Operation Delta

The Queen of Hearts and I officially launch Operation Delta (Dedication to Excellence and Long Term Acheivement) which is for all members to participate in as we build two computers from the ground up since we do not know everything about what we are starting to do. The goal is to have the best that we can possibly have. For those of you not familiar with preliminary thoughts go to the long thread about HP that has been running. In addition the recorded step by steps that we take both in building, shake down and operation will not only help others but save alot of time. The queen of hearts may have some additional comments to get us started. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

This is the thread where we began, and which we will be using for reference.

This will be my first time.......be gentle. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Let's get started !

Queen of Hearts, Bistro brought up a point that needs to be considered before we go to far. See the HP thread. Mosaic had good thoughts as well.

greengoose,
I posted to the HP thread also after reading Bistro's message. Should we post to Comments and ask Housen, just to be on the safe side?

That is a good idea Queen of Hearts. I did check out the general hdware forum and found the same crossover of info on that page. Of course my point is we are building to use Win98 and the hardware portion of the project does support Win98, but then I am not always right. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ If this is not allowed we can still do using E-Mail etc. for our inputs. Whadayouthink? But do get ahold of Housen.

greengoose,
I have asked for permission.

I also realize there is a hardware forum, but I don't know any of those people. I have been reading this forum for quite a while. I value the opinions of, and trust the people here.

And their senses of humor, too ! https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

I couldn't argree more. On this forum we can tap alot of minds from all over the world also, where we can't individually and not to give any of these people big heads https://discussions.virtualdr.com/, but they are good. There is nothing wrong with change or improvement. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

That's another good thought, Mosaic. One point though, is the fact that we could finish a page or two, it could be archived and then start another thread (or chapter). Neither I nor the Queen of Hearts wish to create any problems. We've thrown something on the table for consideration and are getting feedback on it from y'all. There's nothing to take wrong. Appreciate you. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Hey if you want to learn from each other how to build systems, more power to you. It sounds like a great idea to me. But this does really belong in the General Hardware forum. I think it would be best if I moved it and asked you to discuss this over there.

Housen

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Housen Maratouk
Editor, Online Communities
internet.com Corporation
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by Housen Maratouk (edited 11-29-2000).]

Queen of Hearts and Housen, Here's what can happen. We go to hardware with this project. When we need help we come back and say as they do in Wal-Mart - "Code 25 to Hardware" which means we need some heavy help. We can help make hardware more active. We still can participate in Win98 Forum. We already have a ton of info to sift thru. Any one that wants can still be a part of it. Everybody gains. QoH - you will still have those you have come to know.

A Guide to Building a PC with an AMD Athlon™ Processor

http://www.amd.com/products/cpg/athl...owtobuild.html

The link has pictures and everything.

Captain's Log,Captain Jean Luc Picard, Commanding: It's Stardate 2467.9, and we still haven't found a cure for baldness.
We are on our way to the planet Rogaine in hopes that...

(I need some sleep too...)

Ok here goes...

*waves his hands and casts a spell to move the thread* https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Housen

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Housen Maratouk
Editor, Online Communities
internet.com Corporation
[email protected]

sleep
Sounds like a drug and that is a no no https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

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SMILE

oh ! Housen ! That felt strange ! https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Where am I ????? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Queen_of_Hearts

Try here for starters https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

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SMILE

[This message has been edited by Train (edited 11-29-2000).]

Interesting. We got work to do. Need some refreshment first. Be back shortly.

Train ! Are you trying to freak me out again ?? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

I just ended up right where I was !

Queen of Hearts, That was, I believe, something about going around in circles. Ok, we are at the beginning and as we develop I hope every one else will jump in and help us. Did you check all the sites that has been given us. I have not gotten to all of them yet. A lot of info in them. Now we need to make a plan and then work the plan. Shall we do specs first and then marry the best component to the spec keeping in mind cost? For instance, for our purposes, would 450mhz be fast enough or do we want a faster processor. At what point can we not see the difference. Would that then allow us to spend more on memory, say 30 or 40 gig. Maybe if we stay just behind the curve of hardware that is hot today our price will be lower. Your turn.

Queen_of_Hearts
If you were to click edit on my post you will find the address to this page under the here https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
It is called running in circles. Therefore ,you know where you are.
Hence foreth you are not lost. Can't be having that now. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

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SMILE

I have no objection to being behind the curve. I've seen friends buy the very latest and in two months are itching to upgrade. 30 to 60 gigs should be pleanty for the average user. (I have less than one https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ so I would be thrilled !)

I won't even comment on the 450mhtz I have no idea about that stuff. That's why I am here. If there is little difference and we have more money to spend on other componants I see no reason not to. Long as it's a good one. Reliable. That's what I want.

I just play on here. I don't need this for work or anything else for that matter. But I do like graphic programs and would like to be able to have more than one thing open at a time. And the kids would love to be able to play games. So with the money saved in one area I could have say a better video card ?


[This message has been edited by Queen_of_Hearts (edited 11-29-2000).]

Greengoose1 and QoH,
May I suggest a site to compare online prices? http://www.pricewatch.com

Hello dere! First thing you gotta ask yourself before building your own: What do I want to use it for? AND How much am I willing to spend? That'll go far in clarifying your goal. If it's gaming you're interested in, go for the most powerful mobo/CPU combo you can afford (with at least 128 PC-100 or 133 RAM) and a 3D vid card. If you just use the computer for the occasional home project or Internet/e-mail, then you don't really need the latest and greatest and would probably be very happy with middle-of-the-road components. Amother question: Can I get away with installing any existing parts in the one I have now?
If you don't mind, I'll be checking back here from time to time. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

OK, we learn together and help others along the way maybe. To my way of thinking stick with Win98 for an operating system then. I think it will be awhile until a person sees any big improvement over that. Something like 85 to 90% use Win98. Any comments on what Mosaic and some of the others had for suggestions today? As we both have Hot Mail, it will be easy to attach hard copies of info to send to each other. Can take advantage of MSN Messenger if we need to. A piece of cake Queen of Hearts https://discussions.virtualdr.com/, a piece of cake. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ Mach 2 indicated to me when I Emailed him $1400 would make a heck of a machine and maybe we could squeeze that if we stay behind the curve. What are your thoughts?

Thanks Bistro, you are always a help.

Oh please do Bistro. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/


Is it possible to have the middle of the road and still be able to play games maybe online like LifeQuest ? That would satisfy the kids.


And I could use existing parts from this one except that then I couldn't get here to do this!

So I guess we need to find out how much $ difference between
middle of the road and most powerful.

Then again...... with the gaming capabilities I would never get my "turn" ! https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Win 98se of course ! I already have the CD ! There's $89.00 we can spend on something else ! https://discussions.virtualdr.com/


[This message has been edited by Queen_of_Hearts (edited 11-29-2000).]

greengoose1
Check your mail https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Queen_of_Hearts
you also https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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SMILE

[This message has been edited by Train (edited 11-29-2000).]

QoH, Need good E-Mail address.

Well...I built mine to do both--use it primarily for doing 3D graphics, for work and my own use. It's a great system for both (and can handle all the latest games too, if need be). Only regret was getting the case from Tiger Direct--not the best case in the world; soon to be replaced. Built/upgraded it for around $900 (estimate). Here's what I put into it:
1. Soyo 6BA+IV---GREAT mobo; especially for overclocking. Recommend 6BA+100 (next in line--so you won't have to upgrade anytime soon)-- www.soyousa.com
2. 192 PC-100 RAM
3. 533 Celeron CPU--overclocked to 800; runs real smooth.
4. 56K v.90 US Robotics modem
5. Diamond Viper 770 non-ultra vid card (32mb): great card, but I'd recommend the Ultra series or get a GeForce 2 based card.
6. Soundblaster Live! sound card: Can't really get any better sound card, in my opinion. This one's a keeper.
7. Two 7200rpm WD hard drives---recommend Western Digitals or Seagates--a lot quieter than the Maxtors.
8. Kenwood 72x CD-ROM
9. HP CD-R/RW burner
10. Internal ZIP drive
11. standard floppy drive

(Note that cost did not include the monitor----got a Sony Trinitron Multiscan 17" a few years ago--it was around 500 then). If you are satisfied with your current monitor, I'd consider a monitor last---concentrate on the system first.
Prices/components have changed a lot since I put this thing together. So take the numbers with a grain of salt--shop around and above all be patient---you'll be a lot happier with the final product.
Does this help at all, or am I just spittin' in the wind here? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Not knowing the specs off the top of my head, leads me ask how much memory? The queen of hearts has roughly the same requirements, I think. Same as yours. Mine is business, graphics, and research. Games for the kids. Now things are starting to simmer. Great. Thanks. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Another subject: In looking at the posts here, it seems some of the questions are more software related and on a couple I suggested checking in at WIN98 Forum for help. If you have time please check it out and see what you think.

Bistro, This has been a big help.

[This message has been edited by greengoose1 (edited 11-30-2000).]

Thanks bistro ! https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
That's what I wanted to see. What you got and are happy with, and what you regret or would have done differently.

What in the world difference does the case make ? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Morning greengoose !

It's getting scary, Queen of Hearts, when we end up thinking about the same thing. In this particular instance - the case. I do not know how to figure what can go in a case. I don't know how they are set up. I do know That it should be expandable. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

We have had a lot of input. How ya doing on going through it so far. We are fortunate to have tapped the sources we have. I haven't aknowledged every one so far either.

How are we going to keep the length of this thread from getting to long. Get it closed after a page or two and reopen with Operation Delta 2. Then Delta 3, 4, etc. That way it would be in "book form in the archive.

[This message has been edited by greengoose1 (edited 11-30-2000).]

[This message has been edited by greengoose1 (edited 11-30-2000).]

greengoose,
When I look under the hood of mine there's all kinds of room. The big green flat thing ( https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ motherboard?) takes up the most space. Is it the holes for accessories that is not set up like you desire, bistro ?

The case can make a big difference in cooling. Poor design, intake fan too small, etc. can affect the components (overheating). Would recommend an Enlight ATX mid-tower case with at least a 300W power supply for starters. There ARE more sophisticated cases out there, but probably not for what you're looking for here. SIZE: You need to determine what drives you plan to install i.e.: CD-ROM, CD-R/RW or both? ZIP drive? Tape drive? Are the bays the slide-in type, or bolt down? Will this case fit into the 'office space'? Does it come equipped with an auxilary exhaust fan (or will I have to install one?)? Make sure there are enough bays on the case to accomodate all the drives you want.
....questions, questions..... https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
BTW: you want an ATX case (and motherboard), NOT an AT! Watch what you order carefully.

bistro,

Enlight ATX case and motherboard. You mean those things should match ?

In your list your motherboard is a Soyo but your case is Tiger Direct.

And (sorry ....I'm gonna be a pest) does mid-tower mean it is medium size or is that just what ATX (a brand ?) happens to call their tower.

Boy, I just know I'm gonna look back at myself in this thread when this is over and think what an idiot ! https://discussions.virtualdr.com/



[This message has been edited by Queen_of_Hearts (edited 11-30-2000).]

No, no..."ATX" is NOT a name-brand. There are three basic types of motherboards, AT, Baby AT and ATX. When choosing a case, you need to match the case type with the motherboard type. I.E.: An ATX-model mobo will not fit properly in an AT-model case.
Lots to choose from out there--you'll see it in the advertising as to whether it's an AT model or ATX model. For what you two are proposing, you want an ATX-Type motherboard; therefore, when choosing a case, be sure you get an ATX-type case. I recommended the Enlight brand for it's quality and price. Basically 3 sizes: mini-tower, mid-tower, and "big momma" https://discussions.virtualdr.com/. (Mid-tower is the most popular and normally what all the name-brand computer makers offer.) Usually has 3 to 4 bays. I think the mid-tower would serve your purposes. Mini-tower doesn't allow any room to expand if you wanted to add another component. The large (or "full") tower would probably be overkill (9 or more bays).



[This message has been edited by bistro (edited 11-13-2001).]

Queen of Hearts, Ignorance is when you don't ask questions. And I am glad to be working with someone who is not afraid to ask. As one of the members says, "There is no dumb question". Please read my last edit on another post.

I see.
Different makers of cases all are going to call them either AT, Baby AT or ATX and the motherboard makers call them the same thing.......for compatability purposes.

Now.

How many kinds of processors are there ? I know there's AMD and Intel> Celeron and Pentium (two different kinds ?)

I see you have a Celeron. With your infinite wisdom, https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ tell why would I choose one over the other ?

Is your brain hurting from all this picking, bistro ? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

greengoose,
I have not even looked at the price comparison links yet. I'm saving those for when decisions are made on brands. The other stuff ( like ghouldini's and Dirty Columbian's "How to" links), I am studying, and have all those bookmarked for when I get to the installation phase. I think it'll make more sense when the pieces are sitting here in front of me.
The "Oh ! you don't want that..." or "I hate my...." input feels most important to me at this stage.
How about you ?

"Infinite wisdom?" LOL! https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
Getting a recommendation for a CPU is like asking "Which car is best, in your opinion?"
Lots of opinions, likes/dislikes and downright feuds out there concerning the "best" CPU. I went with the Celeron 533 specifically to overclock it (something I wouldn't recommend you attempt or contemplate at this point https://discussions.virtualdr.com/). You have to shop for mobos and CPU's in tandem; some mobos are designed for AMD chips; other for Intel Pentium/Celeron---different CPU sockets for all. At the risk of raising a can of worms perhaps with some other readers, I'd go with a Pentium III.
BTW, a 30 gig hard drive is way plenty for a home computer; unless you do a lot of archiving of large files such as video and/or audio. Greengoose said he did a lot of research, etc.--depending on how much, perhaps a second 30 gig hd may be in order.