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Hi DrMDJ, We're attempting to get back on track. But having two problems hit us back to back was "interesting". Fortunatly we were able to get most if not all of our info back. This was the important thing, not to lose what everyone had said even though the format leaves something to be desired. And what I was surprised about, but pleased, was the teamwork shown in "hanging" this together. It makes it all worthwhile to be associated with people like this.
I agree as I have said before that this is not textbook perfect, nor will it be when you ask people to contribute with few restrictions. We want a melting pot of knowledge that is made up of everyone that wants to add something. I like to see people say what they want to say, not say what they think others want them to say.
We have a good product to offer - knowledge.
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Bravo, Bravissimo
I was wondering WHEN DrMDj would post something awesome.
IMHO, that's a wonderful description of the basics.
we should sit back, and digest it, and then perhaps do some in depth about various CPU types.
matter of fact, I am going to benefit since I have not been reading up on AMD all that much.
The comparitive chart I had is a year old, and only covered Intel.
When GG1 asked what processors I would avoid, I said I'd not go for a CPU with an internal clock doubler greater than 8.
believe me, I pondered this.
I almost wanted to say no more than 6.
I feel that a CPU will all too often be very idle... But, it should not become a bottleneck.
I don't say I know the art of building well balanced systems, but I do try.
There is no point in choking the CPU by using a low speed bus.
On the other hand, if you don't plan for upgrading single components, there is little point in going for high speed memory and bustypes when the lower end CPU you chose cannot use it.
Some motherboard chipsets can effectively use the higher speed RAM, and others cannot.
Its a thing called hostclock/dramclock ratio, where host means CPU.
All in all, when looking at comparitive tests, try to not compare strawberry with pear. (apple being a type of puter...)
When you want to buy, try find a zine or two with a comparative test feature on motherboards
they will usually not compare Celis Gold with Chardonnay.
Now what made me say THAT?
hmmm, I need to see the fridge... https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
EDIT>
hmmm, it struck me that people may not know we call celerons cellies (celis gold = beer)
and that a comparitive test on motherboard/CPU combos will most often be done within ranges using same class of CPU and amount of ram.
a serious magazine will point out how the test is run and evaluated.
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Isn't There Always "something entirely different" we'll need to reconsider?
Kind regards, Jaak.
[This message has been edited by jtdoom (edited 06-22-2001).]
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GG1,
I was just kind of poking fun at the "difficulties" with this weeks thread(s). Just when I thought things were set again in the second thread I say this one. Hopefully this one will be able to be the last. It was good the people pitched in to try to get things back, recover from the foul ups.
You're right, these topics are places for brain dumps and open to all. And that's as was intended. It's not a problem as long as there can remain some flow, some order. And definately, people should express there own views, info, experiences, etc. As near as I can tell they are.
jaak,
Ya might need a little ant-acid or something to aid in the digestion process. These massive posts I seem to be prone to lately can be a little tough to swallow. In fact, I think they made the server sick the other day and resulted in all the problems with this weeks topic.
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[This message has been edited by DrMDJ (edited 06-21-2001).]
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DrMDJ,
I hope you saw bravo bravissimo as PRAISE, not sarcasm.
I could not have written it the way you do.
It is such a good article, that people NEED digest it, and then reread it.
It is bound to induce some understanding.
I already picked up on one of the things you said in there. Kinda like a continuance of something I almost said.
https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ now That's weird https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
btw, I don't think long posts kill a thread.
for instance, booter is long, and the kingsknight security topic summary is extremely long....
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Kind regards, Jaak.
[This message has been edited by jtdoom (edited 06-22-2001).]
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Good Morning All, Looks like we are getting back on track. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
Jaak, A good wine. Why just yesterday I was looking at some recipes and wondering what would go with........ Oops, wrong forum. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
Where'd Glyn go? It's getting so you can't keep up with any body.
Seems nice to have things quieting down a bit so we can concetrate more on what we're doing instead of trying to repair a thread.
Ok then, back to Mobos. On the ISA slots of which there are two in the above image, they are notched. Why is that and what are we going to put in them?
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[This message has been edited by greengoose1 (edited 06-22-2001).]
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hey Goose, that's a trick question https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
the slot you see is actually an EISA or extended ISA
ISA stands for Industry Standard Architecture
(I don't think they have anything to do with the size of bricks...)
the notch is the divide between ISA and the EXTENTION
(on old 486 board there existed yet another form, for LOCAL bus. It had a third part (iow, an eisa extention, and the Local B us extention) Mainly used for Video Local Bus cards, but some soundcards and high end controllers used them.
thus you could have slots with one block, and some with two, and in high end boards you saw a mix of EISA and VLB
(the videocard using these VLB were referred to as VESA LOCAL BUS. and VESA stands for Video Electronics Standards assosiation.
Whoa, I was doing this from the top of my head. You guys make me think a lot, you do...
Actually, while I am thinking about this, you could see some form of colour code to distinguish those various standards.
you still can.
I don't think is is rocket science, and a true standard (I dunno)
for instance, the ata 66 IDE on mobo may be blue, and an ata 100 may be white, whereas the older udma 33 were usually black.
the AGP is usu brown
PCI is usu creamy white
(the VLB extention in them old VLB 486 mobo was usu brown)
as I say, I don't know if this colouring is done to a strict standard.
does anyone know?
I've even seen yellow?
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Kind regards, Jaak.
[This message has been edited by jtdoom (edited 06-22-2001).]
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Jaak,
Not to worry. I've been around here long enough to know you weren't being sarcastic. And if you ever were it probably would be because I deserved it.
Thanks for the praise. More than was deserved. As usual I was just getting out some ideas/views that were occurring to me. Hopefully there was at least something that will be of value to someone. That's how to get value out of these threads: get a piece of info from here, one from there, see what makes sense and what doesn't, see what applies to you...
I do hate that my posts have been so long lately. Probably most people like the nice, short, "bang here ya go" type posts. Things have just not worked out that way for mine. Times been at a premium so I've found myself ducking in infrequently and "dropping the big one". Hopefully that will change. I prefer to keep up with the goings on.
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DrMDJ: Not to criticize, but when I tried to print out your post, I got an printer error message: "Printing suspended until you go out and buy 2 reams of paper." https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
No problem....fire away with your thoughts and ideas. Folks will glean what they will glean. Better than "CPUs are really neat. Go get one if you want to build a computer."
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I wondered how anyone was gonna summarise it like someone suggested should happen.
(I know, they thought you are the perfect candidate to make them sums-up)
Okay
CPU type is important.
celeron have a 66Mhz front-side-bus or FSB.
and indeed, as was later pointed out,
the newest have fsb of 100 http://support.intel.com/support/pro.../sspec/icp.htm
Piii either have 100 or 133 FSB.
Note: ‘E’, ‘B’ and ‘EB’ nomenclature is used.
- ‘E’ designates Advanced Transfer Cache and Advanced System Buffering support.
- ‘B’ designates 133 MHz System Bus support.
- ‘EB’ designates Advanced Transfer Cache, Advanced System Buffering and 133 MHz System Bus support.
that info was found in this page here
at that page, at the top of it you find links to specification update and quick reference guide sheets
(the stuff I always tell you to get)
you can get info on celerons
and the pentium 4
actually, when you see that blue button, PLATFORMS, you can see how the industry thinks about intended use for their products.
the Sspec are useful
you find info on stepping, and FSB and voltages.
the stepping is a MUST know for DUAL processor machines as they should either be same or be compatible (same is best)
AMD does something similar http://www.amd.com/products/cpg/cpg.html
boy oh boy, you can spend days in sites like these.
You can dig up TONS of info.
when you plan a purchase, you should do so.
same goes for motherboard.
when you have a hard time finding specifics and real world info, you better look for another board manufactor.
gotta split, just got a call.
edited, added a tiny bit of important info
[This message has been edited by jtdoom (edited 06-24-2001).]
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It's Friday and brain is shutting down.
Have a chuckle.
Aopen AX3SPPRO CheChe mobo.
https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
Abit Casper ST6E
http://www.ocworkbench.com/archives/jun2001/st6e.jpg
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Cheers.
[This message has been edited by Shinma (edited 06-22-2001).]
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One small correction: Most Celerons have 66 MHz FSB. New ones (on and above 800 MHz I think....) have 100 MHz FSB.
If you want to get into building a dual processor system you have to be aware that not all processors will run in a dual system. Pentium 3 (incl. coppermines) will, but the socalled Celeron IIs won't ("Classic" Celerons will). Athlons/T-bird won't - at least until now, new mobos for dual Athlon/T-birds are just now emerging.
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Karl, Denmark
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"..and may The Force be with you too..."
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...and don't consider a dual thinking that will give you double the processor speed--a misconception. It just shares the load; good for heavy CAD and/or graphics rendering applications. Had an acquaintance spend half a fortune on one thinking he could make two 500's into a gig.BZZZZTTT! Wrong! We're sorry, Bob! But we have some nice consolation prizes for you offstage....
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Do any of you realize how frustrating it is not to be able to post. Our AS400 bombed out this morning and then when it came back up we had to play catchup.
JTDoom - A trick question? Well, I'll be de...... https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
DrMDJ, That was a good piece on CPUs. As JT Doom pointed out a reader might reread this a couple or more times and each time get more out of it.
Shinma, what's the price on the Casper Mobo?
Bistro wasn't far off as far as paper needs go. Anything that I feel is really important I back up on paper. For you newer members just getting started, you can highlight, copy and paste, say DrMDJ's CPU post, to word (which will save ink and paper), and print it out for your future reading, review whatever. You simply cannot, (unless you have a photographic memory), remember everything that is presented.
Back to the Mobo. There are PS/2, USB, Series and Parallel ports. Why are there different ports? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
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Yo guys,
what is an AMR CODEC ?
and should I leave it master or set to slave?
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Isn't There Always "something entirely different" we'll need to reconsider?
Kind regards, Jaak.
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Jaak, This any help?
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