System image questions

[NickC]

I'm exploring the system image backup feature of Win 7. Never messed with any kind of image backup before, so excuse the newbie questions!

1. the amount of space it claims to need to create a system image is quite large. I think it's actually a bit larger than the occupied size of C: - is that normal? I read that Win 7 doesn't compress much - does that make for a more robust backup or is it just gonna take more space with no benefit?

2. I want to make this external hard drive bootable - i.e., in the future if I ever have to restore the image, I'd rather reimage directly instead of first reinstalling the base Win 7 and then going to recovery. Is that possible and if so, do I have to do anything specific to the drive and/or system image settings?

3. About how long does it take for say 100 Gb?

[SuperSparks]

1) I've found that it generally takes a little less than the used space of the C: drive. You are correct in that it doesn't compress much. I suspect that it does not do so in order to make the VHD easily mountable, though I don't know the exact reason. Nonetheless, disk space is cheap nowadays, so there isn't an overwhelming need for compression any longer.

2) Do not mess with the image in any way, there is no need to make it bootable, you can access the recovery options from your bootable Win7 disc. And, as a belt and braces measure, take the option to make a recovery disc which Image Backup will offer at the end. That is also bootable, and will give the recovery options too

3) 100GB would probably take the best part of an hour. My current installation is 35GB, and I made an image yesterday that took around 10 or 15 minutes to make. It can take a lot longer on USB external drive though.

[NickC]

Thank you!

1) I know Acer has its own backup software that came with the machine - not sure if it will do a better job of compressing the image.

2) Can you clarify a bit more? I didn't mean messing with the image. Rather, I was thinking this way: the machine of interest is the Acer in my sig. Since I didn't build this time, I don't have a dedicated Win 7 disc. I have however created recovery DVDs before doing anything, and of course the machine comes with a recovery partition.

So if I want to reimage at some point, it would be a 2 step process, right? First use the recovery partition (or the recovery DVDs) to bring the machine to the specs when I bought it. Then use my system image backed up external HD to bring it back to the latest state - with all my programs, files, and settings.

I was hoping to do this in 1 step by recovering directly from the external HD, in case I have trouble going through Windows (or for example if I buy a new internal HD).

[SuperSparks]

1) Although you my save some disk pace with a more compressed image using Acer, the Windows Image is extremely versatile, in that you can mount the image as a drive volume and extract any individual files using Explorer. It's darn useful, I did it myself just the other day when I forgot to back something up before a reinstall

2) If you don't have an actual Windows disc, then it is essential that you make a System Repair Disc. The backup utility will ask if you want to make one anyway, after it has completed. Or you can make one any time you want in the left-hand pane of Backup & Restore. That disc is bootable, and offers exactly the same recovery options as a proper Windows 7 DVD.

You do not need to use the Acer recovery partition at all. Restoring from the Windows Image Backup will restore everything, the OS, and all your apps and settings. It is a bit-for-bit disk image, just like Ghost or True Image.

[NickC]

1) Good to know - I'll use the Windows Image instead!

2) I don't need to create a Repair Disc each time I do a full system image backup, right? I'm guessing just one time is enough.

Yes, I knew the Windows Image Backup would capture everything but I wasn't sure how to set it up for restore if I didn't have access to Windows or if I had a new hard drive in there. So it sounds like the procedure would be to boot the Repair Disc and then use that to access the Image Backup on external hard drive. Sounds like a plan!

[SuperSparks]

Just one Repair Disc is all you need, though I made two, just in case.

[NickC]

Excellent - I will do that.

Another question - might be silly - you can still use the extra space on the hard drive for regular backups of the /users folder, right? Or does that mess up the system image process? I was hoping to put the system image file(s) in their own folder.

[SuperSparks]

The Windows Image files are stored completely independently of the back up files. And you can make images and back up files completely independently too, or if you prefer, file backup has the option to make a Windows image at the same time. Personally, I just get Windows how I like it then make the system image, there doesn't seem a lot of point in constantly remaking new images on the file backup schedule.

Be very careful about storing the files in other folders that you create. Although the image or backup files won't be harmed, the Recovery options won't be able to see the files if they are in a folder. Only do that if you are able to access the drive on another machine so that you can put the files back before running recovery.

[Welshjim]

What is Windows Image if it is not Backup?

[NickC]

Supersparks: thanks, great info! Do you ever find the need to exclude certain folders when doing the System Image? e.g., sometimes I will rip my DVD movies to the hard drive to watch on the PC. In that case, I really don't need that folder with the movie files included in the System Image. No hard I suppose, but if it's easy enough I'd just like to exclude those large files. I did some reading and it seems the default Windows Image Backup doesn't allow you to do that - you have to use a 3rd party software. But I wasn't 100% sure.

Welshjim: Sorry, should have clarified. By "backup" along with the Windows image, I meant just a regular copy of the \users\ folder, which is what I have been doing prior to Windows 7. (well, the My Documents folder in XP and prior). Maybe you're right, that with a system image this is redundant. But I like having my personal documents, music, pictures, etc., copied separately. To me, that makes it easier to access if I need to outside of the Windows environment. e.g., if I want to copy some of those files to a different machine, maybe running Linux, etc.

[SuperSparks]

Supersparks: thanks, great info! Do you ever find the need to exclude certain folders when doing the System Image? e.g., sometimes I will rip my DVD movies to the hard drive to watch on the PC. In that case, I really don't need that folder with the movie files included in the System Image. No hard I suppose, but if it's easy enough I'd just like to exclude those large files. I did some reading and it seems the default Windows Image Backup doesn't allow you to do that - you have to use a 3rd party software. But I wasn't 100% sure.

In my case I've never had the need to do that, for the simple reason that I keep virtually all my data on physically separate drives. I found years ago That it's better to keep the OS and data separate as far as possible. This way, it not only keeps the backup sizes reasonable, but I also don't have to worry too much if I turn on the PC and find Windows hosed, I can restore or reinstall without having to worry about my files

I've also developed a versatile system where every one of my builds now has at least two drive caddies installed, with one always being spare. That means that I can take the OS drive out easily and work on it in another PC if necessary. As well as allowing me to slap a different drive in the bay and install a different OS. I can't commend caddies highly enough, especially as they don't cost much.

[NickC]

That sounds like a well-thought-out setup!

[Welshjim]

Ah, System Image, not Windows Image. I thought there was a new program that had eluded me.
P.S. I do not think you can choose what to backup when you create a System Image. It is all or nothing. But you can choose when you use Backup. From Windows Help and Support
"A system image is an exact copy of a drive. By default, a system image includes the drives required for Windows to run. It also includes Windows and your system settings, programs, and files. You can use a system image to restore the contents of your computer if your hard disk or computer ever stops working. When you restore your computer from a system image, it's a complete restoration—you can't choose individual items to restore, and all of your current programs, system settings, and files are replaced with the contents of the system image. "