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Operation Delta 3 - 003
Had to start this one as Operation Delta 3-002 quit as we went to page three of the thread.
Thanks for heads up DrMDJ. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
For those of you reading for the first time I am attempting to build the third Operation Delta computer who has been named BT. At the present time the original list of components is being upgraded with a "little help" from the expert computer gurus we have available. And dear reader do be careful what you ask because you always get the answer in great abundance. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ But do ask if you have a question on what you are doing. These computer heads have forgotten more than most of us will ever learn. 'Nuff said.
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[This message has been edited by greengoose1 (edited 09-04-2001).]
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Can we have Steve locked 002 from further posts in hopes that what's there will be preserved as is? That way a link to it can just be provided here, in 003 (cut and pasting the text in is real messy) and be assured 002 will remain valid/viewable.
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I think it locked itself and I'll save it in its entirety when I get home.
Steve R Jones, Please lock this thread ( the Operation Delta 3-002), when you read this. Want to see what happens. It maybe we will want to do it on all in the future to keep the threads intact on VirDr even though I have them saved. Thanks GG1
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[This message has been edited by greengoose1 (edited 09-04-2001).]
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Then for reference... The goings on of Operation Delta 003 - 002 can be viewd here.
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DrMDJ
Email Steve. He has done it for me.
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Bistro,
I have to second what you (last) said in the previous Delta 3 thread. Benchmarks have their place, but they must be kept in perspective. First, they don't necessarily reflect what can be expected/gotten in real-life experience. But beyond that, you do start to get in to the realm of whether there is in fact a perceptable or practical difference between this or that. Often people will claim they can see the difference in, say, a difference of a few FPS or a few nano seconds. But the truth is that if they were given a placebo test they would probably fail. And when it comes to multitasking, having umpteen things open is different than actively and simultaneously using them.
The truth is that the state of the technology is currently far above the ability of most home users to fully utilize it on any sort of sustained basis. People are simply addicted to this stuff.
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[This message has been edited by DrMDJ (edited 09-04-2001).]
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Train, will do.
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The truth is that the state of the technology is currently far above the ability of most home users to fully utilize it on any sort of sustained basis. People are simply addicted to this stuff.
Very, very true. Most of us, can get by just fine with 500MHZ cpu and 128MB of ram.
But, for the bigger is better virus https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ and go along with it. I hear it is uncureable. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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Kinda like people who say they need a soundcard that faithfully (re)produces frquencies above 20khz. Yet they encode MP3s with an encoder that (unknown to them) cuts all frequecies above 16khz and they say it's the best. Perception and reality: two different things.
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Thar ye be...perception and reality. BTW, thanks for the DDR insight. Thanks, but no thanks--an average of 5 to 10% ain't enough to get me to spend the bucks. Gonna wait for the Intel Socket 478 to come out later this year and see which mobo/chipset manufacturer puts it to the better use. It will be interesting.....
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Anyway...
GG1,
If you're going the KT7-RAID route I assume you've looked through the viahardware faq over yonder for relevant info.
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I know I came down hard on the P4s before, but that's before I saw this workhorse. On a price/performance basis I'm sure it has few equals. And rumor has it is is highly underclockable. Besides, it fits your budget perfectly. And Maxx would be so happy. Please give it due consideration. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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[This message has been edited by DrMDJ (edited 09-04-2001).]
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Wise words are being spoken on this thread.
DrMDJ, I am reading as quickly as I can. I think I have opened a can of worms but it was important to go through for the readers so that they are aware of what is there. It is also important to remember that we have to cover the details so new builders don't have to guess. They have to have something they can grab hold of and refer to. A basic knowledge base if you will. I am glad I'm going through this exercise since with The QoH's and Train's computers I was there but followed along more than anything else.
Everytime I think I'm getting somewhere you all blow me away with even more goodies of knowledge. Which is good. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
Be back. Need to save some "stuff".
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Thank you DrMDJ...it brings a tear to this computer-weary eye to see that machine...LOL https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
I am going to bring the Emachine over, right now, to this monitor and let it have a look at it's cousin. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
Remember folks....HP just bought out Compaq, which doesn't leave many brands left on the shelves at Best Buy and Circuit City. When the smoke clears...it might just leave Emachines in charge. Imagine that... https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
BTW...just got back from Best Buy with some new hardware for the emachine. She might just fly again. I'll let you know. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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Hell hath no fury like a computer scorned.
MAXXIMILIAN'S
[This message has been edited by maxximilian (edited 09-04-2001).]
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Maxx
"She might just fly again"
What did you get a Pratt-Whitney radial 16 for 3400HP
GG1
Looks like you want to be a platter spinner I see. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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That E-Machine looks really cool! Wow! What a deal!! Oh.....it's got AOL on it....never mind....
https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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bistro
After a restore you would only spend a hour uninstalling and deleteing stuff [junk] ask Maxx
And you will know where he lived by the mushroom cloud.
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https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ So......greengoose1....have we decided on a mobo? Or are we still in a fog?
Hey, I'm thinkin' that maybe it would be good to hear from all the readers out there who are Athlon users as to what mobo they use, why they like or dislike it, and if they have their eyes on a particular mobo upgrade and why. Might shed some more light here. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
[This message has been edited by bistro (edited 09-04-2001).]
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Well, guess i'll have to fess up and admit to being an AMD freak. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
My first machine a few years ago(won't admit to just "how" many tho' https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ )was the good ol' K6-2 series clamped on to a FIC PA2013 board. Since then i've gone thru to an Asus A7V/Duron600 setup that brought about several headaches,but all in all was a pretty good set-up. Then, on to an Asus A7V133(gee,does it sound like i prefer ol' Asus 'er sumthin'?,well,,i "do" https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ ),with an Athlon 850. With the latest 4in1 drivers,this too was a good machine.
Now, i'm running a 1.2Gig T-Bird on a "new" A7V133 board. And, to tell the truth,this thing runs so well i'm gettin' bored spitless!! I have the "old"? machine setting in the back bedroom and just upgraded it's CPU to the same as on my main machine(1.2Gig),and i have a box with something called Linux Mandrake8.1 i just bought. So,seein's as how the "hardware" is so boring,,maybe i can get my interest up playin' with the "penguin".. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
It's either that or grab the flyrod and just get out'ta the house for awhile..Come to think about it,,,that sounds like the best idea yet... https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
See Ya'all later~~~~
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Train leaving on track 5 for Anahiem,,Azusa,,and Cuukamunga.(in memory of "the man of a thousand voices")Mel Blanc
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Ridgerunr
Snow will be flying up in the lakes before long. Best get going https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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Ridgerunr: Your current A7V133 board has a VIA chipset. Have heard Athlon owners having trouble with VIA. Anything special you do to get such stability?
(I sound like Larry King...).
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bbbaak baak bbbaaaakk...chicken ...I mean goose https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ you just take your time. You waited this long. I wouldn't call it "gunshy"...self control...yeah, that's it.
Hang loose goose.
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Train, yup,,but always wait 'til the labborious day crowd has left. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ And, with winter comin' on,,those buggers bite like the dickens...
Well Larry,,err "bistro",,the only thing i do is to make sure i have the latest and greatest 4in1 drivers installed before i start goin' nuts with hardware installs. Usually do that right after i install the video drivers. Also, if you use the SB Live! card, i don't let it install all that buggy "live ware" junk. In fact, the only upgrade i'm contemplating now is changing to the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound card..Have heard some very good stuff about it...
Don't know how much difference it makes "technically" speaking, but i do use the Diamond Supra Max USB external modem for my dial-up. Makes more room on the PCI area if nothin' else..Things seem to co-operate better when i put the sound card on PCI slot 4 too..Haven't had any IRQ conflicts with this config...
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Train leaving on track 5 for Anahiem,,Azusa,,and Cuukamunga.(in memory of "the man of a thousand voices")Mel Blanc
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My 2 cents on the KT133/A/E/686B issues.
First, let me say that the problem (though it may manifest itself in a few different ways) really revolves around one thing, a problem related to a chipset registry setting (or two) and the interaction between the bios, the chipset and the drivers. Like many things over time the problem erroneously got blown out of proportion and expanded, to the point where some would say every problem they had was due to the via chipset, or that there were all these major problems with the via chipsets. Wrong!
Personally speaking I have had little problem with these issues. With or without an SBLive card in the mix, on my system(s) or others. And in all cases if a problem was experienced, it was resolved by using one of the solutions available. Most others seem to now be able to resolve any problems they might have by taking the appropriate steps. There was a time when via and the motherboard makers weren't in sync on resolving the isse, but that seems to have pretty much resolved itself. The biggest problem I hear about now is that people don't implement the suggested fixes correctly, or they implement them in such a way as they end up stepping on one another.
The faq over at viahardware is a good source for info and fixes for those experiencing the problem (or thinking they are).
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[This message has been edited by DrMDJ (edited 09-05-2001).]
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In terms of preferred mothboards for AMDs... I'm not one to say it's got to be this one or that. There are a number of boards that are good, and have no problem buying or recommending. Depends on the situation, day of the week. One brand board I often like to mention though is Epox. The main reason being that they make very good, high quality, stable boards, yet often get overlooked or downplayed by review sites. The main reason being that these sites almost always consider overclockability in their analysis. Epox has not focused on the overclocking community, so they have tended not to provide all the related swithches and bios settings of some of the other vendors (they've changed some in this area). But they'll generally measure up against anybody when looking for a (basically) stock solution.
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Good Morning All,
Bistro, Have not decided yet on a board. Still plowing through the reading. This is the first MOBO I have bought and it will be the best for my needs that it can be.
Ridgernr, Stability of your unit has been good then?
DrMDJ, Am considering all you are saying, which is in abundance. Thanks
QoH's, Thanks.
Train, How is the stability and dependability of Junior?
Now I have another question in terms of use. I want to be able to use two Hard Drives, Scanner, CDRom, and Burner in a direct mode (master?), if you will. I will be doing work with images (photos), fractals, maybe Moray also. I will have my business records. And of course increasing my knowledge of "computers". That narrows down the uses a bit more and can help determine which board.
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[This message has been edited by greengoose1 (edited 09-05-2001).]
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Then what you are looking for is a mobo that offers 2 IDE (CD's) and 2 ATA connections (for the hard drives). Each device can be on it's own channel (Master). Most new boards offer this, but some do not.
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Yep. After looking and reading that is what I want in a MOBO. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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Well, good. That narrows it down to 15 to 20 choices. We're well on our way.... https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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Is that to many? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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sorry I showed up a little late today with my 2cents worth.....I have used several amd setups for both myself and customers...here are some of the results
machine 1 microstar ms-6191 board using the amd irongate 761 chipset...not real happy with that board had some problems with the onboard sound that were a pain in the Emachines I mean rear....this was the first athlon slot A I built for myself....I sold it to a customer @ cost to get rid of it....next 2 systems were both built using the powercolor pvk7 slot A with the via chipset very stable after installing latest via 4in1 drivers. no problems with on board sound either very good performance under win2k.....next system that I am putting together next week I am using the ECS k7vza which is a via board also this is the first socket A athlon that I am using for personal use...so we will see over time how it performs....
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Mornin' all,(well,it's still in the a.m. way out west here anyway)..
GG1, I may have came on pretty strong for Asus in my last post. But, as DrMDJ says,there are several other good boards as well. Depending on what you want a system to do.
I've built systems for others who preferred the Epox and Abit boards with good results. There are just "so" many configurations involved.
And, as mentioned, it seems that many reviewers tend to blow things way out of proportion when it comes to specific hardware problems. At one time, SIS was a very nasty word to many. But, not so much now. Then they picked on VIA, as we all know. I tend to try to take a more basic look at the problem. And, if the company involved makes a good effort with driver upgrades and other improvements, i like to at least give them the benefit of the doubt and take what some reviewers say with a grain of salt.
I try to pick reviewers on their track record and honesty(which ain't easy these days https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ ),and when i find 2or3 i feel i can trust, i look to them when i have qualms about a particular piece of hardware.
I feel personally that many so-called "reviewers" are simply trying to justify their jobs by filling space to make up for inadequacies in knowledge.(or just laziness).
I feel this is one of the main reasons that the average Joe can become so blaimed confused when trying to get knowledge and understanding and learn the ins n' outs of computing. Why do you suppose the "for Dummies" series sold so many of their Tombs? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
And, i have to say, i fumbled in the dark and twilight for quite some time too. Then i came across a forum called VirtualDR. A place where knowledgeable people,some experts and some not,get together and try very hard to solve problems for the aforementioned "average Joe". Not for "fame and glory"and definitely not for the "big bucks", but just because they want to help...
Now, why do you suppose "this" average Joe considers VDr to be the best thing since the invention of Pizza??
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Train leaving on track 5 for Anahiem,,Azusa,,and Cuukamunga.(in memory of "the man of a thousand voices")Mel Blanc
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Thanks Sarkazztic, for your thoughts.
Ridgerunr, Exactly my thoughts on VirDr. Can you picture what would have happened if I had tried this by myself? (No comment by you please Bistro) https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ Did you ever see a CPU plugged into IDE slots? It coulda happenened. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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Hi Goose,
The last time I talked to Caeser, he was happy with his Epox/Athlon/DDR board. He was also very happy with the price he got at newegg for the stuff. Personally, I don't have any reccommendations of my own, so I'll hang in the wings until you pick one. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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Hell hath no fury like a computer scorned.
MAXXIMILIAN'S
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Now that you have Emachine up....... https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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Was looking at thisEpox mobo, but unfortunately it doesn't have the 4x connectors as previously mentioned (which is OK, but you'd have to slave). Otherwise, those ATA connectors look big enough for you to try inserting the CPU, greengoose.....(you know I couldn't resist...) https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
[This message has been edited by bistro (edited 09-05-2001).]
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Maxx have you given any thought to bumpin that Emachines up to 533 which is its limit
on pricewatch they are 34.00 plus shipping...push it to the limit....it is indestructable or so it seems.....too bad you cant overclock or at least I couldnt find a way to or I would have kept the one I had
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Jr has been very stable for me.
Vcore is 1.60V in bios and still running nice. Yes below what AMD says for the cpu.
Temps dropped from 37C to 35C for me.
Asus probe, sisoft and motherboard monitor say my Vcore is 1.65V and for some crazy reason they all say the same temperature as the BIOS.
jr.
Processor - Duron 800MHz [Thinking on the lines of a 1GB Tbird, maybe in a couple months, reason 3D rendering curiousity]
Motherboard - ASUS A7V
RAM - 128MB PC133
Videocard - Hercules Prophet II MX 32MB
Soundcard - On Board Sound Blaster
Modem - Do not need
LAN Card - And Router
CD-ROM Drive - 52X LiteON
CD-RW Drive* - Later using a USB hp 8230e
Floppy Disk Drive - installed
Casing - InWin S500
Power Supply - 300 watt
Monitor - 19" KDS
Keyboard - new
Mouse - new
Speakers - Never got. Do not need them. can not hear them. Weelll, maybe later. Someone is beginning to FUSS.
Printer* - Maybe later.
EXTRA EXPENCE: {Self defence}
19" monitor . I do like to eat you know.
And a few extra little items.
GG1
A7v has the two ide and two ATA100 for a total of 8 hookups.
So, for your 4 items each can be master on its own channel.
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Goose here is the boaord I got {EPOX EP-8K7A ) http://www.tomshardware.com/mainboar...html#epox_8k7a also the (EPOX EP8K7A+) is identical but with RAID.
My mobo cost 120 dollers the ep8k7a+ with RAID is 139 dollers at newegg. Also a AMD Athlon Thunderbird 1.4GHz 266MHz Bus Socket A PGA Processor-OEM Version processor is $108.00 at newegg. I have not read a bad review on either of these mobo and you could have the raid mobo and a 1.4 gig anthlon at 266 bus for 247 dollers. The AMD Athlon Thunderbird 950MHz Socket A PGA Processor - OEM version is 62 dollers if you were looking to spend less. Hope this imfo helps
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sarrkazztic,
After I'm done modding the case, I may do exactly that. The processors are so cheap now. Might even try putting the TNT2 card back in. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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Hell hath no fury like a computer scorned.
MAXXIMILIAN'S
