Can two power supplies be fitted in ONE case? and HOW?

bistro
watch the shine. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ may have lead in it. Radiators you know. Still pretty country though.

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jaak
One other option is to get a slave case. Compaq makes one for SCSI components that has it's own power and holds 1 to 7 devices
I'm sure others have them available too.

dacomputers
Should have posted this here also.


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Didn't really read the info at pointed to by the second link I offered. The first one (the one copied and pasted in here by Train) was the main one I wanted Jaak to see. It will work.

I don't question why Jaak does or doesn't want to do things. Hell, 90% of the time I don't even understand what he's talkin' about.:} I'm sure he has is reasons here. Or maybe, like Bistro, he too had a beam drop on his head. Nonetheless, he asked a quation so... Everything's relative. This may seem like a dangerous and doomed venture. But the same could often be said the moment some people simply turn on their PCs. ;}

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Hi all

just got home from work.
nice imput, to say the least...
I am impressed.

now, in the distant past I new about basic requirements and how-to parallel two high powered WELDING transformers to get double capacity
-primo, they had to be identical, and should be checked for flaws/abberations before one dood it.
after them things were correctly coupled, such a WELDING transformer setup could be used to have an enourmous amperage for carbon-tip blast-cutting.

the better solution was still to get a really high power transformer.

I don't believe this was ever done on high-frequency convertors and DC convertors

seems I do remember one could couple "dynamo" powered DC. (where an AC motor is used to drive the dynamo)
--------- --------

anyway, I think I can see the danger in coupling a 300 ATX and 145W ATX supply. THANKS.

I also think it could be inadvisable to try a AT style PSU to power drives, in combination with ATX supply.
(hasn't been really answered yet)
I am not sure why.
but dont it have to share ground as well?
- - - - - -

haven't done the sums yet, but
BUT...
I just looked on the BIG case PSU.
+5V on the 300Watter says 30A
(that's an unbelievable 150W for peripherals)
and +12V says 11A
(that's an amazing 130 or so)

together with the 100W on +3.3V that number don't add up well either. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

+5Vsb = 2A = mobo when on stand by power
-12V = 0.3A = ???

+3.3V = 30A = 100W
+ 12V = 11A = 132W
+ 5 V = 30A = 150W

it also says, combined load on
+3.3 and +5V is max 150Watt
and that's where the overload problem lies, isn't it?

when I searched specs for the A-open powersupplies I saw mention of peak loads, and sustained loads.
(and how long they're supposed to sustain certain loads)

anyone would normally "suppose" these statements found on PSU mean max sustained.
(REMEMBER, that is not always true, you REALLY need the REAL specs on the type/model of PSU... and please try find out when they don't make sense... I am still doing some figuring/figuring out...)

anyhow,
athlon, CPU, CPU fan, PCI cards, mobo itself.
that ain't got me left all that much on +5V...
I think I have good reason to be concerned.
------------------------
you wanna know how I found out?
I connected a few things until the time I could not properly get out of stand-by

which explains why I don't have everything hooked up all the time. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
------------------------
I figure THIS one will need edits...

[This message has been edited by jtdoom (edited 08-18-2001).]

hehe, I told you I would need edits in this post



[This message has been edited by jtdoom (edited 08-20-2001).]

DANGit

only 1A on +5sb...
that was the ONLY flaw...

Quote:

---

Awwwwwwwwww forget all that and pick yourself up one of these, jt..... https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

(Throw in a few Y-extenders and you'll be cookin')

---

yep, I begin to think the idea was not all too bright.
That 3.3V issue worries me.

the alternatives have been mentioned.
a second drive only case (or even raid cases, scsi raid case with direct connect)
(I ain't going for it)

a second puter in networked system
(most practical)
(already have TWO displays, and both of them have built in capability to switch between machines. IOW, one hooks up TWO machines to ONE display. Yeah, that's a cool thing to have...)

for what its worth, I learned.

Train said stuff about getting FULLY parallel.

thus, as I read the posts he made, with exact matching PSU, and full parallel, it might still be done?

even when I am no longer going to be gungho to do this, it's still a viable option then?

this IS the bestestester forum

jaak
Seems you may want to look at a 600W ps.
I did what I could here.

= USB scanner (luckily it has a power supply, so it isn't maxing out the port)
= USB radio

+ USB signal future USB printer/digital device.
+ USB webcam (for the hell of it, to fill four ports...)

= parallel laser

25W= SCSI card,
24W= SCSI hard drive,
20W= SCSI burner,
12W+ SCSI CDROM (currently not connected)

35W+ hotrod RAIDcard [If memory serves me right]
60W+ four 7200rpm IDE drives on hotrod (future raided total of four) [Max at 15W each]

25W= one ATAPI DVD 10 - 25W
22W= two IDE data disks on mobo controller [ Assuming 2 5200RPM harddisk]
+ one zipdrive (currently not connected)
5W= one floppydrive
15W= (one free connector for data transferrals, iow, I use this to connect hard disks to) [ 7200RPM figure used]

6W= three case fans
= athlon 1133 @ 266FSB
= the mobo
= CPU cooler
5W= soundcard
35W= some rather souped up AGP card with cooler
5W= NIC
5W+ NIC-2
= fax/voice-modem
50W= three sticks of SDRAM (640 total)

Using bistro's chart I find 350W and that is not everything as you can see above.
USB info:
High power devices are devices that draw more than 100mA from the USB power line, low power devices are ones that draw 100mA or less. High power devices are typically bus-powered cameras, bus powered hubs. Low-power devices are typically mice, keyboards, joysticks, and any devices that come with their own power supply (also known as self powered devices).
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[This message has been edited by Train (edited 08-18-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Train (edited 08-18-2001).]

TRAIN,
thanks

>>edit>> rereading this, I made the total... STILL overloaded as is... GRRRR<<

currently, all IDE hard drives I use in my system(s) are in the 7200rpm diamondmax 60 series.

someone said $$ about SCSI
they are older SCSI, 50 pins, wide, (no double wide, 20MB/s max)
these SCSI are "legacy" but I am gonny use them until they wear out (was/is very useful stuff.)

I actually have FOUR 30 GB and three 40GB, currently spread over two MAIN machines.)
(have two more machines)
the woyk-hoss test-bed sees an assortiment of older drives come and go (data transfers/data rescue/data burn) and I use a cradle to do this.
The second "data rescue machine" ain't connected to the net, and has a swapper bay as well.

so, you see what I meant by the "free" connector?
It is hooked up to a ata 33 "swapper" bay, and since I OFTEN hook up drives in it, I don't consider it as unused
(w/i why I only get inside to connect the zip whe I really need it).

havent yet invested in ata 100 swapper bays.
(but should, them bays result in less wear)
=============

I really wanted to have more usable drives in this one here, but I don't think I'll risk it...

yeah, GG1, the athlon is not a super, but a rather capacious computer as is.
its mobo is gonna be replaced soon
(the EPOX arrived, and the abit was seen/diagnosed to have a voltage regulator flaw)

the old piii has only 150 gig in it at the moment. (the old IWiLL woykhoss moved into a 250Watt case)

(Not all PS-Units do, but at least those values put on the PSU in A-open cases seem to mean sustained load...)
--------

any good 600W PSU with at least 2A on +5sb one knows of?

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Kind regards, Jaak

[This message has been edited by jtdoom (edited 08-18-2001).]

[This message has been edited by jtdoom (edited 08-20-2001).]

Redundant ATX Power Supply , They make them things commercially.
http://home.luna.nl/~stepwise/M-2001.html


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[This message has been edited by Train (edited 08-18-2001).]

CNN LIVE: BREAKING NEWS.....

The largest power outage in Belgium's history occurred early this morning; causing a complete breakdown of society there. Reports are flooding in of major accidents and looting. It is not known at this time how this huge blackout could have happened, but sources tell CNN that it seemed to have started in the town of Eeklo in East Flanders and spread rapidly out from there.
Belgium's Chief Minister of Emergency Services had this to say: "We're really not sure how this catastrophe could have happened---we really weren't prepared for this. Last time I saw something like this was when some bozo in Brussels welded two PC power supplies together. Took out half the city when he powered up...."

its always sources...
who's the tattletale I ask...

in this particular instance, I welcom protection of sources.


aha, more options.
redundant PSU's...
I could maybe have enough when I get enermax
or something from powercooling...

but, the full tower I have cost about us$ 110
(inclusive 300W PSU)
(slight mod, I have a bottom mounted bay in there)
their midis have 250W and run silent (around $ 70).

a 450Watt and 600 watt PSU may cost a hell of a lot more... Last I looked at was 450W from powercooling.
http://www.pcpowercooling.com/prices/index.htm

WOW, 600W
Thanks, seems my choice has been made.
the difference pays for a good mobo.
(and then some...)

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it's only FREE advice!

Kind regards, Jaak

VDR SEARCH

Hi, this topic ain't dead yet...

at least two questions remained unanswered.

what type of load should one put on the 3.3V if one went full parallel with same models ATX?

what about using AT plus ATX, does it share ground?
- - - - -

it aint all about watts.
I had a better look at power supply Bistro pointed to.
their stabilisation may be a LOT better
over voltage protect?
just look at the range the power supply voltage regulator has...
no wonder they are somewhat pricey...

the one in the big tower is this one http://english.aopen.com.tw/products...0-60bt(PF).htm

when I made some sums, it just seems the ATHLON requires so much power it seriously limits output on +5V for peripherals.
If I want to use as many hard disks as I once did, it looks I am going to be forced to again use the much less powerhungry Piii-600EB...
600EB=roughly 16W compared to about 45W for the athlon...
that's three hard drives difference... during read write on all three..
7W idle, 11W in use per drive (roughly 30 peak at power up)

cut down to 512RAM, frees another ten watt.
yet another drive at idle...

hmmm, I gottta do some more figuring.
they once told me to never add apples and pears, but this math is about
$$$, Watts and innards-space

yup, they's gonna be some A-rythm-antics https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

------------------
it's only FREE advice!

Kind regards, Jaak

VDR SEARCH

Now look at those capacitors, looks more like a 3 phase motor startup controller for a single phase line than a ps. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ The $$$$ for it though. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Been thinking maybe you may be wanting to set yourself up a scsi server and net them together. Cheaper? Just a idea. 600Watts ps are probably server stuff, special order at that.


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All verrry interrresting jt, are you also going to install an air conditioner?LOL https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

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Live like you'll die tomorrow - learn like you'll live forever.
_Junker

Hi Junker

No,
would it help?

far as I can tell, I do need approx 150 watt I don't have

A jonker was gentry.
derivative of jong (means young / as in offspring)



------------------
it's only FREE advice!

Kind regards, Jaak

VDR SEARCH

hi all

let's try do some rheumy antics
Hi
main concern is still the combined load on 3.3 and +5V
(on which I have 150 watt)
the configuration changed since the athlon has been put in a new motherboard, with DDR and RAID on board....

*3.3/5V & 12V peripherals
= 6 Watt- 14 Watt- scsi plexwriter (values on drive)
= 4 Watt- 08 Watt- scsi harddisk 6.4GB (values on drive)
= 2 Watt- - - - -- floppy drive (no info on 12V, so why does it have 12V??)
= 3.5 W - 08 Watt- REMOVABLE BAY
= 3 Watt- 07 Watt- 40 giga diamondmax during use
= 3 Watt- 07 Watt- 40 giga diamondmax during use
+ 3 Watt- 07 Watt- 40 giga diamondmax during use
+ 3 Watt- 07 Watt- 40 giga diamondmax during use
= 3 Watt- 07 Watt- 30 giga diamondmax during use (source maxtor.com)
- - - - - 02 Watt- a typical fan has less than that
= 4 Watt- 10 Watt- 16X DVD normal (12v=16 Watt peak load)ACER source[/b]


note; 35 Watt per hard drive PEAK on 12V during spin-up
______________________________________________________________

drawing power off motherboard
-- 3.3V -- 5 V - - 12 V - - device ON motherboard
-- total 47 Watt---??----- Athlon 1133 load (some of them early buggers use up to 70W...)
-- total 30 Watt---??----- motherboard (guestimate, no values found, EPOX 8K7a+)
-- total 07 Watt- 04 Watt- ati Xpert 2000
-- total 12 Watt---------- guestimate on old scsi 2940AU PCI
-- total 20 Watt---------- 10W per 128MB (wouldn't DDR use less? Currently 256 DDR)
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- got a raid/DDR board so I don't need the hotrod in there.
-- total 15 Watt -- -- -- - two NIC and modem
+ playing with the idea to put the hauppage TV primio card in it...

(sound on board)

for hard drives, I took the higher requirement during read write, because I figure that when it does that, it isn't doing a seek. would that be correct?
-seek requires a bit less than read/write-
maxtor source
excerpt = maxtor POWER REQUIREMENTS (Average)

Mode---------+12VDC+-10% - +5VDC +-5% -Power
----------------------------------------------
Spin-up (peak) 2950 mA - - - 430 mA - -41.2 w
Seek - - - - - -550 mA - - - 510 mA - - 9.5 W
Read/Write - - -600 mA - - - 550 mA - -10.0 W
Idle- - - - - - 350 mA - - - 500 mA - - 6.7 W
Standby - - - - -30 mA - - - 150 mA - - 1.2 W

this looks much LESS bleak on the combined maximum load for 3.3V and 5V than it did before, does it not?

(seems I would be only about 25W short on 3.3/5V under normal operation after I add the stuff I want to.)
and have room left on 12V under normal use
(about 80W used)

but what a huge 12V peak-load at spinup...
over 260W PEAK

------------------

+ zero (SCSI CDROM. Currently in use in other machine. It can stay in there...)
+ TWO 7200rpm IDE drives on highpoint (future total of four)
https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ HMMMMM, seems I had better get me larger drives...
= drivecoolers (on 12V)
+ 20 W second stick DDR RAM (currently 256 in one stick)

-------------------
it's only FREE advice!

Kind regards, Jaak


[This message has been edited by jtdoom (edited 08-21-2001).]