Weekly Subject - 05 - Cases and Power Supplies

Hi
its been said before
stay away from slim lines
I mean, stay away from slimline desktop cases

DEAD giveaway for problem cases are horizontal slot cutouts in a desktop
that's slimline for you
five inches or so high, a risercard in one slot and problems galore.

full size desktops are okay for many
imho, midi towers are better
(I wonder if anyone ever noticed that midi towers and full desktops can be built round the same chassis. I seen some that could be used as desktop OR tower. The bays could be mounted both ways. HONEST. )

my Aopen full tower is kinda noisy (Bfr 4.950 at the time)
the midi Aopen I later built is silent in comparison. (Bfr 3.050 at the time)
I have not yet looked for a source for Inwin over here (belgium).
a retailer worth his salt, can tell you the difference between models in the same range, and you will find the silent ones cost a few bucks more. Believe me, they are WORTH it.

budget and quality o/t case
a cheap tower is found for equivalent of around US $ 35 (around Bfr 1.800)
(I can get a dirt cheap but really crappy midi tower for as little as Bfr 1.395. You should notice the price difference, and consider that the Aopen is not yet high end)

when I have to build one at lowest possible cost for friends, I tell them the disadvantages. If they tell me to go cheap, I go cheap. (but seldom DIRT crappy cheap)

What are the disadvantages of extremely cheap boxes?
they usu have only 250 Watts MAX load, of a nondescript PSU maker.
this in itself can cause instability in a system (hangs and unexpected reboots)
but, the box is also rather FLIMSY, and will flex or bend easily. The result of THAT will be easily dislodged cards, where cards may actually pop out of the slot.
another observation is that connectors no longer properly center in the cutouts.

15 dollars more can get you box with a 300W max PSU, with a sturdier build case.
these are still in the "budget range" but are okay in my book.
I also find they tend to have the standoffs and replacement backplate masks.

The cheaper cases have slot cutouts you have to "BREAK" out. These are not re-usable.
Others are secured by screws (better) or re-usable with a fastening hook.
When you buy at a "mom and pop" store as you guys so eloquently put it, you can ask for a few slot coverplates. They usually have them laying about.
Why do you want to do that?
well, suppose you break out a backplate and later find the card has to move from PCI slot 1 to PCI slot 2 for some reason.
you are left with a hole.
it can disturb or negatively affect proper air circulation.
so you want to cover the hole.

Oh, I meant to say this too...
When you have these re-usable coverplates, don't toss them away...

And guys, please KEEP ALL manuals and documentation.
Also READ the manuals and warranty cards and act appropriately.

edit>
please remember I had to use EQUIVALENTS due to exchange rates.
the US Dollar is pretty expensive nowadays

a top QUALITY power supply can cost more than a good enough standard ATX case which would be including a PSU.
a good ATX case fits most people's needs.

btw, have I told you to stay away from slimmed lines? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

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there's noise and noise.
we've been talking decibel...
WHAT ABOUT ELECTRICAL NOISE?

Kind regards, Jaak

[This message has been edited by jtdoom (edited 06-15-2001).]

Slimline Cases? Don't say it, it will give me Packard Hell nightmares. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Never owned one but worked on a few.

Interesting Read.

Troy

DrMD],
In one of you posts you say the color does not matter. You clearly have never dealt with my current wife. For some silly reason she thinks all the parts should have the same color pattern or at least match. So now I have to search for a new system for her that everything is dark transparent blue. Try finding that in printers and scanners at sale prices.

As as cases to stay away from, I saw a transparent day-glo green plastic covered case that is so ugly it would make a bullfrog puke.

https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ Opovet https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

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I know it is true because I read it on the internet from a VirtualDr link!!

Having a vision of a pile of riser cards burning furiously....and I'm smiling.

Good points above, jtdoom. Cheap is, cheap does. When budgeting for parts to build, it's an advantage to set aside a goodly amount for the case. I've seen too many folks skimp on them and ended up very, very disappointed. One in particular was dazzled by a color front panel---oh, it looked real pretty and fancy, but not only did he nearly slice a finger off on the the inside edges (it was very cramped in there and all the metal edges were extremely sharp), but the hard drive section was off by almost 1/4 inch! Had to bend the sides in to mount the drive. Very poor engineering. He ended up calling me to help because he had two fingers on one hand all bandaged up! https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
Just because it looks like Star Trek on the outside doesn't mean it's a good case.
IMHO, any case for less than 50 to 60 USD, then Buyer Beware. Yes, there ARE some decent cases for a little less; but you've gotta know what to look for (has already been covered here, I believe).

Good point. I used to work for UL Canada. The case or case materials have to be approved by UL or CSA(Canada). I doubt the transparent case is met by the safety standard.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Opovet:
As as cases to stay away from, I saw a transparent day-glo green plastic covered case that is so ugly it would make a bullfrog puke.

https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ Opovet https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

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Bistro,
thanks for reminding me
can you remember I said I used fine leather gloves?
yeah, these dirt cheap cases are a health hazard.
you get frustrated working in them because of the poor build, and you get cut too.

there's yet another type of cases, but these are for system adminitrators buying huge numbers of puters.
they want easy access and maintenance
they do not want their technicians spending an hour to swap a hard drive out
unlock, open up/roll-out, get bad part out out, plonk replacement in, shut/roll-in, lock
four minutes
(includes coffee)
iow, sysadmins want almost hot swap-able systems.

not our topic, tho.
not my field either.
hehehe, as if I have a field!
I am merely a hobbyist.

Now no one get the idea that just because a case has a fancy transparent front that it's a cheapy. Not true necessarily. It's just that you have to consider ALL the factors before buying (room to upgrade/add more devices, interior roomy and safe to work in, can add additional fans if desired, etc.). If I was in the market, and a particular case met those requirements AND had a cool looking exterior---hey, I'd go for it. Just make UTILITY a priority over appearance, IMHO.

It does pay to not skimp on the case. But one must shop around. Higher cost doesn't necessarily translate to better quality.

The gotcha with buying a case over the net is that you can get a good deal on the base price, but end up spending almost as much on the darn shipping (weight = cost).

Opovet,

LOL. Yea, a while back I built a system for someone. I primarily worked with the husband in reviewing and selecting the parts (wife said "I don't care, anything is fine"). The case ended up being a nice simple (but good quality) Antec. When it was all done and delivered the wife says "Oh, it's beige! I thought it would be one of this nice color cases I've seen." So to her, color was all that mattered.

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[This message has been edited by DrMDJ (edited 06-15-2001).]

Agreed Bistro. Utility = priority 1. Looks are lower on the list. Afterall, you're not getting a case to sleep with it (or at least don't tell anyone if you are).

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https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ Good point, DrMDJ. My wife really got ticked off one night when she rolled over to kiss me goodnight and she banged her face into the side panel...

*Shoot! Didn't mean for that to slip out...hate it when I do that!*


Jaak: You're a hobbyist? That's a surprise! I could have sworn you were a Presbyterian....

OK...OK...I'll shut up now and take my medications.... https://discussions.virtualdr.com/



[This message has been edited by bistro (edited 06-15-2001).]

Jaak you are a little more than just a Hobbiest. You are very well knowlegeable on PC's. Sure help alot of people....


As usual this thread Has alot of great information.

I have never posted in one of these weekly topics so I thought this would be a fine time to start here is my case of choice. http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=205-4260
I am running a pvk7 mainboard with a athlon Tbird 750 with 384 megs of pc100 sdram Hp cd burner and Raite dvd player with a Savage 4 32 mb agp video card...20 gig maxtor 7200 rpm drive this machine is the host for a 3 pc lan sharing @home cable via Windows Me ICS with no problems at all....I am using the 250 watt power supply....what improvements could I see if I upgraded to the 300 watt power supply that people rave on for athlons and p4 processors?

I have never posted in one of these weekly topics so I thought this would be a fine time to start here is my case of choice. http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=205-4260
I am running a pvk7 mainboard with a athlon Tbird 750 with 384 megs of pc100 sdram Hp cd burner and Raite dvd player with a Savage 4 32 mb agp video card...20 gig maxtor 7200 rpm drive this machine is the host for a 3 pc lan sharing @home cable via Windows Me ICS with no problems at all....I am using the 250 watt power supply....what improvements could I see if I upgraded to the 300 watt power supply that people rave on for athlons and p4 processors?

If the 250 watt PS you have now is supply the power needed now, then there is no gain to moving up. Now it may be that if you added a few more or different components you would overtax that PS. In that case...

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A 250w power supply (ps) will do fine for most average mid-tower systems, but a 300w offers a little better assurance of power stability/resource; especially for future upgrades/additions. A few folks will keep adding devices/cards/fans, but forget to upgrade their ps. End up like plugging too many appliances into one outlet. May hold for a while, but sometime it's gonna blow. Also brings up a good point: While an Athlon chip will run with a regular power supply OK, it's better to get an "AMD-approved" power supply---can handle the power requirements of that chip a little better--can go HERE, type in the required info and get a list of sites to check.

(Am I getting senile or what? (Don't answer that...)--typing away/editing and I just now noticed your post above, DrMDJ---doh!)

[This message has been edited by bistro (edited 06-15-2001).]

I thought I'd post these two examples to illustrate some things that have been mentioned.

http://members.aol.com/drmdj/badc1.jpg http://members.aol.com/drmdj/goodc1.jpg

Case 1 (on the left) shows where the power supply is turned on its side. Looking around the back of this case you can see how there really isn't any place to put another fan. I'm also not sure that big vent area is such a good thing. It is pretty big and situated right in line with where a fan in the front of the case would sit. I could see air blowing right straight out the back of the case. It should probably be smaller (in my opinion), maybe if it only consisted of the top half of what's there now... And note all the metal grillwork over the power supply fan opening. It creates quite a restriction as it actually covers a lot of the opening. Also note the particular style of I/O plate here.

Case 2 (on the right) is pretty much the same size as case 1. With the PS "situated normally" there is room for an extra fan opening. Also note the grill on the PS fan opening. It allows for much better airflow. Now the grillwork over the area where another fan might be put is another story. Once again, this is bad. Much of the area is actually covered in metal. I would cut this out if it were me. As for the I/O plate, note how it is different than in case one. Ya wouldn't be putting the same motherboards in these two cases. But, on both cases the I/O plate is not fixed (part of case), it could be removed and replaced with another one.

Just a few examples of things...

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[This message has been edited by DrMDJ (edited 06-15-2001).]

I've been doing my best to folow along but came in late in the game, as I see this is weekly subject #5. How do I find 1-4. I tried to do a search for weekly subject and doesn't come up with anything. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Never mind, duh, I found them... sorry to have deviated from the subject at hand.

(4) http://discussions.virtualdr.com/For...ML/003273.html

(3) http://discussions.virtualdr.com/For...ML/003192.html

(2) http://discussions.virtualdr.com/For...ML/003120.html

(1) http://discussions.virtualdr.com/For...ML/003054.html

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Karl, Denmark
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"..and may The Force be with you too..."

Thanks everybody for the response, have added them to my favorites for future reference..

"The Bolt"

"Thunderbolts Rock"

Hi T-bolt, Each of the weekly threads can stand by itself. As I recall we started with;

1. Surge protection.

2. Safety

3. Cooling

4. Considerations

and now

5. Cases and Power Supplies

Glad you dropped in. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

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Quote:

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Originally posted by greengoose1:
Ok, break's over. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ Next question. What is your favorite case and why?

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Antec SX1030B, due to:

Chassis strength.
Plenty of bays for drives.
Good interior case layout design to work in.
Cooling, ventilation layout.
Clip on case fans.
Location of case fans plus one for HDD.
No sharp edges.
Method used to access interior of case.
Quality of power supply provided.
Capability of changing/replacing I/O plate(s)...


http://store4.yimg.com/I/upsource_1639_19706671

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Cheers.

[This message has been edited by Shinma (edited 06-16-2001).]

Question GG1. Are the old/prior threads going to be locked or left open? Should they be?

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Good Morning All,

Shinma, Thanks for sharing your favorite case with us.

DrMDJ, I usually just put in the comment that the thread is closing when we start a new one. Thanks for bringing that up.Will keep an index listed at the beginning of each thread for reference by topic that a person can click on. I took a listing of the Operarion Delta Threads and put them in a folder for reference. Hard to work with in their present form but JTDoom is reviewing them. These Weekly Threads are much easier to work with. Be back in a while. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

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shinma
Here is a link With pictures of your case
Can not tell if that top shelf is solid or two rails. Would hate to have to butcher it.

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How about the rest of you lurking out there. What is your favorite case? Surely there's some more good ones out there. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

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No particular "favorite", but when it comes to a balance of durability, engineering and price, I usually look to InWin or Antec first.

Next case: Antec SX1240 Full Tower

http://store4.yimg.com/I/upsource_1639_19571228

Why? Well engineered, smooth interior edges, have plans for 5 of the 6 bays, 2x 3.5 bays for floppy and ZIP drive (don't want to fill up a large bay with the ZIP), drop-down bay for 4 hard drives with room still to install a 120mm intake fan. It's poifect for what I have in mind.


Uh...suggestion: This thread is getting kinda long in the tooth https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ Maybe time to move this subject to a new thread, greengoose? Also suggest that if folks are gonna post their "favorite" with a pic; keep the pic somewhat small (no 8x10 glossies please). Might also want to include WHY it's a favorite.



[This message has been edited by bistro (edited 06-16-2001).]

greengoose1: Afternoon. Perhaps it will help others who are not familiar with computer cases for a reference of some kind or another. At the very least, having to use band-aids. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
Train: Hi there. That happens to be a pair of formed rails, one on each side of the case. It's about at the level of the bottom of the third drive. So no heat build up. That pair really helps out in the structural integrity, in case someone is sitting on your case. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/


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Cheers.

Shinma
Some one sits on my computer will kiss a 24 pound tack hammer. Don't think I am lonesome there. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
Thanks for the rail bit. The picture left much to be desired.
Seems more case manufactors are getting on the band wagon. About time! One gets tired of bleeding.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Train:
shinma
Here is a link ...Can not tell if that top shelf is solid or two rails. Would hate to have to butcher it.

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Perhaps this will assist. Photo of Antec SX1030 (white, not black) interior with PS removed:

http://www.hardwareoc.com/antec1030/drives%20in_s.JPG

View of removable HDD bay cages, via a latch per cage.

https://discussions.virtualdr.com/im.../2001/06/3.jpg

This is closer match to the color of the case.

http://www.gamingin3d.com/reviews/antec/logo.gif

Hope they help. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

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Cheers.

Thanks. Thinking of cable routing. Like bistro, think ahead.
T-bird 1.3 . . . https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

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I really like that case Shinma, does it come in a red shag.


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http://www.helpfromtechs.com/

do I detect one-up-ism?
https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
they's all full towers?

frankly, when I bought my full tower, it was for a valid utility reason
at one point in its short life, I had to house five or six hard drives, a cdreader and a cdr/w, a zipdrive, and the obligatory floppydrive.
you need Looooooong IDE ribbons and loooong SCSI ribbons to do this, folks.

most folks do not need full towers
I do not recomend mini.
go for a well designed midi.
that Aopen line is a good budget line
I'm sure they are not the best, but they's not bad.
(and for those it matters for, they are AMD approved...)

The second box I have is an Aopen midi tower
(bought when I wanted to try raid)
plenty of space in there too!

some will say they are built like a tank...
yep, 1mm sheet steel and a nicely built frame makes them real sturdy.
all the doodahs come with them
Matter of fact, even the screws tell something about the build quality.
Once you worked with similar or better builds, you'll not want to use cheapskate cases again.

oh, I am at OD 12
plenty was said, with plenty good links.
I am bookmarking some, and have pasted bits and pieces to tips documents for later use.

I never would have thought to put sound insulation in a case, and now I consider it.
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Kind regards, Jaak

[This message has been edited by jtdoom (edited 06-16-2001).]

We have covered this subject pretty well and now it is time to move on into Motherboards and CPUs. This thread is now closed. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

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