[RESOLVED] New build freezes at start-up...

[bovinda]

Overview of the problem
New budget build keeps freezing on start-up, and occasionally restarting, after it's been left off for awhile. Once it gets going, it's fine!


Full description of the problem and symptoms
New budget build with a friend keeps freezing on start-up since the first POST. Here's exactly what happens after it's been off for awhile: the first time it's turned on, it will freeze on the POST screen, usually where it says things like "Detecting IDE drive..." and hang indefinitely. Really tiny, little red dots may flicker now and then across the screen, but you have to look close to notice them.

So I hit the reset button. It starts again, maybe gets a little farther, then freezes (keyboard won't restart it either; only reset button).

So I reset again...and it gets a little farther before freezing, etc. After a number of times doing this (some of which it will restart suddenly on its own, maybe one out of every 4 or 5 tries in the beginning) it will get to the MS loading screen. It will usually freeze once or twice more, and then the next reset will get it to go fine. As long as it's left on, it seems great.


Did it work normally at one time, or has the problem always existed?
It's worked like this from the beginning, as far as I can tell...the first POST, it froze briefly, then reset it once or twice and got it going. Vista loaded fine.

It is consistent and repeatable. It seems the longer it's been off, the more restarts it may take (the longest it's been off has been for about a day and half, and it took about 8-10 restarts total to get it going--that was today).

I already tried these steps:
I've tried Memtest86+ for about 16 hours straight, no errors.
I'm starting it up on Prime95 right now.

My software:
1. Vista 64 Home Premium with SP1, OEM
2. No AV or IS installed yet; only chipset, video, and LAN drivers installed so far

My hardware
1. Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G MicroATX mobo
2. AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ Windsor 3.0 GHz CPU (not overclocked)
3. Using integrated audio and video
4. G.Skill 4 GB (2x2) DDR2 800 RAM, voltage is on auto (BIOS shows it as around 1.93 or so, I believe; couldn't find any place to set timings in the BIOS options, so I guess those are on auto too)
5. Rosewill case and included 350W PSU
6. LiteOn DVD Burner
7. Seagate 500 GB SATA drive
8. One 80 mm case fan

Other information that might be relevant
The only other thing I've done was set the HD to AHCI at start-up as per the mobo's suggestions on the initial set-up before installing windows. I have no idea what could be causing this. I thought...bad RAM? But Memtest86+ was fine. Bad PSU? But once it gets going it's great (just in case, running Prime95 right now).

Any help is greatly, greatly appreciated! Thanks guys...

[dneilson]

That Power Supply seems to be on the small side. Do you have a 450W or higher you could try?

[bovinda]

You know, I was wondering about that as well, but from everything I've read in the past it seems that a 350W PSU should be able to cut it. Granted, I don't know the quality of this PSU, though.

The other thing I wondered about was--if the PSU wasn't reliable, it seems like that wouldn't be something that would improve with being on, would it? For example, I've been running Prime95 on it for like 3 hours now and it's still going fine...

Finally, unfortunately, I don't have a spare PSU around just to see (which I would like to do!). Thus, I want to rule out everything else I can, first, before I look to that as the most likely culprit. Any other ideas, or do you think that the PSU would be the most likely? Anything else I can try?

[dneilson]

Well, if the Power Supply is right on the edge of being adequate you could remove one stick of RAM and disconnect the DVD burner which would lighten the load a bit and see if you notice any difference. Also, you really should have two case fans--one down low in the front pulling air in and one on the back higher up exhausting the hot air.

[bovinda]

Hm, that's a good thought. I suppose (since it seems to be having problems freezing before Windows even starts loading) I could disconnect the HD as well. I will try that (taking out a RAM stick, disconnecting DVD and HD) after it's run Prime95 for a few more hours.

Edit: Oh, and I'll look into getting another case fan as well!

[bovinda]

So little update: ran Prime95 for all day without any errors or problems. Makes me think PSU and CPU are not the culprit?

Turned computer off for 30 sec or so after having it on all day, and it starts up fine. I'm guessing it will have problems again tomorrow morning after having been off for awhile. What component would be affected by having been off and would do better after having warmed up?

Nevertheless, will try dneilson's suggestions tomorrow and see if it makes a difference. Anyone else have any ideas in the meantime?

[Train]

yes, dneilson's suggestion on the ps being very marginal is spot on in my book.
A cold , temperature wise, start up requires the most amps.

[bovinda]

EDIT: Wait, hold on, I'm not that bright and didn't reset some RAM correctly...will be right back...

[bovinda]

Well that was a little embarressing. Anyway...it now appears to be starting fine with one of the RAM sticks taken out, and the HD and DVD plugged in.

I tried subtracting everything at first, and found it started up fine, cold, this morning with just one stick of RAM, which made me think it was the PSU like dneilson suggested. So just to make sure it wasn't the RAM, I switched the sticks, and lo-and-behold, it would start freezing again at the POST screen. Switched it back, and it starts up fine. My money is now on the RAM stick, though I still think it's a shoddy PSU.

I'm going to let it get cold again and try to restart it later today. If it's fine then, I'll assume the RAM was indeed the problem and consider this resolved, and will post so. If not, I'll have some more questions.


Has anyone ever heard of bad or buggy RAM getting past 16 hours of Memtest86+? Or, for that matter, working better once it was "warmed up?" Is that unusual? Is there something else I might be missing?

[Train]

Well it can be caused by the sticks of ram not being close enough in there specs or a damaged connection..
Believe me, that can cause all kinds of hair pulling to be done!

[bovinda]

Hi Train, can I ask you to clarify what you mean by not being close enough in their specs? I'm going to see about RMA'ing the RAM if it's the problem, and if I should look into getting a different pair, then I will.

Here's what I'm wondering. I watched my friend build this computer (I was overseeing him) and he touched the gold connectors on one of the RAM sticks, but I don't remember which one it was. Do you think that could cause this kind of behavior, if that was the problem? And if it was, then I would feel guilty about RMA'ing it, since we would be at fault.

[Train]

On the ram specs, most makers have a list ot specs, or tolerances, that they must meet when makeing them. Now should one stick not be with the same specs as the other one, yes, specs can are changed quite often sometimes even with in a maker building of them, they can be mismatched.

We run into that back with the PC133 ram not working in some PC100 mobos.


Now if when he touched the contacts and static hit the chips, yes that stick could be fried.
But , can you tell if that is the bad stick. It well could be the other one. So return the bad stick .

[bovinda]

Hey Train, no, I can't tell which one he touched. I know we were taking good static precautions, so hopefully it wasn't that. In any event, I started the computer up with the good stick in when it had been cold for several hours and it started up fine, so it must've been the RAM.

Thank you Train, and dneilson, for all the help! It's a relief to know what the problem was. I requested an RMA for the RAM, and hopefully the new set will work fine.

I still may look into a better PSU. And certainly another case fan!

[Train]

Tou are Welcome.
Just got new case fans for my antique. Much nicer temps.