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Just popped in to catch up on what ya'all be doin'. Gotta help son on his pickup, then I'll be back. Rather mess with computers than pickups. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ Later.
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The P4s are exactly as DrMDJ put it--not ready for prime time. I'm an Intel user from way back and would usually go up to the next step when upgrading. Not this time. #1:Looks like they got in too much of a hurry to put out the P4 and left out a few key features that puts some doubt into the quality of the chip.
#2: When I am forced to buy a new mobo to accomodate that chip (just to go from 966 to 1.3), plus RIMMs plus CRIMMs--that can get mighty expensive. Can get the same or better quality/speed/performance going other routes
for far less moolah. I think Intel made a big error there. Unfortunately, some folks IMHO are being dazzled by the "4" on "P4". Not all manufacturer "advancements" are necessarily better for the consumer. If one gets a P4 system, then later wants to upgrade (RAM in particular), be prepared to really shell out the cash. One alternative is to get a P3 1ghz and overclock it just slightly and you'd get the same speed, but better performance. Sure, the P3 may cost slightly more, but you don't have to invest gobs of money in the new mobo and compatible RAM. Just my two cents. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
[This message has been edited by bistro (edited 06-23-2001).]
I did not realize the P4 had that many issues with it. After it first came out there seemed to be questions about this or that. Looks like alot of those questions were answered. But also seems like they rushed it to market. There were writeups on that in some of the trade papers. I believe Microsoft did the same thing. Technology suffers when there's a race on. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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Not to change the topic, but I've been reading a heck of a lot of posts lately from folks who have had one problem or another with onboard video/sound/modems.
While some have no problems with these, IMHO they are the lucky minority. While motherboards that have these onboard features may seem like a real deal and a time-saver, again IMHO, they would be much better off getting the actual cards. Now, I have purchased mobos that have onboard sound, but with absolutely no
intention of using the onboard--it simply had other specific features I was looking for that I couldn't find on others; the onboard turned off in the BIOS. "All-in-one's" may be appealing budget-wise (or simplicity in installing), but they seem to be more trouble than they are worth.
[This message has been edited by bistro (edited 06-23-2001).]
bistro
I will add that reading the manual on what to install and how, would help most of them I do believe. Also, the knowledge that I have found most of the newer mobo manual at the manufactures websites. Motherboards that is as I can not say that for computer manufactors and what they do to their stuff.
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hi
personal opinions here...
sound on board is plenty okay for me, since I need no super duper soundcard.
my Iwill doesnt have onboard.
the aopen AX34 pro II has a chippy I can live with
some boards have a jumper to disable it, and/or the BIOS setting.
video on board is NOT okay for me.
It can be okay for an office machine, but even the best onboard VGA are a poor excuse when compared to the humble TNT2, and they usually eat a chunk out of your RAM.
Back to sound on board
some mobo have the ensonique/creative SB128 on board, and that ain't such a bad thing to have.
( Soundcard I plugged in Iwill is a SB128)
others have a yamaha, and these can be plenty Okay too.
But, for the sound enthusiast, an onboard sound chip usually isn't good enough, and it may indeed clash with the card you plug in it.
with any luck, it can be totally disabled.
IMHO, that should be with a jumper.
funny as this may seem, I saw a mobo without the sound chip, which still had the sound onboard settings in BIOS.
I can imagine that this can clash with a high end soundcard.
there you have it all over again, there are many considerations when you want to purchase a new motherboard.
and many people never even give it a second thought.
All they see is OH, WOW, a 1.X gigahurts
Sadly, a new local store in my area is advertising Hurtz. Uninformed buyers fall for it.
they are lured into buying a Great Hurts with a paltry 8 meg video system of three or four chip generations ago...
https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
that duron I built?
fairly cheap K7VZA, ECS elitegroup KT133A/686B mobo, it has sound on board
I could have used a cheaper barebone and cellie solution (I think I could have saved him all of $30...)
but jeesh, I would not wanna dissapoint the guy's kids with a poor video system.
My resoning is this...
what's the point in choking a system by introducing a bottleneck from the start?
exactly.
'nuff said
end of personal rants.
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Isn't There Always "something entirely different" we'll need to reconsider?
Kind regards, Jaak.
Re onboard video/sound...
For those putting together basic, lower end, basic use type systems having these features onboard proably may well meet there needs, and does allow for some cost savings. Now for those with more demanding needs or tastes in terms of audio/video, the onboard stuff is never going to cut it. By all means if one is adding a sound and video card then they are better off not getting these onboard if possible. They can just add complication. Unfortunately, a lot of (otherwise) good boards have these features. I wouldn't tell someone not to get a particular board because it had these. But I would agree to not get them, or avoid them, if you plan to add seperate sound and video cards (other things being equal).
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Something else I'll offer my opinion on, and ask for those of others...
Boards can have a lot of subtle things about them that make them easier to deal with, or work on. Things like where jumpers and or switches are placed, where certain components/sockets/etc are placed on a board, where things are in relation to other things. As an example, some boards have jumpers/switches in tough places to get at once the board is installed or everything is assembled. Another example is where boards have capacitors (or the like) so close to things like the cpu socket that it can make installtion a pain. The list goes on...
So for my money the subtleties of board layout, "accessibility" on a board, can be something worth considering when selecting one. Usually the more notable review sites will talk about such things in reviewing boards (yet another reason people should look at these reviews when deciding). Granted, none of this necessarily has anything to do with a boards reliability or performance, but... Then again, there can be a relation of sorts. Often seeing that there was thought put in to the design may give an indication of the manufacturer's attention to detail and quality.
Any boards that anyone finds paricularly good or bad in this regard? Any specific problems anyone's had?
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Good Morning All, Did anyone else find the board slow last night? Seems OK now.
DrMDJ, These are the things that are important to bring out to save others time money and therefore eliminate problems before becoming a problem. I think understanding the Mobo will go a long way in doing the most good for those starting out.
There is just a tremendous amount that you can learn about Mobos and CPUs. And you will never learn everything as there are always continuing improvements. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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avoid the p4's as well they do have the upsides but as learning here mine has failed quite often
Good Morning All, Let's take a look at the PCI slots on the Mobo. What type of cards go in these slots? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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Hmmm, that's a tough one. I wish you would start giving multiple choice questions GG1. Alright, I'm gonna go for broke. Would PCI cards go in these slots? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ (Couldn't resist...)
Nowadays, with the exception of graphics cards (and these can be had in PCI too) almost any add-on card one would be looking to put in would be pci. Modems, sound, network, extra USB or disk controllers (SCSI, RAID or IDE), MPEG decoders, firewire, extra parallel or serial ports. You can get ISA versions of some of these, but PCI versions would be preferred. The PCI bus runs faster, will yield better performance (because of things like Bus Mastering capabilities, etc), and cards on it are easier to configure.
It use to be that if a board had a couple of PCI slots that was more than enough, because most cards were ISA based. Now a person can use up 3 or 4 PCI slots without even trying. This coupled with the fact that some boards don't support bus mastering in all PCI slots, some use different arrangements of shared vs. non-shared IRQs for the slots, and that Slot 1 can be effectively unusable on some when an AGP video card is used, most people will want/need a board with 5 or more PCI slots. Fortunately this isn't a problem as most current boards offer this many.
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We have taken a look at the different slots on the mobo. What is the easiest way to remember what card goes where when building a computer?
Another question on the color coding of slots. Why should I know the what the different colors mean? Is this just the way it happened as Mobos evolved to todays state of the art?
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Can't really say how the colors of the expansion slots evolved. AGP:light brown, AGP vid cards only--closest slot to the CPU.
Simply put, it's a glorified PCI slot. A little shorter than standard PCI.
PCI: off-white, medium length (compared to ISA). Usually numbered from 1 to 5 or 6, starting from the one next to the AGP slot. Usually a good idea to leave the #1 PCI slot (next to the AGP) empty--allows for good air flow to the vid card. If one has a PCI video card and an AGP slot on the mobo, put the PCI vid in PCI slot #1. Usually recommended to put the sound card in PCI slot #2 (has an assigned IRQ). Other cards (modems, network interface cards (NICs), controller cards, etc.) can be placed in the PCI slots wherever one chooses pretty much.
ISA: long, black slots. Mobos used to be all ISA or EISA (Extended ISA--just a bit longer). Slowly being phased out, which is unfortunate IMHO, when it comes to modems. Prefer an ISA modem to a PCI modem---doesn't rely on the processor as much as a PCI. Anyhoo, they are still available on many motherboards to accomodate not only ISA modems, but any "legacy" (older ISA) cards.
That's basically it. Brown, white, black--pretty much industry standard now. If they ever go to designer neon colors, that's the day I'll quit. (Now watch....someone is gonna find one and post the link here....) https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
[This message has been edited by bistro (edited 06-25-2001).]
Now let's look at troubleshooting the Mobo and the best place to start with is the BIOS. Nowadays this is a chip that you can flash if need be. In troubleshooting the BIOS there are several things to check as you are going through the troubleshooting procedure. Can you describe a typical procedure? What do you check first, second, etc?
The reason we are looking at the BIOS is that we get a lot of similar questions on it, when in actuality it is not difficult to understand. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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