part one of page TWO
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part one of page two

DrMDJ
posted 07-05-2001 06:05 PM
Personally, I always view speed in a computer in terms of "throughput". And many things effect throughput (hardware and software and configuration of these).
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kallikru
posted 07-06-2001 05:58 AM
When I bought my first PC (in '94 - 486DX2 VLB)) I looked at three different lines of machines built locally by a small shop. I asked the salesman what was the difference between the 3 lines - apart from the price?
I think his answer pretty much gives an answer to your lastest question, goose:
"The difference is the technology. The most expensive line contains all the newest tech. we can get hold of, and each component is tuned to each other to optimize performance. The other lines contain older tech. components that is not entirely tuned to each other."
In reality we of course have to make compromises, since the economic ressorces are rarely unlimited.
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Karl, Denmark
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"..and may The Force be with you too..."
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greengoose1
posted 07-06-2001 06:56 AM
Good Morning All,
Kallikru, I asked my last question from the standpoint of someone not knowing much and was trying to provide for the reader a point to start from in exactly what determines the "speed" of a computer. A person hears things like: "This is the computer to get as it is the fastest one right now" or "everyones buying this right now".
These are salesmen statements and can cost a person alot of extra money. I remember when the Queen of Hearts built her computer on this forum that when it came time for her to start buying she blew the salesmen right out of the water because they could not answer her questions. She had become knowledgeable from the questions she had asked on this forum and the answers she had gotten from Bistro, Train, Mosaic, oh heck I can't remember all of the people who helped. As a result she has an outstanding computer from what I understand.
The information that everyone has been contributing here is outstanding and a person would pay a good sum of money at a book store for what they get here. The only thing we as contributors need to keep in mind is some that are reading are just starting out and we need to relate to their knowledge position also.
Here is something I found at www.motherboard.com that is interesting.
"Those of you who know personal computers know that the most important major component in the PC is the motherboard. Not the hard disk, not the video card & the most important single component on the motherboard? The CPU, right? Wrong. It's the lowly, hard-working, group of chips known as the "chipset." A chipset for me defines the entire system, because every major component in the system relies on the capabilities of the chipset.
I must recant slightly on the importance of the chipset. Since I am a hardware man, I think in terms of components and circuits. Software developers may be more inclined to think in terms of the major software components, which are the BIOS and the CPU, which are also major hardware components. Saying this, I still believe in the fact that you can tell a lot more about a computer if you know its chipset than from knowing its BIOS or CPU type, since the chipset dictates both of them and you cannot ever upgrade your chipset.
It should also be noted that a chipset is designed around the specifications of the CPU for which it is to be used. In this respect, the CPU must be designed before the chipset can be, obviating the need for technical information transfer between chipset manufacturers and CPU manufacturers. (I made up that word so I can use it again later.) There also needs to be a good working relationship between chipset makers, memory manufacturers, and BIOS code writers. And lastly, the motherboard manufacturers need to be on good terms with chipset manufacturers, BIOS companies, and CPU makers to make a good motherboard and to get it to market as soon as possible."
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jtdoom
posted 07-06-2001 08:08 AM
you's talking about Me?
Me? Checking numbers?
Naaah...
you missed me?

Well, something weird was going on.
a router in New York is Down and I cannot get to VDr
Have had to use a WEBanonymiser to get here...
It looked as if VDr dropped off the Earth, ever since yesterday.
and it's my startup page...
I got withdrawal symptoms
anyway.
when I got those SCSI devices, I knew they were supposed to have better data handling than IDE, and this was the era when more coasters were made than anything else.
The AHA2940AU and harddrive were bought a few months later.
Friend of mine wanted rid if this card, as he wanted to upgrade and got himself a new card He wanted somthing that was called adaptec SUMPING super really super wide wide sumping
The card that originally came with my first burner was "sumping 15xx" and I have it sumplace. That burner and scanner were sold in the "clearance sale" period, and was shop DEMO kit, iow, I got high end at low end prices.
Actually, While I am writing this, I am conducting a TEST.
I just started
xcopy32 G:\*.* D:\test008\ /i /k /y /h /e /c
xcopy32 H:\*.* D:\test009\ /i /k /y /h /e /c
where D: is that aging SCSI hard drive, G: is ultraplex40 and H: is plexwriter
These are three SCSI devices, and it looks like its happening
But It doesn tell me if read/writes are simultime...
I see both drive LEDS blink for CD read and I see both dosboxes write to disk
Still don't PROVE a thing.
Question, what's the scoop on simultime read/write on a SCSI channel?
I only had this from "hearsay", and cannot remember ever having read evidence on simultime transactions. But I feel it is a lot better at it than the old controllers from back when I bought this card could handle.
still, with current technology, and burnproof, the average Joe Consumer has no need to get SCSI.
I can also firsthand confirm something DrMDJ told us.
An ATAPI zipdrive does not really slow down the hardrive on that channel.
It will show when you do a copy from the zipdisk to the drive on same channel, tho.
Ditto with ATAPI CDROM readers.
This is why it is often recommended to get a burner and reader on separate channels.
(and you can have more than two channels onboard, or add channels by adding a controller.)
In the the explanation DrMDJ gave he mentioned and explained contention.
That's what this was all about...
Get a motherboard with good features, and good test reviews, which points to a good chipset, and you wont suffer much from malcontention (sic).
when you read comparative reviews, DO look for STABILITY problems the testers encountered.
It only works when it ain't down...
=
I also have a personal rant about reviews and where to find them...
I actually meant MAGAZINES.
For the Flemish, most publications in Dutch have relatively few comparative reviews on the likes of Gateway, Compaq, HP, Dell, Packard Bell (w/i still around in our parts)
Now, when Thatcher signed the fiftythird province contract with Carter, I knew the UK was big
So, for the European Theatre (bizz is war), I like to get the UK publications of PC PRO and PCPLUS magazine, and CT aka Computer Technics (based on a German "MUST have read" zine)
Ziff Davis' PCPRO and PCPLUS have comparative reviews on systems in each publication, and often have a "roundup" comparative review on monitors, on hard drives, and motherboards, soundcards, Videocards. (you name it, they reviewed it)
Why not get a printed publication?
It's easier on the eyes, its better organised, you can hilite stuff, mark it as unsuitable, mark as a candidate, get a few things on an A-list, and then check for availability and pricechanges.
Ziff Davis has a good line of publications if you ask me.
you also find them on-line
So yes, I also use the web to get more data.
The older reviews are found, new reviews are found.
you can check if the manufactor has a forum
You can use a good search engine to ferret out data on the product you wanna buy.
iow, get the FAQs and FACTS
you will find technical specification sheets and manuals.
you can look at them BEFORE you buy, isn't that neat?
(a magazine cannot do that for you)
A magazine will also have a TON of advertisers and their contact information.
Still, where I live, I am usually better off with a retailer. (price and after sales service.)
We's building our own.
But let us not forget good offers with good software bundles.
"Good" as in still usable on other kit when the PC dies and/or has to be replaced.
its your money, you choose.
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added a section I pulled where I wanted us "on track", cuz it was sorta off track.
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it's Yo Diddley's fault...
Kind regards, Jaak

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part one of page two