Continued from here.
Pages loading slow. Do not want to lose them.
Let us carry on.
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[This message has been edited by Train (edited 10-27-2001).]
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Continued from here.
Pages loading slow. Do not want to lose them.
Let us carry on.
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[This message has been edited by Train (edited 10-27-2001).]
what is the latest update on Goose....he popped in for a second but disappeared again.
Bet GG1 is saving every page, word for word, that was posted since last night.
A minute, more like a week.
Thanks for the help today.
Crazy how litttle things can make one fuss. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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Nope, here I am.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Had to tuck granddaughters in. What a crew you are. My heratfelt thanks to each and everyone of you. We did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The build took with sleeping included 26 hrs. 11 minutes which included posting. There is a wealth of information in the threads that we can all use.
BT's CPU temperature is running at 36.5 degrees C. Operation is stable thus far. The general setup list Bistro provided is a keeper and if you are going to build print it. That list saved a lot of time as it was a road map.
Bistro, DrMDJ, Sarkazztic, QoH, all said there would be glitches and to watch for them. They were so right. It was simple things that gave us problems. Lets review a little.
Putting the parts together and working with the case was easy. THe INWin S500 was very nice to work with. I mounted the rails on the CRROM drive and 3.5 Floppy Drive and slid them in so when it was time to attach the cables I slid the units out the front and plugged the cables in. Then slid them vback in. The hard drive case goes in and comes out slicker than a whistle. The MOBO was easy to install. Installing the CPU and HSF made me a little apprehensive though.
The first glitch was when the power was applied to BT it would came up and go back down in a few seconds. The correct procedure for this is to turn power on on the back of the unit and then when it goes down push the power switch on the front.
When I initially tried to Fdisk and Format, I miskeyed and set up the fist drive on 24MB. I forgot to add the % sign also. This gave a symptom of a bad boot sector and I was about to condemn the HD. But in talking with Train something clicked in my mind and I ran the HD Western Digital Data Liufeguard Tools and ran the diagnostic tests which also will repair your HD. It worked. Something I did corrupted the HD.
Could not get the CDROM up and using the same type of troubleshooting techniques we had been using found a bent pin on the IDE Primary board connector.
After that it was clear sailing and Windows 98SE was installed in about 25% of the time it normally takes.
From this, it shows that "little things" usually cause the most problems.
I am going to have two separate systems networked together. But I want a 19" monitor. So will try and find an el cheapo in the meantime.
We have to install the sound card, the second 40GB HD when i get it back out of the Compaq, and even though I will be networking I think a modem for safety's sake. When I get the burner from Jaak, it goes in also.
I will find my receipts and post the list of components as soon as I can but not tonight.
I will review ya'alls qustions and answer them also.
This configuration of computers will allow me to do alot of things I couldn't previously do. And I am looking forward to it. The IN Win cases ease of working makes a good test bed for some of the things I have in mind.
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[This message has been edited by greengoose1 (edited 10-27-2001).]
please at least wait a while before you go makeing BT a test machine....turn the compaq into a test machine or something....once you get BT all configured the way you want put a lock on the case.....
Nice summary, GG1. I'm just so tickled about this that....well, it's like the Master said to me:
My son, the trials and tribulations that cometh with building a computer paleth against the new found joy of it's culmination. Tell the masses to seek that joy. And when they asketh of thee for advice; my recommendation to thee is keep thy mouth shut and just giveth them links.
(You can see how much I really learned from him...;D)
Will check back tomorrow--has been one H of a day here in the Capitol area. Goodnight All.
[This message has been edited by bistro (edited 10-27-2001).]
Goosed stressed are here
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I built myself a test/gaming machine for under 100 bucks so far so that I would not be tempted to crack open that antec sx-830 and do any thing that could cause me to have to format and reinstall!! I do all my testing in the other machine and if it is something that I may want to do in my athlon machine after I ran all tests then I put it in there....remember the fiasco I had with the promise card...I will never go through that mess again in my main machine....I finally got it working in the test machine and figured out what I had to do to get it to work in the the athlon.....maybe I am being to cautionary but better safe than sorry.
Oh by the way we are all very proud of you....
36.5 degrees...awesome..... is that temp reading in the bios or did you install the asus temperature utility for this reading? Did B or T recommend for you to download either rain 2.0 or cpu idle when you get all configured? when I first powered up my athlon it got up around 50 degrees...but I was using a cheap case with the vent holes in the sides left open and the oem hsf....powercooler was the brand I think...it didnt stay on there but a few days....upgraded to the vantec cck-6035d very loud DELTA fan....cannot reccommend this fan to people who are bothered by noise........
Sarkazztic, the temp reading came from the BIOS.
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Hi
I seemingly dropped off the earth yesterday.
should have explained it was a long day, and have to work early shift.
got up one hour too early too, plumb forgot the switch to wintertime.
yetsreday I was posting elsewhere, wanted to run hwinfo /ui and system froze.
I shut down and did not look back until now.
hwinfo /ui reports about machine in printable format
gotta go to the plant...
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I think we forgot to ask you a question...
Kind regards, Jaak
well within specs and should lower itself once you have had the machine running a while and the thermal paste sets into the hsf....also you are planning on buying a case exhaust fan and maybe a slot fan to help cool that video card correct? those will help to reduce that temp a few degrees too......I know that Dr.Mdj says to not put much stock in bios temps or Motherboard monitor temps but my 1.2ghz is running at 22degrees...converted that is 71 degrees...the current ambient temp in the room is 60 degrees....I am using cpu idle too which has helped bring my temps down about 10 degrees from what they were before I downloaded the program.....reminds me I have to register that one soon....Is Rain 2.0 readily available and is it freeware or shareware?...
I will have lots of questions for you over the next few weeks....I am particularly interested in the Geforce video card....thinking about buying one and am weighing your experience with it as my deciding factor..
sarrkazztic
Talked him into BIOS for the reading. Very pleasant surprise. Of course It is underclocked right now, need to get the feel of it and make the changes. Went a little conservative. On purpose. May have to jumper him to allow jumper free mode to get it all the way up to 1.1GB. Need to do some thorough reading of past post, So I know what was set.
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good temp.
what results I got on the second athlon I built was similar.
used taisol cooler, and good paste rather than this thermal meld pinkish stuff. (it looks like that base putty I saw Ma use on her face. some Intel coolers used a whitish pad...)
non booter?
first thing to look for would be HDD LED orientation, and power LED / switch orientation.
next thing to look at was speed selector for memory.
but hey, it runs...
we have a gosling...
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I think we forgot to ask you a question...
Kind regards, Jaak
what speed is it running at???
Hi Jaak, Yep, BT runs.
Sarkazztic, The vid card is not the most expensive you can buy, but I think it will do what I want. Time will tell. Got a lot of tweaking and peaking to do but I am pleased with the results so far.
oops, haven't checked the speed yet.
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[This message has been edited by greengoose1 (edited 10-28-2001).]
I know it is not the most expensive....you say you work a little behind the cutting edge....well I work on the frugal side. : )
I am just wanting better video performance than the savage 4 32mb card I have....I get a little pixelation while watching streaming video and dvd's especially if I run them in full screen mode......my 3dmark scores are between 1400 and 1500 and I have heard of people getting around 4000 on those geforce cards....I may look into the card that train put into jr too as I believe he posted a 5000 score at least once.... is this correct Train?
Over 5k, 6450 I believe was the highest. Then when I change from the 7 to the 8.0a to run 3d2001 things fell out for me. Around 4500 -4800 now.
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Sarkazztic. that is why I work behind the cutting edge is because of money. LOL
Nite All
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I am still running directx 7 havent found a need to do the upgrade to 8.0a yet...
gg1,
GREAT JOB. I am very happy for you.
Just make sure before little baby "BT" goes out into the world (WWW) he gets his shots (AV). https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
and by the way that was a great catch on the fdisk problem and a bent pin.
i've been checking in all day just to see how things were going and i have to admit around 1:00 or so i thought bt wasn't gonna make it, not without surgery anyway.
if i had problems with both the cdrom and hdd; i would have probibly suspected the mobo chipset was bad and then thrown the thing off the roof. but then i would have realized how much it costs and held back at the last second so i could exchange it. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
anyway all is GREAT news and i hope the rest of the loading goes well.
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it's just a jump to the left....
also 36 deg C strait out of the blocks is very impressive. hopefully with the help of b/t/big s/QoH,ET'al you will get it down even further.
i'm interested in "cpu idle" and "rain" also, i hope you keep us up to date with your progress on that part as well. i would like to get my temps down too. but not as low as Big S, too d@mn cold in his office for me. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
sarrkazztic, is cpu idle shareware or freeware. where can i get it?
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it's just a jump to the left....
[This message has been edited by onedaddycat (edited 10-28-2001).]
http://www.cpuidle.de/
Everything went well. Everybody is HAPPY.
Congratulation Goose YOU did IT.
Once again, CONGRATS Goose!
Now that the dust has settle a bit...
On this temperature stuff... Sarrkasstic, it's not that I say don't put much stock in temp readings, not at all. You definately want to keep processors (and systems) properly cooled. The point I try to make is that once you get temperatures down to certain levels (and/or keep them within certain levels) then decreasing them further doesn't buy one anything in "practical" terms. When temperatures are at certain levels the system doesn't run any faster, more error free, or more stable when you lower them further. And in terms of longevity, again it's a matter of practicality. There's no real data available to say "if you run an AMD 1 ghz athlon at 100F vs 80F it will last 5 years longer". And given all the variables/variations that come in to play it isn't practical to have such data on various system configurations. But beyond that... Today's processors (in normal/typical use) aren't really "that" fragile. Under normal use, and if operated within the guidelines set forth by the manufactureres (who's temp numbers are generally well above what most people target for and/or achieve), they will last quite a while. Now add to that the reality of how long people keep the same processor/system today before they upgrade. So (if being conservative) if dropping one's temperture from 100F to 80F increases the life of the processor from 8 to 12 years, does it matter? Very likely not. Again, there is no real data on cpu lifespan, but my point is I think there is sufficient data to say most cpus, if operated within specs, will far outlast the user's need for them.
People get obsessed with cpu temperature. Even a couple/few degrees. And for the average user (which most are) it is not buying them anything from a practical standpoint. Keep in mind, most of the temperature and cooling stuff ya see comes from and relates to overclocking, "real" extreme overclocking. We're not talkin' people that run a 1 ghz athlon at 1080 or 1100 mhz here. That's peanuts, basically within design spec. The "overclockers" push the envelope. If it's the true overclocking that one's talking about then much more attention needs to be paid to cooling. But for the typical user... I'm not saying "don't worry and run at the max temp the manufacturer say's you can". Simply that a) you (speaking generically) don't have to run at (say) 71F, and b) different people/systems can run in a range of temperatures and all be fat and happy for a duration that will meet their needs.
The fact that you've got your system running at 71F is great. Would it really matter if it were 85F? Very little. With a room temp of 60F you have a base to start from that many don't. By default, you can't (barring extrodinary measures like water coolers, etc) it isn't possible to get the system/cpu temp below room temp (really, several degrees higher). So those with warmer climates/rooms have no hope of achieving your temps. Does it mean by default their systems won't last as log as yours. Perhaps so. But you may have to wait 10 or 15 years to find out. Then again, perhaps not. And almost assuredly not if they can manage to keep temps within certain levels.
So I'm not saying ignore temps/cooling (though I will say that temp monitors (hard and soft) can produce varying and "somewhat" inaccurate readings). All I'm saying is for people to be practical. "Lower" isn't always meaninfull.
On software coolers (rain, cpuidle, etc)... There's also WPCREDIT and WPRSET that are free and can be used. On systems that have a lot of idle time (which most home systems do) they can indeed help cool things down. However, when the system is being driven hard and continuous they don't/can't do a thing. Their effectiveness and need depends on the system in question, the bios revision, the chipset and the chipset drivers in use. And on many systems temperatures can be tamed/reduced simply by using a diffrent driver set or bios revision (The A7V is one where the bios revision has a temperature impact, which is why I asked Goose what revision he was at). But where needed (and applicable) these software coolers can help. But as said above, when a system is being driven hard they are not the answer, and no substitute for "real" hardware solutions.
Ok, let me climb off that soapbox. Sorry for sidetracking things...
So goose,
Right now you have no cards (other than video) in your machine. As I recall what you will have eventual (some sooner, some later) will be your sound card, a network card, a modem card, and a scsi card (for Jaak's burner you're getting). Yesterday, (in one of the threads) I posted a list of the IRQ sharing/assignment that goes on with your motherboard. As I've said previously, you might want to take a look at that and figure your card placement (now and planned) with what's gonna get what in mind. It may allow you to save some conflict/sharing/performance issues from coming up. Just a thought.
This thing is underclocked now? To what, why?
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[This message has been edited by DrMDJ (edited 10-28-2001).]
Good Morning All. BT is doing well - stable. Anything improvements to BT will be posted as they are made. BT is as much yours as mine and his home is Operation Delta.
Sarkazztic, BT is big enough and has enough drives to do a lot with it and to try "stuff". Train and I have some tentative projects to do that we've talked about.
logowriter, you said you got lost yesterday at one point. Please post any questions you may have. I, nor the others were ignoring you, but at that time it was a little "hairy". The glitches were upon us. You posted some nice "stuff".
I've been thinking about..........Be back in awhile. LOL
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DrMDJ
Just to BT up, I had GG1 leave the DRAM Frequency at 100 instead of changing it to 133 and also there is the question of the CPU jumper settings that I did/do not know. Easily fixed. Just like to be a dash conservative the first day or two until I get the feel for the temperature business.
Also there is a bunch of stuff in Shadow Configuration to verify the settings of.
That takes time to go through and nothing to worry about right off the bat.
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Ahhh...
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logo cpu idle is shareware that has to be registered after 30 days...I think it is 20 dollars to register....
Doc sorry I think I left my post unclear about your saying not to pay to much stock to the temps....I was talking about what you said a while back about the accuracy of the temperature reading devices....you said and I paraphrase of course....most if not all software or bios based temperature reading elements would be at least 5-10 degrees off one way or the other due to the nature of the beast and the only true way to get an accurate measurement of system and cpu temps was to use something like a thermocouple mounted at the base of the cpu and close to the chipset for system temps...again sorry for not being clearer when I used your name as a source of information....hopefully this time I have conveyed it a little better for the people that are considering a future build of their own....
Goose..I do realize that BT is plenty big enough and you will eventually have 2 40 gig drives in him, all I was trying to say is maybe don't run tests with your primary hard drive in the computer.....maybe you would consider buying a smaller say 20 gig drive and loading the operating system on it and putting it in the machine when you want to do some type of test....not data recovery from the compaq drive or anything like that but if you are downloading things from the internet and installing them or anything that puts the machine at risk....granted you are more familiar with fdisk and format now than you were 2 days ago but once you get all your programs on BT and get him humming along with all the reg tweaks that MO is going to send you and get Myst on and have level 30 completed (I have no idea how many actual levels there are) you will not want to have to format and load all that stuff back on if an experiment goes awry....I am just trying to play the role of the cautious one here because I know first hand how frustrating it is to get a machine just right and then to download a new driver or something and have it all go to crap and the work it takes to get it back to the state it was before...
I am just saying be careful you have a sweet system in BT
DrMDJ, Just read your last thread, I will get that list for setting up the cards. Right now I'm sifting through everything and trying to get it all in it's proper place in my mind.
Train answered on the underclock. Be back.
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Goose
This is just a suggestion....but Doc pointed out yesterday that pci slot 3 is the only unshared slot on that board....I would reserve this slot for the SCSI card that you will need to run Jaaks CDRW may save you some headaches down the road...
Sarrkasstic,
No problem. I just wanted to make sure I had said clearly (not that I did this time) what I may have been saying (whichever of the 10000 times it was) when I said it.
Goose, no problem. Sort till your heart's desire.
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hmmm
okay,
I was not gonna, but since goose mentioned he took an offer I made him in private, I can just as well have our peers vent their opinions on this.
I won't say what I let it go for, and I don't want offers either.
_______
in a way its too bad, but I need the room for hard disks, and I already have a IDE burnproof plexwriter.
Also, I am changing over to DVD since I buy most of my software on DVD nowadays...
- - - - - - -
since this is gonna have to find a home in goose's machine(s) what you think about below?
there are pros and cons
maybe you can talk the goose out of this?
but you can most certainly point out the possibilities this opens, or the setbacks he might encounter.
- - - - - - -
I use(d) this SCSI burning system
One plexwriter 8/2/20 (scsi burner, NON-burnproof, but it has a good buffer...)
One ultraplex 40 (scsi CDromdrive)
One wide PCI SCSI card, adaptec 2940AU.
One SCSI hard-disk, Quantum fireball, 6.4GB
two ribbons,
One spare SCSI card, ISA,
(I no longer need it, and having two controllers opens plenty options... You can easily see one can use them things in two machines with this spare kit.)
==================
CONs
SCSI increases boot up times
(a bit like network cards...)
its noisy
older mobo may not differentiate between scsi and highpoint or promise... the raid capable mobo had the option for scsi and raidchip.
a non "raid" mobo with highpoint PCI controller would have trouble knowing which to boot of once its set to boot to scsi
(so goose is gonna have to look inBIOS...)
(the 2940 adaptor itself can be set bootable or non bootable)
I should look at the other ISA to refresh my memory on it...
= = = = =
are there PROs ?
The single one I thought of was that plextor burners have a fan in them, and weigh a ton
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I think we forgot to ask you a question...
Kind regards, Jaak
[This message has been edited by jtdoom (edited 10-28-2001).]
Sarkazztic, Thanks for the concern, but remember this. Before something is done on BT
besides normal operations it will be brought up and posted so nothing gets messed up.
Every one of you is a part of BT and have full rights, privelges, and perks. Hey we have just started on an adventure where "no person has gone before".
In this way people can watch, read, and learn what happens as a computer is improved, tweaked, modified, whatever. And thereby the Delta Crews knowledge will be able to help the greatest number of people through the operation Delta Threads.
We all have different levels of knowledge and here we can all come to gether to learn.
Delta = Dedicated to Excellence and Long Term Acheivement. Don't just read this, but think about it. It can help you in all things.
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Sarkazztic, Good point on the unshared PCI card and remember I have the Ultra ATA/100 PCI adaptor card. Gotta do a few things. Later.
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Jaak,
I don't know if you're saying goose is taking all those items, but... Also, don't know (and don't expect to know) the price their being offered at. That might factor in relative to other alternatives, but we'll put that aside.
The cdrom (PX-40TS): no real problem with that. A very good drive. A highly desired drive when it came out. High price was its leading drawback. Good performance, good audio extraction, will work nice in conjunction with the burner.
The burner (PX-W8220T: 2X rewrite is slow, painfull by today's standards. If goose is planning on doing a lot of cdrw stuff then... As a writer (for CD-R), 8X is also a bit slow. Not "dirt" slow, but... Actually, given it's a scsi and all it probably is equivalent to slightly faster IDE (that might not be able to burn at its full potential). More than likely for Goose's (and others) purposes it will be easily adequate (the speed). The buffer is decent (4meg I believe) and being that it is scsi it is guarenteed he will be able to write at 8X, even while doing other tasks on his PC. And it likely has capabilities exceeding the kind of stuff Goose will do with it (the type of burning/xcopying).
The hard drive: my only comment is why bother. But if he wants it...
The scsi card: fine.
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I don't think there'll be much of an issue with the 2940UA card. I use a 2940U2W card in a mavhine with a builtin HighPoint ATA 100 raid controller, and all that had to be set was the boot order. If you boot from the ATA controller you can't boot from the SCSI controller. This sets the order in which the drives/controllers are detected. Besides, if no bootable drive is set up in the SCSI bios (ctrl A) no bootable drive will be registered - no problemos..
Whether you should use a IRQ-sharefree PCI slot or not is a matter of taste. Sometimes a SCSI card may conflict with another device, sometimes it does not. The SCSI cards I use all share IRQs but doesn't cause any trouble because of this. So if you get a conflict, try the sharefree slot. If no conflict - well,....
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Karl, Denmark
---------
"..and may The Force be with you - too..."
Goose,
So you are planning to use the maxtor ata100 card? Getting tight there. Ya got 5 PCI slots and for (potential and current) cards ya got sound, 56k modem, network (one at least, maybe two down the road), scsi, ata100 pci.
And don't just think exclusively about which card you want in the unshared slot (which by the way, I'm not sure the manual correctly reflects what's what). Give thought to the placement of other cards and what all that will mean to the eventual irq sharing scheme. Some choices are always better than others, even if they are compromises.
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Yes I know you have the I think maxtor pci card that is an add on...however you have the promise built into the asus a7v also...you do not necessarily need to put the maxtor card in bt....you can already have 8 ide devices in BT.....however Jaaks CDRW will need to have the pci scsi card installed and that will go much easier in the unshared pci slot 3....I see he has a isa slot scsi card also....interesting....it could be installed in the compaq if there is physical room for that large scsi drive....I may be confused are you getting everything that is on that list from jaak...ie pci scsi card, scsi cdrw, isa scsi card, and the 6.4 gig scsi hard drive? very envious just for the testing purposes of course....but pay heed to jaaks comment about the scsi card adding boot up time...(he says kinda like a network card) I have the promise raid card in my machine and I have not counted the seconds while it is displaying its information but I think it is approx 20 seconds just for that and also add in the factor that I already had a network card for some delay and I believe you are going to do the network down the road abit so that is going to add to your boot time...although you are probably more patient than anyone I have seen so far as demonstrated by all of your efforts yesterday and the fact that as we were all looking towards Graham and did not see any parts flying out the window or down the stairs and I know they would have been had they been here in springfield oregon....that whole machine have found the business end of my Remington.. : ) so a few extra seconds at boot up for you will allow you to grab the cup of coffee before you get into whatever the night may hold for you...
Now if you are planning on putting the maxtor ultra pci100 card into BT this raises concerns...I like the idea that you could theoretically have 12 ide devices in the machine however that is overkill even in the more is better book....and the main concern is putting that card in the machine AND the Scsi card that will control the cdrw and possibly the 6.4 gig drive....oh what the hey...this is going to be interesting...all in the name of science.....
Thanks DOC for the picture of Gene Wilder in Young Frankenstein yesteday I got a big laugh out of that....Its ALIIIIIIIVE....too funny.....it may be abby normal but very funny
The Maxtor ATA card is in a hold pattern. It is going into the Compaq, or was Just noted the ISA scsi card comment and he has those slots in the compaq. Hmmm.
Ideasssssssssss. Remember the 30GB limitation. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
The A7V mobo solved that problem in BT.
Get BT running the way he wants, monitor abilities, network, Get into and save stuff off of the BigFoot.
Kind of what I believe he wants to get done in the near [before New Years day] future.
Maybe not in that order, but the way he posts them https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ sounds more formitable.
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