MCSE - Yes or No?

[C M]

Hi Guy's,

I have recently been made redundant from my position as IT Manager at my company.

I am only 19years old i started there as an apprentice at 16 and worked my way up.

Anyway to cut a long story short, i am finding it difficult to get back into the marketplace in decent positions. I am however aware that my age will not allow me to re-take such a role for many years.
I am looking for work in Networking/Infrastructure/Support.

I am contemplating doing the MCSE Course (tutor lead) to increase my chances of gaining a job, do you think this is the best way? and is the MCSE worth it?

Thanks,

CM

[slewi]

Gaining MCSE now will at least give you a chance when up against another guy with similar experience.
It is also a pre requisite for many jobs ,so if you can afford it and have the time - why not.

[TropicalBound]

I have my NT & Win2K MCSE. When I completed all the exams, I realized I was only on exam away from an MCSA, so I did that one as well. I did not take any courses. I studied from books and from software from MeasureUp.com. I learned a lot from studying for those exams and I highly reccommend it.

[10ECsoon]

There are as many opposing views on certs. as there are colors in the rainbow. Some companies use things like MCSE as a keyword when searching for qualified people to hire. Other companies won't touch one with a ten foot pole. It's different from one place to the next.
So, there are arguments for it: it shows that this person knows something about networks and computer systems. However, the majority of companies that look for MSCE's look for guys with experience, also.
There are also those against it. With the onslaught of "boot camp" and fly-by night training centers, there are a lot of "Paper MCSE's" - people who got their certs, but fall on their face when put in charge of a real network requiring real knowledge. The problem lies in the fact that a Paper MCSE is still an "E". A lot of these training centers lead people to believe that getting your certs leads to a job, and all of the people who bought it have "cheapened" the glory of having the prestigious "E".
Also remember that many companies don't use M$ products only, so being an MCSE won't be as useful with a company that uses AS400, Sun, Novell, or Linux/Unix.
It just really depends on your experience level. I wouldn't rely on it to be your saving grace, but it can make a difference how you stack up to the next guy without one.

[Rapmaster]

Now that the "dot com" craze is finished, a lot of places look for more: i.e. a 2-3 year comprehensive IT diploma from a community college. And then various certifications (Microsoft, Red Hat, Cisco, Novell, CompTIA etc) are the icing on top of that.

The prestigious "E" ?? A lot of *real* engineers (civil, mechanical, electrical) etc who spent years in university would laugh at the prestige of being an "MCSE"


By the way here is Microsoft's boring page about MCSE: http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/mcp/mcse/default.asp Tells you "what IT professionals are saying"

[10ECsoon]

OK prestigious, maybe not. But you have to admit that it did mean a lot more 2 or 3 years ago, before any joker with 6 grand could get his cert. (I won't name any institutions here)
And I did question the term "engineer" in the title, too. I know how much real brain power goes into a real engineering degree, but I've also met a few grads who could boil your blood with their stupidity.

I think most people can also recognise the difference between a certification and a college degree.

[Rapmaster]

Originally posted by 10ECsoon
OK prestigious, maybe not. But you have to admit that it did mean a lot more 2 or 3 years ago, before any joker with 6 grand could get his cert. (I won't name any institutions here)

I agree....

My cynical opinion is that MS pushes the MCSE (and MCP etc) so that the IT staff around the world will be stuck in the Windows world forever... to keep things like Linux from gaining acceptance. No IT manager whose only background is Microsoft-based stuff is going to say "lets switch to Linux so that I can lose my job!" ... A big marketing scheme.... :/

[blueindian]

I don't think an MCSE will ever hurt. However, an MCSE without any practical experience is both a waste of time and money. Nothing works in the real world like Microsoft preaches, anyways. However, I feel that solid experience combined with one or more of these trendy cetifications can set you apart from another person when it comes to getting the job you want. Understand, though, that no matter how much the company's marketing dept. tries to push it...getting some letters after your name will NOT guarantee that you will make $100,000 a year with an included country club membership. That is not reality. Most can use it as I did, to get a second or third interview and the ability to sell yourself and your ability.

[chorro]

it also depends what area of the country honors the certifications. Here in California, the IT industry hasn't recovered from the recession. Seems like most IT departments here are laying off their IT help and outsourcing instead. You don't see that many jobs in the newspaper or online and at most of the job fairs.

Like what some people posted earlier, it might be to your advantage to get a certification in other areas like Linux or the popular Cisco. There is also supposed to be a newer certification in information security: SCP, security certified professional. I do believe the MCSE is overrated also since they did away with their number/bar graph grading system. Now you can't tell how much more study you'll need when you think you just barely passed or failed.

What really counts is experience more than what's on paper.

[littleccguy]

If you want to earn Certs and not pay alot there are great resources out there that can save you money. I too am taking the tests but taking by time as to gain experiance. I have save Big $ by using the videos at CBTNuggets.com and Transendor practice tests. No boot camps for me.

Good Luck!

[PoisonAnGeL]

Hi CM,
What all these people have been saying about the MCSE is true. Even though I don't want to hear the bad side of the MCSE, you really should take those into consideration.
I was made redundant too from my job and I decided to go and get my MCSE at a training centre (Dimension Data).
I am one exam away which I will be attending soon. I felt that it has given me a huge amount of knowledge into the Microsoft products, enough knowledge so that I can go out and setup a huge organisation without any major hassels. When I was at work, I thought I knew alot about networks and how they operated but now I realise how much I didn't know. I know why certain settings should be configured, why certain products should be implemented. It has made me a more secure,confident, safe IT Administrator. I recommend doing it. Its a start and once you have finished you can go onto other products and systems.
I do warn you that I am having troubles finding a job. But then again, would I have more troubles if I didn't have a qualification at all????
I hope this information has helped you with your decision.
After my MCSE, I will concentrate on other products/ software that I have wanted to learn -eg Visual Basic.
I think you should go for it, seens that your young, assuming you have no financial issues and you have the time to sit down and do it (Family issues).
Let me know what decision you make
Cheers
Ian

[C M]

Thats Great Guy's thanks, you've certainly given me a lot to think about

Recently i have been considering doing a N+ Course or doing "Implementing a Microsoft Windows 2000 Infrastrucutre" to gain MCP Status, this way i gain a cheaper qualification and can sit the full MCSE Course when i am Financialy stable.

Currently i am trying to Re-Vamp my C.V. as i know this is the most critical part of any Job Application, any ideas about C.V.'s as i am almost certain it's not as good as it could be.

Are there any-places that review C.V.'s like recruitment agencies?

I am really keen to get back into the I.T. Industry i loved the challenges i faced eveyday.

Thanks for all your help guy's

CM.

[Newt]

MCP and then a secondary or two might be a better bet while you are wide open about a job. Although if you have the time and can easily work on it, I don't imagine that MCSE would hurt. Might not always help but certainly shouldn't be a bad thing

Cisco is good. And some cert to indicate you know a bit about Unix/Linux couldn't hurt.

It was unfortunate that Microsoft decided sometime around NT4 or NT4->2K that there was so much gain for them with certs that they went the way Novell had earlier with their Paper CNEs.

[flachebaq]

I got my MCSE after I already had about three years of experience running Windows NT/2000 Servers and managing clients. I was also nearing completion of my Bachelor's of Information Technology when I got the MCSE. The whole purpose of the MCSE was just a little extra gravy to put on my resume. I can honestly say from personal experience that the information that you need to know to get an MCSE doesn't even scratch the surface of what you need to know to successfully implement any major type of network with Microsoft products.

Microsoft doesn't even begin to touch the back side of what you need to know in networking hardware for medium to large scale networks. Look at half of their networking questions: they have a NT/2K server serving as a router! Why spend ungodly amounts of money on a server, OS, and CALs when you can spend a few thousand on a piece of hardware?

MS also doesn't even start to touch basic troubleshooting. User A can't get on the network from his office. Let's immediately assume that the problem is something to do with software configuration because we all know that a connection problem has to be some incorrect setting somewhere. What happened to checking to make sure the patch cord was plugged into the PC and the wall first? Do you know how many times I've saved a service call by asking that???

An MCSE is a piece of paper that says you passed seven tests from Microsoft... nothing more in my mind... and I hold an MCSE. I know what is on those tests and I do this stuff every day on just about any type of network you can imagine (I work for a consulting company). Use the credential for everything that you can if it will help you out. But don't just give a job to someone or hire them as a consultant/employee without a resume (that you they can backup) and/or references.