Weekly Subject-06C- Mobos and Cpus

Another item to consider, that I have just found in a magazine (PC Pro, Issue 82, James Morris), is that your OS may not be compatible with your MOBO. The example given was WIN2K and a 1 year old MOBO. “The important issue is ACPI (Advanced Configuration and Power Interface).” This is a lot more than an upgrade to APM (Advanced Power Management). “ACPI also controls system IRQ resources. Plug and Play is now part of ACPI. As ACPI controls turning peripherals on and off to save power, it makes sense that it must also control resource allocation for those peripherals.” “...an ACPI-incompatible system Windows 2000 will install in Standard PC mode, which controls resources using traditional Plug and Play.” “ACPI ... routes all PCI and AGP devices to one IRQ.” “Interrupt calls are intercepted by the OS and conflicts are thereby supposedly avoided. In standard PC mode, or with Windows 9x, the BIOS routing table or a hardware specific IRQ routing driver is used”.

Another item, from the same magazine, announced that AMD SmartMP technology allowed a second processor to effectively double a systems performance “which simply isn’t the case with current Intel solutions.” It goes with out saying that your OS has to support dual processors.

Regards,

Glyn

Usually you'll get a beep code on bootup when errors crop up with the BIOS. First thing to do is determine the beep code. Good source HERE. Will save a lot of time and narrow down the problem.

A lot of BIOS "errors" appear to be with RAM--usually either RAM gone bad or the wrong RAM stick installed. Check the RAM to make sure it's still well seated. Check the new RAM stick; does it match the other RAM in there? No new RAM but problem there: Take out one stick at a time and reboot to find the 'bad' one.

Check the processor settings. Are they correct for the installed processor? Check the CPU fan. Durons and Athlons in particular heat up very rapidly--if they have insufficient cooling, the computer will either shut down or hang during the BIOS post.

Hard drive settings correct? Some older BIOS's cannot support large hard drives without either a flash upgrade or without a drive overlay program.

BIOS won't post? Or hold it's settings? Check the battery--they last a long time, but not forever. Replace if necessary.
Still hangs during post? Could possibly be a Master Boot Record virus.


Just a few suggestions..... https://discussions.virtualdr.com/


[This message has been edited by bistro (edited 06-25-2001).]

We will have a separate section on BIOS and just want you to be able be familiar with its overall function now.

How about accessing BIOS? Would I ever need to do that? And if I had to access BIOS how do I know if the BIOS readings are right?



------------------
Seek knowledge and all else will follow


Please post back results - Press Ctl D to bookmark

Information

Quote:

---

Originally posted by bistro:
...That's basically it. Brown, white, black--pretty much industry standard now. If they ever go to designer neon colors, that's the day I'll quit. (Now watch....someone is gonna find one and post the link here....) https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

---

Tsk, tsk. Does purple count? I can't seem to find the one in pink.
Posted this image last Friday. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

http://www.ocworkbench.com/archives/jun2001/aopen1.jpg


------------------
Cheers.

[This message has been edited by Shinma (edited 06-25-2001).]

Nice graphics work shinma.
All those smiley faces. :0

------------------
SMILE
and post back
[ Book mark this post to find it again]

The computer's BIOS/CMOS is typically accessed by pressing a single keyboard key.
ie. Delete, F2, F10...
Key pressed varies among the different manufacturers and/or models.
One would enter the CMOS to tweak the system for quicker response and/or customization(s).
The CMOS menu in a typical tier-one system (ie. Compaq, Dell...) has very little options available.
The standard mobos, direct from the mobo manufacturers tyically would have a lot more.



------------------
Cheers.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Train:
Nice graphics work shinma.
All those smiley faces. :0

---

Hi Train,
That mobo is actually on sale apparently, in the Pacific Rim countries.
Not sure if they will be selling it anywhere else though.
Still can't find that pink mobo to drive bistro coo-coo! https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

------------------
Cheers.

[This message has been edited by Shinma (edited 06-25-2001).]

Shinma, there's got to be one somewhere. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

------------------
Seek knowledge and all else will follow


Please post back results - Press Ctl D to bookmark

Information

Good Morning All, Before we finished up on Mobos, troubleshooting should be discussed a little bit more and to get us started here is a general article I found that we can expand on from your personal experiences.A.)

Ideally, troubleshooting is best accomplished with duplicate parts that allow for "test" swapping. In general, it is best to troubleshoot on systems that have been leaned-out. Remove unnecessary peripherals (soundcard, modem, harddisk, etc.) to check the unworking device in as much isolation as possible. Also, when swapping devices, don't forget the power supply. Power incompetency (watts and volts) can cause intermittent problems at all levels, but especially with UARTS and HD's.
Inspect the motherboard for loose components. A loose or missing CPU, BIOS chip, Crystal Oscillator, or Chipset chip will cause the motherboard not to function. Also check for loose or missing jumper caps, missing or loose memory chips (cache and SIMM's or DIMM's). To possibly save you hours of frustration i'll mention this here, check the BIOS Setup settings. 60% of the time this is the cause of many system failures. A quick fix is to restore the BIOS Defaults. Next, eliminate the possibility of interference by a bad or improperly set up I/O card by removing all cards except the video adapter. The system should at least power up and wait for a drive time-out. Insert the cards back into the system one at a time until the problem happens again. When the system does nothing, the problem will be with the last expansion card that was put in.

B.)RESETTING CMOS.
Did you recently 'flash' your computers BIOS, and needed to change a jumper to do so? Perhaps you left the jumper in the 'flash' position which could cause the CMOS to be erased.

If you require the CMOS Reset and don't have the proper jumper settings try these methods: Our Help Desk receives so many requests on Clearing BIOS/CMOS Passwords that we've put together a standard text outlining the various solutions.


C.)NO POWER.

Switching power supplies (the most common used PC's), cannot be adequately field-tested with V/OHM meters. Remember: for most switching power supplies to work, a FLOPPY and at least 1 meg of memory must be present on the motherboard. If the necessary components are present on the motherboard and there is no power:
1) check the power cable to the wall and that the wall socket is working. (You'd be surprised!)
2) swap power supply with one that is known to work.
3) if the system still doesn't work, check for fuses on the motherboard. If there are none, you must replace the motherboard.

D.)PERIPHERAL WON'T WORK.

Peripherals are any devices that are connected to the motherboard, including I/O boards, RS232/UART devices (including mice and modems), floppies and fixed-disks, video cards, etc. On modern boards, many peripherals are integrated into the motherboard, meaning, if one peripheral fails, effectually the motherboard has to be replaced.* On older boards, peripherals were added via daughter boards.
*some MB CMOS's allow for disabling on-board devices, which may be an option for not replacing the motherboard -- though, in practicality, some peripheral boards can cost as much, if not more, than the motherboard. Also, failure of on-board devices may signal a cascading failure to other components.
1. New peripheral?

a) Check the MB BIOS documentation/setup to ensure that the BIOS supports the device and that the MB is correctly configured for the device.
(Note>> when in doubt, reset CMOS to DEFAULT VALUES. These are ) (optimized for the most generalized settings that avoid some of) (the conflicts that result from improper 'tweaking'. )
b) Check cable attachments & orientation (don't just look, reattach!)
c) If that doesn't work, double-check jumper/PnP (including software and/or MB BIOS set) settings on the device.
d) If that doesn't work, try another peripheral of same brand & model that is known to work.
e) If the swap peripheral works, the original peripheral is most likely the problem. (You can verify this by testing the non-working peripheral on a test MB of the same make & bios.)
f) If the swap periphal doesn't on the MB, verify the functionality of the first peripheral on a test machine. If the first peripheral works on another machine AND IF the set-up of the motherboard BIOS is verified AND IF all potentially conflicting peripherals have been removed OR verified to not be in conflict, the motherboard is suspect. (However, see #D below.)
g) At this point, recheck MB or BIOS documentation to see if there are known bugs with the peripheral AND to verify any MB or peripheral jumper settings that are necessary for the particular peripheral to work. Also, try a different peripheral of the same kind but a different make to see if it works. If it does not, swap the motherboard. (However, see #D below.)

2. Peripheral that worked before?

a) If the hood has been opened (or even if it has not), check the orientation and/or seating of the cables. Cables sometimes 'shake' loose or are accidentally pulled out by end-users, who then misalign or do not reattach them.
b) If that doesn't work, try the peripheral in another machine of the same make & bios that is known to work. If the peripheral still doesn't work, the peripheral is most likely the problem. (This can be verified by swapping-in a working peripheral of the same make and model AND that is configured the same as the one that is not working. If it works, then the first peripheral is the problem.)
c) If the peripheral works on another machine, double-check other peripherals and/or potential conflicts on the MB, including the power supply. If none can be found, suspect the MB.
d) At this point, recheck MB or BIOS documentation to see if there are known bugs with the peripheral AND to verify any jumper settings that might be necessary for the particular peripheral. Also, try another peripheral of the same kind but a different make to see if it works. If not, swap the motherboard!

E.)OTHER INDICATIONS OF A PROBLEM MOTHERBOARD.

1. CLOCK that won't keep correct time. >>Be sure to check/change the battery.
2. CMOS that won't hold configuration information. >>Again, check/change the battery.

Note about batteries and CMOS: in theory, CMOS should retain configuration information even if the system battery is removed or dies. In practice, some systems rely on the battery to hold this information. On these systems, a machine that is not powered-up for a week or two may report improper BIOS configuration. To check this kind of system, change the battery, power-up and run the system for several hours. If the CMOS is working, the information should be retained with the system off for more than 24 hours.


F.)BAD MOTHERBOARD OR OBSOLETE BIOS?

1. If the motherboard cannot configure to a particular peripheral, don't automatically assume a bad motherboard, even if the peripheral checks out on another machine -- especially if the other machine has a different BIOS revision. Check with the board manufacturer to see if a BIOS upgrade is available. Many BIOS upgrades can be made right on the MB with a FLASH RAM program provided by the board maker. See our BIOS page for more information.

------------------
Seek knowledge and all else will follow


Please post back results - Press Ctl D to bookmark

Information

[This message has been edited by greengoose1 (edited 06-26-2001).]

GG1,

In terms of the current topic, I (just my opinion) would say that perhaps the more appropriate bios-related discussion would be in terms of things like features offered in a bios. The pros and cons of particular settings that mb makers provide (or don't) in their bios implemenations that offer greater/lesser convenience, flexibility and control. Things like jumperless designs and SoftMenues come in to this. But there are also other settings that may or may not be present which can effect a person's ability to tweak, tailor or optimize their setup. The bios certainly is worthy of discussion here. Afterall it is a part of the motherboard. But I just think it is the things about this bios or that that are important in the decision/pre-purcahse phase of things. There are meaningful differences in different bios implementations of boards. Certainly to the potential overclocker, but not these people alone.

Bios access, settings (what to set, how) and diagnosis are probably more appropriately left (again, my opinion) to discussions in the post-purchase topics (eg. installation, troubleshooting and optimization).

------------------
Bookmark your post to make it easier to find.
And remember, please post back whether the problem is resolved or not.

Hi DrMDJ, Good point on BIOS. I felt like we should talk about it in general terms as much as possible but also give some info that people could use right now if they had a need. From what you just said, I am looking forward to what you have to say in detail when we get to it.

And now some feel good for not only DrMDJ but the rest of you contributors. I have received some nice comments about your efforts and apparently the end result is that people are learning, being helped with problems and the like. These threads have been referred to in other forums besides VirDr. As I have said more than once sharing your knowledge with those that want it is great. And hopefully it can really help. For that matter, I believe we are all learning. Thanks again for being a part of this.

And for you new readers, if you have any questions, do ask. Someone will have an answer. If we don't know the answer we will find it. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

------------------
Seek knowledge and all else will follow


Please post back results - Press Ctl D to bookmark

Information

GG1,

RE you waiting for what I have to say... I was afraid you'd say that. After further consideration I feel things were going in the right direction after all. Forget everything I said. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

And as far as the good press... It's good to know all that anonymous emailing and posting some of us have been doing is working.


------------------
Bookmark your post to make it easier to find.
And remember, please post back whether the problem is resolved or not.

Hi gang https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Since you guys are on the topic of CPU and motherboards, I wonder if you can take a look at this thread I posted:
http://discussions.virtualdr.com/For...ML/003527.html

I need a reputable dealer to buy from and maybe an opinion or two. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

I just picked up an Antec ATX mid-tower. Looking to get an already assembled combo with CPU, board, heatsink, and fan. Thanks

------------------
I want my Win98 Emachine back !!!

MAXXIMILIAN'S

DrMDJ: No problem with that. I often forget everything I said 5 minutes ago.... https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Maxx: Pricewatch is probably the best bet to find vendors. Saves a lot of time searching around. Make sure you get a good cooler for a Duron--those chips can fry an egg within a minute of booting up. Good chip for the money though. Recommend an intake and exhaust fan also.

Are we going around in a circle? Why do I feel confused? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

DrMDJ, I can't forget what you said. I've started "saving" these threads until they're finished. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Bistro, On the memory thing, that is nothing more than......... what was I saying? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

maxx, good to hear from you. What are you frying now? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/



------------------
Seek knowledge and all else will follow


Please post back results - Press Ctl D to bookmark

Information