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Operation Delta 33
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What are we having to send the mail by train now? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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What AGAIN! Will not be the first time https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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Lordy Pete....kinda quiet on the GH home front tonight... Hope SRJ doesn't get too disappointed that there have been so few responses to the Mod announcement. Geez....
SRJ--if you're reading this, don't go away... https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ It's just real slow tonight...
Maxx: Did you get to work on that Emachine at all? Or did you fix the problem on your new system to get Myst to work?
Will be dashing in and out......working on CompTIA and Java tonight.
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Bistro,
Haven't had the time to dig into the emachine yet. Between getting up to speed with this new system and finally getting my garden planted, just haven't had the chance yet. Besides it is so depressing. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ I know you guys are joking, but for some reason I really liked that machine. It was my first computer not counting some gizmo called an "Apple-compatable Lazer 128" I had about twenty years ago.
As for Myst3, still waiting on the patch. At this rate, I'll probably have my 98 machine back before the patch comes out. It did run there. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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I want my Win98 Emachine back !!!
MAXXIMILIAN'S
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In a thread long ago a wise person said "Let's stay just behind the cutting edge........." In modern times this is true also. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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You know...something I've wondered about...Questions: How many folks are reading this thread? And what are they thinking? And why aren't they chiming in? And why does one drive on the parkway and park in a driveway? No...er...scratch the last one....
Just a note for our readers if I may augment greengoose's intro: Operation Delta isn't a "Club Members Only" (even though it may appear that way sometimes). We're here to exchange ideas/tips on the topic of building/modifying computers and everyone's welcome to join in. (The banter you read is just us being weird and goofy).
1st rule here: If you have a question: NO QUESTION IS "DUMB"! Ask!
2nd rule here: Obey the 1st rule....
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And so....the world sleeps peacefully and deep in the arms of Morpheus...knowing that bistro is still awake; ever vigilant; standing watch against any evil that may befall a computer user. Ready to offer his sage advice to the poor and needy far into the wee hours. And, in the later hours of the morning, they which have slept shall awaken to a new day and shall look in wonder on how many posters bistro replied to during the night who now are more confused than ever...
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Ok, ok - we're up here now. You can safely go to sleep now and later wake up fresh to a new day of trouble from all over the world.
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Karl,
Denmark
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"..and may The Force be with you too..."
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Yup - still shining....The Potomac still flowing - the right way? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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Karl,
Denmark
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"..and may The Force be with you too..."
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Can't tell right now---it's still too dark. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ (And that big white house over there on Pennsylvania Avenue is blocking my view...)
[This message has been edited by bistro (edited 05-21-2001).]
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Is that old mansion still there ? Should have been....well, never mind. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
To return to your question about questions (hmmm...double-gemoble): I think a lot of people skim through the postings/headlines on the overview pages, and OD may there seem like a sort of private party.
I think it is very important to clearly state your business in the headlines. Not an easy task, I know, with the limited space available - but that's your eyecatcher. In fact, that's why I suggested a kind of "hot topic" forum somewhere else - that people know what's inside.
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Karl,
Denmark
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"..and may The Force be with you too..."
[This message has been edited by kallikru (edited 05-21-2001).]
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Yes, I can see where they'd think that. Most of it was when Queen_of_Hearts was actually putting her computer together--a lot of fast and furious back-and-forth postings. That's why I made that comment above that Operation Delta is definitely NOT a "Club Members Only" thread, but some readers may have received that impression.
Hey, we WANT you guys to join in https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ with whatever questions/tips/advice on building/modding you'd like to offer. The more the merrier. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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Morning All, Kallikru, thanks for your thoughts. Hard to plan what's going to happen on this thread day to day. Tried to explain a little more in datail based upon yours and others suggestions in the opening. This thread continues to change. Had thought it had served it's purpose but then Maxximiian got to working with Myst and his Emachine. Dodge and a couple of others want to build or modify. At least they looked into it. I have the least amount of knowledge of the regulars in this thread but Bistro, Train, Mosaic, and a bunch of others can really get into the details of whatever here. Watch out when the Queen of Hearts shows up 'cause yopu never know what will come to the table. You bring quite a bit to the VirtualDr forums yourself and enjoy reading you. There is information posted here in this thread that is not easily found anywhere else. My opinion. There is no use for this thread unless the info contained in it helps someone. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
What's the matter Bistro, couldn't sleep? What are you working on now that's more important than sleep? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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Every once in a blue moon, each of us here has to stay up (at work) for 24 hours on a weekend--took my turn this time so I wouldn't have to on Memorial Day weekend coming up. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ Shouldn't have to do this for at least another 3 to 4 months https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
[This message has been edited by bistro (edited 05-21-2001).]
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Hmm - and I thought I had found a match with respect to staying up late...voluntarily.
I fully agree that a thread with no information is useless, but OD is certainly not to be considered one of those. But I still think some "advertising" is needed to pull the "customers" in from the street. I just modified my signature a bit - somewhat crude, but maybe....
I believe there are a lot of people out there who would like to fumble around the inside of their PCs, but they just don't trust themselves to do it and are afraid they might do some damage. Of course they have a good reson for that since that's delicate stuff hiding in there. Respect but not reverence...
Once they realise other ordinary people can do it, I think they'll eventually come around - they just need some good, sound, detailed advice (including warnings) and encouragement, it worked for me.
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Karl,
Denmark
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"..and may The Force be with you too..."
>> Be sure to check out the Operation Delta ## threads (General Hardware) on building and upgrading your system <<
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Bistro, Been there - done it. Here's some easy reading for you and others on general computer maintenence and how tos. A good review. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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GG1,
I haven't participated in this thread, but have popped in to see what was happening from time to time. Here's my take from what I've seen, for what is worth. Let me say up front that I'm not intending to knock these threads. But I do see some definite problems.
Initially (when QOH was building) the bulk of the info was indeed related to what you intended the thread(s) to be about. But once that project was over things changed. From time to time there has been the odd question posted that seemed relevant (to hardware, building, etc). But for some time now OD has really read more like a chat room than anything else. If one were to search through everything looking for info to build/mod/etc the amount of useful information compared to chat is quite small. The bulk of the topical stuff is in the early postings. Of late… What has happened is that while waiting for someone to come in to the thread with a question/issue you guys chat. And that's fine, except business has been pretty lean in the thread, so there's been a ton off chatting. The result: an awful lot of off-topic stuff has accumulated that a user has to weed through looking for some pertinent info. Hell, I myself have weeded through many a post looking to see if something interesting might have happened, only to find out that someone's truck is on the fritz (just an example https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ ). And I know this is billed as an open thread (project), not exclusive. I believe it is. But if a newcomer reads through the threads (especially he later ones) it is easy quite quickly to see that a comradery amongst a few has built up. And based on the initial days of the thread, and working with QOH, its natural that it would have. But in looking through the postings over time I can see where someone coming in would get the impression that it is an exclusive club, or a hang out for some friends. Again, it's the chat, the references to all the back and forth emailing, the conversations on things of a more personal nature. So, my first suggestion would be take the chat to another thread, and keep OD as close to business as usual. Instead of the regulars coming in to see what's going on (hardware wise), finding nothing, and putting up a personal type post, don't. I just believe for OD to have use it has to stick to topic (of course there's always going to be some off-topic stuff).
Another problem I see with OD is that it seems quite difficult to have one thread (or set of threads) on the topic you intend. If one person has a project (like QOH did initially) then it works. But if you get several people at one time it could quickly become unmanageable. If I, as an individual, wanted to do something or was having a problem I would tend to want to not to work within a thread where 5 others were being dealt with at the same time. What's the incentive for me to not just start my own thread? Now, if the thread got devoted to my problem for a while (as it did with QOH0 then that would be one thing. But… I'm not sure how this problem can be dealt with. It would be against (what seems to be) the intent of OD to say "OK, come here with your problems and we'll tackle them, but only one at a time". Like I said, I don't have a solution, but I do see it as a problem. If people have a problem it just seems like they will get the most concise and personal attention from starting their own posts.
Another problem with the OD threads and concept may be in the way it is billed (or seems to be). It is billed (from what I see) as the place to go for general building/moding/etc. Why? Why more so than the hardware forum in general? Is there some expertise in OD that doesn't exist outside? No. Is there info here that isn't elsewhere? No (or little). And (I may be wrong, but) a lot of information contained in the posts seems largely specific to one project (QOH's), not really that broad based in terms of the hardware and things it covers. Now, granted, that may be because of the nature of the questions/issues/projects that have (or haven't ) come in to the thread(s), but… There is useful info to be found, but it can be scattered over quite a few threads, difficult to find. Even after you went to the effort of coming up with the list of past thread links. Also, to a certain extent it seems like there's a fair amount of repetition (hardware, links). I may be wrong on this though. One thing for sure though, if OD is to be truly useful it can't be a place where the same (or very similar) solution gets offered to everyone. To be "general", to attract and be useful to the general person it has to be capable and willing to deal with a broad range and the info available has to be wide ranging.. I'm not saying it can't or won't. I'm just not sure it has been demonstated (or more so then the forums in general).
Beleive me when I say it was not my intention here to just beat on OD. Or that I don't appreciate its intent or potential value. I really am just trying to be helpful. I just don't know how viable it is to accomplish what you want in a thread (or series). But if it is then you've got to at least stick to topic, weed out the other stuff. As for attracting people in, I'm not sure how to do that. I think its gonna be tough to get people to use a thread used by others when they can create their own. Like I said earlier, why not just post a thread of their own in the hardware (or other) forum? OD people will see and address them there, as will others.
OD was started and expanded with good intention. I don't know, but maybe it is trying to be something it (or any single thread) can't. Maybe only a "forum" can be that. Just my 2 cents…
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DrMDJ, Thanks very much for your input and some very valid points. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
One other thing that has happened is this hardware forum now has more life to it and has grown. It used to be in the celler.
There are many active people here who are trying to make VirDr better and I'm glad you are interested enough to join in the effort.
Thanks again.
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[This message has been edited by greengoose1 (edited 05-21-2001).]
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GG1,
As I said, just trying to help (honest). A lot of work and good intent has been put in to OD. I just think there's some difficult issues to overcome (even if the non-topic stuff got weeded out). Don't give up yet though (I'm sure you won't).
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DrMDJ. I edited my reply to you. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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Bistro, do you ever sleep???????>LOL
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Please remember to let us know if it worked or not...JJ
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Dodge
Duty calls
So, you did not luck out. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
Greengoose
Liked the link.Should have been in oneGuess better late than never https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
DrMDJ
Points taken
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[This message has been edited by Train (edited 05-21-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Train (edited 05-26-2001).]
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DrMDJ: You made some solid, valid points there....OK, that said--ON TO THE CHAT!!!
(Just kidding) https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
The intent has been good, but you're right that it needs revamping or something. I'm at a loss at the moment as to how (still tired from last night... https://discussions.virtualdr.com/). It would be difficult for us to guide 2 or 3 people at once in building. (Actually, I had thought of that possibility from time time and it scared the be-jeebers out of me.... https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ Not impossible, but would be daunting). I think it boiled down to us waiting for folks to join in with questions, etc. (resulting in "chat"), but there've been little to no "takers" for the reasons you gave. One possibility, however remote, would propose a new forum to the admins. However, VDr is primarily a software forum, so I don't believe that idea would go over.
This one I think we're going to have to mull over for a little while. Thanks for your honesty and believe me, it is well taken.
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Bisto and Train - Mail Call. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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read yours https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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Bistro, How much room is needed to store this would you say?
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No problem; I'll just file that sucker into that 60 terabyte mainframe I built in the basement out of PVC pipe...
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Oops. Wrong one. Will E mail you tonight with right one. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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Has nothing to do with building/modding, but a friend just forwarded this to me. Update your AV! Run for the hills! https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
New viruses coming out:
The "I Love You, But I'm Shy" virus never actually invades your computer, but collects data about it worshipfully from afar.
The "Love The One You're With" virus hangs around your computer, but the whole thing is just temporary until it can find the computer that it really wants to invade.
The "Happily Married" virus invades only one computer and stays with it for life.
The "Unhappily Married" virus spends a long time negotiating with a computer, finally invades it, and then strays to other computers from time to time.
The "I Want A Divorce" virus sends repeated, hard-to-read messages that your computer isn't working and takes half of your computer's best data in an ugly network session.
The "Stalker" virus spends unnatural amounts of time monitoring your computer, collecting data your computer has thrown away and tries to record all of its functions. And it writes rude messages to any other computer with which yours connects on any regular basis.
The "Forever Single" virus causes your computer to focus solely on other computers with which it is totally incompatible or prove generally unavailable.
The "Deadbeat" virus invades your computer, spawns an entirely new database, then refuses to help update it as it grows.
Just for fun... https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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bistro,
Now you got me interested - could you send me the blueprints for that mainframe? Don't tell me - does it run on car batteries?
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Karl,
Denmark
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"..and may The Force be with you too..."
>> Be sure to check out the Operation Delta ## threads (General Hardware) on building and upgrading your system <<
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From this weeks Langa List https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
Also know why california is running out of electricity.NOW https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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[This message has been edited by Train (edited 05-22-2001).]
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Bistro and Train - E Mail. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
Kallikru and DrMDJ - Need to know if you've come up with any other thought on improving what we have. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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Train,
Got your email. Reply sent. Forgot to mention that all those items on that circuit are also plugged into the same surge protector (cheap one) that did not trip during the episode. Thanks.
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I want my Win98 Emachine back !!!
MAXXIMILIAN'S
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GG1,
I'm still thinkin'. But one thing dawned on me that I forgot to mention the other day: the name of the thread(s). Operation Delta really doesn't capture the idea, isn't a title that would draw people in. Granted, some people may see it and out of curiosity look at it/them. But if the title said/was something else I think it would get more attention.
I still can't come up with ideas as to how to get around what I believe are some of the fundemental problems faced.
Not to rehash things, but...
I think the "mission statement" may need to be narrowed. Having OD (or Son of OD) be dedicated to "building, modifying, optimizing, and overclocking" is very broad, too broad. Many places have forums devoted to each of these. While I can see the overlap in having a Hardware forum and maybe, say, a System Building" forum here, my leaning is that a forum is really more appropriate than a series of threads. I also don't see why it should be an issue in regards to Hardware Central, but... In any case, whether OD remains thread-based or evolves to a forum I do think it's scope might need narrowing and it's name/title changed. It might be worthwile to have people here state their own views as to the appropriate scope/mission.
The other problem is this one of being able (should it happen) to handle multiple projects at once. Bistro seemed to agree with me on this one. It could get pretty disjointed with discussions (posts) going on about 2,3,4 systems at once. For the helpers, for helpees, and even for someone looking through a thread trying to follow the/a process. But then again, maybe the only way to know if this is a real problem is to have it happen and see how it goes.
There's another aspect of this that I think is worth raising, one that troubles me a bit. I see no problem in helping people build, mod, etc. However, I don't necessarily think OD should "encourage" these activities. Why? Because while it may be economical, fun, interesting, and even cool, it is not appropriate for everyone (many people), not the prudent choice. With this kind of help or not. Sometimes the process of building/modding/etc gets trivialized too much. Sometimes it isn't just a matter of plugging a few things together. People can get in way over their heads (there's plenty of examples around that show it). The ultimate goal is for people to have systems they can use, not support or struggle with. And for many that still means buying, not buliding. Bottomline: it would be a bad idea if OD was to get caught up in itself such that it was getting people in to positions they shouldn't be in, or offering a service (if you will) that it couldn't deliver on.
Like I said, I'm still mulling this over. But once again I seem to offer more problems than solutions. It would be nice if something could evolve from this all. But either the answer as to what and how to make it happen is so simple we are missing it, or it is something so complex that...
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[This message has been edited by DrMDJ (edited 05-23-2001).]
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Hi DrMDJ, Thanks for the additioonal input. Bistro hasn't weighed in yet, but Train called last evening and we discuused the possibility of bringing Steve and Housen in on this since we hadn't made much headway. (There in on it now from this post. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ A little history. We started this on the 98 forum and Housen as I recall thought it would be better in hardware which as it turned out paid off in spades. This forum only had about 274 topics when we started and you can see then how hardware has grown. Not only do we want to see what we have been doing continue if it is of use to the other members, but we do not wish to see Hardware go downhill after the effort has gone into building it up. We are at a plateau so to speak. In addition we are part of a business that without there wouldn't be a VirtualDr. There are probably other factors that need to be considered.
My personal opinion is this. I bought a computer and I had no expertise at all. As A result the PC was giving alot of problems. I found VirtualDr and some wonderful members who helped me and some of them spent a considerable amount of time with me and as a result, this is one of the better running Compaqs in TX and the surrounding counties (oops). https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ I count myself lucky to have a few of the members mentoring me still to help bring me up to speed.
I belong to maybe four other forums besides VirtualDr. This is the best of the best even with the various problems that have cropped up once in awhile. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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Whaddya' mean I haven't "weighed in yet"? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
Wrote a long email to ya'! Are we still having probs between our ISPs? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
Anyhoo, The long and short of it is: The points DrMDJ brought up are very valid. Not really sure if we can maintain the OD thread
at this point. The original purpose as I understand it was to assist one (or two https://discussions.virtualdr.com/) people with building a system. I believe we accomplished that and it was a lot of fun. Then we decided to try to attract others who may be interested in building and/or modding. No takers. Either no one is interested, or it's as DrMDJ alluded to: while we were "waiting" we just bantered on (of which I'm the most guilty)--folks reading got the impression that OD was somewhat an exclusive party; (although that thought was the farthest from our minds). Even in your thread intros, greengoose, you made it clear that it was anyone's "party".
But still no real "takers".
DrMDJ's correct in that building a system is not for everybody; and that it isn't quite as simple as just Plug and Play. It can be quite daunting; especially for someone with little to no experience with computer parts. With some posters in the past who've expressed an interest, I've tried to "feel them out" first. To some I've said: Go for it! Others: consider a retail system. Building is definitely not for everybody. A lot depends on the person's desire, need and initiative.
I think we've built up enough building/modding links between us so that if someone comes along who expresses an interest, we can help them. I would also suggest going through the OD threads and do a little weeding; keep Q_O_H's actual building procedure (including the selection/buying of parts); and toss the "fluff". Will make a nice archive for future referrals.
We've had a whale of a time on the OD threads. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ But I honestly can't come up with any viable idea to "revamp" them. Perhaps it's time to gracefully retire.
Just my rambling thoughts..... https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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GG1,
The OD idea belongs in the hardware forum for sure. Then again, a lot of posts go to the wrong forum. But people post where they think the action is. The Win98 forum still gets the most attention, so... But hardware is picking up. Hardware is a growing area as more and more people are tinkering and, maybe more so, trying to save a few bucks by doing things themselves.
I'm not sure I follow some of what you're saying. You seem like you're being a little vague, but perhaps you have to be. It seems like there's some behind the scenes stuff going on. And it sounds like there are some goals, issues, politics, sensitivities, etc that we all don't know about. I hope it can work out (what ever "it" is).
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