Upgrade Version?

I'm a little confused, I'm aware of this thread http://discussions.virtualdr.com/sho...d.php?t=216245 but I thought I'd start another.

My confusion lies in installing XP first, before I upgrade. I have a retail version of XP which I'd like to keep on another machine, I also have Win2k. Now if I install my XP and then upgrade to Vista, I think this will mean I'll lose my XP license so I'll upgrade from W2K, hopefully without problem.

My questions are

1 If I upgrade from XP to Vista will I definately lose the license for XP.

2 Will I be able to do a clean install if I have to install W2K or XP first, because I wouldn't want any rubbish left behind.

Hope that makes some sense

You will lose your licence to carry on using the OS that you upgrade from, whether it is XP or 2000, that has always been the case. The difference with XP is that MS are in a position to enforce it because of product activation / validation. If you want to continue using WinXP and you aren't currently using Win2000, then upgrading from W2K is the way to go.

Yes, you can do a clean install from an Upgarde disc. Even if you did an upgrade install, it is not done in the way that it used to be - it takes note of your settings and installked apps, and then does a complete new install of Vista. So the old caveats of never doing an upgrade install shouldn't apply with Vista. Of course only time will tell how well this new way of upgrading actually works in practice.

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Originally Posted by SuperSparks

Yes, you can do a clean install from an Upgarde disc. Even if you did an upgrade install, it is not done in the way that it used to be - it takes note of your settings and installked apps, and then does a complete new install of Vista. So the old caveats of never doing an upgrade install shouldn't apply with Vista. Of course only time will tell how well this new way of upgrading actually works in practice.

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Thanks, but any idea what happens to the previous Windows install, will you be able to delete it. Or better still will you be able to delete it before the install by deleting the partition, like you can with XP.

A couple of other thought have come to my little brain.

1 If you upgrade from XP, you lose your license for it. How will you be able to do another install later on, as you will not be able to activate XP?

2 Is it true that if you upgrade from an OEM version of XP with a retail disk, then your Vista becomes OEM also.


So many questions, such little time:D

My understanding is that the old install of Windows gets deleted in any case, but I could be wrong about that, as none of us had Upgrade discs for beta testing. But the sure-fire way of doing things is to run Setup from within the OS you are upgrading from, but then installing Vista to a different clean partition. Thyen you can wipe the original OS afterwards.

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If you upgrade from XP, you lose your license for it. How will you be able to do another install later on, as you will not be able to activate XP?

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That is a very good question, I would like to know the answer to that one myself. I would suggest that a disk iumage using TrueImage or Ghost would be a good plan before upgrading to Vista, at least until we know with certainty what the score is.

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Is it true that if you upgrade from an OEM version of XP with a retail disk, then your Vista becomes OEM also.

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Not exactly, but I would say that I don't see the point of using an Upgrade disc in conjunction with an OEM CD, for the simple reason that you can never transfer the OEM version to another PC. So in that situation, an OEM version of Vista, which is a good bit cheaper, would make more sense.

Philgo--Thought this might be a good reference for you
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pro...radepaths.mspx
Note that a clean install is required from Win2000.

Thanks Welshjim, I've seen that and it didn't really answer my questions, although there's a mention of a clean install it doesn't go into details.

All the extra problems that Microsoft has given us will not help their sales at all, I'm not going to rush out and buy it until I'm happy, bet I'm not the only one.

Philgo--One of the better discussions of "clean installation"
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html
Starting from Win2000 you will not have the upgrade option.
The good thing about a clean install is that your Harddrive and Registry are nice and clean. The bad thing is that you will wipe all third party programs and personal data, so will have to install them from backup, installation programs/CD's, etc.
In any event do not forget to go to Windows Update.

Here is a good thread. Long but worth the read. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17743771

Welshjim, thanks but I am just concerned about the type of clean install you get with Vista has Microsoft want you to install XP/2K first. I've done thousands of installs of XP and when using the upgrade disk all that was needed was to show your entitlement by inserting the disk during install. I'm concerned that by upgrading with a O/S still on there may leave unwanted files and registry entries. I've read that the Vista install creates a windows old folder but I'm still concerned.

squid13, thanks it looks like there's going to be lots of arguimg about this subject.

Vista does not upgrade in the same way as previous versions did. It takes note of the settings and installed apps of the old OS, but then does a clean install of Vista (I think it has to because Vista is installed from an image on the DVD). I don't think the old power users caveat of never doing an upgrade install will apply to Vista, though only time will tell I suppose.

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Originally Posted by SuperSparks

Vista does not upgrade in the same way as previous versions did. It takes note of the settings and installed apps of the old OS, but then does a clean install of Vista (I think it has to because Vista is installed from an image on the DVD). I don't think the old power users caveat of never doing an upgrade install will apply to Vista, though only time will tell I suppose.

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Yes, I've read that also, suppose I'm just not sure at the moment. My son's visiting America soon, now there's a temptation.

I would, without hesitation. It's exactly the same Windows as you'd buy over here.

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Originally Posted by SuperSparks

I would, without hesitation. It's exactly the same Windows as you'd buy over here.

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Thanks, not sure what's involved though, have to do some research, believe there's a very small limit on what can be brought back:(

It might be work contacting HMRC, as I suspect that even if you pay duty, it is still going to be a heck of a lot cheaper than the UK price.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/

Have him buy it here and mail it to you. On the USPS Customs Form 2976 that he'll have to fill out, he can declare it as a gift and put a nominal value on it. It takes about a week to get it via Global Priority Mail.

Actually, that's not a bad idea. MS send me software from time to time and they usually list its value at $0.20 on the customs form IIRC (ie the nominal value of the CD itself).

Thanks guys, that's a brilliant idea.

It's worth checking with Customs anyway -- you might be able to get away with more than you think. I can get anything under AU$1000 worth posted to me without paying duty (although if the same person/company sends me three $500 packages within a week or two they reserve the right to treat them as one shipment).

Thanks Tuttle, very interesting.

My son's trip to the US is not until May, thought to myself I can wait that long, no problem. Went food shopping with my wife this morning, got a bit bored and went into Currys, next thing I know I was walking out with the Home Premium Upgrade edition, that box was so cute I couldn't resist.

Although I'm entitled to the upgrade edition, I'm going to try the install twice trick and see if it works. Back later (I hope) after an intensive backup and install.

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next thing I know I was walking out with the Home Premium Upgrade edition, that box was so cute I couldn't resist.

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Just can't resist a pretty face, can you!:D

Impulse buyer :D :D

I've been reading that installing the upgrade versions over themselves has been deliberately programmed in to help overcome those times when conventional upgrades fail, so I think it will work just fine. But I'd like to hear how you get on with it.

I know I'm just so weak :D

Copied my DVD and used it, will put original away.

Done my backup in case I nuked my other partitions.

Deleted my C: partition with partition manager although I could have done this from the upgrade DVD.

Done my first install, this went without hitch but there was some very long pauses at the start, thought something was going wrong but I'm there. I read somewhere that you don't need to actually re-install and you can just change the product key. Gave that a go and I was refused with the message along the lines of "This product key can only be used for upgrades and not clean installs.

I'm now going for the second install from within Vista.

Second install went without hitch, a bit faster methinks, worth noting that there was no option to delete partition etc. like there was with the first install.

Once finished I was only given 3 days before automatic activation, decided to activate immediately and the next window said I had 30 days. Anyway activation went without hitch and I now have a 8.09GB folder called "windows.old" which I will now delete.

If I'm now a criminal then please visit me in Jail, or I can use my get out of jail free card (Win2K CD).

Good to hear that it went OK :)

I don't think there are any legal issues with doing it that way, as long as you have a qualifying OS to upgrade from. You might find this article interesting:

http://www.windowssecrets.com/comp/070208#story1

Thanks for that, very interesting.

That`s so weird. I was in Curry`s today as well. Went in to interfere with the Vista laptops :)

As usual I was accosted by a salesman who tried to sell me a machine which I don`t need as this one is capable of running Vista.
I asked a few questions and found out that nearly all the machines are pre-installed with Home Premium with the expected disk image for recovery. So it looks like there will be problems in store for us soon.

Got into an argument with him about the Upgrade DVD. He insisted that you would still have a valid XP licence after upgrading to Vista, I could not persuade him otherwise. No mention of the "workaround".

The Home Premium Upgrade is priced at £150 with the retail version being £220. They only had Upgrades on sale.

I`ve been reading a lot about the Upgrade and have not yet decided which way to go. Am a bit concerned that MS will close the loophole sometime. If this happened I would qualify for the Upgrade, but would lose XP which I do not want to happen as I intend to dual boot them.

Unlike Philgo I managed to resist the urge to buy today. :D

Elaine

The urge will be too strong, resistance is futile :eek:

"folder called "windows.old" which I will now delete."
Pilbo:
you deleted the whole content of windows.old?
Shall I go ahead deleting mine,too .without harm?
Thanks

:D

I was so proud of myself managing to resist.

Besides, I`ve told everyone who asked me if I had Vista that I was waiting a bit to see how others were getting on with it.

I don`t want :o (yet!)

Well done on getting yours up and running.

Elaine

There are certain instances in which a person might not be able to install over an existing copy of XP or 2000.

"For example, say you own a PC from one of the name brands that only shipped with a hidden recovery partition but no CDs. (Several well-publicized class-action lawsuits were filed against these companies over this practice.) You are eligible for the upgrade, and so you purchase and install it. Three months from now, your hard drive fails. You cannot re-install your previous verson of XP — first, because you have no recovery CDs and, second, your recovery partition was lost with the hard drive failure."

Makes sense, but not cents so they hide it.

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Originally Posted by nganvu

"folder called "windows.old" which I will now delete."
Pilbo:
you deleted the whole content of windows.old?
Shall I go ahead deleting mine,too .without harm?
Thanks

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I deleted the whole folder, without any harm. I wouldn't of upgraded this way if that wasn't possible.

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Originally Posted by dunedin

I was so proud of myself managing to resist.

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I'm proud of you too :)


Wouldn't it of been nice if all of us in the UK could get together and refuse to buy Vista, until it's price was brought down to the US price. It'll never happen though, too many mugs like me :mad:

I wish we could get everyone to do that. We have a heavyweight on our side. :)

Bill Gates was in Scotland recently to promote a project he is supporting to give training to unemployed youngsters (his Foundation, not MS).

There was a news report when he met our First Minister.
He touched on Vista and actually said that it should be the same price all over the world.

Elaine

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Originally Posted by dunedin

He touched on Vista and actually said that it should be the same price all over the world.

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He's a bit of fibber :(

Nvangu, as long as you don't intend to revert to the previous version of Windows then there is no problem with deleting Windows.old. It's only there to allow you to roll back.

Elaine, is your copy of XP an OEM copy (you have a Dell don't you?). If it is, then you would be better off buying OEM Vista IMO. That would legally allow you to dual boot with XP, and there seems little point in buying an upgrade version of Vista if the previous OS is OEM, as you won't be legally entitled to transfer it to another machine in the future anyway.

Home Premium OEM is around £62.

http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/kl.asp?bn=10339

SuperSparks, as a matter of interest how would you roll back, to your previous O/S?

Try this, it is legal because the methods is hard wired into Vista.
Creat a new partition or use a slave drive.
Install Vista but DO NOT add the product code. This will give you a 30 day trial version of Vista installed.
No reinstall Vista over it but choose the Upgrade option and this time add the product key.
The licence allows this as it states Vista upgrade requires a previous installaion of windows 2000, xp or vista.
For further details refer to the article "Get Vista upgrade, never pay full price" at http://www.windowssecrets.com/

We've already discussed that at some length on this forum. And it is in clear breach of the EULA to install an upgrade version without a qualifying OS. MS included that facility in the full knowledge that it could be abused by some - that does not make it "legal" to do so. In any case what is legal in one country may not be legal elsewhere, so I don't think anyone should be making sweeping statements about what is legal and what isn't.

Read the second part of that article that I linked to in Post #26 above.

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I'd like to acknowledge a couple of readers who wrote that it might be unethical to install the Vista upgrade without having purchased a previous version of the product. I agree. The clean-install method should only be used by people who did purchase a copy of XP or 2000, but can't install the Vista upgrade over their copy for some legitimate reason (as described in the next section, below).

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