Software Diagnostic tool

My PC has been freezing as some of you folks already know. Upon waking up from SLEEP or a fresh rebooting, it will freeze within the first 5 minutes. If it is able to get pass the 5-10 minutes time frame, it will run fine. A clean install of Windows 7 or Windows 10 resulted in the same freezing. Even when applications have not been launched, it freezes. It made me more incline that it is a hardware issue.

I went to Frys today to get a PSU. Instead, they recommended me to download a "S.M.A.R.T Check" tool to diagnose the system before replacing anything. That made sense.

Can you recommend a software to diagnose my hardware (Motherboard, CPU, SSD, HD, RAM, PSU, Video Card, Audio Card, etc...)

I have used UBCD to rule out that is not the RAM.

Has anyone used the window version of UBCD?
http://www.windows7download.com/win7.../gcvmqjdj.html

Otherwise, feel free to share.:)

I also have one of those PSU checking device. Has anyone used it and does it work? Maybe I should use it and check the volts. If it is a PSU issue, then the Window would not work at all right? This is randomly freezing within the first 5 minutes after Windows launched. Again, if passed that time frame, then everything is OK.

UBCD4Win is a COMPLETELY different project and it's really old (XP-based). Yes, I've used it before and it takes time to customize and build. It's not a one-shot .iso like UBCD5.

The PSU tools usually just check for the voltage. That doesn't guarantee that it's totally stable. That's why I swap out the PSU.

S.M.A.R.T is specifically for hard disks.

I won't waste my time with UBCD4Win if that is the case. Thanks for preventing me to chase my tail.

I did buy a PSU: http://www.microcenter.com/product/4...V_Power_Supply


They also have these in the $95 range:
http://www.microcenter.com/search/se...+4294850861+38

BTW... Midknyte, I just installed CrystalDiskInfo to check the status of the SSDs and HDs. Is there any function in the application that I need to run? All it say is "Good" for each of the drive.

Nope. It'll either say Good or Bad.
https://www.pcsteps.com/2530-predict...tal-disk-info/

If you still want to scan the SSD, you'd need to run the manufacturer's diags from their SSD tools. Again, few if any are bootable.

Hi Midknyte,

Here is an update. I have bought a new PSU but still have not installed it yet. Two things I did:

First, when the computer freezes, it is during a copy of a dvd data to the hard drive. When it comes to software, I can think of a few applications that are getting in the way, such as truecrypt, veracrypt, etc... When it comes to hardware, what can it be?

Second, I have removed the CPU fan and CPU. I have cleaned both and reapplied thermal paste. After doing so, I noticed that when starting the computer, the fan comes on really strong (like full speed) but then gets adjusted and go to normal speed. It used to do this only at the beginning when I bought this Zalman fan years ago. I don't want to knock on wood or be happy too soon but since doing this, my PC has not crashed for 3 days.

Your thoughts please??

Thanks

For hardware, it's the anything involved with the process. DVD > DVD drive > Motherboard/PSU > Hard drive and cables.

I'm sure encryption is not helping matters there. Did you test without encryption?

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Second, I have removed the CPU fan and CPU. I have cleaned both and reapplied thermal paste. After doing so, I noticed that when starting the computer, the fan comes on really strong (like full speed) but then gets adjusted and go to normal speed.

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That's pretty normal. My computers do that too.

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Originally Posted by Midknyte

For hardware, it's the anything involved with the process. DVD > DVD drive > Motherboard/PSU > Hard drive and cables.

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What about CPU and RAM? Can the cleaning of the CPU helped with the stability?

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Originally Posted by Midknyte

I'm sure encryption is not helping matters there. Did you test without encryption?

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Kind of. When I installed a clean copy of Windows 10, the OS partition/drive was not encrypted. However, the personal data drive was.

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What about CPU and RAM? Can the cleaning of the CPU helped with the stability?

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Those too. But didn't you do a memory test? Cleaning will help if the CPU was overheating.

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the OS partition/drive was not encrypted. However, the personal data drive was.

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Well, that's not a true test then. Were you writing to the personal data drive?

Yes, RAM test passed and I have been using RealTemp for years to monitor overheating. No signs of overheating.

I was not copy/cut/paste any files from/to the personal data drive. It was just plugged in. I bought two of these about 4 years ago: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820250001

The first one died the first year. The second one is still functioning. I use it as my data drive when I am doing video/audio monitoring.

I also have a regular HD that is encrypted and I think it was plugged in at the time. That drive is for storage.

Anyway, thank you. I am going back and do more testings. So far, no crashes for the last 3 days. Have a good night Midknyte.

If the cpu gets hot enough to flip data bits, all kinds of weird things can happen. Usually about 65-68 C is when that takes place.

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Originally Posted by Midknyte

That's pretty normal. My computers do that too.

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the thing is, it hasn't done that for a long while. I guess why would replying thermal paste makes the cpu fan acts normal with the fan revving up on stay and adjust to normal. So far, no more crashes.

Train, since my drives are encrypted, when moving large files, it can get up between 70-85c.

Do you have any fans for cooling the drives?

Hi jdc, for the hard drives and SSDs, yes. I have two direct fans (120mm) for them.


When I took the cpu fan (zalman) off, I did notice heavy dirt build up at the base, not on the fins.

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Originally Posted by Falcon Speed

Train, since my drives are encrypted, when moving large files, it can get up between 70-85c.

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That explains the trouble to me. At 60 C, I hit the panic button. And why when I lived in the Seattle area, I HAD to clean out the dust and junk every three weeks. Washington state coast, twice a year was enough. But here, once a year is over kill.

Just checked the old desktop, 18 C idling and 48C under a good load.
Not the first case I have added fans to either. Mods, if done right can pay off nicely!
Mods means modifications in this case.

This works

http://discussions.virtualdr.com/ima.../2016/09/3.jpg

70-85C? Yikes, that is hot. Sounds like your CPU is working extra hard to encrypt the files.

Oh, I thought 70-85c is normal for gamers (not that I am a gamer). It idles at 40c in the summer and it idles at 31c in the winter.

What can I do to lower it? The case is wide open.

Thank you

After thinking about it, it might be or might not be the CPU.

Usually, when it freezes, it usually happens minutes after waking up from SLEEP which means the CPU is at room temperature and not over heated.

However, after the cleaning of the fan, it has not crashed.

Uh, other than not using encryption on the full drive? You didn't say which encryption you are using; you only mentioned a couple of names.
Did you look at Task Manager to see which processes are running during the copy?

You didn't give the system specs like CPU and MB. A faster CPU might help with load, but it'll still get hot eventually.

You can try changing the airflow in the case, like Train suggested.

Here is the system specification:

GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD5 LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX

OCZ ModXStream Pro 700W Modular

Intel Core i7-930 Bloomfield 2.8GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core BX80601930

Patriot Viper Xtreme 12GB(3 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2000(PC3 16000) PX7312G2000ELK (24 GB Total)

SanDisk Extreme SDSSDX-120G-G25 2.5 120GB SATA III
Western Digital SiliconEdge Blue SSC-D0064SC-2100 2.5 64GB SATA II MLC

BFG Tech BFGE88512GTSE GeForce 8800GTS(G92) 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

ZALMAN CNPS9500A-LED 92mm 2 Ball CPU Cooler

I am using Veracrypt.

My air exchange is almost identical to what Train has posted.

When it freezes, it is not during the copy but randomly during the wakeup from sleep.

Ok, that seems like a solid setup. I still think you should look at the CPU loads. 70-85C is really high.

Have you checked the Veracrypt forums for freezing issues?
https://sourceforge.net/p/veracrypt/discussion/

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I still think you should look at the CPU loads.

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I agree with that and do not be surprised if task manager does not open up real quickly. Go get a cup of coffee, tea. As something is really throwing a load on it when coming out of sleep mode.

At those temps and starting before it even gets that hot, the cpu is slowed down and I mean a crawl is faster.

Coming out of sleep, you now know why I refuse to use it.

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Originally Posted by Midknyte

I still think you should look at the CPU loads. 70-85C is really high.

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Do I review the CPU loads in Task Manager?

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Originally Posted by Midknyte

Have you checked the Veracrypt forums for freezing issues?
https://sourceforge.net/p/veracrypt/discussion/

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Thanks for the link but I have looked at their forum already.

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Originally Posted by Train

As something is really throwing a load on it when coming out of sleep mode.

At those temps and starting before it even gets that hot, the cpu is slowed down and I mean a crawl is faster.

Coming out of sleep, you now know why I refuse to use it.

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It is not just after SLEEP that it freezes. Sometimes right after a fresh reboot. So out of 10 times, it would freeze 5 times after waking up from sleep and 2 times after reboot. Today is day 4 that it has not freeze.

Thank you

Googled - check cpu load in task manager - About 4,600,000 results (0.44 seconds)
https://www.google.com/#q=check+cpu+...n+task+manager
That is for windows, now for Linux it is htop
check cpu usage in ubuntu
https://www.google.com/#q=check+cpu+usage+in+ubuntu

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It is not just after SLEEP that it freezes. Sometimes right after a fresh reboot. So out of 10 times, it would freeze 5 times after waking up from sleep and 2 times after reboot. Today is day 4 that it has not freeze.

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Something is corrupted in the ram and does not have time enough for it to disappear. Shut it down, wait 30 seconds minimum, then reboot. Learned that trick back in 98 and it still works in Win 10. And is one of the reasons I do NOT use hibernation or Sleep.

But as you have gotten rid of the overheating problem, it seems you have gotten rid of the problem of the flipped data bits that was causing the lock ups.

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Originally Posted by Train

Googled - check cpu load in task manager - About 4,600,000 results (0.44 seconds)
https://www.google.com/#q=check+cpu+...n+task+manager

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OK, thanks. I thought it was something special that I had to do to check for CPU Load.

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Originally Posted by Falcon Speed

Second, I have removed the CPU fan and CPU. I have cleaned both and reapplied thermal paste. After doing so, I noticed that when starting the computer, the fan comes on really strong (like full speed) but then gets adjusted and go to normal speed. It used to do this only at the beginning when I bought this Zalman fan years ago. I don't want to knock on wood or be happy too soon but since doing this, my PC has not crashed for 3 days.

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Update: Tomorrow will be day 7 that it has been crashed "free".

So why would cleaning the CPU fan make the fan started up normally (reviving up on start up and adjust to normal)? For the last 3 years, when I turn on or wake up my computer, the fan would just start but never rev up and adjust. Something about this seems to have fixed (knock on wood) the freeze problem which means it was a hardware issue. Could this still be a PSU issue? Could the dust clinged to the base of the fan, produced static?

If not enough air is pushed through the psu, things overheat, maybe a airpocket developed in the thermo paste.
I use q-tips and 90% alcohol to clean the fan blades. Having worked with a cfm meter, I can say it does not take much build up to cut the air flow by 25%.

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For the last 3 years,

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Good length of time for factory thermo paste to last, but as you found out, it has to be replaced once in a while. So that is nothing new as most of us have had to do that multiple times.

Case fans, be darn sure they move enough cfm to cool things the way you want them And quite enough too.

Example

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fan kicks out 252 cubic feet of air every minute - one fan can cool an entire system with ease. Of course, at 66.5 dBA, it is hardly quiet

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Even being deaf that 66.5 dBA noise would drive me nuts.
Plus get the air moving fast enough and you WILL hear it. Lessons learned!!!

Forgot this for a bit:
Side panel fans, you have to experiment to find out if blowing or out is the cooler option.

Mod a case.
http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthrea...iewmode=author

Cutting the screen behind the case fans has really help me cut temps up to as high as 12 C.
Cut out the screens and replaced with grill many a time.

http://discussions.virtualdr.com/ima...2016/10/35.jpg

EXAMPLES:
https://www.google.com/search?q=case...&dpr=1#imgrc=_

The tool I use to remove the screen, so I do not have to strip the case first.

http://discussions.virtualdr.com/ima...2016/10/34.jpg

Hi Train,

Thank you for all of those suggestions.

My side panel has been off for years. I really think it is not an over-heating issue but more of either a static or PSU got self-fixed when I reapplied the thermal paste. Thermal paste is not factory but the Cooler Master brand: http://www.microcenter.com/product/3...ermal_Compound

I also monitor my CPU with RealTemp that I believe you (or Midknyte) recommended a few years ago. The only times the CPU gets over 60c is once a week or once every two weeks. But even then, that is not when it freeze. It freezes most of the time during waking up or reboot and once in a while when copying large files (gb).

Update: After a reimage a couple of weeks ago, I was going through a process of elimination with software and drivers. I am at 99% of all software and drivers reinstalled after this reimage. This is day 8 that it has not frozen since the thermal paste replacement. At this point, I can almost rule out it is NOT a software (drivers) failure.

I am trying to pinpoint the fan that started to rev up and then adjust upon starting the computer or waking from sleep. I have 7 many fans in the case so it is hard to detect which one. This was probably the culprit of the problem. Most likely it is the CPU fan because that was the only fan that I dettached and reattached.

Had to be Midknyte as most of my rigs run AMD CPUs.

That cpu fan normally is the culprit. And if I may recommend a experiment, replace the case cover and keep tabs of the temps for a day or two. Do they change?

Probably me, but RealTemp hasn't been updated in a long time. Coretemp is another one.
http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/

As I said before, my system's cpu fan revs up when you first turn it on. I'm pretty sure it's the BIOS checking the fan speed at POST.

I am pretty sure it was you midknyte. It was also you who told me to upgrade from truecrypt.

As for the cpu fan, as i have shared, it have never reved up until this last thermal paste replacement. That means all of these years, I have installed it incorrectly.

Well, Truecrypt was flawed, so there wasn't much choice in the matter.

OK, I think I found the solution to the problem. So here is an update. It has been more than a week where my computer has not freezed since the replacement of the thermal paste. However, I think the root of the problem was my lack of knowledge on RAM multiplier.

I bought 24 gb of the following RAM: Patriot Viper Xtreme 12GB(3 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2000(PC3 16000) PX7312G2000ELK

When installed a few years ago, it showed up as 1066 MHz instead of 2000 MHz. Therefore, I increased the system memory multiplier to 12 to bring it to 1800 MHz. I did not realize this is actually the start of overclocking which requires the increase of vcore and vtt voltages. I was running everything else at factory setting which is 2.8 GHz. I decided to OC my system last week to 3.8 GHz. Ironically, it has solved a few problems. When copying large files, it does not go over 65c. Why? Also, could this be the reason why my eSata drive was disconnecting when copying large files? That problem seems to have also gone away.

The overclocking of my system seems to have resolved these threads:

http://discussions.virtualdr.com/sho...ort&highlight=

http://discussions.virtualdr.com/sho...tly&highlight=


Also Midknyte, RealTemp monitors the GPU. I believe CoreTemp doesn't monitor the GPU right?

RealTemp can capture the GPU temp, assuming the card is supported. Like I mentioned, RealTemp hasn't been updated in years.

CoreTemp is only CPU.

GPU-Z can also capture GPU temp.
https://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/SysInfo/GPU-Z/