Is Vista partitioning different?

[Dr. Bob]

Recently I have taken Vista for a little test drive to get a first impression. I used an older 45 GB drive for this. I removed all partitioning and repartitioned it during the Vista installation. After having explored it for a couple of hours I now wanted to do something different with the drive so I made a backup of the installation and wanted to remove it but when I ran Partition Magic 8 while it was now connected to the secondary IDE port while booting from another drive attached to the primary IDE port, it reported several problems with the partition table on this drive that it offered to repair. I was surprised but let it do so since I only wanted to remove all partitions again anyway. After having made the alterations to the partition table PM8 still reported the drive as BAD and I couldn't do anything with it in PM. I have now used the Drive Fitness Test to erase the drive and undoubtedly I will now be able to use it again. While writing this it just finished with the 'Green Screen' telling me all is OK with the drive.

Does anyone know whether Vista does some new strange and unspeakable things to a drive that PM8 is unable to recognise and deal with? I haven't seen anything like this before.

I also wonder whether the Vista installation will work again if and when I restore it again without running any boot repair actions first.

WinXP did want to do a reboot after having recognised the 'new' drive with the Vista installation but that's common behaviour when a previously unknown drive is seen AFAIK. I let it do the reboot.

Any ideas?

[2damncommon]

Perhaps you are not aware that it is common for Microsoft to "add features" to "new versions" to "enhance user experience". In other words the newer NTFS may not be supported.
Never assume an OS newer than your partition tool is supported.
Realisitcally any format newer than a partition manager could show up with errors.
Checking both the physical drive and consulting FAQs for the partition manager are called for in lieu of better info.

[SuperSparks]

I've never known any version of PM to work properly with a newer version of Windows, you always have to buy a new version of PM. Except that in this case you don't need to because Disk Management can now ressize partitions, etc., so there is little need for 3rd party tools. But if you do need a 3rd party partition manager, then Acronis Disk Director is far better than PM in any case.

Acronis True Image Home

[Dr. Bob]

I never assume anything and that PM8 had some issues with Vista had already become clear by my experiences. My question is WHAT is so different that PM8 cannot deal with it anymore? According to Wikipedia's article on NTFS XP and Vista both use NTFS 3.1 so if that's correct nothing new there. The error was about the partition table so I would like to know more about that. Since I usually have multiboot systems with more than one OS on it I would like to know how installing Vista on a system might affect the other operating systems by Vista possibly messing about with the partition table. I'd like to know these things in advance to prevent any 'Oops!' moments if Í can help it.

But in the mean time I have realised that maybe Wikipedia had an article on Partition Magic too and indeed it does. It says there:

PartitionMagic is compatible with Windows NT, 98, ME, 2000, and XP desktop editions.
It fails to run under Windows Vista. When launched, with a Windows Vista partition present, even from another version of Windows, Partition Magic displays the following error: "Init failed: Error 117. Partition's drive letter cannot be identified."

They probably refer to a situation with the other OS running from the same drive with the Vista partition. In my situation the Vista partition was on another physical drive which may have caused the different error about the partition table,

Interesting.

I cannot help but wonder whether it might have anything to do with the whole DRM 'thing' that is so deeply embedded throughout the whole of Vista. I became aware of this when I read this article on this subject. And I did take the trouble to read the entire article. As the writer of the article did take the trouble to read all official Microsoft technical documentation about these aspects of Vista and based his article on what he had read in those documents.

[LindaHewitt]

Many vendors design their software, so that it will only run with current OSes and some prior OSes. Symantec wants you to buy the latest version of Partition Magic, which presumably works with Vista.

Backup and partitioning products are inexpensive, which is part of the reason that vendors design their software, so that customers have to buy the latest version in order for it to work with the latest Windows OS.

Here is a URL, where you can purchase either of these Acronis products at a discount. I know the individual that owns this business and he always ships the latest version or build of the product. I always want to get the latest version and build of any product that I purchase on the internet. This is where I purchase my latest versions of Acronis software. BTW, I do NOT have any business relationship with this vendor.

http://www.ugr.com/

Personally, I do not use or recommend any Symantec product because of the poor quality of their products, no development standards, and very poor customer - technical support.

I use Acronis True Image for backups and Acronis DiskDirector. I agree with the earlier recommendation for Disk Director.

Bottom-line:

1. In order to re-partition your 45 GB hard drive, you will need to purchase a partitioning product such as Disk Director, version 10, which is designed to work with Vista.

2. There is no way that you can recover your prior Vista installation, so you will need to re-install.

Cheers,

Linda

[Dr. Bob]

My concern is NOT about whether or not PM8 is able to work with Vista. As I wrote I backed up the Vista test installation for IF and when I might want to use it again. I am not worried about that backup at all (although my guess is that I WILL get it to work again IF I'd want to) and the 45 GB drive is working perfectly normal already the way I want again with no traces of Vista left.

I want to know precisely WHAT it is that is so different about Vista's way of working with hard disks? The PM8 error merely made me aware of this difference and is in no other way important. One of the reasons I'd like to know more about this is as I said before:

Since I usually have multiboot systems with more than one OS on it I would like to know how installing Vista on a system might affect the other operating systems by Vista possibly messing about with the partition table. I'd like to know these things in advance to prevent any 'Oops!' moments if Í can help it.

I like to 'be prepared' and know what can happen in advance. For this I need knowledge. If anyone has this knowledge please share it with me and everyone else who visits this forum.

[Steve R Jones]

Vista has an entirely new boot manager that might have contribited to the situation...

Windows Vista introduces a new boot loader architecture; a new firmware-independent boot configuration and storage system called Boot Configuration Data (BCD); and a new boot option editing tool, BCDEdit (BCDEdit.exe). These components are designed to load Windows more quickly and more securely.

The traditional Windows NT boot loader, Ntldr, is replaced by Windows Boot Manager (Bootmgr.exe) and a set of system-specific boot loaders. In the new configuration, Windows Boot Manager is generic and unaware of the specific requirements for each operating system, and each system-specific boot loader is optimized for the system that it loads.

Where is the boot.ini?
On BIOS-based computers that are running only Windows Vista, the Boot.ini text file is gone (not hidden) and any remnants of it on interim beta test builds are ignored. On computers with both earlier versions of Windows and with Windows Vista, the Boot.ini file remains to support the older versions but it does not affect booting in Windows Vista.

On EFI-based computers that are running Windows Vista, boot options are still stored in NVRAM. However, in Windows Vista you use BCDEdit to edit boot options on an EFI-based computer just as you would on a BIOS-based computer, instead of accessing NVRAM directly by using Windows APIs or specialized tools such as NvrBoot.

Windows Vista also includes new BCD classes that are supported by the WMI provider and enable you to edit BCD programmatically. For information about BCD classes, see the end of this tip.



Introduction


The Bcdedit.exe command-line tool can be used to add, delete and edit entries in the BCD store which contains objects. Each object is identified by a GUID (Globally Unique Identifier). Every drive or partition on the system will have its own GUID and could be {legacy} (to describe a drive or partition on which a pre-Windows Vista operating system), {default} (to describe the drive or partition containing the current default operating system), or {current} (to describe the current drive or partition one is booted to), or for example {c34b751a-ff09-11d9-9e6e-0030482375e7} (to describe another drive or partition on which an operating system has been installed).

Bcdedit.exe is located in the \Windows\System32 directory of the Windows Vista partition and can be accessed only from the Command Prompt which is found on the Windows Vista start menu at Start>All Programs>Accessories. Then right click on the dos prompt and hit "Run as Administrator". Use basic dos commands like Cd.. (to go back a directory) and "cd windows" (to go foward to the windows directory from the current directory), once you have navigated to the C:/windows/system32 folder enter "bcdedit" in the command prompt.


BCDEDIT Commands

bcdedit /? Shows all commands one is able to use

bcdedit.exe /? CREATESTORE Shows detailed information for the command CREATESTORE or any other command available in bcdedit as shown when running bcdedit /? followed by the particular command more information is required for.

bcdedit or bcdedit /enum all Shows the current structure of your boot configuration data.
The GUID tags {xxxxxxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxx} of all Windows installations present on your computer will be displayed.


Create a Backup

It is strongly recommended that one creates a backup of the BCD store before making any changes to it.

bcdedit /export "D:\BCD Backup\Bcd Backup" Creates a backup to a pre-created folder, in this case “BCD Backup” on drive D:

bcdedit /import "D:\BCD Backup\Bcd Backup" Restores the backup previously created


Making Changes to the Boot Configuration Data

bcdedit /set {legacy} Description “Windows XP Professional SP2” Changes the text description of the “Legacy” OS line in the boot menu. The quotation marks must be included in the command

bcdedit /set {current} description "Windows Vista Build 5270 x86" Changes the text of the boot menu line for the Vista or non-Vista installation one is currently booted to, from the default "Microsoft Windows" or other description to that shown in the quotation marks

bcdedit /set {5189b25c-5558-4bf2-bca4-289b11bd29e2} description “Windows Vista Build 5270 x64” Changes the text of the boot menu line for any other Vista installation. One must use the GUID for that particular installation as shown when one runs the bcdedit or bcdedit /enum all command

bcdedit /default {current} Sets the current Windows installation one is booted to as the default Windows boot OS

bcdedit /default {5189b25c-5558-4bf2-bca4-289b11bd29e2} Sets the referenced Windows OS as the {default} Windows boot OS

bcdedit /default {legacy} Sets the legacy (Windows XP) OS as {default} boot item

bcdedit /displayorder Sets the display order of boot menu items for example:

bcdedit.exe /displayorder {legacy} {current}

bcdedit /timeout 15 Changes the default 30 second time-out of the boot menu to 15 seconds or any other value inserted.


Correcting changes to the Partition/Disk structure

Where a partition or a hard drive has been added or removed and has caused the partition/disk structure to change, this can be corrected by running these commands in the order shown:

X:\>X:\boot\fixntfs.exe -lh -all (Where X: is the drive/partition on which the folder "boot" is to be found)

bcdedit /set {5189b25c-5558-4bf2-bca4-289b11bd29e2} device partition=X: Changes boot partition of the OS whose GUID is indicated. (Where X: is new drive/partition required). Must be used together with the osdevice command below

bcdedit /set {5189b25c-5558-4bf2-bca4-289b11bd29e2} osdevice partition=X: Changes boot partition of the OS whose GUID is indicated. (Where X: is new drive/partition required). Must be used together with the device command above

[Vecchio Ricardo]

I have to agree with Super Sparks - the current version of PM never worked for me with a new Windows OS that appeared. If PM8 is the current Win XP version (?), then chances are PM won't work with Vista. No surprise there - despite all the tecchie explanations, it's best to wait until Symantec announce a version of PM that is compatible with Vista. Then you can have a go at them for the problems that PM causes, as for sure, it will.
What chance have 3rd party vendors of disk managment got with such a can of worms as Vista? I threw in the towel with PM4.

[x71s8zTN]

I used Paragon PM on XP, but find the Vista built in disk management more than adequate. Using it I partitioned C three ways, and an external USB HD into two partitions. Using "Shrink" function did not lose me any data on C. No muss, no fuss.