[XP] This computer cannot be cooled

P4 3GHZ, Intel Board, 3 case fans. It had a generic HS/F, but even after using a better Arctic Cooling fan, I get the same results.

Both Bios, Everest and Intel Active Monitor have the processor running at the high 50's when idle. Under heavy load, it gets to the 70's. With the side cover off and an industrial fan blowing on it, it gets to the mid 60's. The customer has told me that the computer freezes while watching a movie. The Board by the way, runs hot too at 47 and 53 (zone 1 & 2 respectively) when idle.

I've cleaned the thermal paste off and put a new coat with no difference whatsoever.

Short of trying water cooling, is there anything else that can be done? Or is this computer doomed to stay overheated?

Where are you ruinning this computer, Usil? Out in the middle of the Sinai? What is your room temperature? If the room thermostat is set for "London Broil", then it is not surprising that cool air isn't gettting to the interior of the case to cool things down. What is the configuration of the case fans? Which ones are blowing in and which ones are blowing out? How much thermal paste did you put on the chip/hsf? Too much or too little and you will overheat the cpu. P4's tend to run hot, but you can definitely get them cooler than what you are experiencing.

LOL, it's not the Sinai, but my lab. It's not cold in there, but its not too hot. I have a couple of industrial fans cooling it down.
I did manage to get it to stay at around 60 degrees even under heavy load with an industrial fan blowing on the inside with the cover off. This of course is not a satisfactory solution.
As far as the thermal paste is concerned, I reapplied it twice. The first time, I put a little too much. I compensated for it the second time. But that has not made a difference.

I'm starting to think that the this cannot be resolved without some serious cooling in there, which would be worth more than the computer itself. The thing that boggles me though, is what is causing it to run so hot? Could a faulty motherboard or processor make it overheat?

By the way, nice rig!!!

Try lapping the hsf and /or the IHS.

Is the fan speed limited in the BIOS?

What kind of rpm's does it say in computer health?

Crunchie, what do you mean by lapping?

Train, there is only one fan option in BIOS and thats to turn it on when the temps are low or to keep it running at slow speeds when the temps are low. Neither of them make a difference. It's still running at 60 when idle.
The fan is running at 2200 RPM when idle.

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary - lapping
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lapping

Quote:

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5 a: to dress, smooth, or polish (as a metal surface) to a high degree of refinement or accuracy b: to shape or fit by working two surfaces together with or without abrasives until a very close fit is produced

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Google search: cpu lapping
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search

Thanks, I had a read about lapping. Looks way beyond my pay grade :-D

Not the worth the risk of ruining the processor.

Thanks anyway. Looks like I'll return this one unsolved.

I lapped my former Q6600 and my current 9450....really nothing to it. All you are doing is removing the super thin tin (say that 3 times real fast) chip surface to expose the copper beneath. No need to get an absolute mirror finish as some people have touted and it won't hurt the processor as long as you take reasonable care (don't use an electric sander in other words). It might help to bring down those temps a little if you feel it is worth it.

HOWSOMEVER....I am suspecting that board may be defective. It certainly is old enough to be going downhill (but...I could say the same about myself for that matter). Right about now (taking into account the time zone differences of course) I would be advising your customer that it may be time to replace the system.

If it were my own computer, I'd consider it. But doing work like that, I'd have to charge half of the price of a new computer. It wouldn't be worth it for them.

There has been an interesting development though. I put in a P4 2.6GHz CPU, and it is idling at around 48 and 55 under some serious heat. That tells me the processor might be damaged. Can someone concur?

Check the CPU voltage Uri - it has a massive effect on temp. The power increases with the square of the voltage.

There are two readings, neither of which I am very familiar with.
CPU Core - 1.0318
CPU I/O (1.5 V) - 1.471

What does this tell you Nick?

Well I would have said that "CPU Core" was the one, most BIOSes call it "Vcore". However, no 3GHz P4 has a Vcore in that range, whereas the "CPU I/O" reading is in the right ballpark. I have no idea what is meant by "CPU I/O" though :confused:

Do you know the exact model of Pentium?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SuperSparks

Well I would have said that "CPU Core" was the one, most BIOSes call it "Vcore". However, no 3GHz P4 has a Vcore in that range, whereas the "CPU I/O" reading is in the right ballpark. I have no idea what is meant by "CPU I/O" though :confused:

Do you know the exact model of Pentium?

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According to Everest, it's a P4 530 3.0GHz.

BIOS has no info whatsoever. I got the voltages from the Intel Monitor program.

Shouldn't a P4 530 be in a 775 socket??? :confused:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by usil

Shouldn't a P4 530 be in a 775 socket??? :confused:

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That's big "Roger" there, Ghostrider....

Don't tell me....someone superglued that CPU into a 478 socket?

Intel P4 LGA775

Check and post the codes on the cpu.
Seems it can be either

Pentium 4 3.06G MMX SSE SSE2
(Northwood)

or a

Pentium 4 3.0E MMX SSE SSE2 SSE3
(Prescott)

by what you have posted so far.

Here are the details from Everest:

Quote:

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--------[ CPU ]---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CPU Properties:
CPU Type Intel Pentium 4 530, 3000 MHz (15 x 200)
CPU Alias Prescott
CPU Stepping D0
Instruction Set x86, MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3
Original Clock 3000 MHz
Min / Max CPU Multiplier 14x / 15x
Engineering Sample No
L1 Trace Cache 12K Instructions
L1 Data Cache 16 KB
L2 Cache 1 MB (On-Die, ECC, ATC, Full-Speed)

Multi CPU:
Motherboard ID Springdale-G
CPU #0 Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz, 2992 MHz
CPU #1 Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz, 2992 MHz

CPU Physical Info:
Package Type 478 Pin uPGA
Package Size 3.50 cm x 3.50 cm
Transistors 125 million
Process Technology 7M, 90 nm, CMOS, Cu, Low-K Inter-Layer, High-K Gate, Strained Si
Die Size 112 mm2
Core Voltage 1.4 V
I/O Voltage 1.4 V
Typical Power 89 - 103 W (depending on clock speed)
Maximum Power 109 - 127 W (depending on clock speed)

CPU Manufacturer:
Company Name Intel Corporation
Product Information http://www.intel.com/products/browse/processor.htm

CPU Utilization:
CPU #1 / HTT Unit #1 81 %
CPU #1 / HTT Unit #2 38 %


--------[ CPUID ]-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CPUID Properties:
CPUID Manufacturer GenuineIntel
CPUID CPU Name Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
CPUID Revision 00000F34h
IA Brand ID 00h (Unknown)
Platform ID 0Fh (Socket 478)
IA CPU Serial Number Unknown
Microcode Update Revision 17
HTT / CMP Units 2 / 1

Instruction Set:
64-bit x86 Extension (AMD64, EM64T) Not Supported
Alternate Instruction Set Not Supported
AMD 3DNow! Not Supported
AMD 3DNow! Professional Not Supported
AMD Enhanced 3DNow! Not Supported
AMD Extended MMX Not Supported
Cyrix Extended MMX Not Supported
IA-64 Not Supported
IA MMX Supported
IA SSE Supported
IA SSE 2 Supported
IA SSE 3 Supported
CLFLUSH Instruction Supported
CMPXCHG8B Instruction Supported
CMPXCHG16B Instruction Not Supported
Conditional Move Instruction Supported
FEMMS Instruction Not Supported
MONITOR / MWAIT Instruction Supported
RDTSCP Instruction Not Supported
SYSCALL / SYSRET Instruction Not Supported
SYSENTER / SYSEXIT Instruction Supported

Security Features:
Advanced Cryptography Engine (ACE) Not Supported
Data Execution Prevention (DEP, NX, EDB) Not Supported
Hardware Random Number Generator (RNG) Not Supported
Montgomery Multiplier & Hash Engine Not Supported
Processor Serial Number (PSN) Not Supported

Power Management Features:
Automatic Clock Control Supported
Enhanced Halt State (C1E) Not Supported
Enhanced SpeedStep Technology (EIST, ESS) Not Supported
Frequency ID Control Not Supported
LongRun Not Supported
LongRun Table Interface Not Supported
PowerSaver 1.0 Not Supported
PowerSaver 2.0 Not Supported
PowerSaver 3.0 Not Supported
Processor Duty Cycle Control Supported
Software Thermal Control Not Supported
Temperature Sensing Diode Not Supported
Thermal Monitor 1 Supported
Thermal Monitor 2 Not Supported
Thermal Monitoring Not Supported
Thermal Trip Not Supported
Voltage ID Control Not Supported

CPUID Features:
36-bit Page Size Extension Supported
CPL Qualified Debug Store Supported
Debug Trace Store Supported
Debugging Extension Supported
Fast Save & Restore Supported
Hyper-Threading Technology Supported
L1 Context ID Supported
Local APIC On Chip Supported
Machine-Check Architecture Supported
Machine-Check Exception Supported
Memory Type Range Registers Supported
Model Specific Registers Supported
Page Attribute Table Supported
Page Global Extension Supported
Page Size Extension Supported
Pending Break Event Supported
Physical Address Extension Supported
Self-Snoop Supported
Time Stamp Counter Supported
Virtual Machine Extensions Not Supported
Virtual Mode Extension Supported

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It's a Prescott, and definitely a 478 but no mention of it being an Extreme edition. :confused:

I realize that the CPU utilization is high, but it's not normally like that, so it's not the cause for it over heating.

So assuming that the info is correct, I'm still at a loss as to why it's overheating. Could the processor be damaged? I've never come across a bad processor in my years as a technician (not talking about bent pins) so I can't say for sure. Any opinions?

By the way, I haven't been able to find any solid info on the 530 processor on the intel site. It's not listed here at all!
Here however, it is listed as a 775 socket!!!
:eek: :confused:

Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 Processor on 90 nm Process Specification Update (pdf)
http://www.intel.com/Assets/PDF/specupdate/302352.pdf

Page 21 "Figure 1" shows it in a "478-pin package".

"Figure 2" through "Figure 5" (continues on page 22) show it in a "775-Land LGA Package":

http://www.SpywareDrGuide.com/Virtua...pdf_p21(1).jpg

http://www.SpywareDrGuide.com/Virtua...pdf_p22(1).jpg

Google search: site:intel.com "Pentium 4" 530 0f34h

There is no mention there of the 530 also being a 478 socket as far as I can see.
What does all this mean? Could Everest be wrong?

"Figure 1" ?

Download CPU-z and see what comes up.
Or you can take the HS off and get the numbers from the IHS and do a search.

Maybe I am overlooking something, but figure 1 only says it's a P4 90nm in a 478 socket processor. It doesn't say it's a 3GHz/530 processor as far as I can see.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crunchie

Download CPU-z and see what comes up.
Or you can take the HS off and get the numbers from the IHS and do a search.

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I've been avoiding it cause I'm lazy, and I've taken it out so many times now, but I guess I have no choice. I'll do it and report back.

Here's the info:

3.00ghz/1m/800
SL7E4 Malay
L436B314

M449A477
1015

And here it is...
http://processorfinder.intel.com/det...px?sSpec=SL7E4

So how do I cool this damn thing down? :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by usil

And here it is...
http://processorfinder.intel.com/det...px?sSpec=SL7E4

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Bingo:

Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 Processor
Package Type: 478 pin
Manufacturing Technology: 90 nm

:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by usil

So how do I cool this damn thing down? :D

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Thermal Specification: 69.1°C

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SpywareDr

Thermal Specification: 69.1°C

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That's the maximum, right?

Yep. Whilst you have the HS off, check that it is dead flat. If you have some wet & dry, place a sheet on a mirror or similar, then put the HS on it and move it in a figure of 8. It will show almost immediately if the whole surface is contacting.
A convex or concave contact area is obviously undesirable.

Well I just spoke to the customer and explained the situation. Seems she might want to buy new (used) processor.

No good doing that if the hs is not flat.

It's not a HS problem, because I've tried a different HS which didn't make a difference, and I tried another processor which did.

Well....it sounds like a bad processor to me. Perhaps the core is beginning to blow.

Use it for a hot plate. As the expression goes, "When God gives you salmon, make salmonella.":D