Internet Connection (not) Sharing

I have three computers all running Windows 98 SE. They were purchased in December 1999 and arrived with network cards. A network was immediately set up among the three and it has been working fine (except the time that the three cards were fried by a lightning strike to the building three years ago – but that’s another story).

I also set them up as a host and two clients using Internet Connection Sharing. Additionally, all three have modems and have individual dial-up capabilities. When the host is connected to the net the two clients have the ability to access the web through the host rather than additional dial-ups.

This configuration was set up in December 1999 (I mention this because I cannot remember details of the set up procedure after these four years) and there has been no problem(s) of any kind since then.

Last Friday, everything was working fine. However, on Monday three problems arose that I suspect are related:

1) The clients cannot access the internet through the host yet all three can use their individual dial-up connections with no problems.

2) When the host connects to the internet through dial-up, it tries to connect to a Hotmail account through Microsoft Messenger but the following message occurs: "We could not sign you into MSN Messenger. It appears you are behind a firewall that does not allow direct connection to the Internet. We tried to sign you in through an HTTP proxy, but your Internet Explorer proxy settings are either missing or incorrect. To adjust your IE proxy settings, click the IE Tools menu, click Internet Options, click the Connections tab, and then click LAN Settings."

3) When the host connects to the internet through dial-up, the program “Dimension 4” (a time synchronization program) generates the following message: “The request timed out. Ensure that your network is functioning properly and try again.”

The host was running ZoneAlarm but disabling it results in no change. It’s not running on the host currently.

I tried un-installing ICS on the host and re-installing it but that also results in no change.

No new software has been installed in a number of weeks.

I’ve searched the web and see that people have had problem #2 but the cause seemed to be a problem with Microsoft’s servers.

I assume that all these three problems are related.

Has anyone else had similar problems? Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions? Anything would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance, Terry.

Hi!

Note that throughout I am presuming from what you wrote that you have NO working Internet access of any kind at present from the host PC. With this in mind...

The problem with your Client PCs is likely merely a reflection of the fact that your ICS Host has lost Internet connectivity.

First off, check to see that ZoneAlarm is completely uninstalled and I would also uninstall ICS from the Host. Aim to get things working without them before you reinstall either.

Next check the IE Proxy settings as you described on the Host and ensure it is not trying to go through a proxy.

Next you need to check what sort of connectivity you do or do not have from the Host on dialing up. Each step presumes the preceding one was successful:

1) Check you can ping your Client PCs from the Host.

2) Find a working website you can successfully ping by IP address from one of your working Client PCs (via its own net connection) and then try pinging the same IP from your Host PC over its modem.

3) Now try pinging the same website from the Host but this time by name rather than IP.

Let us know what happens and we can take things further as required. If you need any clarification of any step, let me know.

Best wishes,

Andrew

Sorry I wasn't clear about connectivity ...

All three computers are able to connect to the net through their individual dial-up procedures.

However, when the "host" machine dials-up, the "client" machines cannot see the internet through the "host".

I thought the HOTMAIL and DIMENSION 4 problems might be connected to the clients' not seeing the net through the host since all three problems occured simultaneously.

With HOTMAIL complaining about a firewall (even when ZONE ALARM is disabled) I thought there might be a switch mis-set somewhere that also blocks the clients from seeing the net through the host.

I'll take your suggestion to uninstall ZONE ALARM rather than just shutting it down and see what happens.

Thanks.

Hi!

Ah so the host machine can access the net correctly itself apart from the 2 apps you mention? ie you can surf websites from there?

If so, then either ICS is broken, or there is a firewall issue. A firewall could prevent both the ICS Clients and the apps you mention on the Host from working. Shut down ZoneAlarm and uninstall it with Add/Remove Programmes.

If you rule out a firewall then I would uninstall ICS, delete the Internet connection from Dial-Up Networking, reinstall the net connection and then reinstall ICS!

It seems unlikely that both the Client machines could have had their ICS-related settings spontaneously misconfigured at once so I'm sure the fault is in the Host machine!

Best wishes,

Andrew

Thanks, Andrew.

This is what I've done so far (on the host machine):

1) Un-installed Zone Alarm, Microsoft Messenger and Dimention 4.
2) Un-installed ICS.
3) Un-installed by dial-up connection.

4) Re-installed my dial-up connection.
5) Re-installed ICS.

I then dialed out on the host but did not open ANY internet-related software (ie, Explorer, Outlook, etc).

I tried to get email on a client machine. But nothing happens. Nothing happens in the browser either.

The "internet" icon in the host machine's tray showed activity both to and from the net. In fact, the status of the icon showed bytes being received and sent (I assume by the client, no?).

Additionally, the ICS icon in the host's tray showed "3 machines are sharing the internet connection".

This HAS to be the host's problem but I don't know where else to look.

PS> I ran Norton yesterday and it showed no viruses. I'll run Ad-Aware later today when I'm at lunch.

Hi Terry!

First off check that IE works normally on the Host now.

Check your clients network cards are configured to get their IP and DNS settings from a DHCP server (ie automatically).

If this does not work, try giving them static IPs in the range 192.168.0.z where z is >1. Also statically configure their DNS servers to be 192.168.0.1 and their default gateway should be that as well. The Host PC should be 192.168.0.1

Finally check the Clients' IE proxy settings - tell them not to use a proxy.

Best wishes,

Andrew

Yes, Andrew, IE works on the host.

I'm not sure where to check the network card configuration for the clients. Is this the TOOLS | INTERNET OPTIONS | CONNECTIONS | SETTINGS path to the Automatic Configuration question? If so, it's been set to "Automatically detect settings" on all three machines.

As to changing the DNS servers ... do you mean the PRIMARY DNS and the SECONDARY DNS server addresses in the TCP/IP settings section of the SERVER TYPES tab of the dial-up icon? If so, don't these refer to our ISP's DNS settings? The clients have to be able to dial up by themselves without going through the host. If I change these, will they still be able to dial-up directly?

Or, are you refering to a different "address" setting?

As you can see, I'm a little confused here.

Thanks,

Terry

Hi!

Quote:

---

I'm not sure where to check the network card configuration for the clients.

---

On the Clients, Open Control Panel - Network and look for the TCP/IP binding in the list that is bound to the network card (not the one bound to the dial up adapter). In there you can manually configure DNS and the IP address for the card. Set the Primary DNS Server to 192.168.0.1. Your Dial-up adapter when active should get a DNS server allocated to it by your ISP for when the Client dials instead of the Host.
The only confusion that comes to mind is that of the Default Gateway. I'm sure for ICS to work you would need the default gateway on the Clients to point to the Host machine. If you then dial to the Net from the Client you need the default gateway to be at the ISP not the Host...! I think this is sorted out by the dial-up networking entry itself (I think there's an option in there that is enabled by default called something like "use default gateway on remote network").

Unfortunately I've never had a Win98 ICS networking with Clients that also dial-out myself to be more certain of all this. :-(

Good luck!

Best wishes,

Andrew

Andrew, you're a saviour. It works!

I manually configured the DNS server to include the host address (192.168.0.1). The primary and secondary addresses of my ISP were already there - I just added the host's to the list.

I left all other settings alone.

I think that it must have been a fluke that this worked before at all. I don't remember doing anything remotely like this.

Oh well, the important thing is that it's working now.

Again, many, many thanks, Andrew. If you're ever in Chicago, you'll get a dinner from me.

And thanks for sites like this!

Sorry, Andrew, but I'll have to rescind this dinner offer.

Everything was fine this morning, but everything reverted to the problem state this afternoon.

Nothing was installed. No changes were made.

I just un-installed the Dimension & MS messenger software, un-installed Zone Alarm and un-installed ICS on the host.

I re-installed Dimension, MS messenger & Zone Alarm WITHOUT re-installing ICS.

I still get problems with Dimension & Messenger trying to access the web.

I'll worry about this next week. I've spent too much time this week tying up 2 computers on this f*cking problem.

D'OH!!

Sorry to hear it's gone pear-shaped again.
The issue with MSN Messenger and your timesync app sound like a misconfigured firewall. These instructions relate solely to the Host PC:
Open the Programs list in ZoneAlarm and ensure both MSN Messenger and Dimension have been granted permission to both access the Internet and act as a Server.
The other thing to check is the Internet vs Trusted Zones. Once connected to the net, ensure your dial-up connection has being added to the Internet Zone and that the network card is in the Trusted Zone.

Best wishes,

Andrew

Dear Andrew,

Well, it's "next week" and I'm back at this problem.

On the host:

1) Uninstalled ZoneAlarm, Time Synch program, MS Messenger & ICS.

2) Re-installed ICS (only).

Still couldn't access through client.

Then I had a brainstorm (it hurts but sometimes it's helpful): Since the client's IP address was manually configured on it's network card, I decided to manually configured the host's IP address on it's network card.

Voila - everything works both on the host and on the client.

Installed Zone Alarm and the Time Synch program on the host.

Everything still works! Though I had to configure the Time Synch on the host's Zone Alarm to be a "trusted server" whereas on the client it's not. Go figure.

I just hope my celebration is not premature as Friday's was.

I haven't got to installing MS Messenger yet, but I assume that would be not problem. Actually, it's not that important that I have it on the host.

It seems to me that maybe the automatic IP network addressing failed the other week.

I did notice that there are a number of threads going on about networks that are no longer working. I wonder if one of Microsoft's recent Windows's patches had something to do with these newtork problems.

Anyway, thanks again Andrew. The dinner offer is back on.

Hi!

Glad to hear it's behaving itself! Hope it stays that way for you. Perhaps you can upload me dinner...!!

Best wishes,

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

Well, things are not quite back to normal but I'm not going to complain.

The ICS is working fine. I have one client working but have not set up the second client. I'll do that later today but don't forsee any problems.

The time synch program (Dimension 4) has reverted to the "firewall" problem which Microsoft Messenger still exhibits ... but I don't care since they are not critical whereas the ICS is.

I'll look for other IM and time synch software and see if I can get them to work. Any suggestions or recommendations?

Also, I'll keep my eye out for a dinner I can upload to you.

Thanks, again.

Just an update on this problem ... which resurfaced last week.

After trying a number of things (including switching the ICS master and slave computers) I delved into ZoneAlarm's HELP menu and discovered a buried gem:

ZoneAlarm does not support ICS (at least the free version)!

I uninstalled ZoneAlarm from the machines and everything is running fine.

So I guess that the last 5 years of running ICS and ZoneAlarm has been a long-running fluke.

I'll spend the next few days looking at firewalls that run with ICS. Any suggestions?

Hi!

Yikes how frustrating. Well I'm glad you've solved the mystery now.
ZoneAlarm Plus/Pro support ICS.

Best wishes,

Andrew

Yes, I'm downloading a demo of ZA PRO now.

I'm also downloading a version of Kerio's firewall to test. I never heard of this one before.

I seem to remember something called TINY FIREWALL or some such thing. I may search for it also.

I've previously tried Sygate on someone's recommendation but when I ran SHIELDS-UP against it, it looked like Swiss cheese - many, many ports left open.

It's baaaaaack ....

A few weeks ago, this problem re-surfaced. So, I decided to switch the host with one of the clients.

I removed ICS from the host and reinstalled it on the client. I read Microsoft's Knowledge Base Article 238135 (How to Troubleshoot Internet Connection Sharing Problems) and followed all it's advice such as assigning static IP addresses on the host & client machine.

Things went well for a few days and then the client could not see through the host to the web.

One of the sections of the article states "Without a proper IP address, the client will be unable to communicate with the Host computer. If the client computer does not obtain an IP address from the Host, the DHCP service may be disabled. To enable the DHCP service on the Host computer ..." and then asks me to "install" the file "DHCP_on.inf" from the Windows 98 CD-ROM and then restart Windows.

This works every time the client cannot see the web through the host - about 1/2 the time. I've copies this DHCP-on.inf file to the host's desktop so it can be more easily run.

Why is this "installation" failing to stick?

Is there a way (other than manually) to have this install of the inf file done whenever the host shuts down so? Is there another way to insure this installation?

Thanks in advance,

Terry

[PS> I've given up on running a firewall with ICS. I've looked at Kerio and TinyFirewall but they're both demos. Sygate installs but gets flaky with ICS. And, ZoneALarm's documentation says it won't work with ISC either.]

Hi!

I've no idea why you're experiencing such a peculiar problem.
Why not configure the IP addresses of the machines manually since there are not that many of them? Set the host IP and mask to 192.168.0.1, 255.255.255.0 and then configure the clients with different address from the same subnet and ensure they all have a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0 and a gateway and DNS server address of 192.168.0.1.
Statically configured like this it shouldn't matter if the DHCP Allocator goes pear shaped on the host!

Worth a go....?!
Best wishes,

Andrew

PS. ZoneAlarm Plus and Pro support ICS but the Free version does not.

Actually, the IP addresses are configured statically. The client uses the host IP address as it's gateway and the host IP address is the first in the client's list of DNS servers (our ISP is the second).

It makes no sense to me.

Whenever the client can not see the host, installing DHCP_ON.INF on the host and restarting windows seems to fix the problem.

Hmm!

That's odd. If wonder if that Inf is doing something other than just DHCP - maybe installing NAT components or the DNS Proxy. With an entirely static IP configuration it shouldn't matter if DHCP dies.

I've just been trying to find how to install an INF from the command line - you could then add the requisite command to a startup key in the registry. After a quick websearch I've found a method pertaining to Win2000. Perhaps it works on Win98 too?
http://www.win2ktech.com/faq/faqs4/r...htm#registry17
I presume the bit at the end of the line is the path to the file. Not sure what the 128 is though.

In your position I'd be installing WinGate instead!!
Best wishes,

Andrew

Thanks Andrew.

You link gives the following as a line command to install a INF file:

C:\> rundll32 syssetup,SetupInfObjectInstallAction DefaultInstall 128 .\.inf

I assume that ".\." is somehow the path to the "inf" file but I don't know the form. Do I use "c:\..\..\dhcp_on.inf" or something else?

I also found the following as a line command to shut down windows 98:

C:\windows\rundll.exe user.exe,exitwindows

Since a windows restart has to follow the installation of the dhcp_on, it needs to be installed on shutdown not on startup. Is there a way to make a windows desktop shortcut with TWO command lines - one for the INF install and one for the shutdown. I know how to create a shortcut with a one-line command but don't know if there is a way to have two lines of code.

Thanks again,

I can't believe I'm so stupid.

Of course I know how to create a multiple line batch file .... DUH. I still have a few BASIC programs that I run through batch files within Windows. There's no reason those file could not have 2 command lines and be accessed through a shortcut on the desktop.

What I don't know is what format to use as a path to the INF file ... but I guess I could just try it.

Andrew, I spoke too soon.

I can create a multi-line batch file. But when I try to run it through a shortcut on the desktop, Windows balks at trying to shut down with a DOS window still open.

I guess I could use 2 command line shortcuts - one to install the INF file and the other to do the actual shutdown.

Well, I tried a shortcut with:

c:\windows\rundll32 syssetup,SetupInfObjectInstallAction DefaultInstall 128 c:\data\shutdown\dhcp_on.inf

and one with

c:\windows\rundll32 syssetup,SetupInfObjectInstallAction DefaultInstall 128 data\shutdown\dhcp_on.inf

Both times, windows says it cannot find the file.

The file is located "c:\data\shutdown\dhcp_on.inf" so I don't know what else to try.

What form of the path should I be using? As you can tell, I'm not very versed in DOS.

Upon closer inspection, it is the file "syssetup" that cannot be found.

Maybe this won't work for Win98.

Hi!

Yeah looks as though that's not going to work. There ought to be a Win98 equivalent though, but that was the only match I got on a websearch.

Best wishes,

Andrew

Thanks Andrew.

I've been searching the web for comments on the DHCP file(s) but began wondering ...

The third machine on this ICS network has ALWAYS worked through the network no matter what settings the other machines had or no matter which machine was the host.

So I printed it's network settings out.

It's IP ADDRESS setting is set to AUTOMATIC, it uses DHCP for WINS resolution, has no GATEWAY and does have the host IP address as the first DNS SERVER SEARCH.

So, I changed my machine (client) to an automatic IP address setting.

Didn't have to re-install DHCP on the host to get the client to see the net.

So far so good. We'll see how much longer this works.

I guess it's a matter of trial and error here.

Thanks for your continued help.

Terry,

Wish I had seen this posting earlier as I could have saved you some headaches. Went through this exact sort of problem about a year ago. Same conclusion: ZA Free doesn't support ICS. My solution was to download Kerio firewall as it is free for up to 5 PCs I believe. Been working great all that time except when the host contracted MSBlast because my daughter turned off the virus checker last August while I was on vacation. So if you haven't put money down for ZA, you cann save the $40 or whatever the current fee is.

Thanks J.

I tried Kerio and had problems with it. Of course, those problems could have been with ICS and not with Kerio.

My main concern at this point is getting ICS to work correctly. Once I'm sure that it's working I'll address the firewall problem. And I'll take your recommendation and start with Kerio though Sygate finally did work well - until the ICS problem resurfaced.

They're talking about installing a T1 line here to alleviate this problem (and cut down cost of the computers having to dial up individually all day long) but there's a fourth computer that would have to be hooked up and I NEVER could get it working with the current network setup.

That's another headache!

Thanks again for the help here. The only "expertise" I have on networking comes from this forum and programs on the cable station TECH-TV yet I'm expected to solve all these problems by, to quote my boss, "pushing the right button".

If you want an online "How to Network Anything to Anything Else", try Johannes Helmig Network site,. He's tried about every combination of getting PC to talk together with lots of different OSs. He presents the material in an understandable form for us non-experts :)

I usually keep the virus checkers and firewalls turned off until you are sure it's working. Yes, it's a gamble that you might come down with a nasty but I make sure I only check out known good site while checking it out (i.e. VDr) and do not access my email until the protection is in place.

Thanks, J.

I'll try Helmig's settings.

Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of staying off the web while this is going on. This is a network of 3 business computers that HAVE to be operating and connected to the web.

We've been without firewalls since mid December though our anti-virus programs are running fine. I guess we've been running lucky without the firewalls.