PCI Express x16 and PCI Express x1

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February 13th, 2006, 07:49 PM
stevejr

PCI Express x16 and PCI Express x1

What is the difference/ use? Is the Express x16 just for video cards? I have been doing some reading but maybe I just missed that part? Also...I was going to buy the Asus GeForce 6200 TC with 64MB onboard and "effective memory size 256MB"...but when I read the specs closely I discovered that the card is actually only a 64MB and that it "shares", or uses up to 256MB of system memory. What, if any, is the advantage of this way versus a card that has the whole 256MB onboard? Is it just cheaper? I noticed that the next card in line ( at Newegg) had a full 256MB on board and was about $20.00 more. I am now thinking that I ought to get the card with 256MB onboard.?? I am not a gamer so I think that a 256MB card will be plenty for my needs.
February 13th, 2006, 09:58 PM
Artanis

IMO, any card using system ram blows. Won't matter if you run Win95 &/or very old games, but for older games like Starcraft 32mb is fine. Unreal Tournament Game of the Year Edition (not a recent game) showed QUITE an improvement when I upped from a 32mb GF2 GTS to a GF4 Ti4200 with 128mb.
64 would be fine for those 2, but again I wouldn't want any card "sharing" memory from the mobo system ram.
Cheaper it is to do it that way - you're correct.

Think possible future games you might try. Go 128 or 256 on card memory.
If your mobo has the pci-e slots, there are more deals right now than for AGP models butt more AGP models will get cleared out in the near future.

The link below explains pci-e.........

http://www.gen-x-pc.com/pci_basic.htm
February 13th, 2006, 10:16 PM
stevejr

Well, I think that I have answered some of my own question. the anandtech site had an article about PCI Express...described the detailed architecture, etc...but it basically said that the Express x16 is twice as fast as AGP 8x...so I'm assuming that the Express x16 slot is for the video card ?? But I still don't know what the x1 slots are for. I also read on Webopedia that the onboard memory of a card is specifically geared or structured for the card's needs ( paraphrasing here...), and is much better than the general memory of the system. So...I assume that this means that onboard memory is better for the card than any "shared" memory...thought I'd pass this along...gotta go...2:30 A.M comes quickly !!!
February 13th, 2006, 10:53 PM
Artanis

so I'm assuming that the Express x16 slot is for the video card ?? YUP

I haven't really followed the pci-e stuff too much, since I don't have any mobo's that are real recent, but I would guess that will be for the cards of the future that we now use on PCI slots, like audio, tuner, expansion, etc.

I am sure googling would get you more info if some members with recent high end mobos don't chime in.

Train should know better details.
February 13th, 2006, 11:34 PM
123Mags456

I've got a PCI-E mobo... again,... i still have no idea what the x1 slots are for
February 13th, 2006, 11:41 PM
judge john

lol, I’ll join the club. i have 2x PCI-E x16 and 1xPCI-E x1, and i have no idea what the express x1 is for. also i don't really know what the second PCI-Ex16 is for as my board doesn’t support SLI.
February 13th, 2006, 11:43 PM
123Mags456

thats odd...how pointless :P
February 14th, 2006, 11:19 AM
liam858

They are going to be used for new controller cards, for SATA II, and RAID etc, as they can provide more power to run multiple drives from, if you run out of space on the onboard controller(s).
As well as Firewire, and USB 2.0 expansion cards, like this: http://www.everythingusb.com/aaxeon_...ress_card.html

Liam
February 14th, 2006, 12:23 PM
SuperSparks

PCI Express slots can be used for any purpose. So even if you have 2 x16 slots in a board that isn't SLI enabled, you can still plug a second graphics card in (for a multimonitor setup), or you could plug any other PCI-e card in, whether it's 1x, 2x, 4x, 8x, or 16x.

1x PCI-e cards will slowly replace PCI cards (I'm surprised that it's taken so long for them to be introduced though). PCI will slowly be relegated to legacy status, as happened with ISA slots a few years back.
February 14th, 2006, 01:50 PM
123Mags456

Wow i wonder what sort of audio we're gonna be getting on PCI-E stuff in the future..
February 14th, 2006, 04:25 PM
stevejr

I am definitely gonna get a 256MB PCI Express x16 card since the new m/b I'm getting has that available...( and because the m/b doesn't have AGP.) The article at Anandtech was written in 2003 and seems to be a very thorough and detailed explanation...along with some good graphics...about how exactly the PCI-E stuff works. Those of you who are trained/self-taught in computer architecture stuff will understand it mucho better than me and it may explain the intended uses of the "1x"slots. Who knows...with my new system I just might have to try a few games...I might like it!!
February 14th, 2006, 04:26 PM
123Mags456

If your going for games i cant reccomend battlefield 2 enough :D
February 14th, 2006, 05:01 PM
stevejr

Battlefield 2...I'll check it out...thanks...When I first got a computer back in 1998 (?), my son had a war game that he played where he had to dig, load the ore & get it to the refinery in order to make the money to buy weapons to deploy...probably very dinosaur today but I kinda enjoyed watching him. The 'puter had integrated video with only ...Drum rolllllll....8 Mb.!!! but the game was still neat to watch...so with today's games & good cards & fast systems...
February 14th, 2006, 05:14 PM
liam858

To play BF2 you'll want high end bits across the whole system, it is recommended to have at least 1gb of DDR2, or 2gb of DDR RAM to run (At high res) as you may get a bottleneck from one or two components if they aren't upto par with the 7800....

Liam
February 14th, 2006, 06:49 PM
stevejr

Holy bit-rate Batman!!! I had read that some of the games wouldn't even work without very high end cards ...is this one of them? How about a second choice...something a little less demanding?? As a first foray into gaming I doubt if I will need much to impress me !! I will be getting a 1GB stick of DDR 400 (pc3200) ...will add another 1GB later...coupled with an AMD Sempron 3400+. I know..I know...the 939's are "better", but it's called a "budget". BTW...what does a decent game cost?
February 14th, 2006, 06:54 PM
liam858

When i get games, it's usually around £30 online, so say around $50 a pop.

What monitor are you using with the system? I think you should be okay for BF2, it's just for the gaming nuts who play at super high res and detail.....even though the top teams play at low res, thus seeing everything better, as it is bigger on-screen.;)

Liam
February 14th, 2006, 07:28 PM
stevejr

Opinions..observations...I am looking at these two cards: 1. Sapphire 100119 -HS Radeon x550 256MB 128-Bit DDR PCI Express x16...( has passive cooling). or: 2. Asus EAX 550GE/TD/256MB Radeon x550 256MB DDR PCI Express x16...( has fan). I am not familiar with any other brands but I am open to suggestions.
February 14th, 2006, 07:30 PM
stevejr

Hey Liam...my monitor is a Samsung 700DF 17"
February 14th, 2006, 07:36 PM
liam858

Sorry about the BF2 comment wheere i mentioned a 7800, i was getting confused with another thread.....

I would push the budget to about an X700 if you can, they are a lot better than the X550, and probably don't cost that much more.

How much are you planning to spend on a graphics card?

Liam
February 14th, 2006, 08:12 PM
stevejr

Liam...the two x550's are $70.00 each...I know what Judge John is going thru.."system cost creep!!" I certainly want to put together a solid performing system and I could go another $20.00, maybe a wee bit more if I can see a sustantial improvement. I'll look at the x700 at newegg...do you have any recommendations for a dependable brand?
February 14th, 2006, 08:18 PM
123Mags456

Not that my choice in cards have been particularly brilliant :: cough 6600:: But ive always gone with the Nvidea brand myself.
February 14th, 2006, 09:57 PM
stevejr

I saw this: Sapphire 100122L Radeon x700 256MB DDR PCI Express x16 ...$99.00...has a fan. Hmmm....I'll need to think about that....have to draw the money line somewhere...sure need to find that long-lost-rich-uncle!!
February 14th, 2006, 10:33 PM
judge john

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevejr

Liam...the two x550's are $70.00 each...I know what Judge John is going thru.."system cost creep!!"

oh look, i've been quoted :) . i personally am a fan of buying the very best you can now in order to save money in the long run. for instance you could spend $50 on a gfx card now and in a few moths time when you have more money upgrade to say a $200 gfx card. while if you just splashed out in the first place it would have saved you $50 in the long run. but then again my budget went from $500 to about $1200 :eek: .
and here is quite possibly the most used link on this site; http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/12/...iii/page4.html
but i doubt that has any cards that are in your price range. so here's another one i came across with Google; http://techreport.com/etc/2004q3/doo...w/index.x?pg=1
have not read it myself but it seems to compare the lower end cards.
February 15th, 2006, 05:10 AM
liam858

Hold on.....i forgot you were going for 2 cards....you can't run 2 ATI cards on an SLI mobo, SLI is Nvidia's dual card thingie, ATI have their own called Crossfire, so if you want 2 x ATI cards, you're gonna need a Crossfire compatible board, and not an SLI board......

Liam
February 15th, 2006, 04:55 PM
stevejr

Judge John...now you are FAMOUS...people are even quoting you !! I agree with your premise of getting the "best" that you can get, in general terms...I know all of us have had situations where we bought a widget for $$'s...then later wished we had just gone ahead and spent the extra money for what we really wanted. But sometimes ( quite often a lot of times), the hard reality of money says that we just have to try and be satisfied with less than the "best". In my case, I do not need the "best" due to a business factor or other income generating situation. My life has been one of pragmatic necessity...raising my two children by myself showed me that there are many things that I did not absolutely "have-to-have" in order to survive. So many times I would see people with their brand new 'whatever', and part of me would naturally envy those people...man, that hurt!! I sacrificed several opportunities for myself that would have made me real good money but it would have required me to be away from my kids too much....and they had no one else but me...I could not trade my kid's emotional stability, their critical formative years...for a new house, or new car...boat...etc..My son and my daughter are now young adults...very stable...very down-to-earth...very realistic about Life..kind and considerate to others. Perfect?...of course not...Now I think that having neat stuff is just fine...I would like to have more 'stuff' myself...and slowly but surely I am acquiring some of that 'stuff'...but it will all go through my pragmatic filter. Hey Judge John...thanks for those links..I did the cpu comparison area of Tomshardware and that's where I decided that for my situation the Sempron 3400+ was a good choice. Hey Liam...man, I'm sorry if I made it sound like I wanted to do double cards...I was just meaning to show you the prices of two different cards...probably too much info. from this end...!! I appreciate this forum very much...I feel like I'm talking to some good friends who tolerate my ramblings! ( Is that warm & fuzzy, or what!!)
February 15th, 2006, 05:11 PM
liam858

LOL Steve, that's what VDr is for. :)

I know what you mean too, and i was confusing this by mentioning dual cards, i guess it's a common topic and it was fresh in my mind....

I'd try and push for the X700 if i were you, i had one, but i paid £80 including VAT and Delivery, but still $99 sounds like a bargain from this side of the pond with the whole maths/exchange thing.:)

OR

As i went over to the dark side....which is Nvidia.....check how much a 6600/GT is in $USD, if that's cheaper than the X700, go for one of those, the software/driver is a lot easier to use/customise/overclock.

Liam
February 15th, 2006, 05:21 PM
stevejr

Liam...sure will...thanks..
February 15th, 2006, 05:57 PM
stevejr

Liam...??? All I found were some GeForce 6600LE...could not find nVidia...now I'm confused...I thought nVidia and GeForce went together...did I leave my brain at work today??
February 15th, 2006, 06:06 PM
liam858

Nvidia is the manufacturer, Geforce is like the product line, or "Series" So it's a Nvidia Geforce 6600...in a sesame seed bun.:D

Look for AGP GT's, the GT is better than the standard.

Hmmm, a quick search shows them at about $115. :(

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...ice=&maxPrice=

Liam
February 15th, 2006, 07:09 PM
stevejr

Ahhh..I'm only half-way brain-dead today...that's where I had looked. The m/b that I will be using does not have any AGP slots, just PCI slots and PCI-E slots. Since the video card was gonna be PCI Express x16, I didn't see any point in having an AGP slot. Q: the cards that you pointed me to what does GDDR3 mean? I thought that the ram of the card had to match up with the system ram...and I also saw that those cards were all 128MB...and the cards that I was considering have 256MB...so would one of those 600/GT cards with 128MB outperform an x550 with 256MB.?
February 15th, 2006, 08:53 PM
judge john

don't know to much about the x550 but the 6600GT is defiantly better. unfortunately with most things in life bigger is often better, but that’s not the case here. the 6600GT may only have 128MB compared to the X550's 256MB but the memory of the 6600GT is DDR3 and runs at 1000MHZ. that is twice as quick as the memory of the x550(500MHZ) and as such more than makes up for the difference in size. also the 'core clock' of a 6600GT is quicker meaning it can handle the information at a faster rate. all these things make the 6600GT a far better card and as far as Nvidia cards go you need to be looking at a 6800GT/6800Ultra or a Geforce 7 to get better, and those all cost a lot more money. so don't be fooled by size, speed is more important. another advantage of a Geforce 6 card is they have more modern technology than the x550 allowing it to last longer before it becomes out dated and unsupported by software makers.
and that stuff about the gfx memory having to be the same as the system is false. i assume you may have got it from onboard video cards that use your system memory. but any separate gfx card uses it's own high speed memory. i personally have a 6600GT and can tell you it's a very capable card and certainly gives you some of the best 'bang for your buck', but the price isn't so cheap.
February 15th, 2006, 09:14 PM
stevejr

Thanks, Judge...perhaps you are a lawyer instead of a judge...that was very informative and persuasive !! The info about the card's memory was much needed. Look out...creep, creep, creep!!! gotta go..later ya'll.
February 17th, 2006, 08:54 PM
123Mags456

i cant remember if it was this thread or not that my precious Nvidia 6600 card was being criticised or not. but i ran a benchmark test on battlefield 2 with everything set on high, Nvidea control panel set to High quality and playing on a 64 player server, and i got these results.

Frames: 467
Time (ms) 10252
Min: 41
Max: 50
Avg: 45.552

Are they really that bad? or is that good considering the card was only £90?
February 17th, 2006, 11:08 PM
judge john

well that defiantly should not be happening!!! a 6600 is just not capable of that under any circumstances so there must be another explanation. Firstly some simple questions;
What resolution is it set to?
Any AA?
And is every individual option set to high? Not just the 'high', 'medium', and 'low' option box.
Also the best way to asses the power of a gfx card is with a benchmarking test. this doesn’t always reflect real world situations but should be a good overall indicator of power. here's the best one; http://www.futuremark.com/download/?3dmark05.shtml
see what score that gives you. for reference i have 7977 and looking at your specs you should not be near that.
February 18th, 2006, 03:00 PM
123Mags456

everything is set to high, and its set to the highest res it can go to. ill check out your link tho. thanks

also, the software i used to perform the benchmarking test with was fraps incase u wanted to know :D