can'tuse + 128mb sdram - bios settings?

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March 30th, 2007, 06:17 PM
^dAvEy^

can'tuse + 128mb sdram - bios settings?

Greetings,
I"m trying to use all the ram I cam with this old system, but I'm not being able to use ram together to do so. I'm wondering if I might have either a ram compatibility issue or maybe a bios setting that needs adjusting, perhaps?

From the info below, any red flags straight-away, people, as to why this little old sytem will only seem to use up to 128mb of SDRAM (168/non)?
It doesn't seem to matter what combo of ram I use. For example, it will run a 128mb stick, but it will not show using any more that is added, such as 1 or 2 stickes of 64mb.

However, the same 2 sticks of 64 together on their own will also be used as 128mb. Likelwise, any conbos I have will add ram except with the 128mb stick.

I also have a 256mb stick that I'm running on a similar machine. That stick on this machine will ALSO only show as using 128mb, and none more can be added that I've tried.

However, that 256mb stick runs as 256mb and all other of my sticks run fine and together on the other machine, which rules out bad ram, by my math.

Below are specks on the machine in question including indication of the current 256mb ram total in slots (slot0-2, 128+64+64), while showing also only 128mb installed memory.

Windows 98 SE (build 4.10.2222)
400 megahertz AMD K6 3D
64 kilobyte primary memory cache
Board: ASUSTeK Computer INC. P5A-B REV 1.XX
Bus Clock: 100 megahertz
BIOS: Award Software, Inc. 4.51PG 04/16/99
128 Megabytes Installed Memory
Slot '0' has 128 MB
Slot '1' has 64 MB
Slot '2' has 64 MB
Insights or comments appreciated!
Cheers,
March 30th, 2007, 06:48 PM
Train

Open MSCONFIG, on the General tab click the Advance Button, check to see if the ram is limited in there.

I know there is one in there, but to LAZY to boot 98 up to see what it is. :) :)
March 30th, 2007, 07:26 PM
^dAvEy^

Hi Train,
Nice to see you, bud.
checked and "limit ram to" option is unchecked and greyed out such that limit setting is not presently an option.
March 30th, 2007, 08:01 PM
pmckinnie

davey,

Most likely you will have to flash the BIOS to fix the problem. You should be able to find theBIOS update on the net by going to the BIOS manufactors.

This can be dangerious but if done right will fix your problem. I flashed the BIOS of my other PC last week and it was easy. Some of the manufactors have developed a way to flash the BIOS from within windows. Makes it much easier to do.

gl

cheers mac
March 30th, 2007, 10:25 PM
lgbpop

You might find this old review interesting. It addresses the RAM situation after a fashion, as well as suggested jumper settings (of which that mobo has plenty).
March 30th, 2007, 10:50 PM
^dAvEy^

thanks for the input, gang.

I'd be willing to flash bios once I know bios or other settings aren't the culprit.
In other words, I don't want to fix something unless it's broke ;o)

Jumpber settings aren't clear to me from the article given, although does give some reasoning for why I can't go above 128mb sdram.

Maybe the settings are given and just beyond my tech-hood.
Any further suggestions as to what settings I might check, try and where?

Thanks,
March 30th, 2007, 11:03 PM
Train

Get the manual
Hot links
ASUS
http://dlsvr01.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/...b/p5ab-107.pdf

Another source I found.
http://library.mobrien.com:2031/down...B/p5ab-107.pdf

Asus still has all the drivers and stuff for that mobo.
http://support.asus.com/download/dow...Language=en-us

Just plug the P5A-B in the LEFT search .
March 30th, 2007, 11:26 PM
^dAvEy^

manual in hand...

Train, bud, thanks for the links, but I have had the manual since I installed USB ports 4 years ago or so!
If the info on settings for higher RAM is there, I just don't know enough for what I'm looking for :confused: :eek:
March 30th, 2007, 11:46 PM
PC Solutions

DONT FLASH THE BIOS!

The Asus P5A-B botherboard is a picky beast with memory.
Believe me, I know, I used to have one!

If I recall correctly you cannot mix single and double sided memory chips.
Are yours single or double sided?

Also, if I recall correctly only the double sided chips will work with the ASUS P5 A-B motherboard. It has been a long time. dont quote me on that one!
March 31st, 2007, 12:54 AM
^dAvEy^

any up to 128mb

How do you tell single vs double sided sticks - if there's chips on one or both sides? I don't think that's it...

Anyhow, moot point, really, as each and every stick I have (12+ sticks, 32mb-256mb, various brands) will run on this pc, but will neverthelss only use up to 128mb no matter what stick or combo is used at a time or how it's distributed in the 3 slots.

So, oddly enough, I don't find it fussy at all with ram...just a pain!
Other than this issue, this pc has been running solid on same 98se install and 96mb sdram since 2000 (last yr of millenium)! Ir'sa just a pain that it could be even more efficient and a quicker with more ram.

thanks
March 31st, 2007, 10:42 AM
Train

Actually, although it depends on the mobo and cpu combination, that mobo is old enough that anything over 128 could actually slow it down. :(
And for some 96MB of ram was the sweet spot.

Now to speed it up.

Here's the PowerfulPC reg hack:

- - - -
REGEDIT4

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\FS Templates\Powerful]
@="Powerful PC"
"NameCache"=hex:a0,0f,00,00
"PathCache"=hex:80,00,00,00
- - - -

Copy everything between (not including) the ---- lines into Notepad. Save and rename the file as PowerfulPC.reg, right-click on it and select "Merge". Then go to Performance>File System>Hard Disk>Typical Role and select Powerful PC. Reboot the machine.

Now go in and set the minmum Virtual Memort to 250MB and let windows set the maximum.

Yes, I still use those settings in 98SE. And might want to look for the MaxCache reg hack instead of using PowerfulPC. It gave you 3 choices.

Might want to read this old thread.
http://discussions.virtualdr.com/sho...ght=PowerfulPC
March 31st, 2007, 07:54 PM
^dAvEy^

sweet spot 96mb

Well, that might just be shedding some light on why the machine came to me with 96mb sdram in the first place, Train!
I will do the read, try a hack and post on back ;)
Thanks,
April 1st, 2007, 12:37 AM
Train

It well could have been the cost of ram back then too. $150 for 64MB was steep.
April 1st, 2007, 07:21 PM
Eeyore

I don't know if it is applicable. But I'll throw it in FYI. My older TYAN Tomcats are advertised to support up to 512mb ram. So I bought 8 sticks of 64mb ram. They wouldn't work in my Tomcat 2 board. But they would work in my Tomcat 3 and 4 boards. The reason was the Tomcat 2 has 256kb cache, which would only support up to 32mb per slot. So the max total was 256mb. And the 64mb ram was not usable. The Tomcat 3 and 4 had 512kb Cache. So they would allow the maximum to be used. You may be bucking against the same type of limitations.

------------------
My
Two Cents
Dennis
Visit Politalk
April 2nd, 2007, 01:32 PM
^dAvEy^

Good point on the cost of RAM back in the day, Train...
fortunately for me, I've never had to pay for it because by the time I thought to increase it, it was sitting in p2 and the like machines on the side of the road!

Eeyore, I"m not savy enough to know how cache memory relates to ram, or really even what cache memory is, beyond knowing that this AMD K6 3D apparently had 64 kilobyte primary memory cache, and that each of the three DIM slots will run up to 128 mb of ram (ie from 1-128mb stick or 1-256mb stick) and will add the ram from the slots together too, up to 128mb.

Y'all get this better than I, but if I knew what the following (source kindly provided by lgbpop) meant, wouldn't it be providing the reason for the problem, or is refering t something else? :eek:

The motherboard has 512K of 5 ns cache'. There are three, 168-Pin DIMM sockets on the board which can support up to 768 MB; however, the chipset/cache' limits the amount of memory which can be cached to 128 MB. 33 Mhz UDMA is supported.

Thanks,
April 2nd, 2007, 03:29 PM
Eeyore

Quote:

Originally Posted by ^dAvEy^

Eeyore, I"m not savy enough to know how cache memory relates to ram, or really even what cache memory is, beyond knowing that this AMD K6 3D apparently had 64 kilobyte primary memory cache, and that each of the three DIM slots will run up to 128 mb of ram (ie from 1-128mb stick or 1-256mb stick) and will add the ram from the slots together too, up to 128mb.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ^dAvEy^

[I]The motherboard has 512K of 5 ns cache'.

It may be what I referred to. In the manual on page 8, L2 Cache is listed as "512/1mb". You apparently have 512kb installed. That probably gives each slot a 128mb capacity. If you upgrade to 1mb cache, you would have the full 256mb per slot capacity.

Apparently the cache provides a number of addresses for the memory to use. The more cache, the more addresses and thus the ability to handle more memory.

------------------
My
Two Cents
Dennis
Visit Politalk
April 5th, 2007, 09:47 AM
craigb93

Edit your System.ini file to Add the section below.

[vcache]
MaxFileCache=524288

Save & reboot
April 5th, 2007, 04:12 PM
Eeyore

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigb93

Edit your System.ini file to Add the section below.

[vcache]
MaxFileCache=524288

Save & reboot

Craig, this is a system problem, not a Windows problem. If the Motherboard can't see the memory, Windows can't see it either.

------------------
My
Two Cents
Dennis
Visit Politalk
April 5th, 2007, 04:58 PM
Robert M

Before changing the RAM sticks, check the motherboard documentation for the proper jumper settings. For example: in your case, you have a 128 MB in the first slot and then you want the other two slots to accept a 64 MB chip.
First see if this is possible, and then set the jumpers. I assume you bought the right type of memory. By the way, how many memory slots are available altogether? Is there a slot zero?

After properly setting the jumpers and installing the RAM sticks, enter the BIOS/CMOS setup and perform a save and exit.

See if all of your RAM memory is listed on the black screen when starting up.
If not, there might be an improper setting.

512 KB of 5 NS cache refers to the size of the Level 2 Static RAM's cache chip(s) capacity. In the past this static RAM was located on the motherboard in a seperate chip(s), but now with the modern CPU's, it is located on the Microprocessor itself usually. As far as I know it has nothing to do with the amount of installed RAM.

For example: the amount of RAM memory installed is independent of the amount Static RAM available, and one does not affect the size of the other.
Static RAM differs from regular RAM in its access speed (much faster).

If the 64 MB chips have a slower maximum access speed than the 128 MB the motherboard BIOS/CMOS settings for memory access speed may need to be adjusted.
April 6th, 2007, 11:10 AM
Train

Robert M.
How about a link to a motherboad manual that has that.
I'd like to read it.
April 6th, 2007, 12:17 PM
craigb93

I have both a TX-97 and a P5S-B.
The P5A-B is the same era.
Both of mine needed a reflash of the BIOS w/ a patched version to support increased memory. The link escapes me but a google should pull it out.
The TX-97 currently uses 384 KB and the P5S-B, 512 KB.
Rereading the OP I see this is probably a necessary first step before applying my Vcache edit.
April 6th, 2007, 05:49 PM
Train

Compaq did that to the BIOS back then also.
April 7th, 2007, 01:35 AM
^dAvEy^

Thanks for all the input, gang.
I'm sorry I haven't been able to get back in here and reply until now, but here goes!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eeyore

Apparently the cache provides a number of addresses for the memory to use. The more cache, the more addresses and thus the ability to handle more memory.

Eeyore, that may all be, but it's practically beyond me. :confused:

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigb93

Edit your System.ini file to Add the section below.
[vcache]
MaxFileCache=524288
Save & reboot

- craigb93, I'm holding off on this for now, as Eeyore and yourself suggest.
- fyi, currently, my system.ini reads:
[vcache]
MaxCacheFile=400000

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigb93

...TX-97 andP5S-B...The P5A-B is the same era.
Both of mine needed a reflash of the BIOS w/ a patched version to support increased memory. The link escapes me...
The TX-97 currently uses 384 KB and the P5S-B, 512 KB

- would such a "patched version" be among the ASUS P5A-B downloads here?
Download > Motherboard> P5A-B
- I"m thinking that's a simple typo (unless you were refering to 512kb Level2 cache SRAM, as I see in manual), but 512mb ram - Now THAT'S what I'm talkin about! In fact, manual says it can use up to 768mb sdram.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eeyore

Craig, this is a system problem, not a Windows problem. If the Motherboard can't see the memory, Windows can't see it either.

- Isn't it significant that BELARC reports (see below) that SOMETHING sees 128mb installed memory, while SOMETHING ELSE acknowledges 256mb total installed memory (128+64+64))?
- IOW, Im not sure which is Windows and which is System, but does this still suggest that neither the mobo nor Windows sees 256mb installed?
- FROM BELARC REPORT:
128 Megabytes Installed Memory
Slot '0' has 128 MB
Slot '1' has 64 MB
Slot '2' has 64 MB

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert M

First see if this is possible, and then set the jumpers. I assume you bought the right type of memory. By the way, how many memory slots are available altogether? Is there a slot zero?
----
If the 64 MB chips have a slower maximum access speed than the 128 MB the motherboard BIOS/CMOS settings for memory access speed may need to be adjusted.

- The jumpers have not been touched since I got the pc 7 years ago and I have no idea how to adjust their settings in relation to SDRAM specs.
- I have the right type of SDRAM, yes.
- 3 DIMM slots
- Yes, see above: BELARC reports Slots 0.1 & 2
- I was wondering about how "memory speed setup is recommended through SDRAM configuration under chipset features setup in Bios", but I'm not at all sure what those settings should be other than the default of (By SPD).

Oh, and Train, I"m still looking forward to getting to that hack ;)
Thanks so much, guys....you're all flying way over my melon here! :eek:
April 7th, 2007, 06:26 AM
104456

I think the article posted already by lgbpop states the problem which is purely down to poor design by the manufacturer

Quote:

The motherboard has 512K of 5 ns cache'. There are three, 168-Pin DIMM sockets on the board which can support up to 768 MB; however, the chipset/cache' limits the amount of memory which can be cached to 128 MB.

So no manner of hacking the bios or altering of jumpers is going to resolve the issue as there is just not enough onboard cache to "see" [address] any memory above 128MB.

EDIT: More info onboard jumpers etc here
http://www.hardwarezone.com/reviews/mb/p5a/p5a.htm

Quote:

Featuring 3 DIMM slots and a 5/2/1 expansion slot ATX design, the ASUS P5A is able to fit comfortably into many conventional casings available in the market. The general layout of the board is neat and jumpers are easily located on the right side of the board. The 3 DIMM slots means that you are able to fit a total of 768MB of ram onboard, however be aware that only the first 128MB of RAM will be cached. This is because of the limitations of the current design of the ALi Aladdin V Chipset
April 9th, 2007, 07:53 PM
Robert M

Dave
You may have to get a 128 MB chip to expand your memory to 256 MB.

Since your motherboard has only three slots for RAM, you probably cannot utilize a 64 MB chip in slot 1. Sometimes these RAM chips need to be paired with a chip of the same capacity... at least in the first two RAM slots.

For example I think you could install:
128 MB in slot 0
and also 128 MB in slot 1, but not a 64MB

The 64 MB chip may be usable in the last slot after you fill the first two with like capacities but not sure.

Pmckinnie,
Usually a BIOS flash is not necessary to utilize all the RAM memory a motherboard was designed for. A motherboard company wouldn't last long if you could not use the full RAM capacity stated in the motherboard's specifications.