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JTDoom, Even when Bistro is wrong, he is right. Downright infuriating. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ LOLROF https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
Now if I buy a CPU or Mobo/CPU, what do I buy, the one that has the manual for a higher price or a barebones component? And Why?
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greengoose: What can I say? It's a gift.... https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
Now if I buy a CPU or Mobo/CPU, what do I buy, the one that has the manual for a higher price or a barebones component? And Why?
In other words, separate components or barebones (partially assembled)(?). Deals can be had for barebones--didn't use to be that way. Most the the barebones systems I encountered in the far past were inexpensive, but the mobo/CPU/case combinations left MUCH to be desired. They've improved them a lot though over the past few years. Would behoove you to take a good look at them (there's still some bad ones out there though--be careful). Remember:For the most part; Cheap is, cheap does.
Best thing to do is to narrow your choices down to 2 or 3 mobos, a particular processor, then get an average price on them if bought separately, then look around at some barebones dealers and see if they have those in a combo--compare the price. Barebones usually come with a case and power supply (not all "barebones"--some are just mobo and CPU). Is that the case you want?
Sometimes it's a great mobo/CPU combo, but the case stinks. Are you willing to settle, or do you want quality/first choice all around? Decisions, decisions.....
[This message has been edited by bistro (edited 06-20-2001).]
In other words let the buyer beware and take the time to do your homework. If you don't and after you have your unit running, problems will arise that you didn't need to have. The idea of using forums to gain real time information is another resource you have. Again take your time - Do not rush the process if you want to do it right.
After installing the mobo how can I tell if I did it correctly or do I have to wait until other components are installed?
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Hi Guys,
greengoose1 has asked me to post the postings I had saved - so here it goes:
As we have just covered cases and power supplies, the next pieces of hardware or components to be covered is the Motherboard and Central Processing Unit. The mobo (motherboard) and case go hand in hand as you will see and if you bought the CPU (central Processing Unit) separate it would be best to install it on the mobo before the mobo is mounted in the case.
The mobo you see is a good example and is clear enough to discuss the pros and cons, where everything is, etc.
I got this from the Abit site. You can see where the CPU is and the slots for cards of various types.
Let us start. This is an ATX board and we have seen in the last thread that there are ATX cases. Why is this type of designation needed? Then can someone breakdown the acronyms in the name of the board? What do we have to be careful of in handling this board.
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Shinma
Member
Posts: 391
From:
Registered: Jul 2000
posted 06-16-2001 11:58 PM "TYPE=PICT;ALT=ClickHeretoSeetheProfileforShinma""TYPE=PICT;ALT=Edit/DeleteMessage""TYPE=PICT;ALT=Replyw/Quote"
I generally get the people to decide on the processor brand first,
Since mobos for current AMD processors are not compatible with those intended for Intel.
There is also the matter of Intel's P4 requiring its own specifications as well.
------------------
Cheers.
T-bolt
Member
Posts: 44
From:Phoenix, Arizona, United States
Registered: May 2001
posted 06-17-2001 01:33 AM "TYPE=PICT;ALT=ClickHeretoSeetheProfileforT-bolt""TYPE=PICT;ALT=ClickHeretoEmailT-bolt""TYPE=PICT;ALT=Edit/DeleteMessage""TYPE=PICT;ALT=Replyw/Quote"
So then, I need to make a decision on which to use, AMD or Intel, prior to purchasing the mobo? Or are there some boards that will accommodate both?
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ceh383
Member
Posts: 817
From:Canoga Park, CA, USA
Registered: Dec 2000
posted 06-17-2001 03:18 AM "TYPE=PICT;ALT=ClickHeretoSeetheProfileforceh383""TYPE=PICT;ALT=ClickHeretoEmailceh3"TYPE=PICT;ALT=Edit/DeleteMessage""TYPE=PICT;ALT=Replyw/Quote"
The Webopedia definition of ATXSeems reasonable to me. As for a MOBO that will accept both AMD and INTEL processors I don't think one exists, if one does I've never seen one.
I would want to know what the computer is going to be used for before making any decisions, there is no point in going with a 1.3ghz P3 or T-Bird if the machine is going to be used for E-mail & word processing. For these you could save money and use a K6-2 or a Celeron.
No matter what, I would read as many reviews as possible on several boards that might fit the bill. The key things to look for....1-Stability....2-Possible hardware conflicts....3-Performance.
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I am currently researching MOBs to build my first PC. This has been the hardest and most important feature. I have decided on the AMD CPU. This was an easy decision considering the price and performance. Next was do I get a Duron 800Mhz @ GBP48 or a Athlon 900 (266FSB) @ GBP130. Everyone has advised me to go strait for the Athlon. I am still leaning to the Duron and upgrade when prices come down. Any thoughts and reasoning?
So to the MOB - I am looking at the GA-7ZXR Rev.3.0. If you know of a better one in the same price range please let me know. Please also let me know why you think it is better. Top of my list is future upgradeability. Also what components I can use from my current system to keep the costs down. I can then add good quality items later at my leisure and as the prices come down or I can afford them.
CPU - will it support Duron to Athlon. The chosen claims to support 500MHz Duron to 1.5Ghz 266/200 Athlon and greater. The FSB is 95~150MHz. I thought the 266/200 referred to the FSB in which case 95~150MHz does not seem enough? Also, this MOB uses the VIA KT133A chipset which I have been told does not support 266 Athlon - any comments?
Memory - Does the MOB support PC100/PC133 SDRAM as a minimum and maybe PC2100 DDR SDRAM (this MOB does not support the latter). What is the performance difference between 256Mb of PC133 SDRAM and PC2100 DDR SDRAM using the same processor. I have been told it is negligible. Again your comments please. Also, I have seen on these pages that Windows software will only support up to 512Mb of memory after this the performance actually starts to degrade. Therefore, the fact that the MOB supports up to 1.5Gb of memory does not mean much. Also I plan to use PC133 even if I get the Duron. This will be stepped down to PC100 - however, it will save me getting faster memory later.
ISA slot - only if you want to use your old sound card. This MOB has inbuilt sound which will do until I get a high speck PCI slot sound card much later.
PCI slots - This MOB has six allowing for plenty of expansion. How many do you need? 2HDD's (as master slave take up one), CD-RW (later purchase - use current CR-585 40x for now), DVD (later purchase), sound card (later purchase), video card. That makes five to start with unless the CR-RW and DVD can be master/slave - your comments. That leaves one/two for expansion. I plan to use my current video card (Matrox Mystique 4Mb) until I can afford and Ati All-in-Wonder Radeon. That way I do not need a separate video capture card - saving a slot. Will the MOB support your old 66 HDD until you get a new 100 HDD? I will be using my old WD ATA/66 IDE HDD until I can afford a new IBM HDD.
AMR (Audio Modem Riser) - for your modem.
AGP slot - Not very common at the moment but will come in handy later.
BIOS - DualBIOS I have been told is very handy. I know nothing about this though - your comments please.
H/W monitoring especially temperature detect is handy if not essential.
Other features - your comments on what it all means:
Suspend-To-RAM (STR);
Wake-On-LAN (WOL);
USB KB/MS Wake up from S3;
Poly fuse for keyboard over-current protection.
Also if you are upgrading from a very old system, like me, your old mouse and keyboard will need replacing for PS/2 devices.
OS support - Some version of LINUX have had compatibility problems with the AMD CPU. Any other OS compatibility problems we should be aware of?
RAID - onboard RAID support can come in handy to protect your data. Pros and cons?
In the end I want to be able to connect my Video 8 Camera and edit the video. Maybe some day I will be able to afford a DV Camera and a digital camera.
Of course when handling the CPU and MOBO you have to be careful of static electricity. Some say it is mandatory to have a ground wrist strap others say just be careful?
Sorry if I have made any stupid mistakes/statements. I am only a beginner at this so please feel free to correct me (in simple language).
I look forward to hearing views and comments on the above from everyone else.
Regards,
Glyn
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Weekly Subject - 06- Mobos and CPUs
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Author Topic: Weekly Subject - 06- Mobos and CPUs
greengoose1
Member
Posts: 2102
From:graham, tx, us
Registered: Oct 2000
posted 06-16-2001 10:50 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As we have just covered cases and power supplies, the next pieces of hardware or compoments to be covered is the Motherboard and Central Processing Unit. The mobo (motherboard) and case go hand in hand as you will see and if you bought the CPU (central Processing Unit) separate it would be best to install it on the mobo before the mobo is mounted in the case.
The mobo you see is a good example and is clear enough to discuss the pros and cons, where everything is, etc.
I got this from the Abit site. You can see where the CPU is and the slots for cards of various types.
Let us start. This is an ATX board and we have seen in the last thread that there are ATX cases. Why is this type of designation needed? Then can someone breakdown the acronyms in the name of the board? What do we have to be careful of in handling this board.
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Shinma
Member
Posts: 399
From:
Registered: Jul 2000
posted 06-16-2001 11:58 PM
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I generally get the people to decide on the processor brand first,
Since mobos for current AMD processors are not compatible with those intended for Intel.
There is also the matter of Intel's P4 requiring its own specifications as well.
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T-bolt
Member
Posts: 45
From:Phoenix, Arizona, United States
Registered: May 2001
posted 06-17-2001 01:33 AM
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So then, I need to make a decision on which to use, AMD or Intel, prior to purchasing the mobo? Or are there some boards that will accomadate both?
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ceh383
Member
Posts: 821
From:Canoga Park, CA, USA
Registered: Dec 2000
posted 06-17-2001 03:18 AM
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The Webopedia definition of ATXSeems reasonsble to me. As for a MOBO that will accept both AMD and INTEL processors I don't think one exists, if one does I've never seen one.
I would want to know what the computer is going to be used for before making any decisions, there is no point in going with a 1.3ghz P3 or T-Bird if the machine is going to be used for E-mail & word processing. For these you could save money and use a K6-2 or a Celeron.
No matter what, I would read as many reviews as possible on several boards that might fit the bill. The key things to look for....1-Stability....2-Possible hardware conflicts....3-Performance.
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Train
Member
Posts: 5335
From:Auburn,Wa.
Registered: Apr 2000
posted 06-17-2001 11:51 AM
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For questions on definitions/meanings I use http://www.webopedia.com/
Cost of cpu's can be a driving factor in building/upgrading a computer, so take a good look at that aspect. Example here
Or you can go to www.pricewatch.com and under cpu select processor-pc and take a look.
It has been a while since a motherboard has been able to take both AMD and Intel cpu's been made. So, you will need to get one made for the cpu you chose.
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greengoose1
Member
Posts: 2102
From:graham, tx, us
Registered: Oct 2000
posted 06-17-2001 12:03 PM
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Good Morning All, Had an Email from a member saying they couldn't post "a rather long post". Has their been problems posting in the past day. I was out of pocket quite a bit of the past 24 hours is why I'm asking.
Had another Email regarding Antec cases wanting an opinion on them. You might see a new thread on Antec popup. Regarding this same Email, on page three of Cases and Power Supplies Antec was covered somewhat. What I am concerned with here are the newer members reading long threads that have more than one page. Each page in a thread is listed at the top left under the title of the thread and all you have to do is click on 1,2,3 etc.
In the opening post I asked three questions that are not difficult. Again, we are trying to give information in an easy to understand manner to newer members. The more knowledgeable a person is that person (and I have done it)will take for granted that the person reading will understand. For you reading, do not be afraid to ask for clarification if you need to. As you can see, if you have been reading along, our "experts" love to talk and talk and talk and...... you get the idea. Seriously, they can and will help you.
This subject we are on right now is the core of your computer and needs to be looked at in depth as we go along. We see alot of questions on the forums dealing with one or another of the individual part or function that we are talking about. Have fun.
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Train
Member
Posts: 5335
From:Auburn,Wa.
Registered: Apr 2000
posted 06-17-2001 01:19 PM
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Greengoose1
Yes, there have been glitches in posting. I just wait a little bit and try again. Ask Dodge about what happens sometimes.
Whole thread disappears. And that was not the first time it has happened either.
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Train
Member
Posts: 5335
From:Auburn,Wa.
Registered: Apr 2000
posted 06-17-2001 01:23 PM
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In case you MISSED it
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GlynBartlett
Member
Posts: 14
From:Ingatestone, Essex, UK
Registered: May 2001
posted 06-17-2001 02:14 PM
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I am currently researching MOBs to build my first PC. This has been the hardest and most important feature. I have decided on the AMD CPU. This was an easy decision considering the price and performance. Next was do I get a Duron 800Mhz @ GBP48 or a Athlon 900 (266FSB) @ GBP130. Everyone has advised me to go strait for the Athlon. I am still leaning to the Duron and upgrade when prices come down. Any thoughts and reasoning?
So to the MOB - I am looking at the GA-7ZXR Rev.3.0. If you know of a better one in the same price range please let me know. Please also let me know why you think it is better. Top of my list is future upgradeability. Also what components I can use from my current system to keep the costs down. I can then add good quality items later at my leisure and as the prices come down or I can afford them.
CPU - will it support Duron to Athlon. The chosen claims to support 500MHz Duron to 1.5Ghz 266/200 Athlon and greater. The FSB is 95~150MHz. I thought the 266/200 referred to the FSB in which case 95~150MHz does not seem enough? Also, this MOB uses the VIA KT133A chipset which I have been told does not support 266 Athlon - any comments?
Memory - Does the MOB support PC100/PC133 SDRAM as a minimum and maybe PC2100 DDR SDRAM (this MOB does not support the latter). What is the performance difference between 256Mb of PC133 SDRAM and PC2100 DDR SDRAM using the same processor. I have been told it is negligible. Again your comments please. Also, I have seen on these pages that Windows software will only support up to 512Mb of memory after this the performance actually starts to degrade. Therefore, the fact that the MOB supports up to 1.5Gb of memory does not mean much. Also I plan to use PC133 even if I get the Duron. This will be stepped down to PC100 - however, it will save me getting faster memory later.
ISA slot - only if you want to use your old sound card. This MOB has inbuilt sound which will do until I get a high speck PCI slot sound card much later.
PCI slots - This MOB has six allowing for plenty of expansion. How many do you need? 2HDD's (as master slave take up one), CD-RW (later purchase - use current CR-585 40x for now), DVD (later purchase), sound card (later purchase), video card. That makes five to start with unless the CR-RW and DVD can be master/slave - your comments. That leaves one/two for expansion. I plan to use my current video card (Matrox Mystique 4Mb) until I can afford and Ati All-in-Wonder Radeon. That way I do not need a separate video capture card - saving a slot. Will the MOB support your old 66 HDD until you get a new 100 HDD? I will be using my old WD ATA/66 IDE HDD until I can afford a new IBM HDD.
AMR (Audio Modem Riser) - for your modem.
AGP slot - Not very common at the moment but will come in handy later.
BIOS - DualBIOS I have been told is very handy. I know nothing about this though - your comments please.
H/W monitoring especially temperature detect is handy if not essential.
Other features - your comments on what it all means:
Suspend-To-RAM (STR);
Wake-On-LAN (WOL);
USB KB/MS Wake up from S3;
Poly fuse for keyboard over-current protection.
Also if you are upgrading from a very old system, like me, your old mouse and keyboard will need replacing for PS/2 devices.
OS support - Some version of LINUX have had compatibility problems with the AMD CPU. Any other OS compatibility problems we should be aware of?
RAID - onboard RAID support can come in handy to protect your data. Pros and cons?
In the end I want to be able to connect my Video 8 Camera and edit the video. Maybe some day I will be able to afford a DV Camera and a digital camera.
Of course when handling the CPU and MOBO you have to be careful of static electricity. Some say it is mandatory to have a ground wrist strap others say just be careful?
Sorry if I have made any stupid mistakes/statements. I am only a beginner at this so please feel free to correct me (in simple language).
I look forward to hearing views and comments on the above from everyone else.
Regards,
Glyn
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greengoose1
Member
Posts: 2102
From:graham, tx, us
Registered: Oct 2000
posted 06-17-2001 02:49 PM
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You made it - great. Long yes and well done. There are no such things as stupid mistakes/statements when your learning and asking questions. But there are dumb mistakes as in not paying attention to detail and following instructions. I had great experience in this area as a young man and then I went into the military. A most rude awakening.
Read the tags on the mobo at the top of this thread for familiarization. Then go to www.google.com and type in one word "motherboard". And do a little reading while we're getting your answers. Your answers from different members can take up to 24 hours since the answers can come from all over the world.
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[This message has been edited by greengoose1 (edited 06-17-2001).]
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Shinma
Member
Posts: 399
From:
Registered: Jul 2000
posted 06-17-2001 03:46 PM
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For future postings, if members could number their questions if there is going to be quite a few of them.
That will get answers more quickly since others will not have to repeat/cut and paste the questions in their response. Note that long threads will require us to open up double browsers to keep one for question and one while we are answering.
"...leaning to the Duron and upgrade ...
Performance difference of *approx. 10% and note that Athlon will perform better on graphics intensive applications such as Adobe PhotoShop. For regular office type use, the Duron should suffice.
"...looking at the GA-7ZXR Rev.3.0...
No comment at this time.
"...will it support Duron to Athlon. ...
Yes. It will support Duron and both the Athlon types.
"...mobo uses the VIA KT133A chipset which I have been told does not support 266 Athlon ...
False. The Via KT133A chipset does support the 266MHz Athlon processors.
"...performance difference between 256Mb of PC133 SDRAM and PC2100 DDR SDRAM ...
*Approximately 10% increase with the DDR memory.
...Does the MOB support PC100/PC133 SDRAM as a minimum ...
*Yes. But note that it is not really worth the bother of using PC100 since CAS2 is recommended in that case.
...ISA slot ...
? No. It does not have an ISA expansion slot.
...PCI slots - This MOB has six allowing for plenty of expansion. How many do you need? 2HDD's ...
?!? Clarify. HDD (Hard Disk Drive) do *not use PCI expansion slots.
...support your old 66 HDD until you get a new 100 HDD? ...
Yes. Those meeting ATA standards are backward compatible.
...AMR (Audio Modem Riser) ...
Synonym for junk.
...AGP slot - Not very common at the moment but will come in handy later....
?!? AGP is the current standard for video cards/graphic boards.
...H/W monitoring...
? Was that a question?
...DualBIOS ...
Extra safety precaution in case of error caused during a BIOS file update.
As to the question on features, I'll let the others respond.
*All else being equal, usual circumstance(s), conditions...
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[This message has been edited by Shinma (edited 06-17-2001).]
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greengoose1
Member
Posts: 2102
From:graham, tx, us
Registered: Oct 2000
posted 06-17-2001 04:36 PM
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Shinma, That was a good point on the numbering of questions for a post with many questions. Thanks for bringing it up.
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Shinma
Member
Posts: 399
From:
Registered: Jul 2000
posted 06-17-2001 04:40 PM
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by greengoose1:
Shinma, That was a good point on the numbering of questions for a post with many questions. Thanks for bringing it up.
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What can I say? I'm lazy!
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wonderinguy34
Member
Posts: 715
From: Nanaimo ,B.C. Canada
Registered: Mar 2000
posted 06-17-2001 05:07 PM
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Shinma covered evrything pretty well ,but I'll just add a couple
quote:
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Originally posted by GlynBartlett:
Athlon 900 (266FSB) @ GBP130. The Athlon 900 is 200 FSB not until 1Ghz is there a 266 FSb athlon (usually referred to as a Athlon C or Tbird C)
Also what components I can use from my current system to keep the costs down.You don't mention what your current components are ?
CPU - I thought the 266/200 referred to the FSB in which case 95~150MHz does not seem enough? While the board runs at 100 or 133 FSB, the CPU runs at 200 or 266 due to it's EV6 DDR architecture.
This will be stepped down to PC100 - however, it will save me getting faster memory later.Not sure about that particular board ,but you can usually run your memory at 133FSb(host + PCI) and the processor at 100FSb if it requires.You can't however run PC100 with a 133FSB Processor(without the RAm being overclocked) .
ISA slot - only if you want to use your old sound card.There are other ISA devices i.e. a ISA vid card is helpful if a Bios flash goes bad .I use my ISA slot for my SCSI card (scanner)
PCI slots - This MOB has six allowing for plenty of expansion. How many do you need? As I found out in the last thread The ISA slot(if there is one) usually shares its case slot with the last PCI slot ,so if you use the ISA you may have use of one less PCI.
RAID - onboard RAID support can come in handy to protect your data. Pros and cons?Unless you need to add more IDE devices HDD/CDROM/DVD/CDRW RAID is more hassle than its worth IMO.
Of course when handling the CPU and MOBO you have to be careful of static electricity. Some say it is mandatory to have a ground wrist strap others say just be careful?The amount of ESD needed to cause damage is far less than can be felt by humans.So its always a good Idea to take precautions.
Sorry if I have made any stupid mistakes/statements. I am only a beginner at this so please feel free to correct me (in simple language).I'm not sure if some of what you've written are questions or observations ?so feel free to ignore me if I've assume incorrectly
Regards,
Glyn
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jtdoom
Member
Posts: 2982
From:Eeklo, East-Flanders, Belgium
Registered: Oct 2000
posted 06-17-2001 07:02 PM
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boilerplate about motherboard related stuff
thanx to webopedia
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BUS = (1) A collection of wires through which data is transmitted from one part of a computer to another. You can think of a bus as a highway on which data travels within a computer. When used in reference to personal computers, the term bus usually refers to internal bus. This is a bus that connects all the internal computer components to the CPU and main memory. There's also an expansion bus that enables expansion boards to access the CPU and memory.
All buses consist of two parts -- an address bus and a data bus. The data bus transfers actual data whereas the address bus transfers information about where the data should go.
The size of a bus, known as its width, is important because it determines how much data can be transmitted at one time. For example, a 16-bit bus can transmit 16 bits of data, whereas a 32-bit bus can transmit 32 bits of data.
Every bus has a clock speed measured in MHz. A fast bus allows data to be transferred faster, which makes applications run faster. On PCs, the old ISA bus is being replaced by faster buses such as PCI.
Nearly all PCs made today include a local bus for data that requires especially fast transfer speeds, such as video data. The local bus is a high-speed pathway that connects directly to the processor.
Several different types of buses are used on Apple Macintosh computers. Older Macs use a bus called NuBus, but newer ones use PCI.
(2) In networking, a bus is a central cable that connects all devices on a local-area network (LAN). It is also called the backbone.
================
AGP = Short for Accelerated Graphics Port, a new interface specification developed by Intel Corporation. AGP is based on PCI, but is designed especially for the throughput demands of 3-D graphics. Rather than using the PCI bus for graphics data, AGP introduces a dedicated point-to-point channel so that the graphics controller can directly access main memory. The AGP channel is 32 bits wide and runs at 66 MHz. This translates into a total bandwidth of 266 MBps, as opposed to the PCI bandwidth of 133 MBps. AGP also supports two optional faster modes, with throughputs of 533 MBps and 1.07 GBps. In addition, AGP allows 3-D textures to be stored in main memory rather than video memory.
AGP has a couple important system requirements:
The chipset must support AGP.
The motherboard must be equipped with an AGP bus slot or must have an integrated AGP graphics system.
The operating system must be the OSR 2.1 version of Windows 95, Windows 98 or Windows NT 4.0. And currently, many professional Macintoshes suport AGP.
AGP-enabled computers and graphics accelerators hit the market in August, 1997. However, there are several different levels of AGP compliance. The following features are considered optional:
Texturing: Also called Direct Memory Execute mode, allows textures to be stored in main memory.
Throughput: Various levels of throughput are offered: 1X is 266 MBps, 2X is 533 MBps; and 4X provides 1.07 GBps.
Sideband Addressing: Speeds up data transfers by sending command instructions in a separate, parallel channel.
Pipelining: Enables the graphics card to send several instructions together instead of sending one at a time.
============
PCI= Acronym for Peripheral Component Interconnect, a local bus standard developed by Intel Corporation. Most modern PCs include a PCI bus in addition to a more general ISA expansion bus. Many analysts, however, believe that PCI will eventually supplant ISA entirely. PCI is also used on newer versions of the Macintosh computer.
PCI is a 64-bit bus, though it is usually implemented as a 32-bit bus. It can run at clock speeds of 33 or 66 MHz. At 32 bits and 33 MHz, it yields a throughput rate of 133 MBps.
Although it was developed by Intel, PCI is not tied to any particular family of microprocessors
===========
USB = Short for Universal Serial Bus, a new external bus standard that supports data transfer rates of 12 Mbps (12 million bits per second). A single USB port can be used to connect up to 127 peripheral devices, such as mice, modems, and keyboards. USB also supports Plug-and-Play installation and hot plugging.
Starting in 1996, a few computer manufacturers started including USB support in their new machines. It wasn't until the release of the best-selling iMac in 1998 that USB became widespread. It is expected to completely replace serial and parallel ports.
==========
PS-2 = A type of port developed by IBM for connecting a mouse or keyboard to a PC. The PS/2 port supports a mini DIN plug containing just 6 pins. Most PCs have a PS/2 port so that the serial port can be used by another device, such as a modem. The PS/2 port is often called the mouse port.
==========
SDRAM = Short for Synchronous DRAM, a new type of DRAM that can run at much higher clock speeds than conventional memory. SDRAM actually synchronizes itself with the CPU's bus and is capable of running at 133 MHz, about three times faster than conventional FPM RAM, and about twice as fast EDO DRAM and BEDO DRAM. SDRAM is replacing EDO DRAM in many newer computers
Today's fastest Pentium systems use CPU buses running at 100 MHz, so SDRAM can keep up with them, though barely. Future PCs, however, are expected to have CPU buses running at 200 MHz or faster. SDRAM is not expected to support these high speeds which is why new memory technologies, such as RDRAM and SLDRAM, are being developed.
==========
CNR = Acronym for Communication and Networking Riser. Developed by Intel, CNR is a riser card for ATX family motherboards that was developed in order to reduce the cost to OEMs of implementing LAN, home networking, audio and modem subsystems widely used in modern connected PCs. The CNR Specification is an open industry specification that defines a scalable motherboard riser card and interface that support the audio, modem, and network interfaces of core logic chipsets. The specification is supported by OEMs, Microsoft and silicon suppliers. The specification defines the CNR architecture for both standard and low-profile risers and includes electrical, mechanical, and thermal requirements of the riser interface. In addition to supporting current technologies such as Ethernet and analog modems, the specification can be expanded for developing technologies, such as DSL.
==========
UART = Pronounced u-art, and short for universal asynchronous receiver-transmitter, the UART is a computer component that handles asynchronous serial communication. Every computer contains a UART to manage the serial ports, and all internal modems have their own UART.
As modems have become increasingly fast, the UART has come under greater scrutiny as the cause of transmission bottlenecks. If you are purchasing a fast external modem, make sure that the computer's UART can handle the modem's maximum transmission rate. The newer 16550 UART contains a 16-byte buffer, enabling it to support higher transmission rates than the older 8250 UART.
==========
EPP =
Short for Enhanced Parallel Port, a parallel port standard for PCs that supports bi-directional communication between the PC and attached devices (such as a printer). EPP is about 10 times faster than the older Centronics standard.
Another modern parallel port for PCs that offers similar performance is the ECP (Extended Capabilities Port).
ECP = Short for Extended Capabilities Port, a parallel-port standard for PCs that supports bi-directional communication between the PC and attached devices (such as a printer). ECP is about 10 times faster than the older Centronics standard.
the old standard Parallel Port wasn't bi-directional,
You will often need change paralllel port settings in BIOS to ECP-EPP in order to get better performance out of modern printers and scanners, or to even get them to work properly.
===========
BIOS = Pronounced "bye-ose," an acronym for basic input/output system. The BIOS is built-in software that determines what a computer can do without accessing programs from a disk. On PCs, the BIOS contains all the code required to control the keyboard, display screen, disk drives, serial communications, and a number of miscellaneous functions.
The BIOS is typically placed in a ROM chip that comes with the computer (it is often called a ROM BIOS). This ensures that the BIOS will always be available and will not be damaged by disk failures. It also makes it possible for a computer to boot itself. Because RAM is faster than ROM, though, many computer manufacturers design systems so that the BIOS is copied from ROM to RAM each time the computer is booted. This is known as shadowing.
Many modern PCs have a flash BIOS, which means that the BIOS has been recorded on a flash memory chip, which can be updated if necessary.
The PC BIOS is fairly standardized, so all PCs are similar at this level (although there are different BIOS versions). Additional DOS functions are usually added through software modules. This means you can upgrade to a newer version of DOS without changing the BIOS.
PC BIOSes that can handle Plug-and-Play (PnP) devices are known as PnP BIOSes, or PnP-aware BIOSes. These BIOSes are always implemented with flash memory rather than ROM.
===========
P&P =
Short for Plug and Play, a technology developed by Microsoft and Intel that supports plug-and-play installation. PnP is built into the Windows 95 operating system, but to use it, the computer's BIOS and expansion boards must also support PnP.
often said to stand for plug and pray.
however, most new hardware will be P&P
(the all-singing All dancing cards are "resource" hungry, in that they use a lot of adresses and may conflict with another card's IRQ.
===========
IRQ
Abbreviation of interrupt request line, and pronounced I-R-Q. IRQs are hardware lines over which devices can send interrupt signals to the microprocessor. When you add a new device to a PC, you sometimes need to set its IRQ number by setting a DIP switch. This specifies which interrupt line the device may use. IRQ conflicts used to be a common problem when adding expansion boards, but the Plug-and-Play specification has removed this headache in most cases.
===========
ACPI
Short for Advanced Configuration and Power Interface, a power management specification developed by Intel, Microsoft, and Toshiba. ACPI, which will be part of the next version of Windows, enables the operating system to control the amount of power given to each device attached to the computer. With ACPI, the operating system can turn off peripheral devices, such as a CD-ROM players, when they're not in use. As another example, ACPI will enable manufacturers to produce computers that automatically power up as soon as you touch the keyboard.
ACPI is one of the main reasons a power supply has to be up to par.
once a device has gone in suspend, it needs a certain amount of power to "awake"
if the Power Supply Unit is too weak, the device may stay in limbo.
============
FRONTSIDE BUS
The bus within a microprocessor that connects the CPU with main memory. It's used to communicate between the motherboard and other components in a computer system.
In contrast, a backside bus connects the CPU to a Level 2 cache.
=============
CHIPSET
A number of integrated circuits designed to perform one or more related functions. For example, one chipset may provide the basic functions of a modem while another provides the CPU functions for a computer. Newer chipsets generally include functions provided by two or more older chipsets. In some cases, older chipsets that required two or more physical chips can be replaced with a chipset on one chip.
The term is often used to refer to the core functionality of a motherboard.
iow, the chipset is a MAIN component of a motherboard..
many thanks to webopedia
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bistro
Member
Posts: 5177
From:Washington, DC
Registered: Jul 2000
posted 06-17-2001 07:51 PM
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Not much to add to the above---a lot of coverage there. Just a simple observation of the mobo example greengoose1 put in the first post. Notice it has a Primary IDE and a Secondary IDE connector AND two ATA/100 connectors. A lot of mobos out there on the market have 2x IDE connectors, or one IDE and one ATA---on those, you are limited to 4 IDE devices (hard drives, CD-ROMs, etc.); 2 devices on each cable that is--any more devices and you will have to get a controller card. But on the mobo in greengoose's example, you can have 8 IDE devices (or just 4 with each on their own channel--a plus). Something you may want to consider when hunting around. We now return you to the regularly scheduled program....
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Shinma
Member
Posts: 399
From:
Registered: Jul 2000
posted 06-17-2001 08:02 PM
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Regarding bistro's post.
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Cheers.
[This message has been edited by Shinma (edited 06-17-2001).]
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DrMDJ
Member
Posts: 2102
From:NJ, USA
Registered: Apr 2000
posted 06-17-2001 08:14 PM
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Na Na! Found ya!
Don't have long here (nor do I have much energy tonight), but want to make a (small) comment or two...
While I can certainly see a reason to combine CPUs and Motherboards under one topic, I might have been inclined to treat them seperately. There can be a lot of issues, a lot to talk about on each. It might get very disjointed, confused.
Also (this is not directed at GlynBartlett's post, it just made me think of it.), it might eat up a lot a space, might make following things difficult, might lead to long sidetracks, might cause certain concepts and considerations to get lost/forgotten if time is spent evaluating particular motherboards in any detail. While some information may/will in fact be gotten from the responses, might it not be best if we keep things in more non-specific terms? The idea being that it's not about this board vs. that, or what "a" particular board is or isn't. Rather what makes for a good board, what features are important, what things on a board are, etc. I'm not saying that people should not ask a specific question necessarily about a given board. I'm just afraid that if the thread turns in to a series of evaluations for people or of specific boards that it will be a problem. In fact, in general I would recommend we stay away from specific evaluations regarding any make/brand component. It's fine to use something to demonstrate something, as an example. But beyond that.... I just think the most will be gotten from these threads if the general concepts, information, considerations stay the main focus, consume the bulk of the dialog.
Just one person's opinion.
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Bookmark your post to make it easier to find.
And remember, please post back whether the problem is resolved or not.
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jtdoom
Member
Posts: 2982
From:Eeklo, East-Flanders, Belgium
Registered: Oct 2000
posted 06-17-2001 08:53 PM
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DECIDERATA
I know, its a strange word.
what do you want to do with your new puter?
do you have kids?
is it for bussiness /home bizz /small bizz
or even show bizz
for instance;
you may not have a flatbed, but you have heard about the things you can do with one
and intend getting one...
it's going to be one of your deciderata
you may want it for OCR, or photo editing
once you have one, you gonna use it
and your machine is going to have to be able to cope lest it robs all pleasure out of it
same for
video editing...
sound editing
the PC core strength are the motherboard and CPU, and of course, a CPU needs memory.
the type of motherboard will affect your options in the type of memory and CPU
(or vice versa)
the capabilities of the motherboard will also play its role in graphics handling.
eg; integrated videocard
good enough for basic bizz, but lame for gamers
the motherboard may have full AGPx4 support
it may have less.
gamers (not only kids...) will usually know what meets their NEEDS after they wore out their second machine
Hehehe, it seems they'll NEVER get what they WANT? The newest game will always require more umphh
========
you know, I have a 600EB, and it's overkill.
most of the time, that is.
when I fire up the scanner, and do some rendering, I am GLAD I have it with 256 SDRAM to support its needs.
you should also be told that the more cards your PC holds, the more it has to divide its "attention" over them.
To me, its always been like that.
When a machine is replaced, the newest cards are removed, and I do a clean setup with just the things I want to pass along.
Jeesh, each and every time I am surprised at the difference it makes when fewer cards are occupying the slots.
consider that too
it's one of your deciderata
------------------
Isn't There Always "something entirely different" we'll need to reconsider?
Kind regards, Jaak.
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greengoose1
Member
Posts: 2102
From:graham, tx, us
Registered: Oct 2000
posted 06-17-2001 10:26 PM
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I have just read the posts and an awesome amount of information has been given for the reader to digest. Note: What I do on the longer posts or for that matter any post that has what I need is to copy and paste it into a word document and file it in the appropriate file in My Documents.
And for those of you just starting out on the "Computer Adventure", I should warn you that there is no lack of information concerning computers. We but scratch the surface in these threads. We are trying to give you what you need as each of us sees it. This then results in varying lengths of posts.
When we started it was with the idea of real time flexibitity to be able to help anyone. We try to apply the "KISS" principle as much as possible.
Now here's where you the reader comes in. Should you not understand something for whatever reason do jump in and ask a question. Don't think that your question is unimportant. The answer to your question may help someone else also.
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T-bolt
Member
Posts: 45
From:Phoenix, Arizona, United States
Registered: May 2001
posted 06-17-2001 11:59 PM
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Ok, so I'm beginning to outline the items in regards to my first build, and this is what i have compiled so far. Would appreciate any input regarding the compatilibity of these components and if am on the right track. I use the computer for a wide rage of things, and although do not need anything monsterous, do not want to be disappointed, and especially want to be able to upgrade later if necessary. appreciate any input.
Case Antec SX1030B (black) File Server
CPU K7 AMD Athlon 3D NOW! 900Mhz T- Bird [Skt-A OEM]
Mobo ATX SOCKET A DURON/ATHCON-5PCI
1AGP ATA/100 DDR
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Shinma
Member
Posts: 399
From:
Registered: Jul 2000
posted 06-18-2001 12:36 AM
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You're on the right track so far.
------------------
Cheers.
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kallikru
Member
Posts: 605
From https://discussions.virtualdr.com/enmark
Registered: Dec 99
posted 06-18-2001 03:19 AM
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T-bird,
OEM-cpu means you have to get a seperate cooler for the beast. Make sure it provides ample cooling for at least 900 MHz, possibly more, without being too noisy (< 30-35 db). And you'll probably need some thermal paste too, in case this is not included with the cooler.
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Karl, Denmark
---------
"..and may The Force be with you too..."
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greengoose1
Member
Posts: 2102
From:graham, tx, us
Registered: Oct 2000
posted 06-18-2001 06:44 AM
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Good Morning All,
JTDoom, Deciderata, that one threw me for a few minutes.
DrMDJ, It is good to remind ourselves that our original purpose is to help people and to keep these threads as reader friendly as possible. And we will "wander a bit" sometimes due to many different people posting. This is the nature of the what we are doing. All we have to do is guide ouselves as we have been doing.
T-bolt, You are starting to get a good handle on things looks like. "That" is a good looking case.
Glyn, Have we been answering so you understand okay? If not keep asking - don't let it go.
And throwing another question in. Will the mobo come with all the parts or hardware a person will need to install it into the case?
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kallikru
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Posts: 605
From https://discussions.virtualdr.com/enmark
Registered: Dec 99
posted 06-18-2001 07:46 AM
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Besides hosting the CPU slot and slots for RAM and PCI/ISA expansion cards, the ATX motherboard has an imbedded IDE controller for up to 2 x 2 drives (some boards have an additional ATA 66/100 contr. for a total of 4 x 2 drives - some even with RAID = Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks). This keeps PCI slots free for other cards. You'll also find a diskette drive controller bulid into the ATX board.
Some boards have builtin sound- and/or graphic- cards (or modem or network card), which will save additional PCI/AGP slots, but doesn't mean you cannot use another sound/graphics card if you like - usually these buĂ*ltin devices may be disabled in the bios.
More expensive boards may host a socalled SCSI controller for connecting SCSI devices (HD, CD, camera, ect.).
Also present in the motherboard are all the "system devices" you can see in Windows' device manager (CMOS clock, PCI steering ect.).
Finally, the ATX board contains a standard set of ports: Parallel port (printer, scanner ect.), serial port(s) (external modem ect.), USB (Universal Serial Bus to which a host of devices may be connected) and PS/2 ports for mouse and keyboard).
------------------
Karl, Denmark
---------
"..and may The Force be with you too..."
[This message has been edited by kallikru (edited 06-18-2001).]
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bistro
Member
Posts: 5177
From:Washington, DC
Registered: Jul 2000
posted 06-18-2001 09:31 AM
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by greengoose1:
And throwing another question in. Will the mobo come with all the parts or hardware a person will need to install it into the case?
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Depends on the vendor. Concientious vendors will include a couple of IDE cables and the mobo standoffs (mounting screws). Some don't.
If you don't already have a passel full of standoffs (both plastic and metal), it would be a good idea to order extras if the mobo vendor makes no mention of them. (What type of standoffs depends on the case and how they designed the motherboard tray). A lot of case manufacturers will also include the proper standoffs with the case. Those standoffs are not expensive, and extras may come in real handy if one should get misplaced. (Some mobos/cases come with the exact amount you need and no more). Other than that, there aren't any more "parts" that come with a mobo; save the jumpers that are already on it. Have seen a couple that came with an I/O plate (metal plate where your parallel, serial ports ,etc. sit)--very nice of them to include one; but not a common practice.
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greengoose1
Member
Posts: 2102
From:graham, tx, us
Registered: Oct 2000
posted 06-18-2001 10:21 AM
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That takes care of the hardware part. Now many people will buy there CPU already mounted on the Mobo, but for those that buy separately, how is a CPU mounted on a Mobo. Do you need anything besides tools to accomplish this? What do we have to be careful of as we do this?
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bistro
Member
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From:Washington, DC
Registered: Jul 2000
posted 06-18-2001 10:51 AM
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There's nothing to mounting a CPU onto a mobo that a good hammer and chisel can't take care of.....
Not really. Socket mobos come with a ZIF socket (Zero Insertion Force) that the CPU rests on. It's a matter of lifting a lever beside the socket, matching the CPU pin array/pattern to the socket pattern (holes), lowering the CPU down until it's flush with the socket(slowly, carefully as to not bend the pins), then lowering the lever to secure the CPU. No tools required.
Slot mobos (Intel Pentium SECC CPUs) do not have a ZIF socket, but a slot similar to the AGP slot. (SECC: Single Edge Contact Connector). The CPU is contained in a casing that slides into the slot perpendicular to the mobo--much like a video/sound card. Fits into the slot and is locked down by a frame on the sides. Again, no tools required; just go slow and careful; don't force it. SECCs are being phased out. Slot One mobos/SECC Pentiums will still be available for a while while supplies last, but you'll see them slowly disappear from the market.
Some folks get stuck with a slot mobo, but a regular CPU chip. In that case, one can use a "slotket"--a card that has a ZIF socket on it. CPU is placed on the card's ZIF socket, then the whole card assembly slides in to the mobo processor slot. Jumpers on the card set the voltage, CPU type etc.. No tools required.
Just remember: make sure you've discharge any static on your person by touching the case chassis before handling any part; especially a CPU chip.
That's about the simplest I can put it. (KISS principle).
Which leads me to this: In full agreement with DrMDJ. Gotta keep this as general as possible. And watch the tech terms; try to explain in general terms if at all possible and/or explain what the term means. If a specific mobo is going to be named, be sure to include the manufacturer's name with it. A "GAG876BY" doesn't mean anything to most people, but an ASUS GAG876BY will at least give the reader a clue as to where to look it up if interested. Remember that the readers here range from novice to tech. (You techs just be patient---this is good review for you anyway..... ).
[This message has been edited by bistro (edited 06-18-2001).]
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greengoose1
Member
Posts: 2102
From:graham, tx, us
Registered: Oct 2000
posted 06-18-2001 12:08 PM
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Bistro, That was subtle.
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bistro
Member
Posts: 5177
From:Washington, DC
Registered: Jul 2000
posted 06-18-2001 12:19 PM
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Better than saying "Get your *&^%$# act together! What do ya' think we are????!!!??? Nuclear physicists???!!???".
I speak for the masses.... Yea, verily...
[This message has been edited by bistro (edited 06-18-2001).]
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greengoose1
Member
Posts: 2102
From:graham, tx, us
Registered: Oct 2000
posted 06-18-2001 01:00 PM
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I love it. I don't care what the queen of Hearts said ......
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Didn't want to read all the above, so I think I'll wait for the TV mini-series to come out.....
Er....what was the question? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
ehhh heh ! Well, well, well, wouldja notice the last comment before all the commotion. Whatcha get tattling on me goose!
See what happens ? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
AHHH, https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ a claim jumper.
------------------
SMILE
and post back
[ Book mark this post to find it again]
glynbartlett
I have cleaned it up for you, but cannot mail you the cleaned up txt
please mail me???????????
EDIT>>
I went over it and posted the cleaned up txt at orginal thread.
please (someone) do us a FAVOR and replace the one here with the cleaned up TXT?
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Kind regards, Jaak.
[This message has been edited by jtdoom (edited 06-21-2001).]
OK...this is getting really funky.
The original thread just popped up at
the top for no good reason. Can't reply
to it (which is probably a good thing).
Just a guess, but it looks like someone is trying to clean out the archives.....makes
the forum go funky for a while.
Wow. pretty much of a grand slam.
1. Thanks Gyln and JTDoom for your efforts. We got all the important info back. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
2. Remember what Nick Grana says "Save, save,
and save - and we got it.
3. Whaddayamean miniseries, with the efforts demonstrated it will be an Epic. (VirDr reaches every movie screen, then TV screens and out grosses "The Mummy")
4. Got the Queen of Hearts out too.
5. You can "Save" the thread and edit it, get it back into some semblance order and have "stuff on Mobos.
6. I for one will save each days posts once a day from now on. Then after the thread is closed delete all but the last one. Need one more volunteer so we're backed up in two separate places. We can react even more quickly this way than we did the first time. Might never happen again........, but you never know.
7. We even have DrMDJ's NA NA. Yes an Epic would be best. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
8. Did we post sites like "Price Watch" etc. where a reader could research pricing, specs, etc?
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Ok, I'll fess up. It was me. I cant give the threads back cause I threw them away. Go ahead and hang me I deserve it.......LOL
Might as well take the blame, no one else will...hehe
QOH beat you to it.
------------------
SMILE
and post back
[ Book mark this post to find it again]
[This message has been edited by Train (edited 06-20-2001).]
THAT'S IT!!! It's official! Dodge has been
duly appointed (by his own confession) to
be The Official Scapegoat! Congratulations!
**Man...I'll be glad when this thread's
over...getting tired of scrolling from
side to side.....* https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
Mobos (motherboards) with onboard items.
Good? Bad? Why? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
Tyan Thunder K7
http://www.tyan.com/products/assets/images/Th_K7.gif
Amptron PIII-3754LMR
http://www.amptron.com/Images/m754lmr.jpg
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Cheers.
[This message has been edited by Shinma (edited 06-20-2001).]
1; suspend to RAMQuote:
GlynBartlett Posted 06-18-2001 03:24 PM
Questions not answered so far are what do the following mean:
1) Suspend-To-RAM (STR)?;
2) Wake-On-LAN (WOL)?;
3) USB KB/MS Wake up from S3?
4) Poly fuse for keyboard over-current protection?
Also a new one:
5) My current mouse and keyboard do not have PS/2 plugs (they are that old!) - are there connections for them on these new MOB's with PS/2 plugs or do I have to replace them?
Note the numbering even though I have never been to Kansas.
Regards,
Glyn
aka instant ON
well, imho, it's a dangerous thing.
I even feel that suspend to disk or suspend to file is not advisable.
the slightest mishap, and whatever you was working on is footsie
RAM is volatile, so if power goes OFF, footsie, dada. oops.
So, when you leave your puter on when you go out for a coffee break, first SAVE whatever you are working on.
With suspend to disk or file, I feel there is a higher risk of loss. Many of you guys may remember the lapper saga.
The damage on that drive (and coincidentally, an at least two more I know of) occured in the area where The phdisk util had made the special suspend partition.
iow, some part of that disk got unusable because of this.
Next thing to consider about suspend to disk (a dedicated special partition) is that you had better really think about what happens when you add RAM...
Yeah, the memory dump don't have enough space to dump onto...
To again make it work, one has to redo the outlay of the drive... with possible total data loss ...
Not my fave thing, see.
Suspend to file.
Well, maybe that's better.
But, I would want imput from people actually using this, because I still feel it ain't a healthy thing to do.
All it does is save temporary data to a memory dump file, and if the tool fails, how are you gonna recover the stuff in the file?
Its MY opinion you should stay away from USING these in DESKTOP computers.
And Save your work before you leave the PC.
2; wake on LAN
will work when a NIC has the connector to this header, and a networked puter wants to access your drives while the PC is in suspend/doze mode. http://www.aopen.com/tech/techinside/wol.htm http://www.asus.com.tw/products/techref/Wol/wol.html
as always, one finds more "in depth" articles at intel https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ http://www.intel.com/network/technol...ake_on_lan.htm
and this one ain't bad either... http://gsd.di.uminho.pt/jpo/software...i-howto-2.html
3;
now, ACPI has been around for a while...
wake on S3
slideshow http://www.teleport.com/~acpi/papers...ios/sld017.htm
another good article http://www.microsoft.com/hwdev/desinit/wakeup.htm
and http://www.eetasia.com/ART_8800062889_499481,499484.HTM
4; anyone???
5; you can get an adaptor cable for your old trusted keyboard.
I think you should replace the mouse as that particular adaptor may cost as much as a mouse
------------------
Isn't There Always "something entirely different" we'll need to reconsider?
Kind regards, Jaak.