Is Dell Putting Spyware On Computers?

[SpywareDr]

http://techdirt.com/articles/20050530/2333212_F.shtml

Contributed by Mike on Monday, May 30th, 2005 @ 11:34PM
from the doesn't-seem-so-smart... dept.

Dell hasn't always had a great reputation when it came to spyware. A few years ago, they got into some PR trouble when internal memos came out telling tech support staff that they couldn't even tell callers about anti-spyware apps, because Dell was afraid such apps might remove some products that Dell was putting on the computers itself. Soon afterwards, though, Dell changed its tune. After realizing that a ton of the calls their support staff was getting related to spyware, Dell suddenly began an education campaign about spyware for its customers. Apparently, some of its executives need the same lesson.

Someone on Dave Farber's Interesting People list is complaining that Dell is about to automatically install what appears to be a piece of "spyware" on many Dell computers. The app in question is a support app, like many that are becoming increasingly popular from various computer makers. In this case, though, the app will continually report back to Dell various information about the computer's setup. Other support apps do the same thing -- but the user has at least some say in whether or not the app gets used.

Apparently (and this has not been independently verified, other than the email on the mailing list), the Dell app cannot be stopped using the normal "add/remove" functionality -- despite the app itself telling people to remove it that way. Instead, since the app runs on its own separate partition, Dell's pricey tech support told the guy the only way to remove it is to format that extra partition. That seems a bit extreme (it would seem that a firewall might also block any such transmissions, and there should be plenty of ways to stop the app from starting up in the first place...). Either way, though, it does seem a bit heavy handed for Dell to install an app that is not easily uninstalled by users -- especially one that is constantly reporting home with user details.

http://www.interesting-people.org/ar.../msg00299.html

interesting-people message

Subject: [IP] Dell - Extortion? - Follow Up

* From: David Farber <[email protected]>
* To: Ip ip <[email protected]>
* Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 19:21:34 -0400

Begin forwarded message:

From: Art Wolinsky <[email protected]>
Date: May 30, 2005 6:34:31 PM EDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: Dell - Extortion? - Follow Up

Within minutes of my post hitting IP, I had about a half-dozen replies. One suggested that I go to MSCONFIG and stop it from loading and another basically said, good luck, the only way you're going to get rid of it is by formatting the hard drive. I decided do some more digging and figured I'd have to bite the bullet and pay the fee to get it off. Here's what transpired.

Here is the exact alert I received today that started it all...

New and Improved Dell Support 3 Coming Soon!
Dell Support 2.x will be automatically upgraded via the Internet to the new Dell Support 3 by June 1st. No user interaction is required.
Dell Support 3 conducts real-time scans of your computing environment (PC, peripherals and network devices) for potential technical support and security issues, sends an alert when an issue arises, offering advice and in many cases the option to choose to run an automated fix. To learn more about what it monitors, click here."
NOTE: If you do not want to receive the upgrade, you need to uninstall Dell Support through Add or Remove Programs in the Control Panel.

Pay particular attention to the part about Add or Remove Programs. Guess what folks. You CAN'T remove it that way. I paid $49.95 plus tax to have the tech tell me that the software is on a ghost partition of the drive and the only way to get rid of it is to reformat the drive. I would like someone from Dell to explain to me why I am told to remove it through the Add or Remove Programs panel, when it can't be done. I it because people would be a tad bit upset if the said, "If you do not want to receive the upgrade, you need reformat your hard drive."

Personally, I feel this puts Dell right in the same category with the spyware folks we all know and love. The tech was quick to point out at there are plenty of other utilities that report information back to companies. To that I replied, yes, and every one of them gives me the option of not installing it or purchasing it. Even the worst spyware can be removed without reformatting a hard drive. Dell's software is going on my computer whether I like it or not and the only way I can prevent it is to do a full data back up, reformat my hard drive, and spend the next 3-4 day reinstalling all of my software.

I really don't think that's worth paying $50+ to find out. At that point, I asked him to put me in contact with someone who could refund the $49.95 plus tax that I had just paid. I was connected and without a great deal of difficulty or undue time, I did get the refund.

As things stand, Dell will be losing me as a customer.

Art

Art Wolinsky
OEO 3DWriting, Inc.
[email protected]
http://www.3dwriting.com

I am perfectly capable of learning from my mistakes.
I will surely learn a great deal today.

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[Syzich]

I wonder if that partition they are talking about is the same small FAT partition I have on my computer. I have formatted a few times since owning this computer, but I never deleted that partition when doing so, as I wasn't sure what it was for. I attched a pic to show what I'm talking about.

[ajgarvin]

I was disheartened to read the previous messages in this thread as I searched for a way to eliminate the Dell Support app from my computer. Indeed, when I tried to use Add and Remove Programs to eliminate Dell Support, it would act like it was doing so but, when it finished, the app was still there.

As a last ditch effort, I searched the Dell support website and found instructions that seem to have worked:
http://support.dell.com/support/topi...ent?dn=1092618

Here's an excerpt from the page:

Uninstalling Dell Support 2.x after a failed attempt.
If Dell Support 2.x is unable to uninstall properly, it may be necessary to run the Dell Support 2.x installation program to remove the program. To uninstall Dell Support 2.x, perform the following steps:

1. Click Start, then click Run.
The Run window appears.
2. In the Run window, type c:\dell\drivers and press the <Enter> key.
3. Look for the a folder with one of the following names:

* R49440
* R49442
* R49446
* R49447
* R49448
* R49450
* R57848
* R78569

NOTE: If the folder are not present, you can download it from http://support.dell.com or by clicking the following link:
Dell Support 2.11 Download Page


4. Double-click the folder found from the list above and then double-click setup.exe to launch the installation.
The Dell Support – InstallShield Wizard window appears.
5. Click Next, then Remove.
The uninstall process begins.
6. Click Finish.
The Dell Support - InstallShield Wizard window disappears.

[Welshjim]

I have always understood that Dell Support 2.x was there to assist Dell if you called them for support. IOW, they could access your PC at that time to scan and make recommendations. If correct, it would seem that Dell Support 3 will allow Dell to scan the hard drive anytime they want for whatever purpose.
Time to block access for Dell Support in my firewall's set up.

Syzich--Yes, that 31 MB FAT partition is Dell Support.

[ajgarvin]

Okay. I can see that while following the Dell instructions I posted a few hours ago did eliminate the E icon in the system tray and, I hoped, the corresponding processes (I haven't studied this yet), it did not eliminate the FAT partition.

Will dire consequences result if I use Partition Magic to delete that FAT partition?

[Welshjim]

ajgarvin--If you delete that partition, I think you still can reload Dell Support--if you ever need it, or maybe even run it from the CD-- from the CD's you got from Dell with the PC. Look at the content of those CD's.

did eliminate the E icon in the system tray

???
I have a Dell Support icon there, but it is not an E (more like a blue ball with a !). Maybe the icon has changed since I bought my Dell PC a year and half ago.

[Nix]

I have a Dell Support icon there, but it is not an E (more like a blue ball with a !). Maybe the icon has changed since I bought my Dell PC a year and half ago.

That's the icon for Avast!

[poppy4]

???
I have a Dell Support icon there, but it is not an E (more like a blue ball with a !). Maybe the icon has changed since I bought my Dell PC a year and half ago.

Jim you sure of that???....
My blue ball....( you should pardon the expression.... ..)
is avast! on- :access scanner.....

[ajgarvin]

Originally Posted by Welshjim

If you delete that partition, I think you still can reload Dell Support--if you ever need it, or maybe even run it from the CD-- from the CD's you got from Dell with the PC.

I should have been more clear...

• I'm not at all concerned about needing the Dell Support program. I'll download the installer from the Dell website and keep that around in case I ever want to reinstall Dell Support.
• I'm also not concerned about the general idea of deleting partitions. I own Partition Magic specifically for managing partitions, including occasionally deleting them.
• I am concerned with whether deleting the partition created by/for Dell Support may have any consequences other than making the Dell Support program non-functional.

[Dorian05]

I have recently purchased a dell, although only one of the lower models and upgraded it myself with a few extra bits, one of the first things I did was to create the rescue/restore disk which is XP Home OEM ( I think !) Then crazy as it sounds I formatted the new machine which in the process took all the bits of dell out that hide in the system as I have heard some if it can be hard to shift manually, although I have left the extra partition on for mo as I have not looked as to what this partition contains. Dells make a decent computer at a price you cant grumble at but I dont recon much to the software they provide with them !!

[Welshjim]

poppy4--Now that I look closer, I see that the "blue ball with !" icon in the SysTray (Notification Area) is for "Dell Support Alerts". I have no icon in Systray for "Dell Support", but I do have one in Start|All Programs. And it is a white E on a multicolored background.

ajgarvin--Since I have not deleted that partition, I cannot tell you what effect it would have on the PC. I did delete the other Dell-imposed partition--the one containing PC Restore--and that does not seem to have affected anything adversely.

[JPnyc]

I think they are, yes. I removed a few things from the last pc i got from them.

[poppy4]

poppy4--Now that I look closer, I see that the "blue ball with !" icon in the SysTray (Notification Area) is for "Dell Support Alerts". I have no icon in Systray for "Dell Support", but I do have one in Start|All Programs. And it is a white E on a multicolored background.

Jim....they do look similar....and I have the dell support one in start/programs...with..!...for 'check now', and the "E" one as well.
and avast in my sys tray with the 'a'.
FWIW....The first two days I had my Dell, I spent my time getting rid of all the c**p they put on...

[Syzich]

What is the exact name of the program? Dell Support? I don't see it in my add/remove programs list or in Start > All Programs. I only see Dell Resource CD. Also there is no icon for it in my systray. I do have Dell Solution Center listed under Start though.

[Welshjim]

Syzich--On my 1½ year old Dell 4600, Dell Support's shortcut is "C:\Program Files\Dell\Support\bin\Support.exe"
Dell Support Alerts' shortcut is "C:\Program Files\Dell\Support\bin\Support.exe" DA (Yes, there is a DA appended.)
In the former, "c:\Program Files\Dell\Support\bin\" is entered in the StartIn line.
In the latter, "c:\Program Files\Dell\Support\Alert\bin\" is entered into the StartIn line.