what have we here?

[jholloway]

It isn't so much privacy and security I'm worried about, I get rid of anything that is so private I don't want anyone else to see it. It's that all these 'things' we're talking about take up a lot of room over time. I found stuff that's been on this machine since I first fired it up, and first went on line, well over two years ago. Recent, for instance (the hidden one), had files listed that were long gone. I don't remember how many kb (or mb) it was but a lot. And when one only has 6 gb it helps to clear out anything not needed. It also cuts the defrag time, &c. The various 'recent', index, log, txt, gif, urls, &c add up over time, and over not so much time. My opinion is if you don't need it get rid of it.

[JoJo Gunn]

Personally I'm a throwback, Casey820. I don't believe in plastic. And no warranty cards that asks me if I like magazines and how much I make a year. I was able to afford their product, and that's all they need to know. I don't fill out any of those "Win a Free Vacation" things you see all over the place, either.

The reason we don't have as much privacy nowadays is because we don't demand it. Those who remain silent get everything they "ask" for.

As far as the list of viewed sites, and the use of the Spider program, etc- I'm pretty new to home computing, although I've used various ones at work. Now I have one in my home, and slowly but surely I'm in awe and disgust at the tactics the slimebags out there use. It took me a little while to figure out what BackWeb was, or why HP so conveniently put Wild Tangent games on this thing, and how and why Works kept phoning home after I supposedly turned off updating altogether. Could it be because of Money? Nobody's gonna convince me that it was an "oversight" that a Microsoft program with the ability to update wasn't connected to the master switch, so to speak. Just what is so important that a word processor/spreadsheet has to phone home for? And there's no explanation of just what was updated. You'll see nothing but a very small box flash saying "Updating Works", and you'd better look fast too. How do I know that somehow that list of visited sites, the one Spider goes after, isn't transferred to MS? If you'll open up that .dat file you'll notice it's nothing basically but text, and a text file can be quickly uploaded from the slowest of dialups. I'll never understand why that list of months old sites HAS to be protected, and a program like Spider has to be created to get rid of it, unless it's important to someone outside of my machine.

Consider Bonzi Buddy, and Comet Cursor, and Gator, etc, that pretends to be something, so the uninitiated will download it. My friend's kid grabbed Bonzi Buddy off a gaming site last month. The kid didn't know any better, but now some spy is able to keep up with every member of the family who uses the computer. Certainly that's not ethical, so why after all these years are those places still around?

For those of us who care about all this stuff, it's a war over principles. Who we're up against is nothing more than intruders in our homes. What else can you call them? They don't share any of the money they make off of us.


Man oh man am I grateful for all the smart ones around here who know of and keep us posted on all the slimy goings on.


And Casey, forgive me if I got rough. The row of "angry faces" weren't directed at you personally. It's the garbage in total I'm so hot about. I hope that the questions you ask are out of ignorance about the system(as I still have about a lot of things), and not because you're too accepting.

***********************


And spike6, you're right. If someone really wants to find something out, they can. The FBI or IRS can even read an HD that's been wiped several times, by reading residual magnetic traces, or putting the HD platters under an electron microscope or whatever. Of course that means someone has to physically take apart your machine. Hopefully we can at least hinder the thugs who try to enter through the modem.



....and thanks for the kind words, Casey.


EDIT- Casey? I meant Davey. Dang, "oldstimers" disease must be setting in.

[^dAvEy^]

Originally posted by spike6
Regarding wiping sensitive material off your hard drive, I seem to remember reading that this action would be in vain as deleted information can still be recovered even if the drive has been reformatted.Dave

please excuse my sarcasm being used to make this point:
You mean why bother? So there's no reason to implement futile illusionary preventative measures becasue anyone and everyone looking to access and/or malign all content on, and stable functioning of the computer knows how to bypass all means to maximize security? Such means can't even make it more difficult for them? Man, that's discouraging and depressing! I give up! I feel like an idiot for wasting my time.

[JoJo Gunn]

No offense, Davey, but I think he just isn't sure about how they can read things supposedly erased. I don't imagine he looks at any of us as if we're going through exercises in futility, especially since he's been hit by viruses. Likely he sees quite the opposite, since being slammed.

And spike6, I can only guess that the trojan was missed until it was "awakened" and went into action? That's the nature of a trojan. And not that it might be your case, but sometimes we might be the ones to catch something new, and have to wait for an AV update. No AV program is perfect. A hacker gets his "ego", such as it is, stroked by getting past Norton or McAfee, etc.

[^dAvEy^]

Thanks JoJo Gunn - point well taken.
To be clear, my intention was not a slamming as much as I have newbie lurkers in mind...
There's lots to know about [ln]security issues amd re newbies, and I wouldn't want any of'm to get disouraged by thinking it's not worth learning becasue it won't help anyhow.
All thast being said, exams do seem to be kinda taking their toll over here - I'll work at loosening the strings.

Oh, but I just have to hilite a few quotes, JoJo Gunn
Nobody's gonna convince me that it was an "oversight" that a Microsoft program with the ability to update wasn't connected to the master switch, so to speak. ...

Just what is so important that a word processor/spreadsheet has to phone home for? And there's no explanation of just what was updated.

The reason we don't have as much privacy nowadays is because we don't demand it. Those who remain silent get everything they "ask" for.
...
I'll never understand why that list of months old sites HAS to be protected, and a program like Spider has to be created to get rid of it, unless it's important to someone outside of my machine.
...
Certainly that's not ethical, so why after all these years are those places still around?
...
For those of us who care about all this stuff, it's a war over principles. Who we're up against is nothing more than intruders in our homes. What else can you call them? They don't share any of the money they make off of us.
...
Of course that means someone has to physically take apart your machine. Hopefully we can at least hinder the thugs who try to enter through the modem.

[JoJo Gunn]

DANG! Old JoJo rates a few quotes, how about that?

As far as the strings being tight, yep. I admit to it myself lately, and it's been going around. Must be something in the water.

Concerning getting discouraged, I hope they don't get that way either. But what spooks me most of all is how they're being born in a world of apathy, and they'll grow to accept anything, and like it. So many people don't realize the absolute earth shaking power they have just by saying no, and keeping their wallet in their pocket.

[spike6]

Originally posted by ^dAvEy^
please excuse my sarcasm being used to make this point:
You mean why bother? So there's no reason to implement futile illusionary preventative measures becasue anyone and everyone looking to access and/or malign all content on, and stable functioning of the computer knows how to bypass all means to maximize security? Such means can't even make it more difficult for them? Man, that's discouraging and depressing! I give up! I feel like an idiot for wasting my time.

It's not the case of 'not bothering', its more to do with what Jojo has said on my behalf. Like most I do like to protect my privacy and have Norton Security and NAV installed, with regular updates. Despite this, I had an unwelcomed / unfriendly resident on my PC despite implementing these safeguards. I was just making the point that we should not become complacent (as I had) and be fool into thinking that all is well when it clearly is not.

Regarding the virus that I had, It's only an assumption on my behalf that it was responsible for sending out emails, after all, it could be something else on my machine that I am unaware of, how can we really be sure??

Dave