How can you tell that ?Quote:
Originally Posted by JPNYC
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How can you tell that ?Quote:
Originally Posted by JPNYC
Easily. You can get the screen res with any number of scripting languages, including javascript, the most commonly used one. You can also do it with PHP, VBscript, and Java. In fact I think you can with virtually any scripting language, client or serverside.
This is rediculous. At this point one can only conclude that the intention all along was to ram this down the member's throats and take the attitude of "they'll complain, but they'll have no choice but to accept it." And that attitude towards customers is crap. Clearly this change was one that one might reasonably expect to get a rise out of the members. Yet nothing at all was said about it happening. In fact, it seems even the mods (or most) knew nothing about this change taking place (clearly they were never given the opportunity to test and experience the new software and look on the development/test system). All we ever were told was about an upgrade of the board software, and we were assured it would be seemless and transparent. It seems a fair bet that the members weren't told ahead of time any of this because the powers who were in the loop on this knew if the changes could be gotten in before warning members then it would be much harder to get them undone/changed.
And in this post-upgrade environment I am left feeling we have been being stalled all along here. I see so many instances where questions/suggestions have been glossed over or never answered. It is even unclear at this point how far up the chain (in terms of decision makers) this was carried. The members have not said "no ads". They have tried to find a suitable compromise. I still do not see why what it see at the codeguru forums is so unworkable. All tht has been said is that they (codeguru) will eventually look like us, not why the codeguru layout is not viable.
Joe, I realize you are suppose to be the first line of contact (or BJ) in to Jupiter. But I do not see that something like the request Nix made (another contact in Jupiter) is either slighting you or unreasonable. You clearly cannot make a decision here, and that is fine. But if the members are displeased they have the right to voice that displeasure to someone who can respond/act. This like a customer with a problem being told by a person in a store "I can't do anything for you" and then when the customer asking to speak to the complaint department being told "you can't/shouldn't, you need to talk to them through me".
As I've said before, there are indeed some things users can do from their to try and make things workable: ad-blockers, change browsers, change resoultions... But some of these are really not reasonable things to expect members to do. Besides, all that has been offered are things that members can do, no talk/offer of something Jupiter will do (even talk about).
For those that may think it, this has not been a case of members being unreasonable, being picky, being ungratefully that Jupiter even allows them the priviege of having vdr. This has been a case of the members being treated like they count for nothing. Oh the postings they do that drive this site are desired, but that seems to be about it.
What this has been is the members becoming increasingly angry as their complaint is increasingly disregarded. We are told that, "Not only is this board not going to change, the board you said you could accept is going to become like this one." We are told that you cannot do anything about our complaint and that we cannot take out complaint anywhere else. The fact is, no matter how unwilling you are to state it, "this is the way the board is going to be and we can learn to live with it ot leave."
When I first complained I said that I would not leave in any sense of pique, but rather that gradually the alloyance of the appearance would cause me to use it less and less with a sense of regret. Now there is a rising sense of pique, not so much at the appearance as at the attitude of the ownership.
The Internet is an amazing place. Historically a seller has had to appeal to a market in order to sell to it. In this medium you can insult and annoy and make a mint. That seems, in fact, to be the main thrust of advertisers is to make their ads as annoying as possible. That's why we use ad-blockers in self defense.
I believe industry average is still a greater percentage 0f 800 x 600, certainly that is the case on, my site. Granted, this site draws a high percentage of tech users who might be expected to have larger monitors, but still...Quote:
Also, our stats show that the average user visiting our site has 1024x768 screen res.
And even those here who the members need to be thier advocates/representatives.Quote:
Now there is a rising sense of pique, not so much at the appearance as at the attitude of the ownership.
Folks I am sensitive to your wishes, and I have communicated the complaints to the appropriate parties in the company, but the change is barely a week old. I've also tried to implement every other request, not involving the ads, that has been posted by at least a handful of people. I've basically been on this site 16-17hrs a day including weekends, since the upgrade.
More of an observation then anything else but the content inside of a thread topic appears totaly different with different browsers.
Right now I have IE5.5 sp2 and Opera 7.1 running side by side.
In IE, the entire screen is filled as it should be. With Opera, it's the "half page" look.
Also, the page count is double in Opera (4) as compared to IE (2), which makes sense I guess.
I filter out all ads through my firewall and don't see them anyway, regardless of the browser being used.
Would it be a fair statement to say that this new upgrade is IE Friendly?
JP....First I want to thankyou for all of your efforts. I know it is your job, and I sense some feeling of empathy that you have for the members......albeit your job does not include making these decisions, but being the first line for JM and can only pass them on....and you must implement the changes that folks higher up the chain make......so please don't take what we say personally.
I came to this board over 4 years ago, when I daresay, there were not as many 'tech-help sites available. I knew nothing about pcs, or computing, and VDR made computing for me possible and enjoyable......so for me, this is a computing home away from home, and was the most wonderful learning place.........but learning is not enjoyable, nor productive now, when one has to endlessly scroll, from left to right, or up and down to be able to get a sense of what is posted about the specific issue that they are trying to fix on their pc.....and JM will not make money here if you chase people away, because they ( techies and newbies) can't hack the layout.....I for one will give it more time, but over time JM must show us they value our participation in VDR and are willing to do those things that make learning attainable.
Having spent a portion of my life in advertising and marketing, I can't see what is so hard for your advertisers, art department, etc., to create the layout for ads that can be symbiotic with the membership's reading of posts??.....I see it as a simple thing to do.....yet your 'higher-ups' give no indication that this is possible.....either by telling you info to post, or posting themselves......I started this post by thanking you 'JP' for all your efforts and want to emphasize the Thankyou......my rant is over now:D
Your voices (or typings?) have been heard.
You're 200% correct buddy, this new VDr layout sux BIG Time... I'm really troubled by the negative change here. Looks as if Virtual Doctor needs a doctor itself...Quote:
Originally Posted by Nix
This is not my opinion, but rather a fact.
JPNYC--Good Job!! Thanks.
Happy to see that our voices have been heard. Hopefully a lesson has been learned by all here. I personally hope, that in the future, no one has to get upset over changes made and that our voices can remain calm and still be listened to.
Speaking of Fuelman, where you been man? Haven't seen you around in ages. :)
I agree wholeheartedly..... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by usil
and a special thanks to BJ, JPNYC and fellow 'vocalists'... :cool:
poppy
First and foremost thankyou JPNYC for listening / reading / make the powers that be aware of our thoughts and feelings that have lead to the reinstatement of full screen width posts when reading a thread.
Just lovely. :D
Secondly apologies for my aparent brain snap yesterday, I started out thinking one thing and the more I thought about it the more I had memories of when I was 15 working as a casual in a department store and having to face up to irate customers who always ended up demanding to see the manager, who in most cases would simply bend of backwards to keep them happy, "the customer is always right".
I became that irate customer and thus my line of thought.
It was not meant as a personal attack on you JPNYC or any other person involved with JM or VirtualDr be it Administrator, Moderator or fellow member.
It was still good to air my thoughts and get them off my chest and maybe it helped in getting the message through to the powers that be - I'll never know.
A nice rest overnight and my mind is clear and I'm back for another day of help (where I can) and interaction with my fellow Drs at the Virtual Hospital. :)
My work schedule for the last 18 months has been over night, during the day I sleep and am left with little time to play. Now as of last Saturday, I'm back on days, but with my new position I have a lot to learn and am a bit stressed about it :D ...Quote:
Originally Posted by usil
Relocating the ads in the threads is a welcome step. Voicing complaints without expressing appreciation when a positive response is rendered would be rude. Please accept my thanks for your response to my opinion.
Glad to see ya back bud. :D BJQuote:
Originally Posted by Fuelm@n
Thank you Bill, ya know the old saying, good things come to those who wait. ;) BJQuote:
Originally Posted by Bill Heffner
LOL. And provided they're willing stand up and fight for what's right/wanted. ;)Quote:
ya know the old saying, good things come to those who wait.
I understood how everybody felt. I'm a user too, don't forget.
Yes, It must be hard for you and other admins and mods not to vent your feelings the way we do :DQuote:
Originally Posted by JPNYC
After all you are probably expected to lead by example to a certain degree.
Yeah brother.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMDJ
- Chuck D / Flava Flav - Public EnemyQuote:
Fight the Power
Fight the powers that be...
We're not allowed feelings. Fortunately I'm Vulcan-American. :)
It is indeed good that in the end things did work out on this. I for one am happy they did, and thank Joe for his work. But we all would be remiss if we did not come away from this ackowledging (without an incriminations or blaming) that this should really have never happened in the first place and need not have turned in to the ordeal it did. There are lessons to have been learned from this.
Yes, very true, maybe they should have had a beta version ???Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMDJ
Interestingly, JPNYC, were we at VDr the only ones that were up in arms ?
Yes, certainly to this degree. Some minor discontent elsewhere, but nothing comparable.
What a bunch of rebels.
Vox Populi
Voice of the People
:D :D
Carpe Aptenodytes!!
Sieze the Penguin!!
Now is the winter of our discontent
Made glorious summer by this sun of JPNYorkC
LOL! So I guess we can call this the 1st official meeting of the wacko society? :)
I guessshould have been heeded in this case ?Quote:
Beware the ides of March
Because we all feltQuote:
O, woe is me,
To have seen what I have seen, see what I see!
MaybeQuote:
Though this be madness, yet there is method in it.
Quote:
Cry "Havoc," and let slip the dogs of war.
Quote:
Pray you now, forget and forgive.
And they all came from http://www.famousquotes.me.uk/shakes...william/44.htm, I don't have a photgraphic Shakespeare memory.
Much improved layout. Thanks for following through with this.
Naw, this is simply the first one you attended. Want to reserve your tickets for the next meeting now? ;) :DQuote:
So I guess we can call this the 1st official meeting of the wacko society?
And maybe it should be SOP that users be notified ahead of time of pending changes that might effect them, and that before any changes (even just as concerns something like the board software upgrade alone) are actually rolled in to production that the local staff here be given and take the opportunity to get on a/the development/test system to check things out, get the feel of things, etc.Quote:
maybe they should have had a beta version ???
Certainly. 2 please, I may wanna bring a date. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMDJ
Oh come on now JP. If you want to break up with a girl then don't do it that way. Have the guts to simply just tell her. :pQuote:
I may wanna bring a date