New Motherboard suggestions?

I'm in the market for a new motherboard/processor. Mobo is a chaintech 7nif2, I've had it about 4 years now, just don't trust the lifespan much longer. (They've even removed updates from their site for this board.) Members here helped me rebuild my PC completely around this board 3 years ago, and it's been a good stable build. I haven't kept up with hardware changes much since, and I'm kinda lost now :o

I'd like to go somewhat 'progressive', stay a bit ahead of the game. Hopefully I can upgrade this without doing a major hardware overhaul, not a good time for that ;) A Tigerdirect outlet I stumbled upon recommended updating (in addition to processor) at least my video card because of slots on newer boards, but I'll see what you all say. Here's what I have, think I covered everything:

OS: XP Pro SP2

Board:
Chaintech 7nif2
nVidia-nForce
Bus Clock: 166 megahertz
BIOS: Phoenix Technologies, LTD 6.00 PG 09/05/2003

Antec Sonata case
Added additional 80 mm cooling fan

Processor:
1.85 gigahertz AMD Athlon XP 2500+
128 kilobyte primary memory cache
512 kilobyte secondary memory cache

Memory:
Slot 'A0' is Empty
Slot 'A1' has 512 MB
Slot 'A2' has 512 MB (brand new)

Drives:
HD: Western Digital 160 GB
NEC DV-5700A [CD-ROM drive]
LITE-ON LTR-32123S [CD-ROM drive]
3.5" format removeable media [Floppy drive]

Display:
ALL-IN-WONDER RADEON 7500 [Display adapter]
Mitsubishi E85LCD 18" Monitor

Audio:
Sound Card: Turtle Beach Santa Cruz
Altec Lansing ATP3 speakers

Printer:
Epson Stylus Photo R320

Cable Connection with Netgear Wireless Router for notebook

I'd be grateful for any and all input. My PC is used mostly for home/home office, some graphics, minimal gaming.

~Kat

What's your budget? Unlimited?:)

Unlimited?! :eek:

Guess I forgot to mention that part, eh? I dunno. I'm a good comparison shopper, when I know what I'm comparing :p I got the chaintech for free from a friend, so that's going to be hard to beat! Plus I've missed all the good pre-Christmas markdowns and rebates (usually when I buy hardware).

OK...
up to $120: fairly comfortable
$140 - $170: comfortable but squirming
$170 - $199: getting really uneasy
$200+ : freaking out

Does that help? :D

Another issue is that much as I love the Sonata case, it's very tight quarters. (A guy would easily have bloody knuckles, because I always manage to scrape my hands on something sharp.) So fit is a factor more so than in my old, generic case.

Good reviews but it is PCI-Express . . . progressive like you suggested. See the reviews linked on the tab. Asus makes a quality product.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131568
I got my son an Asus nForce board back in March and it rocks.
J.

You will need to get a cpu and ram also. :(

What I am looking at.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813130047

Yep, it really isn't possible to just replace the mobo & CPU. You will need new RAM, a new graphics card, and almost certainly a new power supply as well.

You aren't going to do it for under $200 I'm afraid.

https://discussions.virtualdr.com/im...2007/01/13.gif
s'cuse me while I pull myself back onto my chair.

What if I don't go 'progessive'? What if I stay in the same neighborhood and wait it out for a year (or 2)? Or is a 'compatible' board with my current hardware going to be like shopping for a T-Rex?

I don't honestly see the point of just changing the board. You could probably find something on Ebay, but while your system is running OK, I think you'd be better off saving the money for a replacement board and putting it towards a complete upgrade later on.

Thanks for the input, Nick.

I reread my initial post and neglected to mention two recent issues (sorry, tax time here in the colonies - makes my brain fuzzy ;) )

On reboot I am usually getting post codes which I cannot find the meaning of yet. Sometimes there are several codes that flash by quickly, the only two I've managed to grab so far are:
75
82

Also recently, when I reboot, sometimes the PC will instead power off altogether and won't boot back up. When I attempt to power it back up by pressing the power button on front of case, I get nothing. What I found I have to do is turn off the power strip that case and peripherals are plugged into, wait a few seconds, turn power strip back on, then press the power button on the front of the case and PC will boot up OK after that. Those two issues are what make me fear I don't have much life in the chaintech. But I am no expert, so I could be very wrong.

Having to play around with the power supply like that, indicates to me the ps is going out and needs replaced.
Anyway what I would do.

Thanks Train. Your comments led me to do some reading up on this. (I've never replaced power supply before and what I've had has been preinstalled in cases.)

Seems failure has been an issue for some with Antec Sonata. I found this article . Author says "After months of regular use, the +5 volt output becomes approximately 4.5 volts, which causes system instability and difficult to diagnose problems. This happens even if you have a "normal" system that doesn't use nearly the full capacity of the power supply. If your system is powered by an Antec, you should probably check it's outputs."

Others chimed in at that site that they've had the same type issues. So I went into my BIOS and jotted down info (listed below).

Not sure what to do next. Get a replacement PS from Antec? (3 yr warranty was up 12/23/06) Get a different brand?

Also, if PS is failing, and that can cause hardware problems mentioned in above linked article, could it also effect motherboard and generate post codes?

Here's info from BIOS:
Shutdown temp. 100c/212F

CPU Vcore 1.63v
+2.5v 2.67v
+3.3v 3.18v
+5.0v 4.75v
+12v 11.84v
-12v (-)11.86v
Memory Voltage 2.70v
AGP Voltage 1.48v
Battery Voltage 2.86v
Current System Temp 37c/98-100F
Current CPU Temp 66c/180F
Current CPU Fan Speed 3183 RPM

Very grateful for anyone's input ;)

PSU problems can cause all kinds of problems, and some of them can be things that you wouldn't immediately associate with the power supply.

I definitely wouldn't recommend Antec anymore. Tagan, OCZ, Enermax, Hiper, Xion, Thermaltake are all top notch.

I'd also suggest replacing the CPU heatsink/fan unit, or at the very least cleaning the dust out of it and reapplying some good thermal paste. 66°C is way too high for an idle temp, and being in the BIOS--not even booted into Windows--is definitely idling.

Thanks Nick! Perhaps this is the root of the problem (fingers crossed). I'm feeling much less stressed at the thought of avoiding a major overhaul for awhile longer ;) (I dropped a pretty penny on the rebuild 3 yrs ago, first one I attempted. It took infinite patience from some members here who held my hand and got me through it :D )

Here's the the power supply that came with the Sonata. So I'll be looking for something with similar specs? (I'm browsing NewEgg now).

lgbpop: Thanks for catching that! (I don't know enough about healthy temps and volts, I need to learn that.) The heat sink fan is my second now, I think. I do keep the case cleaned well, free of dust, etc. So I'll replace heatsink, and get good thermal paste.

Same size or larger.
Your link expired .

When you think you have found one, post the link.

Train, puzzled why you got 'link expired' ? If you're interested, I copied info from that link and pasted into attached document.

Thank you, that was very kind of you to that.

Seeing that you had a 380 that time, this time I suggest a 450 watt and I believe if you get some think the Tagan, OCZ, Enermax, Hiper, Xion, Thermaltake ones they will last you a long time to come.
I cranked in a bit for capacitor aging is what happened.

A good CPU heatsink/fan will help extend the life of your system, and you can't go wrong with a Zalman. I use the 7000Cu; it's a bit pricier than others, but it also fits Socket 754 and 939 among others so you could perhaps re-use it in a newer build when the time comes.

Thanks so much for the suggestions. I plan to order lgbpop's heatsink recommendation. (Thank you!)

The PSUs = feel like I'm being a bother. Trying to be self-reliant here, but reading all this is dizzying to me. Doesn't help that I just don't get what I'm reading :rolleyes: Amps and volts, dual +12v ? :confused: So I respectfully plead for some help here :o I read in one review that a major mobo manufacturer recommends 24-30 amps on a 12v line, important for 3D video card and/or dual core processor. (And aren't dual cores the new generation?) I've been reading specs, but I can't figure out how you tell if it's got 24-30 amps? I'm also reading up now to grasp what SATA is.

I can't seem to find a 450 in the manufacturers mentioned. It's either 10-20 watts below or above 450. So I listed options in both categories that I found from recommended brands.

I don't mind spending a bit more $ if the product is quality, has longevity, hopefully will slip into (much) later upgrades, and quiet is a huge plus (I barely hear the Antec).

Tried to narrow it all down. Here's what I found, based on brands you all like:
450 + Watts (and these might be overkill, I don't know. Space in the Sonata case is definitely a factor.)
An
Enermax 460 watt

A Hiper 480 watt

A Tagan 480

A Thermaltake 470

And a Xion 500 watt

Now, if I drop down in wattage, to 420/430, I found:
This Enermax 420 (reviews say it won't work on older motherboards. I'm confused, so it might be an issue with mine?)

There are 4 Thermaltake units in the 420-30 Watt range. The Thermaltake TR2 W0070RUC ATX 430W appears to be quite popular and well rated.

And one Tagan .

There is no harm at all in having a power supply that is larger than you need, especially if you plan to upgrade other components in the future. I would say that any of the first 5 that you listed would be a fine choice.

As for the amps, it is true that it is a very important specification. Unfortunately, as you found out, it can make your head spin trying to find out what the amps are on each rail. Rest assured, if you buy a quality PSU with more than enough wattage for your needs, then you really don't need to worry about the amps - the makers will have made sure that there is enough current on each rail. All I have ever done when choosing a PSU is to select a good brand, decide how many watts are required, then add a fairly hefty margin to that to allow for the unexpected and for futureproofing.

I'd personally go for the 500W Xion, they have got quite popular in a short space of time, and that's a good price, especially after the rebate, it has dual 12v rails, and puts out 38amps across them, also has PCI-E connectors, and a 24pin connector with 4 pins that can break away so if your board has a 20pin connector you won't have any problems connecting it.


Liam

Actually, the the 4 pin on my 500Watt XION's 24pin connector, swings to one side.
And the 140 mm fan is quiet.

Nick, thanks so much for easing my worries ;)

liam & Train: Thank you! So you both think the Xion 500 watt is good?
Just triple checking, if so, I'll get it ordered today along with the heatsink.

(Sheesh, can you tell I'm nervous about this for some reason, and need extra validation? :p )

"(Sheesh, can you tell I'm nervous about this for some reason, and need extra validation? )"

Under stand real well.

The Xion is the heaviest one weight wise and that means , normally, better better grades of stuff was used inside.

My Xion took a beating last month that should have cost me everything but the case. Still perking along. :D :D
Just my experience.

Ok, hugs to all of you! :D I got my order in to newegg (first time ordering from them). I got the Xion 500 W, the Zalman heatsink and some Zalman thermal grease (because reviews said it lowered temps better than Arctic Silver). I'll let you know when everything comes in and I get it all set up.

Many thanks!

~Kat

Your welcome!
And do let us know how things work out.

Check your Newegg account status around 8:30 your time, you may find they've already shipped your order. If you chose Fedex 3DaySelect service, you may see it Wednesday.:)

I was amazed with my first order, just how fast that company is at order fulfillment.

Me again. Got my order (wow, fast!)
A couple things, though.

First, the Zion Power Supply they sent is v 2.0 and it was supposed to be 2.2 I saw a review at newegg where that happened to someone else (different vendor) and they said the features are definitely not the same. Also, the $15 rebate is only good for the 2.2, not the 2.0 they sent me (so if I kept it I'd be paying more $ for less features). That review is here, under "New Egg Rocks" if you want to read it.

--------------------------------------------
Here are Specs for 2.0 from the box:
AC Input 115~120 VAC 10.7A/200 ~240 Vac 6.2A Frequency - 50/60 Hz

DC Output: +3.3V +5V +12V1 +12V2 -12V +5VSB
Min 0.3A 1.0A 1.0A 1.0A 0A 0A
Max 23A 28A 17A 18A 0.6A 2.0A

Connectors:
24 pins x1 (20+4 pins) (MBoard)
12v- 4pins x1 (MainBoard)
12V/5V - 4 pins x 6 (Drives)
Floppy x 2
SATA x 2
PCI Express x 1 (6 pins)

Others
MTBF: 100,000+ hours at 70% of full rated load
Temparture: 0~40C (Operating)
~40- ~70C (Storage)
Dimension (LxWxH) 145mm x 150mmx 85mm
--------------------------------------------------
Here are specs for 2.2 As near as I can tell the differences are:
2.0 says "dual cooling fans" but box doesn't say size
2.0 only has 1 PCI Epxress
2.0 has "Dual plus 12v x 1 (2.2 has x 2)
2.0 Input voltage, frequency and current are different
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Next is the Zalman CPU Cooler. It's huge! Must weigh a few pounds easy. The little fan I have on there now it probably 3 x 3 max and weighs a few ounces. Zalman box says it will fit the AMD socket 462 on my mboard, but seems like it's so heavy it would eventually fall right off the mboard. I know you all wouldn't steer me wrong, so I guess I need to hear I'm worrying needlessly and it'll be OK :o
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I think that's it. I can't even find anyone online that's selling the Xion 2.0 to compare it to the 2.2. But it looks like I'm going to have to send it back, yes? (Oh, and I didn't open anything yet.)

Mine says Ver 2.0
uder that it says
ATX 12v ver. 2.01

And it has the 2x sata connections and PCI-E - 6pin X 2 (VGA)

And should have one huge 140mm fan.

Quote:

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Must weigh a few pounds easy.

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760g or so, about 1 lb. 10 oz. but it feels heavy enough to break your foot if you drop it.:)

Zalman's website advises that as long as the unit is mounted according to directions, it's quite safe and won't damage anything. It also advises not dropping the tower after the unit's installed.:D Understandable, it's the inertia thing. Mine's been installed for 16 months now, not a problem at all.

As far as your PSU goes, if there is that much appreciable difference you might try the RMA route but the PSU you were sent is a good one as well; if they'd credit you for the uncollectable $15 rebate, they'd save the money on shipping the replacement out and shipping yours back. Just some food for thought, may be worth asking them.

Unless you have an SLI-capable motherboard, you will have no use for the additional PCI-express connector whatsoever. Apart from that there is no significant difference, and I don't think it would be worth the aggravation of RMAing it.

OK, Nick, you answered my next question. My m-board is old enough that I'm pretty sure it's not SLI capable (specs for it are on my first post here), so PCI-espress is not relevant to me until I upgrade m-board (later, I hope, since so much other hardware will need upgraded with it). I looked up PCI-express, which is newer version of graphics cards, is that correct? And if so, would there ever be a scenario in the near future where one would need two graphics cards (and therefore two PCI-express)?

The only other difference that I see that might be significant (but looks like you all think it's not) is the 12v x 1 on the 2.0 I received, whereas the 2.2 has 12v x 2. If that's not a big deal, then I have no problem whatsoever asking newegg if they'd be willing to credit me the rebate rather than go through the trouble of RMA.

I'm totally relying in you guys here. I'm just the one footing the bill (and installing, yikes :eek:), so trust your wisdom & judgement. ;)

lgbpop, thanks for reassurance about the CPU cooler. (I still know there is a part of me that will be listening for an unexpected ~thud~ at first :D ) Only other issue I might run into is fit (again, very tight in the case), but I think it will manage OK.

You really have to be a rabid gamer to feel the need for dual graphics cards in SLI-mode. Or the other advantage to SLI capable mobos is if you need more than two monitors, you can use 2 cards in non-SLI mode for that, and have up to 4 monitors.

As for the 2x12 volt connectors, they are only just starting to even be fitted to mobos. On the Gigabyte board on my Core 2 Duo rig, for example, it has the 2x12volt connector, but it will still work just as happily with a single 12volt ATX plugged in for those without the twin 12volt PSU - I had to remove a blanking plug to fit the 8-pin 2x12v connector, which shows how unnecessary it is at the moment. It's possible that some of the multicore CPU's of the future may actually need the 2 x 12volt, but at the moment I think it is just futureproofing built into the specs.

In any case, were you ever to fit 2 graphics cards and a CPU that really required the 2x12volt in future, you would probably need a larger PSU. 700 to 800 Watts are becoming commonplace for high-end systems now.

Great, thanks Nick, for the info, very informative and reassuring ;) Thanks to everyone else, too. :) I'm going to see what newegg will do for me (I'll let you know how that works out). Hopefully get going on installing this weekend!

Well, I just did a live chat with newegg Customer Service. A little bit weird at first (she must have been having a bad day), said they couldn't guarantee version # of stock items since inventory moves so fast, unless item # is specifically stated. So then I linked her to the item page showing the version number clearly states 2.2. So she changed her tune, and gave me a $15 credit (amount of rebate) and said the newegg return policy (30 day full refund, 1 year replacement) still applies.

So all worked out well in the end ;)

I'm going to tackle this in the morning. Can't be back to bug you till all is said and done tho, since my other PC (notebook) is still laying around in pieces. (Started on the elusive lap top CMOS battery hunt and still haven't gotten that one wrapped up yet.)

I'm back. I got the new power supply in, all went well. I didn't blow anything up and everything's hooked up and running. :D While I was at it, I replaced the front door to my case (Antec sent me a free replacement) since the front USB ports had receded into the case. So that's working again as well.

The only problem is installing the Zalman CPU Cooler. My Chaintech 7nif2 is listed as compatible , as long as I watch that it doesn't get too close to power supply or other hardware (roughly 3/16" clearance from edge of fan to any surrounding hardware). It's going to be really close, but I think it will be just at the minimum.

The problem is I can't get what's currently on top the CPU removed. When my friend gave me this mboard, he had already installed the XP 2500+ processor and heatsink/fan on top if it (little inexpensive plastic fan).I've attached a document with a photo of mine (it's the copper one) and one with similar (if not idential) clips. That round tab you see at the top of the photo must be the key to getting if off, because I see no screws. It's like I need to move that copper tab/lever somehow to release those clips from the CPU. At best I've been able to slide it horizontally just a hair (seems the direction to take, but I'm not sure.) So I don't think it's glued down. That lever is snug, and am afraid if I keep trying to remove the current copper cooler, I'm going to crack CPU or mboard or both.

If you can ID from the photo what is it and how it works, maybe I can get it off the 'right' way. The other issue is if I DO get it off, and the Zalman doesn't work (due to tight fit), I'm not sure I can get the original back on again.

TIA,
Kat

You have the right place alright. You should push down and rotate it away from the catches that hold it in place.
Should be able to catch it with a flat tip screw drive, double check to see if the slot is there, and if it is make darn sure it is a tight fit and DO NOT SLIP.

You can destroy the mobo if you hit it. Maybe you might even want to post a better picture of the end with teh tab first!

You'd better resign yourself to removing the motherboard, at which point removing the current HSF will be much easier. To mount that Zalman to a Socket A/462 board, the mounting brackets attach to the mobo with screws from the underside of the board and then the Zalman screws to the brackets.

To remove the old HSF, you have to push down on the spring-steel clip bar with one hand (to relieve the spring tension) and use a screwdriver or similar to pry the clip away from the plastic socket-base tabs with the other hand. Once the clip has been removed from one side, it easily clears the base tabs on the other side. Gently twist the HSF a bit to break the old thermal paste and it should then lift away from the CPU. You need to clean all the old thermal paste off of the center of the CPU before applying new paste.

OK, thanks Train. Will try for better photos first, to be safe (tight in there, will do my best). Be back in a bit.

EDIT: I just lgbpop's post. I'm going to step outside and freak out for a minute. BRB.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KatMac

OK, thanks Train. Will try for better photos first, to be safe (tight in there, will do my best). Be back in a bit.

EDIT: I just lgbpop's post. I'm going to step outside and freak out for a minute. BRB.

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Welcome to the club! ;) :D