Google grows in yet another direction
Is Google getting out of control?
I would say I agree with a lot of the comments made on both these sites. But is there a better alternative out there that is as good as Google used to be?
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Google grows in yet another direction
Is Google getting out of control?
I would say I agree with a lot of the comments made on both these sites. But is there a better alternative out there that is as good as Google used to be?
In a way i agree
Google has changed
for the 4 years ive been using it, there is a difference in search result
more ads and quite a bit of junk.
But i still swear by it, i have not found a replacement that is as good, and i wont for a good time to come.
Until it really effects me, then im sticking with it.
Just my opinion
:)
I've noticed that sometimes I end up having to resort to other search engines recently to find what I need. Sad isnt it?
Yeah, there is some truth to it. Google is still great though. I guess we'll have to wait for M$ to get into that territory until someone will have enough money to make a search engine worthwhile.
I agree. When I first heard that Microsoft was working on a Search engine I wasn't very impressed or interested. Now, with Google becoming increasingly annoying to use I'm looking forward to Microsoft's effort.
I also agree that Google is still the best, but I'd love to find another one that's as good or better.
;) Don't you mean that Microsoft is shopping for a Seach Engine that they can gobble up? I could just imagine the hysteria this could create. Like "Microsoft's web crawler is just a new way for them to line up their next acquisition!" or "Microsoft has found a new way to track your web activity!"Quote:
Originally posted by DuaneB
I agree. When I first heard that Microsoft was working on a Search engine I wasn't very impressed or interested. Now, with Google becoming increasingly annoying to use I'm looking forward to Microsoft's effort.
Welcome to GoogluMS :Sponsored by Billy Bob :rolleyes: :D
You want a choice of search engines? Try here . Not my work - produced as a "labour of love" by a guy I know ... :eek:
Not looking for a choice but a a better alternative out there that is as good as Google used to be?Quote:
Originally posted by mhl
You want a choice of search engines? Try here . Not my work - produced as a "labour of love" by a guy I know ... :eek:
I often use this one..
http://www.queryserver.com/web.htm
Google, although I still sometimes use it, has become useless for finding many things that are computer related... You can still get info if the search is for something like an error message or specific problems like a virus if you know the virus' actual name but getting info on broader topics like hard drives or modems or laptops gets nothing but hundreds of ads to buy them.
Same thing with almost anything that could be consumer related- ie- bought online.. if the question has to do with something that can be purchased then getting technical or problem solving details on it is almost impossible without spending a lot of time narrowing down the search parameters which means you have to already know a fair bit about the subject you're looking up.
Howdy:
I use www.dogpile.com as a first choice for a search engine. Hardly use Google anymore at all.
Murray
I've noticed the ads too. I ignore them. For my money, Google's still the best search engine.
Like any good tool, the more familiar you become with it, the easier it is to use and the better the end result.
http://www.google.com/help/refinesearch.html
Memorize it.
:)
Thanks Vern. I'm quite familiar with how to refine searches with Google, necessity being the mother of invention and all that, but you have to admit the more Google expands into newer areas i.e. poop-up blocker, adserver, and now e-mail service, the more the search capabilities have become a paler reflection of what it used to be. I'm not saying that I have found something better yet but I'm still looking and hoping.
I'm a HUGE supporter of Google Adwords. I pay Google every month for the business it brings me.
I also know a number of Webmasters who use Google to generate money for their efforts. I have yet to hear to much bad about that program.
As a user of Google I'm not sure what your problem with Google is... Frankly I don’t see what your issues are. If I fail to find the info I'm looking for I consider it my problem and not Googles. Since it can only use the words I put in to help me find what I'm looking for...
Basicly everying needs to be paid for somehow and asking them to restrict their ablity to create profit is insane.
AdWords in Google isn't that big of a problem. The little green boxes (that are clearly identified as Sponsored Links) to the right of search results can be ignored like any other advertising.
It's the adversing (both real and phoney) cluttering up the search results that is getting annoying. Recently, I misspelled a search phrase and my gibberish entry (eg. hoxpnrtodj) got a link to a site promising the lowest prices on hoxpnrtodj with fast and free shipping.
Also, as mentioned, entering the name of a real product will take you to sellers sites rather than information or reviews.
A simple search for example.
"maxtor 120 GB hard drive" yeilds 73,700 hits and yet you have to go past 139 hits of advertisements selling a hard drive before you find a hit that simply brings up pertinent info about the drive. Call me crazy I don't care. when Google started out their hierarchy was info first, reviews second, and advertisements last. I have no problem with any one making a buck but come on. The right half of the pages of listed hits id invaribly blank. Plentyof room for adverts there no?
It is because of return hits like these people are becoming much more savvy when searching. The more paring down of your search or to be specific about your search does a great deal to eliminate hawkers.
The "I'm feeling lucky button" should be labelled I'm a sucker button.
As far as not hearing much bad about how Google is degenerating into the world wide web classified ad section you either didn't bother to read the links posted at the beginning of the thread or perhaps when you googled for related links to see how many more people are becoming dissatisfied with Google you gave up sifting through all junk of people selling something.
Well I have to add that Recently I've been searching for deals on laptops and there is a common thing happening.
Dealtime
Bizrate
buy
amazon
mysimon
shopping
Are torking me off because almost all of them have the same info. Half of them are the same place just a different logo.gif.
The general rule was that you would never be seen if you were on the 11th page but with a vauge search like "maxtor 120 GB hard drive" your going to have to go to a much higher page to find info on help/support if that is what you were after. There are just to many people searching for the cheapest place to pick up a hard drive.
"maxtor 120 GB hard drive support" gets sites you could use... so I guess proper keywords is still important.
Calpitor> A simple search for example. "maxtor 120 GB hard drive" yeilds 73,700 hits and yet you have to go past 139 hits of advertisements selling a hard drive before you find a hit that simply brings up pertinent info about the drive. ... The "I'm feeling lucky button" should be labelled I'm a sucker button.
If you're ONLY looking for "pertinent info", you have to tell Google. How's it supposed to know? (I seriously doubt that the phrase "pertinent info" will get you anywhere though. :))
For example, if you're looking for jumper settings for your Maxtor 120GB hard drive, use something like:Or, if you're looking for the number of cylinders for the same drive:And now that you have that drive up and running, you would like to brush up on the instructions for installing Windows 98:And, with your searches narrowed down like this, go ahead, try the "I'm feeling lucky" button. :)
Vernon, I see what you are saying. What I think Calpitor is saying though, is that a while ago, when you typed "maxtor 120 GB hard drive", you would get technical information. If you type it nowadays, you get commercial sites trying to sell you something. That IS quite annoying. You have to work THAT much harder, refining your search to get simple information. Google has become too commercialized (no wonder they are worth Billions of $), and in my opinion, has lost some of its clout.
Having said that, I still use google out of habit, and because of a lack of other good search engines. I have noted the search engines made in this thread and will check them out.
I understand that. Part of the reason this is happening is:For example, if someone buries the phrase "Britney Spears" or "Maxtor Hard Drive" somewhere in their completely unrelated webpage(s), it's certainly not Google's fault.
- there is an ever-increasing number of people and webpages on the Internet (Google currently lists/scans more than 3.3+ Billion), and
- folks have learned (are learning) how to get their webpages to show up on a Search Engine site.
What you have to do is be smarter than those that are trying to get you to look at their junk. Think about what it is you're searching for and then how it might be listed/phrased within a related webpage.
(If you needed a starter for your car for example, you couldn't just punch in "starter" into Car-Parts computer and expect to get exactly what you're looking for).
Until the day we can communicate telepathically with a computer, you're going to have to try to tell it (type) specifically what it is you're after.
I see Google as a monopoly at the moment. If and when M$ will get into the picture, we will be the ones to benefit. Less "sales" tactics, more "to the point" googling.
I hope :D
Vern you have mad a valid point but I think I may have clouded the issue here by using "a simple search" as an example. If anyone reading this is offended I apologize in advance but with an ever swelling number of people out there who are compelled to open and execute everything in there Inbox I don't give them much credit for being able to cull through the many eccentricities on how to google. As you have noted web masters on an ever growing scale are getting better at getting Google to list them on a search and list them highly in the rankings when hits are returned. Which is part and parcel of my argument. With Google diversifying into among other things, email, they are seceding ground bit by bit to those who are detracting from their good name. I'm not saying there are easy answers here. Which is why I continue to use Google partly through habit and partly because it is still better than some but nowhere near what it used to be. "In a perfect wolrd" (quotes used to note there could never be one obviously) Google would add yet another section for all these hawkers\classified advertisers and perhaps call it Selloogle or Cloogle :)
Usil just the idea of looking towards Microsoft as an ideal solution makes me feel uncomfortable. Perhaps instead we should be looking towards the Open Source Community. :D Mind you M$ running a search engine has to be lightyears beyond them entering the Anti-Virus\Security market. :D :D
Calpitor, actually I had not set my hopes in M$. My point was that once M$ get into the searching business, Google will have to pull itself together and fight for users, hopefully by improving and going back to being good ole' Google! Thats the free market for you.Quote:
Usil just the idea of looking towards Microsoft as an ideal solution makes me feel uncomfortable. Perhaps instead we should be looking towards the Open Source Community. Mind you M$ running a search engine has to be lightyears beyond them entering the Anti-Virus\Security market.
Unfortunately, MS wants to purchase/acquire/takeover Google because of people like us (we use Google out of habit, because we like it, and because it is currently the best at what it does). I do not remember the full story, but I know that MS made several attempts to purchase Google.
Usil, you made a comment about Google being a 'Monopoly', I think you may be trying to toss that word around without using it correctly.
The closest Definition of the word is 'a commodity controlled by one party'.
Google does have 75% of the search engine traffic and is only expected to drop to 50-55% when Yahoo launches a Search Engine this year. (Ya didn't they start out as a seach engine?)
You do have Other options for a seach engine.
Overture.com <- I thought it was stupid when they changed there name.
37.com
And I cant forget the other hundreds of search engines that you can list your site with for free on some sites :-)
Honestly if your truely upset with google I suggest looking at DMOZ.org
Google didn't get on top because it had huge cash backing, but the major reason is that it has a good, fast loading design. Which is whythe majority of us do use it.
There are lots of different definitions of the word, you can find one that best suits you. The point is that you understood what I meant. You said yourself that it has 75% of the market. That allows them to pretty much do what they want. They already have people where they want them.Quote:
Monopoly
A situation where a single company controls nearly all of a particular market for goods or services.
www.freebuck.com/reference/glossary/m.htm
I can't say that I am upset, just disappointed. Its a shame to see it turn out to be like this.
But hey, you gotta give it to them, their business strategy was excellent!
Interesting thread, I don't know how I missed it. I've been wondering about the direction that Google is taking myself, after all they got to be as big as they are (and remember they came out of nowhere and kicked the backside of all the big boys at the time), because they were simply the best. Quick, and relevant every time. It's not like that any more, apart from the commercial sites as mentioned above, the searches just don't seem to have the relevance that they used to. I know they periodically make changes to their search algorithm to try and prevent site spamming and those sort of tricks, and they seem to have messed up the core technology while they're at it. The amount of times recently when I've been trying to find some help for someone's problem and I've been taken to some obscure tech forum with a single question containing the keyword and no replies to it. You have to ask how that can possibly be the most linked to site on the Internet :confused: And that didn't happen a year ago either.
Here is a very interesting article about MS and search engines - and from personal experience I would agree that they've wrecked the Technet search function. I'll leave it to you to decide whether the ascribed motives are genuine or not:
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20031120.html
Been knapping have we, Its not like you to miss a thread:)
After reading this thread for the past week, iam now kinda looking forward for a MS own search engine
If they can make a go off it, it may work.
I guess Using Google for 4 years has sort of left a mark, and it would be hard to go to something else *wipes away tears*:D:)
Yeah I read that yesterday Usil and thought of you. ;) So much for Microsoft looking to get into this particular niche of the market sounds like Bill has admitted defeat.
Just thought I'd jump in and say I use this search engine.
http://vivisimo.com/
KartOO might be the strangest search engine. But, I've used it and it works quite well.
http://www.kartoo.com/en_index.htm
Here's a list of fairly specialized search engines. Some of the links may have died by now, but it's still a resource I use.
...ummm....
I think we may all be confusing search engine effectiveness with the pervasiveness of clever search engine 'gamers'...
What I mean by this, is that more and more sites have really pulled all the stops out to get themselves listed ahead of truly relevant search results.
As an (emabrassing) illustration:
When Star Wars Phantom Menace came out, just to prove a point about movie piracy, I entered a request on AltaVista for any available downloads of the film... on the very day it came out. I thought I was clever because quite a number of site matches came up. Someone in the room asked "where are these places?". I shrugged and suggested they were certainly overseas and probably from Asia "here let me click on the first one and see what happens...."
<BANG!> A triple XXX site! :eek: And it immediately went into spawn mode.. power slamming window after window faster than any mortal can point & click. Amidst the sounds of gasps and curses I found I was able, after all, to Alt-F4 faster than the pop-up frenzy.
And, to be sure, if you enter just about any term, you may be shocked to find that it will call up quite a few XXX sites. Imagine searching for a simple household item and clicking on an unwanted site? You might, for example, want "Little Debbie" snack cakes, and find that "Debbie Does Dallas" comes up as a possible hit.
Now, ... this is a little bit of what INTERNET-2 will be all about: not a new or different kind of technology, but some added smarts that isn't there now. So that if I enter "button hook" AND "football" I will not get any pages referencing either sewing or soccer... see what I mean?
At any rate; I was originally saying, that it may not be that our favorite search engines are suddenly degenerating in quality, as much as it is that slick operators have clogged the works with their various ways of gaming the system to their advantage (and to our detriment).
You got me curious now, what is INTERNET-2?Quote:
Now, ... this is a little bit of what INTERNET-2 will be all about
Hi!
Internet-2 is supposed to be a 'functional' re-vamp; but it's not a completely new web architecture or faster cabling or anything that will require new equipment of anyone.
It is more of a conceptual upgrade. In other words, now that more people are prepared to go for more information via the web, it is harder to siphon the extraneous from the truly relevant. So, search engines are being tweaked so that the 'smarts' w/in the engine can more precisely discern what the requestor wants.
Today, if I enter "Brown Sugar" AND "Rolling Stones" I will still get thousands of pages of baked goods, recipes, actresses, etc. In the future, the search engine will be smart enough to limit my search (and the only actress that will come up will be the one that is referenced in the song).
Let me see if I can find a reference for this... or you can email Screen Savers and ask them as well.
;)
In the meantime ...Quote:
Originally posted by M. David Petrella
In the future, the search engine will be smart enough to limit my search ...
Goggle Guide: An interactive tutorial on searching with Google.
http://www.googleguide.com/
I have recently been introduced to Dogpile which seems to be a very good search engine. Although it is not a search engine in and of itself, it brings the results of the leading search engines. It also has a toolbar and includes a running news update.
Many years back I was looking for U2 - Best Of Video and on of the links in the first page took me to a Porn site ??????????
So some people have been burying popular search text in their sites for years