Slow File Transfer (copy/paste)

Hi, i have just installed Win2000 in drive D as a dual boot to Win98fe.

Mostly good so far just a few questions that i'm wondering about:

1. when copying/moving data from 1 drive to another (or diff part on same)it seems to take almost twice as long as Win98 to copy the files over.

i remember i had this problem when i installed win98 and i had to turn on DMA.....

.....i found DMA setting in Win2k but it wouldn't let me change it to UDMA!!! Stuck in PIO mode!!! why?

2. can i/how do i: Change the letters of My CD-ROMS so they r the same as i use in Win98, (normally in device manager in Win98...where in Win2000)?

There was another question which i've now 4got, lol, sure i'll remember soon, thx in advance for your help and time https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

------------------
HP Pavilion 8730uk: Athlon 850, 512mbRAM, TNT2 Pro, SB Live1024, Win98FE/2000Pro & Cable Modem.
LG CED-8083b CD-RW, Samsung SD-612 DVD-ROM, Quantum 30gb lct15-30 & Western Digital 45gb WD450AA HDD

[This message has been edited by LotusAstra (edited 08-04-2001).]

In response to question 1) http://win2000tips.home.att.net/Tipstricks.htm#DMA/UDMA and Win2000

Looks like question 2) got answered in another thread.

ah-ha thx yes question 2 was answered else where, but question 1 still needs sorting as that link didn't help in my situation, i always get problems that no1 has ever heard of, lol

Thx for the help so far https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Hi, any more ideas on Question 1?

just bumping....it seem there r more and more people with the sane problem as the days go by...i keep checking back on this post and the other peoples with the same prob, but no1 has found a fix yet.....

Regards https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

------------------
HP Pavilion 8730uk: Athlon850, 512mbRAM, TNT2 Pro, SB Live1024, DualBoot-Win98FE/2000Pro & Cable Modem
LG CED-8083b CD-RW, Samsung SD-612 DVD-ROM, Quantum lct15-30 30gb & Western Digital WD450AA 45gb

Hi, this is copied from my reply in another thread.
one thing that seems to be slightly deficient in the Win2k default install is it doesn't always set the Disk controllers to use DMA. They sometimes default to PIO (Programmed I/O) This is severa; orders of madnitude slower than DMA (10000:1 as an extreme). Goto system properties under Hardware Tab and push Device Manager button. Find the line item that says something like IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers. Expand it by pushing + hilite the primary IDE Channel (this is you HDD'S) right click properties and make sure all devices listed under Advanced settings are set to DMA.
Do the same for the secondary chanells these will be your CD/DVD stuff.

Hi jremillard, i've allready tried that, thas y i'm here 'cuz it didn't work...they just stay set to PIO mode after restart.

THX 4 the reply, any other ideas? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Hang on there is something here i remember from a ,while back. Something about the AutoDetect not recognizing the DMA capability. I'll look a bit and maybe someonelse will remember this issue too. HDD in all modern machines are capable of DMA.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by LotusAstra:
Hi jremillard, i've allready tried that, thas y i'm here 'cuz it didn't work...they just stay set to PIO mode after restart.

THX 4 the reply, any other ideas? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

---

Enabling UDMA/66

However, even after you have enabled DMA on your IDE channels, UDMA/66 is still disabled by default in Win2k. To enable it, it is necessary to play around with the registry a bit. If you would like to perform the operation manually, you can do it by browsing to the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Class\{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\0000 key and adding a new DWORD value called EnableUDMA66. Set the value to 1 to enable UDMA/66 or to 0 to disable UDMA/66.

hi Rob, thx for the suggestion, i gave it a try, i think i done it right but that didn't work neither...Win2k registry seems a little differnt to Win98 so could u comfirm that i done it the right way:

i highlighted the key: 4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318 and clicked on 'EDIT>ADD VALUE...' gave it name of 'EnableUDMA66' and data type 'REG_DWORD' then a 'HEX DATA' value of '1'.

i wasn't very specific in my first post so heres some more info that may help, this is how devices are setup at the moment (its the best i can get it):

Primary IDE -- 2HDD's 30 & 45gig
Device 0: Transfer Mode: DMA if available
Current Transfer Mode: PIO Mode
Device 1: Transfer Mode: DMA if available
Current Transfer Mode: Ultra DMA Mode

Secondary IDE -- CD-RW & DVD-ROM
Device 0: Transfer Mode: DMA if available
Current Transfer Mode: PIO Mode
Device 1: Transfer Mode: DMA if available
Current Transfer Mode: Ultra DMA Mode

as u can see i am only getting this problem on device 0 in both Primary and secondary IDE...Device 1 works in DMA mode normally (?huh?), so maybe UDMA/66 is allready enabled...as if it wern't then i would assume that none of the devices would be in DMA mode....

most appreciated for all help, hopefully there must be someone that has resolved this issue b4...Regards https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

------------------
HP Pavilion 8730uk: Athlon850, 512mbRAM, TNT2 Pro, SB Live1024, DualBoot-Win98FE/2000Pro & Cable Modem
LG CED-8083b CD-RW, Samsung SD-612 DVD-ROM, Quantum lct15-30 30gb & Western Digital WD450AA 45gb

Quote:

---

Originally posted by LotusAstra:
hi Rob, thx for the suggestion, i gave it a try, i think i done it right but that didn't work neither...Win2k registry seems a little differnt to Win98 so could u comfirm that i done it the right way:

i highlighted the key: 4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318 and clicked on 'EDIT>ADD VALUE...' gave it name of 'EnableUDMA66' and data type 'REG_DWORD' then a 'HEX DATA' value of '1'.

i wasn't very specific in my first post so heres some more info that may help, this is how devices are setup at the moment (its the best i can get it):

Primary IDE -- 2HDD's 30 & 45gig
Device 0: Transfer Mode: DMA if available
Current Transfer Mode: PIO Mode
Device 1: Transfer Mode: DMA if available
Current Transfer Mode: Ultra DMA Mode

Secondary IDE -- CD-RW & DVD-ROM
Device 0: Transfer Mode: DMA if available
Current Transfer Mode: PIO Mode
Device 1: Transfer Mode: DMA if available
Current Transfer Mode: Ultra DMA Mode

as u can see i am only getting this problem on device 0 in both Primary and secondary IDE...Device 1 works in DMA mode normally (?huh?), so maybe UDMA/66 is allready enabled...as if it wern't then i would assume that none of the devices would be in DMA mode....

most appreciated for all help, hopefully there must be someone that has resolved this issue b4...Regards https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

---

You have done that ok but you have to reboot to make the changes work.

As you posted your setup I see one thing you might try: change your hardware setting to the following:
Primary IDE -- HD 30 Gig & CD-RW
Secondary IDE -- HD 45 Gig & DVD-ROM

That could help you.
Does your motherboard support ATA100?
Which ATA mode are your harddisks supporting?
Some CD-RW drives run in UDMA mode, but W2k isn't showing that anyway.

Why hardware manufacturers do not implement automatic UDMA recognition and activation into the BIOS goes beyond my imagination... :-(

thanx all for the suggestions so far, i dont really wanna start swapping drives at the moment, but maybe that would solve/bypass the problem....i would like to put the drives as u said for other reasons as well, but just ain't got round to it yet.

...but because of this and another problem with audio, i had given up on Win2k for a while b'cuz, the MAIN Reason i installed it was to use it where Win98 lacked stability.......b'cuz i hate Hard ShutDowns!

.....soi still have an OS with Slow file Transfer...and also won't send AC3 signal for Playing DVD's....

...well thas only 2 bad things i've found so far, but unfortunatly its 2 major things i would have put to use, other than that i wish i could use it......

i might start another post on the AC3 problem eventually, but at the moment does any1 have any more ideas on the DMA issue for now....

.....if i could get that fixed at least i could use it for my normal programs, with out having to Reboot to Win98 when the going gets tough....

Any Ideas, Thx all https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Swapping the drives as described by Robert makes perfectly sense.
You IDE controller(s) can only handle one data request at a time - you cannot send and receive data at the same time on one channel. If each of your drives is hooked up to seperate controllers one will then be able to send data while the other can receive data at the same time - logically this will speed up things.
Having DVD and CD-RW on seperate controllers will also be beneficial to your system, for the same reason: it will enable you to copy data directly from DVD to CD-RW at a faster rate.
Keep the drive hooked up as primary master where it is and move the primary slave to become secondary master, move the CD/DVD accordingly - your system shouldn't know the difference. Remember to change the physical settings (master/slave jumpers) of the drives to reflect the changes.
If it doesn't work out to your liking your can always switch back.

------------------
Karl, Denmark
---------
"..and may The Force be with you - too..."

hi, Thx m8, as i said i do allready really wanna do the swap, for the reasons u just mentioned.......

.....would u recommend backing up both drives or would my DATA be safe during the swap....

.....the reason i haven't done it yet is because there is a lot of un-back'd-up data i wouldn't wanna lose if it goes wrong. and also i remember when i first installed my drive i had many problems getting them to work at all with them mastered/slaved as u and i think they should be (system wouldn't recignise all drives or sumut i think (was a while ago) got so bad i returned the HDdrive for another1 https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ )

however, now i think it might have been sumut to do with 'Cable Select'.......are CS IDE cables different to a normal ones and where it says MASTER and SLAVE on the ends of the CS cables, does that mean that only a MASTER Drive can go on the end of the MASTER CS IDE Cable (i need to put a SLAVE CD ROM on the MASTER connection of the CS IDE, will this work if drive is set to SLAVE)?

.......bacically do i need to take notice of the markings on the Marked IDE cables if i'm not gunna set the drives Manually anyWay and not use Cable Select?

i'll try it if i get the answers i hope for and after i've backed up important stuff.

Any ideas?

Regards https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

<BUMP> looks like i'll never fix this problem.....until hopefully XP

i am supprised that no1 have had to fix this problem b4, maybe i am to persistant, and any1 else would have binned it by now!

.....Any Ideas Please......Thx for the advice so far https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

For an explanation of CS read here: http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/ide/conf_CS.htm

Master/slave settings don't care about where the drives are located on the cable, as long as the cable connectors are turned the right way round. Usually there's a notch in the connector of the drive that will prevent you from inserting the cable the wrong way. You'll know when you see it.

------------------
Karl, Denmark
---------
"..and may The Force be with you - too..."

thx m8...that link told me just what i needed 2 know about CS and a few other things, most appreciated https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

...anyway back to the problem in question, i dont think that swapping my Drives around will solve this any more...i think i will still have 2 drives not working only in PIO mode....

is there any thing else i need to check....remember i've just installed this OS and have never used Win2k b4, so it could be almost obvious....i have no clue...

...i guess from my lack of fix that this ain't a common problem with Win2k, could it be any hardware issues...where do i start...... i need advice what would u do/check in this situation?

Thx all https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

I have a question for the group: Aren't Cable Select cables different from normal IDE cables? Don't they require the drives to be jumpered as CS and the drives installed as Master and Slave according to the cable markings? I may be wrong on this since I haven't used such cables before, but I believe I've read this several times in different places, and if it is true, this could be contributing to Lotus' problem if the drives are not hooked up properly. TIA

------------------
Jeff Wise
Louisville, KY

To get the best out of UDMA I suggest that HDs are on ONE cable and CD-ROMs/CD-RWs on ONE cable.
You need TWO cables. One for your CDs (SCSI units) and another cable for your HDs (IDE units).

Don't have any cable select settings. I think it's better without it. Set the HD tp Primary master on one of the cables and then set the CD-ROM to slave on the other cable.

------------------
AMD650 Mhz, K7V, 128Mgb RAM, Matrox Millenium G400 32Mb, SBLive!, 3Com 3C905C
Windows 98 SE + Windows NT 4.0 Workstation

Visit our webiste! -> N-Show 2000

Thank you, Karl, for the post explaining Cable Select (I overlooked it prior to posting my question concerning the subject).

Lotus, according to one of your earlier posts, you have two IDE hard drives, two IDE CDs (RW and DVD), and NO SCSI devices, is that correct? In order for your system to function properly, you are going to have to look at the cables going to the HDs and the CDs to determine if they are or are not Cable Select cables, and then jumper your drives accordingly.

If they ARE cable select cables, you need to make sure the drives are on the correct connectors (masters and slaves) and that the jumpers on the drives are all set to "CS".

If they are NOT cable select cables, you need to make sure you have only one drive jumpered as master and one for slave on each cable.

This may or may not affect the problem(s) you were having with PIO vs. DMA, but in order for your drives to work properly, you must jumper them in accordance with the type of cables you have or you must get different cables. Either way, you need to look at your system and determine what type of setup you have and then work with it.

BTW, swapping drives will not hurt your data, so if you are thinking of swapping them but are worried, don't be. Two people already have suggested you will get better performance out of your system if you will put one hard disk as master and one CD as slave on each cable. I am suggesting you try that as it won't hurt your data and you can change it back if it doesn't help. But you definitely need to check the cables and the jumpers to make sure they are set up as described above.

------------------
Jeff Wise
Louisville, KY

[This message has been edited by Jeff_LouKY (edited 08-24-2001).]

Qwemliis, i have no SCSI drives....but my setup is as u mentioned tho but just on IDE's

Jeff_LouKY yes u are correct i have two IDE hard drives, two IDE CDs (RW and DVD), and NO SCSI devices at all.....

all my IDE cables in my pc have MASTER/SLAVE on ends of 'em (so i guess they both CS cables, 1 deffinatly is)....i have left my CD-RW+DVD on the secondary exeactly as it came from HP with both set to CS mode.....

i added the second 45gigHDD as a slave about 6 months to the existing 30gigHDD and jumpered them accordingly....

--------------------
just 1 thing that confused me Quote Jeff:

If they ARE cable select cables, you need to make sure the drives are on the correct connectors (masters and slaves) and that the jumpers on the drives are all set to "CS".

If they are NOT cable select cables, you need to make sure you have only one drive jumpered as master and one for slave on each cable.
--------------------
from what i understood from the link from kallikru it said that CS cable are Backwards Compatable, heres the quote for your info:
--------------------
There's actually no need to have different cable types, because if you set a drive to "master" or "slave" explicitly, it just ignores the CSEL setting. So a cable select cable can be used either way: regular jumpering or cable select.

As I mentioned before, you can still explicitly set drives to master or slave if you want to, and the CSEL signal will be ignored by the drives. So the bottom line is that these cables work either way, cable select or not.
------------------------

so this is good news, as i would have to set them manually when i do the swap to make the cables reach, so i dont need new cables https://discussions.virtualdr.com/.

thx to everybody for the info, i wont be doing the swap for a while as at the moment i'm happy with the current performance when using Win98, its just Win2000 thas giving me grief, and i dont think that swapping HDD's will cure my 2000 problems, but yeah i'm sure i'll have another go at swapping drives eventually, as i now have all the info i need to be sure of what i'm gunna do will work https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

anyway back to the original PIO mode only problem, i looks like i'm stuck with it until WinXP arrives, unless someone can prove me wrong, but after all this time my hopes are low, seems a format/Delete of Win2000 is getting closer, as with-out DMA i haven't got a use for it b'cuz i'd have to boot to Win98 for a demanding task, which kinda defeates the object a bit https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Most appreciated for all your help/advice so far, this forum is great https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ but i get problems that suck. lol https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

You missunderstood!
ALL CD_ROMs/CD-RW are SCSI drives if we look at with the eye of the Windows 2000 Operating system! In the computer shop they are IDE devices but in the OS they are SCSI devices. That's why I said it.

Now:
Please connect the HDs on ONE cable and the CD-ROMs on ONE cable.
It doesn't work right?
Pull out the CD-ROMs. Does it work?
If it doesn't pull out the Slave HD. if it doesn't work you can forget about UDMA.

The Master drive must support it or else it won't work...

------------------
AMD650 Mhz, K7V, 128Mgb RAM, Matrox Millenium G400 32Mb, SBLive!, 3Com 3C905C
Windows 98 SE + Windows NT 4.0 Workstation

Visit our webiste! -> N-Show 2000

ahhh rite sorry m8...thx for clarifiying...

QUOTE:
Please connect the HDs on ONE cable and the CD-ROMs on ONE cable.
It doesn't work right?

u r correct this is how mine is setup now and it dont work!

QUOTE:
The Master drive must support it or else it won't work...

on my PC both my masters r set to PIO and slaves to UDMA, don't make sence after what u just said, unless my drives support it (which they do) but Win2000 just wont activate it on the Master.....my PC is weird...

i shall try your suggestion/experiments first b4 i move them....but just 1 thing, all my drives support DMA under Win98, so does this mean that Win2000 DEFINATLY should use DMA for these Drives or does Win2000 need different requirements from a HDD etc?

thx https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

[This message has been edited by LotusAstra (edited 08-24-2001).]

Windows 2000 supports it!

BUT NOT YOUR CONTROLLER CARD DRIVERS!

We must find out which controller card driver that doesn't. ok?

That's why I want you to see if the master makes it on itself, and then the next HD, and then the next! This way we can exclde and then find out which controller card driver that is incompatible.
Then we'll upgrade it https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

------------------
AMD650 Mhz, K7V, 128Mgb RAM, Matrox Millenium G400 32Mb, SBLive!, 3Com 3C905C
Windows 98 SE + Windows NT 4.0 Workstation

Visit our webiste! -> N-Show 2000

Hi, been busy with sum non PC stuff for a while and pretty much got fed up with the Win2k Problems on my Athlon so decided to install it on my other PC (Celeron300) with (U)DMA all round (was a relief) all OK on that 1, i actually like Win2k on that 1 other than 1 minor prob which i'll start another post on l8er....

Qwemliis: u mention CONTROLLER CARD DRIVER updates....can i just try some different (researched) drivers without doing the HDD jumper/swapping stuff....???

i may have time soon to experment with jumpers but, as XP is so close, it seems such a waste of time b'cuz i have a small Hewlett Packard case which is a pain in the a** to remove HDD's to change jumpers etc......

Win2k is obviously still installed on the PC with DMA Probs at the moment, but i may delete it in the next few weeks as i have no use for it with its bugs, so unless i/we can come up with a masterplan that don't involve opening up the PC case then i guess its gotta go.

i look foward to some ideas to try, my win98/2k drives r backedup so i am willing to experiment with software & drivers......any ideas????

Regards https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

bump