how to tell what non-dos partitions are for?

Hi Gentlepeople,

Suppose you want to FDISK a machine

• What if you find a non-DOS partition, either active or not, and you don’t know why it exists?
• What if you find a small DOS partition, either active or not, and you don't know why it exists?

Whatever you find, you must find out why it is there.
So guys, here is the question.
what can it be for??
and what are the telltales?
Esteemed Doctors, you may help a lot of people with your imput.

for instance, It can be an overlay as used on older machines.
An overlay may even be a small DOS part??
(in the old days, many larger drives had the utility on them, and booted as a floppy. During the overlay creation process, a real floppy was made)
What does an overlay in older and current drives look like?
We are already aware of this article. http://support.microsoft.com/support.../Q186/0/57.ASP

whatever you see, it can also be an NTFS or Linux partition.
How do we find out?

And it can be a suspend to disk partition as found in many notebooks, and some desktops.
what are the telltales here?

The last ones I can think of, and IMHO the more dangerous to wipe, are a drive tattoo
(does that use a small partition? Where will a tattoo be found?) or a small partition where BIOS is copied onto.
once again, how do we find out?

so here it is. WHY is it there???.
and how does one find out what is in there...

there are reasons for this topic.
For instance, months ago VDr helped a guy.
at one point he found a 7 MB part after he had botched a win2000 installation and wanted back to win98.
We never learned what that little part was for, nor how it got there...

oh yeah, RTFM https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
it may not be available...

thanks,
Jaak, et al

[This message has been edited by jtdoom (edited 05-18-2001).]

Many reasons why a partition is not a dos partition. As a CNE, I always gave a 25-50MB dos partition to hold certain dos utilities and the rest was non-dos used for novell partitioning.
See if this helps any:
http://covenant-itr.hypermart.net/fdisk-2.htm Good luck.
https://discussions.virtualdr.com/im.../2001/07/2.gif


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"Darnit Jim, I'm a doctor, not a Windows Beta Tester."

[This message has been edited by Nick Grana (edited 05-17-2001).]

The only times I've encountered a non-DOS partition is on a propietary hard drive (or what USED to be one). Figured it was probably a hd diagnostic the company placed on it. (They sometimes show up as a non-dos partition). Would get rid of it only if I was doing a complete software upgrade.

Hi Nick,
how will we tell if there is a NOVELL?

Compaqs use a non-dos partition for the Setup information. So that you dont have to use the Diskettes. Very good unless you forget to put it back after deleting it, to wipe the HD clean. Only about 2mb in size....

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Please remember to let us know if it worked or not...JJ

This may not apply. So, I guess I need to test it when I'm awake.

I use PM to set a small hidden partition on my secondary, so that the drive letters don't go jumping around, while I see how much of the alphabet I can use.

What will that hidden part look like in Fdisk ?

http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~trix/...2/SSR02-03.htm
See if this helps.

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"Darnit Jim, I'm a doctor, not a Windows Beta Tester."

Not entirely sure I'm understanding what you're looking for Jaak, but this is a fairly extensive list of the type identifiers used in partition tables.

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[This message has been edited by DrMDJ (edited 05-17-2001).]

Ranish is decent. http://www.users.intercom.com/~ranish/part/
If you look at all 4 info areas, you can usually figure out what it is. Or, boot with the latest slack install cd, login as root, and type cfdisk. It'll show 150-200 types of partitions.

Thanks DrMDj

oh, it's not a guessing game.

this topic's purpose is to get imput on methods to determine what sort of parts a drive is split into, what they are for, and hopefully to be able to get that info with easy to get FREE tools.
You see, Plenty people do not have partition magic or similar third party utilities.
In many cases, fdisk and drive manufactor disk prepare tool is all they have (if that)

the main assumption is that people want to use windows 98 (maybe ME).
the underlying assumption is they want to fdisk their drive for a fresh setup.
Since there are a "few" pitfalls when one just zaps a drive, I wanted VDr's ideas on how to determine what was/is on a drive.
for instance, one does not want to wipe an overlay if one needs it, neither would one want to kill the tattoo, or whatever vital thing in there...

dodge, compaq users, how does that compaq thing look like in fdisk? fdisk /status
fdisk > y > 4 > esc> esc>

how does it look in HP, PB, NEC, portables, machines with ON NOW/sleep buttons, Emachines.

Plse keep the thoughts coming. It ain't gonna be in vain.

you may brainstorm and you may even assume the worst; like NO working OS on harddisk.

your imput is gonna help people.


[This message has been edited by jtdoom (edited 05-17-2001).]

Didn't install Novell, unix, etc, then you don't have it. If you created multiple partitions on your hard drive, then the first, with OS on it , would show active.
Boot to dos, get to c prompt and type fdisk c: Do you want large disks, say yes. Then choose option 4 for looking at the different partitions, if any, and their size and make up. Good luck.
https://discussions.virtualdr.com/im.../2001/03/1.gif He just paints them on!!

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"Darnit Jim, I'm a doctor, not a Windows Beta Tester."

Hi Nick,
ermm, yes

how will fdisk show whether there was a unix or novell if the OS is not present.

assume the worst.
the drive was used, the OS got butchered by a botched attempt to use another OS or perhaps a multiOS.
iow, a situation where detective work is needed, and where the limited info found in butter won't help much.

Jaak,

I get ya. I thought that's what you were after. Unfortunately FDISK just won't cut it in terms of being able to show what's what on the "non-standard" partition types. Something like the part.exe that Downtime showed the link to is free, and runs in dos. It can help. There are other such things available too. And in the worst case it is possible to use a small Debug script to examine the info and get the partition type number. Then armed with a list of type numbers, as in the case of the link I provided above, you can see what's there.

------------------
Bookmark your post to make it easier to find.
And remember, please post back whether the problem is resolved or not.

Heck Jaak, you've got more info on that butter thing than I even wish to know. Your only concern is if an overlay exists. Check drive mfg, other wise, wax that fool and just start afresh. If the disk is of any significant size, you can use it for many things. If it's an old tiny <500MB, and uses an overlay, throw it at the birds that crap on your car. What if it is a Novell partition? Can you use it? If not, why not just do the above and see if you can salvage anything worth your time and effort. Good luck. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/im...2001/09/11.gif If less that 500MB, this CD hold more than that for a buck.

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"Darnit Jim, I'm a doctor, not a Windows Beta Tester."

This may or may not interest you (it's from the *nix world - there is source here for FreeBSD and Linux as well as some good links) http://www.stud.uni-hannover.de/user/76201/gpart/

Quote:

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Originally posted by downtime:
Or, boot with the latest slack install cd, login as root, and type cfdisk. It'll show 150-200 types of partitions.

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Hi downtome
slack install CD..
that's gotta be linux?
which precautions do we take so as not to molest anything?

a good friend just mailed me and pointed me to this utility. http://www.aefdisk.com/
Anyone familiar with it?

I saw Ranish has changed version since I last looked at it. iow, The Beta proved stable, and got rebadged.

Keep the thoughts coming.

how does Compaq setup info on a non dos partition load? Is that little part active or non active? (I'd like to know)
If I try to explain why I wanna know, I have to use laymans Flemish...
in laymens, it's gotta be called to or call out.
also, can it be saved to floppy?

Hmmm. Thought I understood what this was about. Now I'm not sure anymore.

------------------
Bookmark your post to make it easier to find.
And remember, please post back whether the problem is resolved or not.

Jaak
On my Compaq I did the status and I found it all there. And yes, I took in the difference between advertised and actual sizes.
EDIT
It is a presario 5222 with a 8.4GB harddrive.
The bomide is the Compaq id that is on the harddisk.
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SMILE
and post back
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[This message has been edited by Train (edited 05-17-2001).]

I don't know if anyone followed the links from my first post but here is one of the ways to go.
Go to http://www.esiea.fr/public_html/Chri.../testdisk.html and download it.
Unzip the package somewhere.
Format a floppy with the basic system files. (FORMAT A: /s)
Copy the cwsdpmi.exe and the testdisk.exe files (form the extracted DOS subdirectory) to the floppy and boot with the floppy - then run the program.

If you're playing with your own system make sure you don't write anything to your disk!

The first link I gave will require a linux boot disk or similar or a compile using djgpp and most people on this board probably don't want to go that route.

There has to be a way to read non DOS data that is written into a disk. take DUG_IDE HD identifier tool for example, it can read the data written in drive about HD specifications. a util that would read all data on drive and/ or identify the coding is something I think is needed here.

This is an interesting topic Jaak, will be an addition to our to do list along with creating a boot disk for ME straight from CD ROM.

Before long the folks at microsoft will be shaking their head muttering "who are these people?" https://discussions.virtualdr.com/




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It's either that or it's into the woodchipper

Hi,

IMM,
thanks for the imput.
let's hope we never need linux booters to solve windows users' problems, but it's great to know it can be done. I bet most Linux users would know what they are doing https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
The assumption is that we needed to find out, and believe it or not, the owner may not know. (it could be a used disk or machine one bought, see)

Steve,
DUG_IDE can come in useful.
it gets the data from the drive electronics, and shows manufactor, model, and SIZE
this can be useful to determine how much space there should be, and even more useful when one wants the drive manufactor tools but don't know the make.

I too wonder if there are utilities to see data on these little parts (short of a disk editor)
I guess you mean something like "dir" for non-Dos.

this gets really interesting...
I see good info here.
keep it coming.

The TestDisk stuff I was pointing at doesn't require any Linux - just a floppy with Windows (DOS) system files.
For those with a reading knowledge of C - the source code is also included.

Here is some of the readme.
-------------------------
TestDisk 3.2 checks the partition and boot sectors of your disks.
It is very useful to recover lost partitions.
It works with :
- FAT12
- FAT16
- FAT32
- NTFS (Windows NT)
- EXT2FS (Linux)
- Linux Swap
- IBM Multiboot
- BeFS (BeOS)
- UFS (BSD)
- RaiserFS

TestDisk runs under:
- Dos, Win9x
- Linux
- FreeBSD

TestDisk is under GNU Public License.

Christophe Grenier
[email protected] http://www.esiea.fr/pulic_html/Christophe.GRENIER/
------------------------

If someone did want a floppy or CD bootable disk to use the Linux utilities then he/she could try http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/sys...ry/!INDEX.html
for the "The most Linux on one floppy." stuff. His home page is http://ftp.toms.net/rb/home.html


[This message has been edited by IMM (edited 05-17-2001).]

Hi IMM

https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
I admit I spent too much time reading other things and got confused.

your clarification is welcomed.

I remember I came across linux booters once, and assumed wrong.
A thread like this is a good eye opener.
NT, OS2, Linux, Unix, novell, Bsd, DRDos.
I also got sidetracked by something called HPFS. I never realised there are so many file systems...
Jeesh.

thanks for the imput.
it will help people.

Hi, Jaak. You just hit the q for quit to exit without changing anything. Maybe it's only 90 or 100, I don't remember exactly. I know linux native is 83 and swap is 82 and there are more than that listed. Ranish shows many partition types,including novell, and I think all I've seen listed in this thread. It does take some getting used to, the more I understand about hdds, the easier ranish is to understand, because it lists everything. Cylinders, heads, sectors, partition types, mbr, code. Partition Magic is for those who don't want to have to understand the real basics, good for windows, but isn't nearly as powerful. Testdisk is also a very good tool, as is mbrwork. The downside of cfdisk is it doesn't fit on a floppy, I think it needs about 4 megs, but you can create all those partition types with it.

Hi downtime.
thanks for the additional info.

You also jogged my memory about MBRWORK...
https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ Kewl https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Dear Virtual Knights,

have you had a Luke at this thread?

Hi Obe Wan,
and welcome to the board
thanks for the link,
no, hadn't seen it.
has relevant info in there, tho.
let's hope we hear about the outcome
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edit>> found this info a couple days back
Didn't find back that thread just now, but I had copied a message posted in it.
I'll shamelessly copy it here.
it believe it was TRAIN who posted this...
https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Quote:

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If it is a Compaq.

Thank you for writing to Compaq Support Services.

Regarding your inquiry, please note that Compaq does not support hard disk drive upgrades for Presario desktops, nor do we have any BIOS or ROM updates to increase the size of supported hard drives.

It is possible to go to a computer dealer or repair shop in your area and see what third-party equipment they have that may be compatible with your computer. However, Compaq does not test third-party hardware or software and cannot support such a course of action.

Also note that Quick Restore disk will not work after replacing harddrive. If you cannot reinstall the original Compaq hard disk, you need to prepare the new hard disk for QuickRestore. Please be advised that this may not work for all hard disks and you may have unpredictable results for non-Compaq hardware. During the manufacturing process, an identification number (BOMID) is written to the UIA area of the hard disk. The BOMID identifies the model of the computer in which the hard disk is installed. Replacement hard disks do not contain this information. Therefore, when using QuickRestore on a Compaq Presario computer that contains a replacement hard disk, the QuickRestore program will be unable to identify the model of the computer.

SOLUTION
Follow the steps below to write the BOMID to the UIA area of the new hard disk:

1. Insert the QuickRestore diskette (when applicable) and CD into the appropriate drives, and then restart the computer.

NOTE: If a QuickRestore boot diskette is not included with the QuickRestore kit, you can create this diskette from the BOOTDISK subdirectory on the QuickRestore CD.

2. At the initial screen (Program Language Selection), select "Exit" from theQuickRestore utility.
3. At the A:\> prompt, type uiabomwr_xxx (where xxx is the BOMID of the computer), and then press Enter.

EXAMPLE: A:\uiabomwr 201 would store the 201 BOMID (for a Compaq Presario model 8772) into the UIA area of the hard disk.

If the BOMID fails, then your new hard disk does not support the ability to have the BOMID written to it. You cannot run QuickRestore without the BOMID. You should take the computer to a local Compaq Authorized Service Center to have a replacement hard disk installed that supports QuickRestore. This would require the original spare part to be installed.

NOTE: On future versions of QuickRestore CDs, the uiabomwr.exe utility will be located in the TOOLS directory of the QuickRestore CD.


Regards,
Compaq Consumer E-Services
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SMILE
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[This message has been edited by jtdoom (edited 06-16-2001).]