (if that's the problem).

This morning I fired up and nothing worked. went to Scanreg and restored from a couple of days ago. after some tweaking, everything is back. Ran Virus scan and found nothing. My experience with 98, so far, has not been pleasent.

So I'm reluctant to mess with my backup machine until I have something else working to back me up. At least it works.

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[thelordglen]

yes well putting windows 95 was a last resort because i am out of money with my new system and i didn't want to waste space on my drive so i was gonna installed windows 95 upgrade to me and then xp pro all the save space but go the shock IOS windows protection error

So that got me there i have heard about that life saving patch for amds will that work with a p4 well at the moment XP is on there currently

[Eeyore]

Well I found what I didn't want to find at M$. the article Unable to Copy Long File Name Files to Large RAMDrive states that, with Windows 98, you can't use more than a 10mb Ramdrive. That make Windows 98 useless for what I had in mind.

So back to trying to make 95 work with this new system.

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[Murf]

Well there is always W2K..........

[Eeyore]

Murf, how low to kick a man when he is down. But I'm back with a smile on my face.

thelordglen, there's hope yet. I installed the AMD patch Amdk6upd.exe and yee-haw, Windows 95 boots on my Asus.

And Murf, I set up the 400mb RAMDISK and even the Microsoft Ramdrive at 32mb (both at once, no less) and was able to copy my Program Files directory to it, long filenames and all. So it is those inferior Microsoft "improvements" and not the hardware that was the problem.

To do it, I installed the Windows 95. When it tried to "Boot Windows the first time", I got the IOS error. So I put the drive in my Tyan with the PR166 Cyrix. When Windows finally finished its updates so I got to the desktop, I installed the patch and rebooted to make sure it still worked. Then I put the drive back in my Asus computer and finished the installation. I've still got all the hardware drivers to install. But I got my Windows 95 back.

I will analize what was done and let you know after I get some sleep.

P.S. Just to flaunt it, I installed the Windows 95 on a 400mb Drivespace compressed drive which is on a 400mb Conner hard drive. When everything is working right I can copy that one file to a CDROM or whatever for a safe backup.

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[Eeyore]

I looked at what files were replaced or added by the update. This is what I found:
Directory of c:\windows\inf\qfe\*.*
amdk6_un.inf      
1054 6-02-99 12:00p Added file

Directory of c:\windows\system\*.*
advpack.dll       74960 7-15-97 6:53a Replaced OEM
w95inf16.dll       2272 7-15-97 6:53a Replaced OEM
w95inf32.dll       4608 7-15-97 6:53a Replaced OEM

Directory of c:\windows\system\vmm32\*.*
int13.vxd       9955 1-15-97 11:12a Added file
ios.vxd       68962 9-04-98 11:13a Replaced OEM
vfbackup.vxd       18197 5-25-99 11:14a Added file

Directory of c:\windows\system\iosubsys\*.*
cdfs.vxd       59153 1-15-97 11:12a Replaced OEM
disktsd.vxd       18809 1-15-97 11:12a Replaced OEM
esdi_506.pdr       24426 9-04-98 11:18a Replaced OEM
hsflop.pdr       25249 8-03-98 11:13a Replaced OEM
scsiport.pdr       23158 9-04-98 11:12a Replaced OEM

I will have to do further research to determine if there were registry entries. The Inf file only list files to remove and indicates a registry key which I will check. The only indication of a key is:
SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Setup\Updates
If not, adding these file at DOS should make the update. That would certainly be easier than clocking down to add the patch.

Getting the files may be the problem as the Amdk6upd.exe does not appear to be a ZIPPED type file from which you might extract the files you need.

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[thelordglen]

well mavellous effort that so were can i find this file if u don't mind me asking i have used windows 95 for years and i am sadly missing it (SOME PEOPLE WOULD AGREE!!)

I would like it to run on my 2.4 to save some space


Thanks

[Eeyore]

Do an internet search for Amdk6upd.exe on Google or whatever. That is the patch that I used. Microsoft supposedly has it. But with these Internet problems, I was not able to get it to download. I, fortunately has it on disk as my kid had an AMD k6 that we needed it for.

I listed the files, which you may be able to find on a Windows 98 installation, so you might be able to make the update by simply replacing those files at DOS. I have not tried that yet. Nor do I know if the Windows 98 files will work. They may be the same, maybe not.

Right now I am having CD Writer problems so I cannot go further yet. Also, as I expected, I cannot get my 40gb drive on the backup machine to work since I disconnected it while I installed the patch for the drive destined for the Asus. On step forward and two steps back.

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[Eeyore]

To test out my methods, I reinstalled Windows 95b on the Asus. This time, when after trying to start Windows "for the first time", I got the expected "IOS error". I restarted the computer in DOS mode Command Prompt. I installed the above listed files, replacing those just installed. Then I rebooted the computer and the installation continued without any further problems.

For many years those on this board have told thos with AMD K6 processors that they must clock down their processor speed so they could install the AMD update patch. Yet, it was not necessary to have Windows operating to install the necesary files.

It is still not easy as you cannot get those files from the Amdk6upd.exe file without having Windows functioning. Why Microsoft did not provide DOS installation is beyond me. It is possible that different files would be installed on another brand of motherboard. If a source for these files can be found, it will help those with both AMD and Pentium 4 processors get their Windows 95 operating.

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[Murf]

Well I was one of them that said clock down, even clocked down one of my own a couple of years ago.

Good show Dennis, saved this thread for future use.May try and find a source for these files. I believe also there is a program out there to take apart a *.exe program, may look for that also.