Of course sometimes wen you try to help out with "managing" the boards you get accused of backseat moderation http://discussions.virtualdr.com/sho...light=backseat
and other times posting just gets you into plain trouble http://discussions.virtualdr.com/sho...hreadid=178183 so you need to remind people of the AUP until a real mod steps in and shuts them down.
You must remeber Kat a few of those will be peeps who have already contributed and are catching up on the new responses.Quote:
Originally posted by KatMac
[B]I have two Mozilla browers open which stay in memory. At 4:55 a.m. Central Time this thread had 6199 views. At 7:02 a.m., 6249.
Yea, just goes to show ya no matter what you do someones always gonna get pissed off about something. Just an example of what I have to deal with on a daily basis. :D BJQuote:
Originally posted by Nix
Of course sometimes wen you try to help out with "managing" the boards you get accused of backseat moderation http://discussions.virtualdr.com/sho...light=backseat
and other times posting just gets you into plain trouble http://discussions.virtualdr.com/sho...hreadid=178183 so you need to remind people of the AUP until a real mod steps in and shuts them down.
Absolutely KatMac. Not just "to a degree", to quite a large degree. And personally I've seen it work best for all concerned here when that is happening.Quote:
So we can 'self-monitor' to a degree. Guess what I'm trying to say here is since it's a community, certain aspects can (and should) be watched by the community itself.
JPNYC,
I think that the reason that my UG has had such great results from sending out the broadcast email with a Subject of
UG Misses You
is the fact that it included this cute animated graphic. Any graphic used needs to bring a smile to the VDR member's face and create a positive response, then it is very easy for the email recipient to transfer those feelings and take whatever action that the email is suggesting.
If a VDR poster has not posted in the past two years to two months ago (or whatever timeframe that Jupiter wants to use), then they would be on email recipient list. Anything older than 2 years ago would probably result in an overwhelming number of bad email address.
One of the reasons that VDR may have fallen off of some posters radar screen is if the email address that they used when they registered is no longer active. Jupiter will discover what percent of the non-posters may be for this reason.
IMO, this email should not be sent out until after VDR has made changes to its homepage. VDR's Google's rank will be helped by the upgrade. Also, in that vein, putting more content and links to content will probably have an even bigger impact.
JPNYC, I would like to encourage you to do the Google search on "PC User Group" because I think this clearly shows the importance of having lots of content on the home page. Most of these top ranked homepages are also fairly well designed.
I'm glad that you liked my idea.
Cheers,
Linda
:D :rolleyes: :D
JPNYC,
Always before on the VDR.com homepage, the featured threads would show the number of posts and the number of views. However, in the last couple of days, the number of views is no longer being displayed.
Do you happen to know why this is the current state?
Cheers,
Linda
Linda, is this what you refer to as the HOME Page?
Or number 2 this one It is showing the number of replies and when updated for me.
Nix, you have this terrific talent of finding old posts. How do you do it? :D This post made me think of those US sitcoms when they think back about the past and share their experiences.Quote:
Originally posted by Nix
Of course sometimes wen you try to help out with "managing" the boards you get accused of backseat moderation http://discussions.virtualdr.com/sho...light=backseat
and other times posting just gets you into plain trouble http://discussions.virtualdr.com/sho...hreadid=178183 so you need to remind people of the AUP until a real mod steps in and shuts them down.
Just had to mention that :)
Hi Train,
You wrote:
"Or number 2 this one It is showing the number of replies and when updated for me."
It is number 2. In the past, this page in addition to showing the number of replies, has also shown the number of views.
That is assuming that this is not a figment of my imagination.
I no longer have the time to check a number of different conferences as I did previously, so I check the VDR homepage to see the newest threads and the most active threads to see what is of interest to me.
Obviously, this behavior does not apply, if I have a problem that I am trying to solve.
Cheers,
Linda
I can not say I ever saw the number of views there. Guess I never paid any attention to that if it was there.
I don't recall ever seeing the number of views there either.
On the matter of posts being unanswered, the new software will allow us to do things with zero reply posts that are currently impossible. I understand we mods will get a bump thread option, and there may be some other things that can be done as well.
Linda,
A question, just to make sure I'm clear on some of your suggestions earlier in this thread...
You seemed to be suggesting that vdr put effort in to attracting in members of the IT professional community. Perhaps it's more appropriate to say the more hardcore professionals. If so, then are you suggesting that vdr try to attract these people and marry them (so to speak) with the membership makeup that vdr has historically had, or are you suggesting a focus/priority be given to attracting in and catering to these type clients? I think it is the former that you are suggestion, but just want to be sure.
Sorry Linda, but I don't know. Anything that isn't an actual forum page is outside my control.
And as a seperate thought....
Linda has thrown out a few ideas for potentially new forums. Are there any other forums that people think might be worth considering to add, forums that might cover topics or provide a more appropriate place for certain postings compared to the ones that exist today?
DrMDJ,
You are right.
"If so, then are you suggesting that vdr try to attract these people and marry them (so to speak) with the membership makeup that vdr has historically had, ..."
That is what I am suggesting. Adding to the membership mix and the diversity of membership, so that there is more reason to stay at one tech support website.
Cheers,
Linda
Quote:
Originally posted by DrMDJ
And as a seperate thought....
Linda has thrown out a few ideas for potentially new forums. Are there any other forums that people think might be worth considering to add, forums that might cover topics or provide a more appropriate place for certain postings compared to the ones that exist today?
Doc
How about a forum Titled something like..."New PC users"....and subdivide it by OS's....and put stickies in each OS containing all the info they need to know about protection before they go on line, etc....or something of that nature......and right up front on the Home page....or Discussion page......at any rate the best positioning from a marketing standpoint??
poppy
There is all the information needed to secure a PC in our information only SpywareDr forum, Poppy. There a range of information to suit everybody from the absolute newbie to IT pros with computer science degrees. Unfortunately, judging by the views, not many people are visiting that forum.
I was going to say "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink".
By nature, people who come here looking for help probably aren't going to find and read all the stickies as they are already in a jam.
IMHO ...it Needs to be marketed better......
The stickies or VDr.Quote:
Originally posted by poppy4
IMHO ...it Needs to be marketed better......
BOTH!!....:D
A few suggestions...
One, I'm a bit bewildered by the comment that Moderators aren't required to post. This makes me (and possibly others) wonder just what their business is here. Surely, a few Moderators are necessary to be sure there are no members causing trouble but is that all they are primarily for? This seems illogical to me.
Second, I see there are just 2 Moderators for the HJT section. If they are not required to post/reply, then are they there simply to make sure that actual logs are posted by people and not off-topic posts? Also, does this mean you have no real HJT team? This is absolutely vital in this day and age. Look at how many HJT logs are posted daily and weekly, here and anywhere. I went back 30 days and it appears that there are maybe 3 people who are doing all the work. We understand that Mods have daytime jobs, lives, and other things to do. Perhaps there should be new Mods 'hired' so that more work is getting done. I don't even see a warning on the forepage that states people are posting their logs in an area that is not viewed by experts only - that anyone can reply or make suggestions. This is dangerous, obviously.
Third, I don't know about trying to target professionals or any other 'group' of people. If this site is basically for computer help and related assistance, why target anyone? I know of a few people who are smarter and more knowledgeable about computers than a few who work in the industry. Additionally, I've seen computer students who can barely turn a computer on. What makes a person an 'expert' can vary by opinion. What VDR needs is more experts, more exposure, more enthusiasm, more explanations, and more guidance.
I really feel that if people can't donate much time here for the sake of the site, then they have very little to offer and this leaves little for expansion. A generous few should be 'elected' to each category/sub category of topic that is available here, ie, WinXP, Win95, Business Applications, Internet & Browsers, etc...
If they have full lives, they shouldn't be elected for the positions. For those of us who can dedicate at least a few days each week other than just lurking and searching for trouble makers, we should step forward and raise our hands, so to speak. I don't expect or want any toes to get stepped on. But for VDR to grow and prosper and expand, these changes and additions should be considered.
All forums depend on all users to answer each other's questions here, not just the staff. That's pretty much the case with all such forums. Members help each other. The mods are members also, and they do post, but that's not their responsibility alone.
So we need some Es.Quote:
Originally posted by Diana67
What VDR needs is more experts, more exposure, more enthusiasm, more explanations
That will sure make veryone happy :p ;)
I wonder if we have too many forums, I don't understand why we need storage and hardware they could easily be combined. Maybe people get confused where to post, lets face it an average person with computer problems would not know if it was his HDD or his Motherboard giving him grief.
The main reason that I suggest this is because I only noticed this thread yesterday, and I visit every day.
Storage came about because of the high rate of post in reference to hdd and cdrw problems that where being buried with out being answered.
One of the reasons I have it set to show 40 posts as most folks fail to note that there are more than one page.
Too many and or the titles could be very confusing to a newbie seeking help. Again, relates to the issue of forcing someone to look too hard for something and they're going to click on out of here. Under each forum at discussion.virtualdr.com there's a nice tidy summary under the title that's a good lead in to what the forum is about. But at virtualdr.com, the Home Page, no such explanation exists. IMHO, if the HomePage layout was changed to include a snapshot of the discussion topics offered, ala discussion.virtualdr.com, it would draw more in. We need to give new, less tech savvy members the impression that we are willing to and will make the effort to take them by the hand and lead them where they need to go. As it stands now on the home page, there are too many assumed "givens" that could leave someone lost. If they're confused on the front porch, they're not gonna step through the door and come in.Quote:
Originally posted by Philgo
I wonder if we have too many forums..
This is the case with all forums on this board (and typically others like it). Anyone can respond to a post. And whether it's a mod or a member there is no default assurance of expertise or a correct answer (overwhelmingly no one "tries" to give wrong answers/advice). Does this potentially create a danger as you say? Yes. But when things are working properly there are enough checks and balances in the system brought about numerous people reading posts, inputting, correcting or at least questioning suspect or erroneous information in a thread. And this system of checks and balances works pretty well. But people do need to realize that by default a person responding to a post (regardless of whether they are a mod or member, have 10000 posts, etc) cannot just blindly be assumed to be an expert or have the correct answers.Quote:
I don't even see a warning on the forepage that states people are posting their logs in an area that is not viewed by experts only - that anyone can reply or make suggestions. This is dangerous, obviously.
It's pretty typical in my experience that the core obligations/requirements (heck, even credentials) of a moderator at sites like this are not necessarily all that extensive or demanding. For the most part these people are expected to provide a basic stewardship function, to seek to maintain an order and flow to things, to make sure rules are abided by, and so forth. And since these are non-paid positions it just is a reality that it can indeed be difficult to expect or get more than this.Quote:
One, I'm a bit bewildered by the comment that Moderators aren't required to post. This makes me (and possibly others) wonder just what their business is here. Surely, a few Moderators are necessary to be sure there are no members causing trouble but is that all they are primarily for?
Not thoughts or goals without merit, but by no means necessarily this simple.Quote:
I really feel that if people can't donate much time here for the sake of the site, then they have very little to offer and this leaves little for expansion. A generous few should be 'elected' to each category/sub category of topic that is available here, ie, WinXP, Win95, Business Applications, Internet & Browsers, etc...
If they have full lives, they shouldn't be elected for the positions. For those of us who can dedicate at least a few days each week other than just lurking and searching for trouble makers, we should step forward and raise our hands, so to speak. I don't expect or want any toes to get stepped on. But for VDR to grow and prosper and expand, these changes and additions should be considered
Linda,Quote:
That is what I am suggesting. Adding to the membership mix and the diversity of membership, so that there is more reason to stay at one tech support website
My one potential concern on this is that it is often the case that when you try to mix too diversified a population (in terms of their associated interests, skills, etc) or if the range (so to speak) between the two ends of the member spectrum is too great that it can have an overall detrimental effect. When/if the spread gets too great the groups as a whole do not (if you will) play well together. You can get things like barriers and isolation, synergy can be lost instead of gained (or maintained), the "tech snobbishness" that someone mentioned earlier in this thread, etc. In my time here VDR's member make-up, slant, and such has not really included the higher end or harder core tech people, interests and the like. Realistically, not by a long shot. And this range of things the site has been characterized by (when running on all cylinders) seems to have worked well. So I just have some concerns about potentialy upsetting the balance for the worse. Ya follow what I'm getting at?
Poppy4, Again, something that's not (or with some variation) by default without potential merit. Some other's have raised a couple issues. One more I'll throw out though is the age old one of "who's gonna do this stuff". Is it something the mods would be looked to to provide (and realistically be expected to provide)? Will members kick in?Quote:
How about a forum Titled something like..."New PC users"....and subdivide it by OS's....and put stickies in each OS containing all the info they need to know about protection before they go on line, etc....or something of that nature......and right up front on the Home page....or Discussion page......
These types of things would have to be done by JPNYC or Joe. BJ
DrMDJ quote:
_________________
Will members kick in?
_________________
Doc, if the members don't, then the board is doomed, as the mods IMO, couldn't handle the volume ......but the track record here is such that I believe they would.
I understand that the board would also be doomed if the overwhelmingly majority of active members were non-tech......the suggestion about 'new users' was meant to recruit new members, to help perpetuate the board.
.....but for people like myself to learn enough to be able to return that help to others, as well as posters getting their problems correctly fixed, it is vital for techs to way outweigh non-techs on VDR......
poppy
On the subject of how extensive a role the mods should play:
I'm a member at two other boards that are not related to computing in any way shape or form. These are thriving, active boards that have a huge following. Site #1 and #2 are vastly different from each other with regard to topic matter.
At site #1, there is not even a designated "mod". To my knowledge, the only "power that be" there is the owner of the site. (Keep in mind, at site #1 no "right" or "wrong" answer applies, so there is no risk of a "wrong" answer sending a member into a bad place.) The discussions are almost 100% self-moderated by members, move along at a clip, brisk pace, and the naysayer who wants to flame or make trouble is quickly squelched by other members. If that doesn't stop the problem behavior, the owner is notified and takes action from his end.
At site #2 (also non-PC related), a wrong suggestion or solution could send someone to a bad place. The structure and authority hierarchy is very similar to VDr. The membership is strong, thriving, and the boards are exceptionally well "self-moderated" by the members themselves. Mods can and do participate, but by and large, unless a blatant transgression has been committed, mods seldom have the need to step in and get someone back in line or correct poor advice. Vast majority of the time, the members are quick to swoop in on it.
My point: based on my experience in general with discussion boards of varying topic matter, it's not the mods that "make" a board (althouth bad mod behavior/attitude can "break" a board). Also, sites 1 and 2 above are brimming with members passionate about the particular subject matter. It would seem therefore, that it's human nature to be protective over that which we are passionate about. (And if it's a subject matter that hits close to home for a visitor, that passion can be quite contageous.)
on the subject of extensive diversity within a discussion site
Well said and a valid point. I was just thinking about those sites I mentioned above in comparison to VDr. They illustrate your point well, Doc. Site #1 above is an example of how too much diversity can be detrimental to the unit as a whole. In fact there really is no "unity" for or loyalty to the site as a whole. Although a good site, over time it has burgeoned, then branched out and continually broken down it's discussions to the point that topics have become quite diverse. (The discussions branch out like a family tree.) Diversity and subtopics have become so prevelant that differing discussion areas have developed their own strong followings. The wide and varied discussion topics have evolved to the point they are almost self-contained and separate entities. There's so much diversity, one could not possibly track the entire board. This has resulted in a shift of unity, comraderie and loyalty away from the site as a whole and more toward a handful of discussions within the site that a member has particular interest in. Each niche of the site has it's own following. You don't see the same faces throughout the site, they tend to stay in their respective 'nooks' of interest. At site #2, it's much like VDr. in that all discussion topics have immediate relevance to the core subject. Members do have their preferred topic matter, but it's not excessively broken down to the point it's too diversified. As a result, members easily slip in and out of various discussions because discussions remain strongly connected to the main theme of the site. So members become familiar, because you will see their presence throughout the site.Quote:
by DrMDJ:
My one potential concern on this is that it is often the case that when you try to mix too diversified a population (in terms of their associated interests, skills, etc) or if the range (so to speak) between the two ends of the member spectrum is too great that it can have an overall detrimental effect. So I just have some concerns about potentialy upsetting the balance for the worse. Ya follow what I'm getting at?
Absolutely (on both counts).Quote:
based on my experience in general with discussion boards of varying topic matter, it's not the mods that "make" a board (althouth bad mod behavior/attitude can "break" a board).
And that's the way it should be at a healthy site. :) Good example.Quote:
Originally posted by KatMac
The membership is strong, thriving, and the boards are exceptionally well "self-moderated" by the members themselves. Mods can and do participate, but by and large, unless a blatant transgression has been committed, mods seldom have the need to step in and get someone back in line or correct poor advice. Vast majority of the time, the members are quick to swoop in on it.
Mods & Senior Members ARE Looked upon to know a bit more (even lots more) than a normal member or Newbie....Therefore the Answer that is Given by the Mods n Seniors is taken as more or less 100% True n Good...Now to my view of things, the Majority of you contributeing to this Thread are the ones that's Looked upon to give most of the Answers....(always more than 1 answer to a question) I know what I know through you lot within this Thread and the answers I give to someone could be missconstrued to be not quite correct because of the way i put it over, even if it is correct..(hope ya followed that)!!LOL. I can give Good True Answers to 99% of Photography questions, but most of the time they been answered before I seen em...I do give Help if n when i know the answer I'm giveing is Correct...
Have too many IT Professionals in here n Newbies will go elsewhere because what Professionals sometimes say can be OverWhelming, Confuseing & Boreing....(to say the least)
Things, they are a Changeing....Not just here, but EveryWhere..
I would say that by the end of 2005 most Sites will either Dissapier or just trickle along...Why, you ask!?
This==ISPs (here in UK at least) are changeing the way we SURF the NET...It's called USAGE...Now I never knew till yesterday that Normall surffing is part n parcel of the USAGE....Surffing, Email etc.,
We are being Curtailed to either 3Gbt, 15Gbt or 30Gbt a month..Now 30Gbt sounds Brilliant to 90% of peeps..(I thought it was) till I read about the USAGE..So if you be a Manager of more than one site or a Mod in upteen sites then by Golly that 30Gbt will be gone in a Week...I can use it in a Fortnight..Less if i doing my Photos into my Sites and Elsewhere...
Just Something Else for you to Think about!!!!!!
I like VDR the way it is, but would like to see some changes,what that'll be will be left upto whoever does em...Do it Wrong n VDR will go quicker than before end 2005....
On the number of forums, we actually have quite a few less than the sites that are really heavily visited and growing well. Of the sites that I have been monitoring over the last few months the smallest number (on a site which is very nearly dead, I might add) has 14 forums, and the largest number is 47 forums. We have 22 (excluding the read-only SpywareDr forum). I'm unable to discern any correlation between the number of forums on a site and activity or growth.
Whether our forums are as well named and described as they might be, is something that we should look into though, I think. I personally would also like to see the site expanding into areas that we haven't previously covered before as well.
I think that bringing IT professionals to this site is a big mistake (sorry Linda). As has been already said, it will simply drive the newbies away. The number of IT professionals who use help sites is much lower than newbies, so we would see a drastic decrease in membership.
With more forums (47, SuperSparks?? You gotta be kiddin'...) you risk the danger that KatMac mentioned....the site becoming compartmentalized into cliques, eventually not communicating with each other or not crossing over into "territories".
Pretty soon site members start wearing distinctive hairstyles and clothings to mark out which forums they "belong" to, start carrying weapons, robbing convenience stores....it can get pretty dirty.
:rolleyes:
Are you saying you dont like my hair :rolleyes:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...6/f4d44e60.jpg
:D :D :D