Weekly Subject - 06B- Motherboards & CPUs

Good Morning All, Was almost afraid to look this morning, but as always curiosity got the best of me. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Glyn, said he would try and repost what he has on the missing posts.

I really hate to lose my Train of thought when something like this happens. And for those of you reading and wondering what happened. We lost a couple dozen posts over the weekend. The problem is this is the heart of the computer we're talking about.

We seem to be somewhat out of sync as a result. But as you can see Bistro is giving a mighty effort to get us back on track. Which track? Better check with Train. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ (That's really awful)LOL

Again, lets review something. On the Mobos illustrated, what part of it heats up and needs cooling? And why?


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Morning - yes, it seems the thieves stayed back in the night this time...

Oh well, heat again - CPU heats up quite a bit, but has it's own private heatsink with fan. Chipset will also generate a pretty good amount of heat but is also usually covered with a large (static) HS (green thingy in pic above where is says ASUS). Fast RAM (> 133 MHz) will generate some heat and newer type PC166 MHz RAM sometimes comes with "coats" to allow for dissipation. I think these are the most important sources of heat.

All this combined underscores the dire need for the continuous flow of cooler air across the board, which has been stated quite a few times in the earlier threads of this series.

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Karl, Denmark
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"..and may The Force be with you too..."

[This message has been edited by kallikru (edited 06-20-2001).]

Can the heat on the Mobo vary in temperature and why?

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Think of it as an engine; the faster it goes, the more it heats up. The more programs/apps that are running, the hotter the mobo gets. The temperature of the room affects it also (intake air). Additional heat sources (vid card, hard drive) affects the mobo temp also. Air, air, air--got to get it flowing through there.

*Incredible....bistro actually gave a straight answer....life is amazing...

That is a good analogy. So, if a person is heavy into, say, gaming there can be a significant enough buildup of heat caused from the game being played that could shut the computer down?

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Without getting into the deep technical details, why a chipset chip needs a fan? I can understand a cpu chip need a good fan, so is the vid. How much works are done by an AMD chipset vs Intel chipset? The latest AMD Athlon is less hotter. Is this a desgin fault which cause the chip so hot vs Intel?

Quote:

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Originally posted by bistro:
That's a mobo chipset fan, to cool the....mobo chipset. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ AMD mobo's tend to use a little more power than others; the chipset can get quite warm, so some manufacturers throw in the fan.

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If a person is into heavy gaming or any heavy duty graphcis,
The computer may display errors or even shut down if there is insufficient cooling for the video card and/or the processor.
Thus the reason for heatsinks and/or HSF (Heat Sink Fan) on current video cards and processors.

Example of a video card with HSF.
Only the fan can be seen at this angle though.

https://discussions.virtualdr.com/im.../2001/06/2.jpg



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Cheers.



[This message has been edited by Shinma (edited 06-20-2001).]

Hi,
MORE observations

since the motherboard and CPU are so important, you really ought to take a good look at the options.

suppose you need it for light use, and decide on low budget
An integrated motherboard could do.
Integrated means it has graphics and sound on board.
Boards around the intel 810 Chipset do not have a AGP slot, so it limits your upgrading options.
But if it is all you want, you can get by with such a solution.
You also find integrated boards with an AGP slot, still having a graphics chip on board
IF you later upgrade to an AGP CARD, the onboard chip is disabled. (waste of money)

You should also remember that when you put a PCI graphics card in NEXT to AGP, chances are it disables the AGP (lets say you want dual display). In those boards without AGP slot, it meant PCI 1, which is closest to CPU.
I was told this disabling did not happen on 810 chipset boards, but I know some boards do this. I mention it because it could otherwise be a mystery why the onboard AGP stopped working...

This link provides a choosing tool (its kinda limited... there must be many tools like it on the web) http://www.intel.com/home/buyers-guide/index.htm
The Intel motherboard information source is another (better) starting point for a good walkthru on what will affect your choices. http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd...odinfo2+devmb&

The choice of CPU will have a serious impact on your choice of motherboard and type of memory.
Once you have made the purchase, you are limited by the versatility of the motherboard
(I simply HAVE to mention your mobo determins options for future upgrades)

personal opinion
people building their own PC, will OFTEN put more things in it later on.
so you should not forget about upgrade and expansion options.

are you going to network the machines?
Then you need free slot(s) for network. You require space for at least ONE Network Interface Card (NIC).
Are you going to use CABLE connect? You better think of using an internal NIC.
(its my personal opinion, but cable connect on USB should be avoided)

you have SCSI scanner? you need a slot for its card.
You have SCSI burner/drives? You can either use a slot, ot go for a board with SCSI capabilities
You want a superb soundcard? you need a slot for it
video editing? TV card?
Radio card ?
(there are USB radio solutions)
you have (or need) a modem? ISA or PCI or AMR, or EXTERNAL
you need a FAXmodem? forget AMR
you plan on using many USB devices? you ask if the board has four USB, and ASK or find out IF using the connector for frontside USB does not disable ports at the back...

reading this topic, you will already feel you should get some information, so please, do get documentation.
NOT just the promotional flyer...
get the TECHNICAL PRODUCT SHEET
Put what you want to use the machine for in writing, and check capabilities against the wishlist.

Avoid disappointments, underspecifying to meet a budget is not a wise thing.
Besides, constanly feeling frustrated is bad for your health.
Also avoid OVER-SPECIFYING (some tasks are done maybe once a month, see)

Believe me, the mobo is even more important than the CPU.
The CPU will more often idly wait than you wanna believe when in use, and "bottlenecks" will become apparent.
Its not easy to get an evenly balanced system, but it is soooo very easy to introduce a bottleneck.

My Iwill VD133 system has a BOXED 600EB CPU, SECC2, and it's overkill in most cases
it was the lowest EB type CPU I could get when I bought it.
I did not want a CPU on 66 or 100FSB
I am not a gamer, so I am happy with AGP2X
Chipset had to be capable of FSB of 133, and I wanted a 533EB to go with it
It has UDMA 66 and I required ISA
I have often filled it to the brim
A versatile little testbed, this one.

my newer system again had a 600EB but this one is FCPGA
an Aopen AX34 pro II mobo has AGP4X, no ISA, and UDMA 66 and sound on board
(I did not get the UDMA 100)
It has had a RAID controller in it and virtually flew
of course, If I put the RAID in the Iwill, That one flies...

there are motherboards with RAID capabilities on board.
And some boards have SCSI.
These are things POWER users will like,
but they come at a price.
The RAID 0 and RAID 1 capability wich highpoint provides require identical IDE drives. The models and sizes of hard disks should match.
SCSI drives are more costly by themselves
Full SCSI RAID is TRULY high end.

I hope this little bit of info will make it clear that your choice of motherboard with its chipset capabilities depends on many things.
Don't just get some stuff because its there.
Try to build an evenly balanced system.
The money you throw at one thing can sometimes do a LOT more good getting a bit more memory or a better othersomething-thing

huh?
is that Flemish?

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Isn't There Always "something entirely different" we'll need to reconsider?
Kind regards, Jaak.

[This message has been edited by jtdoom (edited 06-20-2001).]

In reference to chipset heat , it is a well-known fact that those of us who use Intel mobo's are just 'cooler' people than those who use Athlon mobos. Now...if you believe that, I have a few monuments here in DC that you might be interested in buying...

A lot depends on the manufacturer/design of the chipset as far as heat produced. Athlon or AMD type mobos tend to have a little more power requirement than Intel-based mobos. May heat up more. Some manufacturers will pop a fan on there just for good measure whereas others (with the same chipset) forego doing so. Some modders (folks who just can't keep their hands off the system and have incredible compulsions to rewire/repaint and otherwise do everything to make their system different---I'm proud to be one of them) will slap a fan on the chipset just to keep it cooler--will last longer (or at least until next week when we see an even better mobo).
For the most part, if you have a good front intake fan/rear exhaust fan that's keeping a good air flow across the mobo, a chipset fan may be uneccessary. Is it already there? Leave it on. Don't have one? Should not be a big problem with sufficient air flow through there. No air flow? For 15 bucks you can get one of those little fire extinguishers; keep it by your desk.

[This message has been edited by bistro (edited 06-20-2001).]

Chipsets
I am told firewire controllers get really HOT

yes, the chipset is more than one chip.
the main functions at HIGH frequencies do the to and fro from CPU, graphics and RAM.

someone once explained the relation of frequencies with temperature.

whatever the cause, what gets hot, had better be properly cooled.


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Isn't There Always "something entirely different" we'll need to reconsider?
Kind regards, Jaak.

Quote:

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Originally posted by bistro:
In reference to chipset heat , it is a well-known fact that those of us who use Intel mobo's are just 'cooler' people than those who use Athlon mobos. Now...if you believe that, I have a few monuments here in DC that you might be interested in buying... No air flow? For 15 bucks you can get one of theose little fire extinguishers; keep it by your desk.

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https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

I would like the fire extinguisher in lime green please.



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Cheers.

Why lime green??

Now then. What all of you are talking about will not necessarily be found in textbooks. With many textbooks and in lectures I found myself geeting sleepy. Probably because they were boring. What we are doing is mixing the textbook and lecture information with experience. This is not boring. Readers can find information in here that you won't find to many places. Information that can make the difference in how their computers work.

Next question. Just what are my options as far as choosing a CPU. What should I stay away from?



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What Bistro says makes sense.

https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ even his humouristic nonsense makes sense https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

btb, you can mod the fire extinguisher.

it may be a good thing if a heatsink and fan is not "glued" on, and is easily replaceable

some time ago I looked at a system with probs. When I opened it up, I found a heatsink on a voodoo graphics card had come loose and there was no way to fasten another better cooling system to it (other than "glue")

high Front Side Bus (FSB) means high frequency
when DDR techniques are used, it may even get hotter due to more intense use.

Before you buy a board, try find info about it in user groups
Mind you, you will seldom see the people without problems there.
But if you read a AWFUL LOT of posts about the mobo you consider, you have to think twice, and digest what you have read.


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Isn't There Always "something entirely different" we'll need to reconsider?
Kind regards, Jaak.

ouch
what CPU should i stay away from?

my personal opinion
anything with a internal clock doubling higher than 8


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Isn't There Always "something entirely different" we'll need to reconsider?
Kind regards, Jaak.

Just what are my options as far as choosing a CPU. What should I stay away from?

Stay away from Cyrix, IMHO. Stick with well known, well-supported names such as Pentium and Athlon. Celerons (Intel) can be had for a song nowadays--but you are not going to get the speed you may want unless you overclock them.
Stay away from chips like "Just Like a Pentium" or "Athlon-Compatible". https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
Manufacturer "boxed" CPUs (box with the fancy printing/graphics) will have a full warranty on them--you go through the manufacturer. OEM (plain white box)--you can find some great deals, but be aware the warranty is pretty much left to the vendor; as well as out-of-the-box CPU chips(anywhere from the time you leave the store to 90 days). Have dealt with all of these and haven't had a problem yet. (But I like to play slot machines too....).




[This message has been edited by bistro (edited 06-20-2001).]