Weekly Subject-06C- Mobos and Cpus

well,
it took a couple years before most programs were able to fully using MMX and/or 3Dnow capabilities.

I have followed the links maxximillian posted, and read stuff in there which mentions code compilers

it seems that (in a nutshell) when the code is optimised, the p4 stands its own against AMD, and even outperforms it.
But, at the current state of affairs, not many programs are re-compiled/optimised, and these seem to run faster on AMD and Piii

it also screams at programmers and the example I saw points out where many go wrong
one of these articles links no longer works
this article maxx posted is still found.

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at the moment I see that duron 800 run better than my piii600EB, but the EB machine has to run in a mobo of about a year old, and almost all slots are filled,
PLUS the fact it has been a while it saw a clean setup. (windows slows down over time)

whereas the duron is on a spanking new mobo
has only the AGP card in it (and it's a faster one by itself) and nothing much loaded yet.
the next days or so I'll try a few heavy apps on it, which hopefully won't scramble its bits and bytes guts, and I want to see how it copes with some more hardware thrown in.
I sure hope I wont have to straighten out many niggles. The guy paying this rig is not computer savvy, and did not require a scorcher.
But, if he has to cope with an unstable system, I'll be the dude he'll call.
=============

BTW,
this duron is a replacement for a IBM p75 he still used. The P75 CPU went nuts.
all I could test was tested, and it's the CPU? I still wanna completely rule out if it isn't the mobo at fault, but it's most likely the CPU.

anyway, I would still like to revive it, so I require a replacement P75, or P90, or P100.
I reckon his kids would love the duron, and he'd be happy with the old IBM for his office needs.
hehehee, I'm sure it would turn out this way https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ BIG GRIN https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
in short, I am in the market for an old (class one) Pentium, and my paypal don't work yet https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
Ebays counterpart in Belgium is only so-so https://discussions.virtualdr.com/


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Isn't There Always "something entirely different" we'll need to reconsider?
Kind regards, Jaak.

GlynBartlett
My ASUS A7V has the serial connections for mouse and keyboard. Bought the board in Feb 2001.

So, this another thing to look for in the mobo as have read where some new boards do not have them. Guess it is like I do not have any isa slots as if I needed them.
EDIT: Here is one form of the adapter they were talking about
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[This message has been edited by Train (edited 06-23-2001).]

Glyn,

The poly fuse is, as it says, a fuse in keyboard and usb port circuits that protects the MB against harmful voltages entering from these ports/connectors. If (for some reason) the fuse trips (cutting keyboardusb devices) it automatically resets itself after a period of time. Since it's not something that burns out or melts you never have to replace it.

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Train,

Yes, I've seen and heard reports of far "lesser" cpus beating the P4s under given circumstances. And it seems these "circumstances" might be the ones commonly faced on the typical home system.

Jaak,

Some of what you spoke of is what I was referring to in my initial post. Namely that a lot of capabilities of the P4 need to be programmed to, and much of the things in use (commonly) today aren't. Office apps, as an example, have been demonstrated to run worse on P4s. And your analogy to MMX is a good one. Like with that, programs are yet really written to exploit the instruction set additions and optimizations of the P4.

This all is why I raised to point in the first place. So that people will share what they've experienced, heard and/or read. It just seems like that, except in a few special cases, the P4s are something should avoid at this time.

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Hi Glynn

you noticed?
10 US Bucks for Mouse adapter Serial to PS/2

the other way round is much cheaper
PS2 to serial costs about 1.5 Bucks
and that kind of adaptor often comes with a PS-2mouse...
you can buy a PS-2 mouse for less than 10 Bucks

a new Keyboard doesn't cost much (as little as 8 Bucks for cheapoes)
but the adaptor should cost no more than 3 bucks
only when you have a good old robust reliable and expensive keyboard, it is worth getting one such adaptor.

btw, this is the price one pays when one upgrades components rather than get full systems.

so I'l comment on a few considerations about upgrading components versus replacing the full system...

you take a notebloc and start a cost/effect calculation

for instance.
I decide on a cheaper CPU I can find
suppose the slower one costs 140 Bucks and the fastest one avail for the mobo costs 350

a year later I wanna replace it
at that time, the much better one that still fits the mobo costs $140
you can bet your granny that your old one is worth only $30 when you wanna sell it
so you'd spend 250$ on a CPU
when that best one cost $350 you have "saved" $100
but you did not have the use of it for one year either...

the numbers ar hypothetical, but you should see see what I mean by them.

when one starts upgrading, one should also think about what money one could get selling the entire system, and what would happen if one gets an entire newer system.
When you estimate what you can get for it, you gotta be realistic.
and then take the cost of separate components
and weigh price against benefits
and consider drawbacks when keeping them

• #your new system would have a bottleneck if an old slow harddrive was used to boot from.
  
  #you cannot always use the RAM you have in a newer system.
  
  #the videocard you have may become a bottleneck.
  #Etc. etc..

ad infinitum, ad nauseam
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Kind regards, Jaak.

[This message has been edited by jtdoom (edited 06-25-2001).]

Just popped in to catch up on what ya'all be doin'. Gotta help son on his pickup, then I'll be back. Rather mess with computers than pickups. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ Later.

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The P4s are exactly as DrMDJ put it--not ready for prime time. I'm an Intel user from way back and would usually go up to the next step when upgrading. Not this time. #1:Looks like they got in too much of a hurry to put out the P4 and left out a few key features that puts some doubt into the quality of the chip.
#2: When I am forced to buy a new mobo to accomodate that chip (just to go from 966 to 1.3), plus RIMMs plus CRIMMs--that can get mighty expensive. Can get the same or better quality/speed/performance going other routes
for far less moolah. I think Intel made a big error there. Unfortunately, some folks IMHO are being dazzled by the "4" on "P4". Not all manufacturer "advancements" are necessarily better for the consumer. If one gets a P4 system, then later wants to upgrade (RAM in particular), be prepared to really shell out the cash. One alternative is to get a P3 1ghz and overclock it just slightly and you'd get the same speed, but better performance. Sure, the P3 may cost slightly more, but you don't have to invest gobs of money in the new mobo and compatible RAM. Just my two cents. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

[This message has been edited by bistro (edited 06-23-2001).]

I did not realize the P4 had that many issues with it. After it first came out there seemed to be questions about this or that. Looks like alot of those questions were answered. But also seems like they rushed it to market. There were writeups on that in some of the trade papers. I believe Microsoft did the same thing. Technology suffers when there's a race on. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

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Not to change the topic, but I've been reading a heck of a lot of posts lately from folks who have had one problem or another with onboard video/sound/modems.
While some have no problems with these, IMHO they are the lucky minority. While motherboards that have these onboard features may seem like a real deal and a time-saver, again IMHO, they would be much better off getting the actual cards. Now, I have purchased mobos that have onboard sound, but with absolutely no
intention of using the onboard--it simply had other specific features I was looking for that I couldn't find on others; the onboard turned off in the BIOS. "All-in-one's" may be appealing budget-wise (or simplicity in installing), but they seem to be more trouble than they are worth.

[This message has been edited by bistro (edited 06-23-2001).]

bistro
I will add that reading the manual on what to install and how, would help most of them I do believe. Also, the knowledge that I have found most of the newer mobo manual at the manufactures websites. Motherboards that is as I can not say that for computer manufactors and what they do to their stuff.

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hi

personal opinions here...

sound on board is plenty okay for me, since I need no super duper soundcard.
my Iwill doesnt have onboard.
the aopen AX34 pro II has a chippy I can live with

some boards have a jumper to disable it, and/or the BIOS setting.

video on board is NOT okay for me.
It can be okay for an office machine, but even the best onboard VGA are a poor excuse when compared to the humble TNT2, and they usually eat a chunk out of your RAM.

Back to sound on board
some mobo have the ensonique/creative SB128 on board, and that ain't such a bad thing to have.
( Soundcard I plugged in Iwill is a SB128)
others have a yamaha, and these can be plenty Okay too.

But, for the sound enthusiast, an onboard sound chip usually isn't good enough, and it may indeed clash with the card you plug in it.
with any luck, it can be totally disabled.
IMHO, that should be with a jumper.

funny as this may seem, I saw a mobo without the sound chip, which still had the sound onboard settings in BIOS.
I can imagine that this can clash with a high end soundcard.

there you have it all over again, there are many considerations when you want to purchase a new motherboard.
and many people never even give it a second thought.

All they see is OH, WOW, a 1.X gigahurts

Sadly, a new local store in my area is advertising Hurtz. Uninformed buyers fall for it.
they are lured into buying a Great Hurts with a paltry 8 meg video system of three or four chip generations ago...
https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

that duron I built?
fairly cheap K7VZA, ECS elitegroup KT133A/686B mobo, it has sound on board

I could have used a cheaper barebone and cellie solution (I think I could have saved him all of $30...)
but jeesh, I would not wanna dissapoint the guy's kids with a poor video system.

My resoning is this...
what's the point in choking a system by introducing a bottleneck from the start?

exactly.
'nuff said

end of personal rants.


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Isn't There Always "something entirely different" we'll need to reconsider?
Kind regards, Jaak.

Re onboard video/sound...

For those putting together basic, lower end, basic use type systems having these features onboard proably may well meet there needs, and does allow for some cost savings. Now for those with more demanding needs or tastes in terms of audio/video, the onboard stuff is never going to cut it. By all means if one is adding a sound and video card then they are better off not getting these onboard if possible. They can just add complication. Unfortunately, a lot of (otherwise) good boards have these features. I wouldn't tell someone not to get a particular board because it had these. But I would agree to not get them, or avoid them, if you plan to add seperate sound and video cards (other things being equal).

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Something else I'll offer my opinion on, and ask for those of others...

Boards can have a lot of subtle things about them that make them easier to deal with, or work on. Things like where jumpers and or switches are placed, where certain components/sockets/etc are placed on a board, where things are in relation to other things. As an example, some boards have jumpers/switches in tough places to get at once the board is installed or everything is assembled. Another example is where boards have capacitors (or the like) so close to things like the cpu socket that it can make installtion a pain. The list goes on...

So for my money the subtleties of board layout, "accessibility" on a board, can be something worth considering when selecting one. Usually the more notable review sites will talk about such things in reviewing boards (yet another reason people should look at these reviews when deciding). Granted, none of this necessarily has anything to do with a boards reliability or performance, but... Then again, there can be a relation of sorts. Often seeing that there was thought put in to the design may give an indication of the manufacturer's attention to detail and quality.

Any boards that anyone finds paricularly good or bad in this regard? Any specific problems anyone's had?


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Good Morning All, Did anyone else find the board slow last night? Seems OK now.

DrMDJ, These are the things that are important to bring out to save others time money and therefore eliminate problems before becoming a problem. I think understanding the Mobo will go a long way in doing the most good for those starting out.

There is just a tremendous amount that you can learn about Mobos and CPUs. And you will never learn everything as there are always continuing improvements. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/



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avoid the p4's as well they do have the upsides but as learning here mine has failed quite often

Good Morning All, Let's take a look at the PCI slots on the Mobo. What type of cards go in these slots? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/



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Hmmm, that's a tough one. I wish you would start giving multiple choice questions GG1. Alright, I'm gonna go for broke. Would PCI cards go in these slots? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ (Couldn't resist...)

Nowadays, with the exception of graphics cards (and these can be had in PCI too) almost any add-on card one would be looking to put in would be pci. Modems, sound, network, extra USB or disk controllers (SCSI, RAID or IDE), MPEG decoders, firewire, extra parallel or serial ports. You can get ISA versions of some of these, but PCI versions would be preferred. The PCI bus runs faster, will yield better performance (because of things like Bus Mastering capabilities, etc), and cards on it are easier to configure.

It use to be that if a board had a couple of PCI slots that was more than enough, because most cards were ISA based. Now a person can use up 3 or 4 PCI slots without even trying. This coupled with the fact that some boards don't support bus mastering in all PCI slots, some use different arrangements of shared vs. non-shared IRQs for the slots, and that Slot 1 can be effectively unusable on some when an AGP video card is used, most people will want/need a board with 5 or more PCI slots. Fortunately this isn't a problem as most current boards offer this many.

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We have taken a look at the different slots on the mobo. What is the easiest way to remember what card goes where when building a computer?

Another question on the color coding of slots. Why should I know the what the different colors mean? Is this just the way it happened as Mobos evolved to todays state of the art?



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Can't really say how the colors of the expansion slots evolved. AGP:light brown, AGP vid cards only--closest slot to the CPU.
Simply put, it's a glorified PCI slot. A little shorter than standard PCI.

PCI: off-white, medium length (compared to ISA). Usually numbered from 1 to 5 or 6, starting from the one next to the AGP slot. Usually a good idea to leave the #1 PCI slot (next to the AGP) empty--allows for good air flow to the vid card. If one has a PCI video card and an AGP slot on the mobo, put the PCI vid in PCI slot #1. Usually recommended to put the sound card in PCI slot #2 (has an assigned IRQ). Other cards (modems, network interface cards (NICs), controller cards, etc.) can be placed in the PCI slots wherever one chooses pretty much.

ISA: long, black slots. Mobos used to be all ISA or EISA (Extended ISA--just a bit longer). Slowly being phased out, which is unfortunate IMHO, when it comes to modems. Prefer an ISA modem to a PCI modem---doesn't rely on the processor as much as a PCI. Anyhoo, they are still available on many motherboards to accomodate not only ISA modems, but any "legacy" (older ISA) cards.

That's basically it. Brown, white, black--pretty much industry standard now. If they ever go to designer neon colors, that's the day I'll quit. (Now watch....someone is gonna find one and post the link here....) https://discussions.virtualdr.com/


[This message has been edited by bistro (edited 06-25-2001).]

Now let's look at troubleshooting the Mobo and the best place to start with is the BIOS. Nowadays this is a chip that you can flash if need be. In troubleshooting the BIOS there are several things to check as you are going through the troubleshooting procedure. Can you describe a typical procedure? What do you check first, second, etc?

The reason we are looking at the BIOS is that we get a lot of similar questions on it, when in actuality it is not difficult to understand. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/


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Another item to consider, that I have just found in a magazine (PC Pro, Issue 82, James Morris), is that your OS may not be compatible with your MOBO. The example given was WIN2K and a 1 year old MOBO. “The important issue is ACPI (Advanced Configuration and Power Interface).” This is a lot more than an upgrade to APM (Advanced Power Management). “ACPI also controls system IRQ resources. Plug and Play is now part of ACPI. As ACPI controls turning peripherals on and off to save power, it makes sense that it must also control resource allocation for those peripherals.” “...an ACPI-incompatible system Windows 2000 will install in Standard PC mode, which controls resources using traditional Plug and Play.” “ACPI ... routes all PCI and AGP devices to one IRQ.” “Interrupt calls are intercepted by the OS and conflicts are thereby supposedly avoided. In standard PC mode, or with Windows 9x, the BIOS routing table or a hardware specific IRQ routing driver is used”.

Another item, from the same magazine, announced that AMD SmartMP technology allowed a second processor to effectively double a systems performance “which simply isn’t the case with current Intel solutions.” It goes with out saying that your OS has to support dual processors.

Regards,

Glyn

Usually you'll get a beep code on bootup when errors crop up with the BIOS. First thing to do is determine the beep code. Good source HERE. Will save a lot of time and narrow down the problem.

A lot of BIOS "errors" appear to be with RAM--usually either RAM gone bad or the wrong RAM stick installed. Check the RAM to make sure it's still well seated. Check the new RAM stick; does it match the other RAM in there? No new RAM but problem there: Take out one stick at a time and reboot to find the 'bad' one.

Check the processor settings. Are they correct for the installed processor? Check the CPU fan. Durons and Athlons in particular heat up very rapidly--if they have insufficient cooling, the computer will either shut down or hang during the BIOS post.

Hard drive settings correct? Some older BIOS's cannot support large hard drives without either a flash upgrade or without a drive overlay program.

BIOS won't post? Or hold it's settings? Check the battery--they last a long time, but not forever. Replace if necessary.
Still hangs during post? Could possibly be a Master Boot Record virus.


Just a few suggestions..... https://discussions.virtualdr.com/


[This message has been edited by bistro (edited 06-25-2001).]

We will have a separate section on BIOS and just want you to be able be familiar with its overall function now.

How about accessing BIOS? Would I ever need to do that? And if I had to access BIOS how do I know if the BIOS readings are right?



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Quote:

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Originally posted by bistro:
...That's basically it. Brown, white, black--pretty much industry standard now. If they ever go to designer neon colors, that's the day I'll quit. (Now watch....someone is gonna find one and post the link here....) https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

---

Tsk, tsk. Does purple count? I can't seem to find the one in pink.
Posted this image last Friday. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

http://www.ocworkbench.com/archives/jun2001/aopen1.jpg


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Cheers.

[This message has been edited by Shinma (edited 06-25-2001).]

Nice graphics work shinma.
All those smiley faces. :0

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The computer's BIOS/CMOS is typically accessed by pressing a single keyboard key.
ie. Delete, F2, F10...
Key pressed varies among the different manufacturers and/or models.
One would enter the CMOS to tweak the system for quicker response and/or customization(s).
The CMOS menu in a typical tier-one system (ie. Compaq, Dell...) has very little options available.
The standard mobos, direct from the mobo manufacturers tyically would have a lot more.



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Cheers.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Train:
Nice graphics work shinma.
All those smiley faces. :0

---

Hi Train,
That mobo is actually on sale apparently, in the Pacific Rim countries.
Not sure if they will be selling it anywhere else though.
Still can't find that pink mobo to drive bistro coo-coo! https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

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Cheers.

[This message has been edited by Shinma (edited 06-25-2001).]

Shinma, there's got to be one somewhere. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

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Good Morning All, Before we finished up on Mobos, troubleshooting should be discussed a little bit more and to get us started here is a general article I found that we can expand on from your personal experiences.A.)

Ideally, troubleshooting is best accomplished with duplicate parts that allow for "test" swapping. In general, it is best to troubleshoot on systems that have been leaned-out. Remove unnecessary peripherals (soundcard, modem, harddisk, etc.) to check the unworking device in as much isolation as possible. Also, when swapping devices, don't forget the power supply. Power incompetency (watts and volts) can cause intermittent problems at all levels, but especially with UARTS and HD's.
Inspect the motherboard for loose components. A loose or missing CPU, BIOS chip, Crystal Oscillator, or Chipset chip will cause the motherboard not to function. Also check for loose or missing jumper caps, missing or loose memory chips (cache and SIMM's or DIMM's). To possibly save you hours of frustration i'll mention this here, check the BIOS Setup settings. 60% of the time this is the cause of many system failures. A quick fix is to restore the BIOS Defaults. Next, eliminate the possibility of interference by a bad or improperly set up I/O card by removing all cards except the video adapter. The system should at least power up and wait for a drive time-out. Insert the cards back into the system one at a time until the problem happens again. When the system does nothing, the problem will be with the last expansion card that was put in.

B.)RESETTING CMOS.
Did you recently 'flash' your computers BIOS, and needed to change a jumper to do so? Perhaps you left the jumper in the 'flash' position which could cause the CMOS to be erased.

If you require the CMOS Reset and don't have the proper jumper settings try these methods: Our Help Desk receives so many requests on Clearing BIOS/CMOS Passwords that we've put together a standard text outlining the various solutions.


C.)NO POWER.

Switching power supplies (the most common used PC's), cannot be adequately field-tested with V/OHM meters. Remember: for most switching power supplies to work, a FLOPPY and at least 1 meg of memory must be present on the motherboard. If the necessary components are present on the motherboard and there is no power:
1) check the power cable to the wall and that the wall socket is working. (You'd be surprised!)
2) swap power supply with one that is known to work.
3) if the system still doesn't work, check for fuses on the motherboard. If there are none, you must replace the motherboard.

D.)PERIPHERAL WON'T WORK.

Peripherals are any devices that are connected to the motherboard, including I/O boards, RS232/UART devices (including mice and modems), floppies and fixed-disks, video cards, etc. On modern boards, many peripherals are integrated into the motherboard, meaning, if one peripheral fails, effectually the motherboard has to be replaced.* On older boards, peripherals were added via daughter boards.
*some MB CMOS's allow for disabling on-board devices, which may be an option for not replacing the motherboard -- though, in practicality, some peripheral boards can cost as much, if not more, than the motherboard. Also, failure of on-board devices may signal a cascading failure to other components.
1. New peripheral?

a) Check the MB BIOS documentation/setup to ensure that the BIOS supports the device and that the MB is correctly configured for the device.
(Note>> when in doubt, reset CMOS to DEFAULT VALUES. These are ) (optimized for the most generalized settings that avoid some of) (the conflicts that result from improper 'tweaking'. )
b) Check cable attachments & orientation (don't just look, reattach!)
c) If that doesn't work, double-check jumper/PnP (including software and/or MB BIOS set) settings on the device.
d) If that doesn't work, try another peripheral of same brand & model that is known to work.
e) If the swap peripheral works, the original peripheral is most likely the problem. (You can verify this by testing the non-working peripheral on a test MB of the same make & bios.)
f) If the swap periphal doesn't on the MB, verify the functionality of the first peripheral on a test machine. If the first peripheral works on another machine AND IF the set-up of the motherboard BIOS is verified AND IF all potentially conflicting peripherals have been removed OR verified to not be in conflict, the motherboard is suspect. (However, see #D below.)
g) At this point, recheck MB or BIOS documentation to see if there are known bugs with the peripheral AND to verify any MB or peripheral jumper settings that are necessary for the particular peripheral to work. Also, try a different peripheral of the same kind but a different make to see if it works. If it does not, swap the motherboard. (However, see #D below.)

2. Peripheral that worked before?

a) If the hood has been opened (or even if it has not), check the orientation and/or seating of the cables. Cables sometimes 'shake' loose or are accidentally pulled out by end-users, who then misalign or do not reattach them.
b) If that doesn't work, try the peripheral in another machine of the same make & bios that is known to work. If the peripheral still doesn't work, the peripheral is most likely the problem. (This can be verified by swapping-in a working peripheral of the same make and model AND that is configured the same as the one that is not working. If it works, then the first peripheral is the problem.)
c) If the peripheral works on another machine, double-check other peripherals and/or potential conflicts on the MB, including the power supply. If none can be found, suspect the MB.
d) At this point, recheck MB or BIOS documentation to see if there are known bugs with the peripheral AND to verify any jumper settings that might be necessary for the particular peripheral. Also, try another peripheral of the same kind but a different make to see if it works. If not, swap the motherboard!

E.)OTHER INDICATIONS OF A PROBLEM MOTHERBOARD.

1. CLOCK that won't keep correct time. >>Be sure to check/change the battery.
2. CMOS that won't hold configuration information. >>Again, check/change the battery.

Note about batteries and CMOS: in theory, CMOS should retain configuration information even if the system battery is removed or dies. In practice, some systems rely on the battery to hold this information. On these systems, a machine that is not powered-up for a week or two may report improper BIOS configuration. To check this kind of system, change the battery, power-up and run the system for several hours. If the CMOS is working, the information should be retained with the system off for more than 24 hours.


F.)BAD MOTHERBOARD OR OBSOLETE BIOS?

1. If the motherboard cannot configure to a particular peripheral, don't automatically assume a bad motherboard, even if the peripheral checks out on another machine -- especially if the other machine has a different BIOS revision. Check with the board manufacturer to see if a BIOS upgrade is available. Many BIOS upgrades can be made right on the MB with a FLASH RAM program provided by the board maker. See our BIOS page for more information.

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[This message has been edited by greengoose1 (edited 06-26-2001).]

GG1,

In terms of the current topic, I (just my opinion) would say that perhaps the more appropriate bios-related discussion would be in terms of things like features offered in a bios. The pros and cons of particular settings that mb makers provide (or don't) in their bios implemenations that offer greater/lesser convenience, flexibility and control. Things like jumperless designs and SoftMenues come in to this. But there are also other settings that may or may not be present which can effect a person's ability to tweak, tailor or optimize their setup. The bios certainly is worthy of discussion here. Afterall it is a part of the motherboard. But I just think it is the things about this bios or that that are important in the decision/pre-purcahse phase of things. There are meaningful differences in different bios implementations of boards. Certainly to the potential overclocker, but not these people alone.

Bios access, settings (what to set, how) and diagnosis are probably more appropriately left (again, my opinion) to discussions in the post-purchase topics (eg. installation, troubleshooting and optimization).

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Hi DrMDJ, Good point on BIOS. I felt like we should talk about it in general terms as much as possible but also give some info that people could use right now if they had a need. From what you just said, I am looking forward to what you have to say in detail when we get to it.

And now some feel good for not only DrMDJ but the rest of you contributors. I have received some nice comments about your efforts and apparently the end result is that people are learning, being helped with problems and the like. These threads have been referred to in other forums besides VirDr. As I have said more than once sharing your knowledge with those that want it is great. And hopefully it can really help. For that matter, I believe we are all learning. Thanks again for being a part of this.

And for you new readers, if you have any questions, do ask. Someone will have an answer. If we don't know the answer we will find it. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

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GG1,

RE you waiting for what I have to say... I was afraid you'd say that. After further consideration I feel things were going in the right direction after all. Forget everything I said. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

And as far as the good press... It's good to know all that anonymous emailing and posting some of us have been doing is working.


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Hi gang https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Since you guys are on the topic of CPU and motherboards, I wonder if you can take a look at this thread I posted:
http://discussions.virtualdr.com/For...ML/003527.html

I need a reputable dealer to buy from and maybe an opinion or two. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

I just picked up an Antec ATX mid-tower. Looking to get an already assembled combo with CPU, board, heatsink, and fan. Thanks

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I want my Win98 Emachine back !!!

MAXXIMILIAN'S

DrMDJ: No problem with that. I often forget everything I said 5 minutes ago.... https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Maxx: Pricewatch is probably the best bet to find vendors. Saves a lot of time searching around. Make sure you get a good cooler for a Duron--those chips can fry an egg within a minute of booting up. Good chip for the money though. Recommend an intake and exhaust fan also.

Are we going around in a circle? Why do I feel confused? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

DrMDJ, I can't forget what you said. I've started "saving" these threads until they're finished. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Bistro, On the memory thing, that is nothing more than......... what was I saying? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

maxx, good to hear from you. What are you frying now? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/



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Thanks bistro. I was over to pricewatch and saw some great prices for what I need. Just wasn't sure about the vendors. I'll assume that Pricewatch uses reputable websites and pick something out.

Greengoose,

This is going to be the emachine ressurection project. I'm canabalizing the emachine for parts and putting together a really cheap puter...LOL I figure enough of it's parts will be in the new one, that I can still lovingly refer to her as an Emachine...LOL https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Trying to do this with a $300 budget!!!!!

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I want my Win98 Emachine back !!!

MAXXIMILIAN'S

maxx, Oh Oh !! Got an idea. For those of us that need backup (that's everybody), and don't have the big bucks, find a used computer that you could save "stuff" on and also be able to get on the internet to communicate with in case your primary computer goes down. Many possibilites in this scenario.

(Gotta quit wandering. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ https://discussions.virtualdr.com/)

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Quote:

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Originally posted by maxximilian:
Hi gang https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Since you guys are on the topic of CPU and motherboards, I wonder if you can take a look at this thread I posted...

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Posted a suggestion.

https://discussions.virtualdr.com/



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Cheers.

Went back and pulled the following excerpt I posted a few days ago as a review. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Where we are going with this is that when we are finished you will be able to picture in your mind the mobo and what is plugged in or attached to it. And this will help you in troubleshooting, modding, asking questions and the like. How many times have you asked yourself when reading a question on these forums, "I wonder where that is". Now you will know. You could even copy and paste one of these mobos into a file on your computer for reference or print it and make notes on it. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

As you can see after discussing general troubleshooting all we have left to go into will be the plugins to the board. These are various cards that plug in and other periphials that are plugged in through cables.

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[This message has been edited by greengoose1 (edited 06-26-2001).]

Hi Guys,

Been lurkin' and have gathered some great info. from this thread. The few times i've thought of something to add, the quickies have beat me to it. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Would like to add just one hint tho'. Maxx mentioned "Pricewatch" as a good place to find bargains and i agree. But, i've heard tales of horror from people who just went with the best price and didn't check the company out. I would suggest that when you find the best "good" deal there, you immediately go over to www.resellerratings.com and check them out. Granted, they may not be perfect in their evaluations(cause low-life resellers can also post "good" stuff there as B.S.),but after reading a few reviews you can pretty much pin down the phoney balonie's.
Some will say "Bizrate" can be used to check, but have read comments that they are not always honest about company's and their rating system is very hard to follow at times.
Ok,, my two cents worth,,but , by all means,,Caveot Emptor! Can save a lot of bucks and headaches. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

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