And with numbers such as you're talking SS I just can't see it be a Mod problem... I mean how many people could you guys actually drive away from here! ;-)
The new forum is coming and will keep things pretty busy on your end... I'll be curious how things fare after that. Should give a good indication of how much it has to do with the current situation.
I have tended not to name names specifically. But since you mentioned this site... Yes, they rack up some incredible numbers. Now, they may have a bit more than twice the registered membership of vdr, but even factoring that in their numbers are off the charts.Quote:
There is one site out there, TSG
Hmm.........go there answer a few queries and come away within about five minutes.To many peeps with an attitude problem for me though there are lots of good folk posting there as are here and I mean no disrespect to them.I believed I mentioned before about this [VDR] being a site with an adult attitude to responses.Quote:
Originally posted by SuperSparks
There is one site out there, TSG, that kicks every other site's backside. They have an average of 2,800 posts per day.
I personally don't think we need to go down that road to increase membership.Its like if I owned a bar I could get all sorts of folk through the door if I was prepared to put up with lets say the less celubrious charaters and the odd bar fight.
The key is what are the problems, differences, etc.Quote:
And with numbers such as you're talking SS I just can't see it be a Mod problem
Quote:
Originally posted by 104456
Hmm.........go there answer a few queries and come away within about five minutes.To many peeps with an attitude problem for me though there are lots of good folk posting there as are here and I mean no disrespect to them.I believed I mentioned before about this [VDR] being a site with an adult attitude to responses.
I personally don't think we need to go down that road to increase membership.Its like if I owned a bar I could get all sorts of folk through the door if I was prepared to put up with lets say the less celubrious charaters and the odd bar fight.
Very well said 10, I couldn't agree with you more. I notice the "attitude" over there too. Which, perhaps, is just another illustration of the power of search engine rankings, that they can attract such numbers without being a particularly friendly place. There is no need for that to happen here though, when we start growing again.
So I sit here thinking... what the hell is TSG. Trying to guess... hum, little game in my head. Gave up and googled.... oh yeah! I remember those guys/that guy. Way back they twisted me up in a ball ... I over-stayed my welcome very quickly.
Found a good place here and there ya go.... so, get the new board in place and we'll see who number one! ;-) But, would rather be number whatever here than #1 there!
Lucky I didnt mention TOS or JTS then :rolleyes: :D
oooooohhhh! I should be hating you about now! :p :p :D
All the mods huh.....I didnt realize we were required to post......sometimes a good mod can just sit back and read.....been lurking this thread since it started....Doc as usual you make some good points...and are keeping this thread moving along nicely.....
Very interesting thread. Have actually read all 17 pages, with approximately 40 different posters. Although a very minuet % of the membership, I applaud DrMDJ for starting this thread.
Appears to be getting repetitious, however, a lot of good points have been made, and most certainly welcomed comments, that hopefully will not be taken lightly, by Management and the Mod's.
Before I give my thoughts I would like to clear one thing up about one of the other sites that has been mentioned here. Cybertechhelp (CTH). I mod over there and have been for a couple of years. Why? because a couple of years ago I was asked by the owner, who was a member of VRDR.
That particular site is solely owned by one individual. His goal is to break even, between the ad's and the subscription's he manages to do so. Obviously not a big Corporation/Company, owns/runs the site by himself, and does it for the love of computers and trying to help folks out...enough said.
Which gets to one of the comments made in this thread. WHY? have folks migrated to other sites? That is the crust of the problem here at VRDR, Can anyone answer this? NO! just provide some insight on the possible causes.
Having been here for 7 long years, and have probably been the longest active moderator, I will give you my thoughts. In my mind, there are many factors that drive people away from any site;
- No answer's to post
- Taking to long to get an answer
- Getting the wrong answer
- First time poster not feeling welcomed
- Only answer is a link to a MS KB or another site
- Rude member's
- Rude moderators
That's it, simple as that. I somewhat agree that the forum software may have something to do with it, but that is not keeping members away, come on...If new members are posting simple questions, because they are beginners, they don't know the difference of VB software. I will say that for those that have experienced the upgraded software, that it is more user friendly, don't need to use HTML code for your post, and the colors are more eye appeasing, then the dull gray here. -although some like the gray.
Back to my proposed list above. Most are easy solutions, a couple are not. It is the Mod's/Admin job to greet and welcome new members. Not that I am the ultimate mod, but I believe you will not find a post of mine for a brand new member that doesn't start out Welcome to VRDR. A very simple phrase, but a potent one. Some members will even welcome new members, if they are the first poster for their thread. Easy..
I have seen many posts go unanswered for many hours, sometimes a day. I always try to answer the unanswered posts first, but like most of us we are not here 24/7, so when I do answer, in these cases, I try to explain why no one has answered, or at least recognize to the poster, that I see no one has been around to help. I have seen other members do this.. Easy
Wrong Answers This one can get you in trouble. Mod's are expected to chime in, if it looks like the answer may do some harm, or is completely off-base. In the past this has been done by both mod's and members very rudely...Member goes away
Answer is a Link. Member did not come here to be told here is a link. Hell, the member could of searched and probably found that link. -Member goes away - Links are very useful, I use them all the time, however, you must show relevance to the link and explain why that link may help..
Rudeness, we are all human and can take something said many different ways. Most members and mod's are polite, some haven't been. How you deal with a Rude Member, obviously, depends on the situation. Mod's are sometimes referee's.
Has the hammer come down on these member's too quickly? Probably. Has emotionalism played a part in the hammer? Probably, can that be fixed? YES, we have already started that.
I will tell you that when I first started to Mod at VRDR, we had a different admin's. They did not participate, and quite frankly, the forum's were just a small part of their duties, and most of the time were overlooked. This is not the case today as you can see.
As many of you have said the membership here at VRDR is declining, new membership is declining, not at an alarming rate, but one that is of concern. I like many have been frustrated, as many of these discussions (although private) have started and then faded away with no conclusions or actions taken.
Do I have any answer's NO, although I will say if any of the thoughts, suggestions in this thread Just Fade Away then this has been a BIG WASTE OF TIME. I've said enough for now, but will summarize my thoughts, for what it is worth. In my opinion Being Blunt what needs to happen at VRDR to increase and sustain membership;
1. Moderators must get more Pro-Active in trying to settle disputes, rudeness, and controlling the board, rather then bringing down the hammer too quickly. - This has already been discussed, amongst ourselves at length.
2. Search engines need fixed so VRDR is at least on the first page - software may fix this
3. Discussions like this, whether in a forum .or in our private mod forum, must have conclusions, recommendations, and actions on these recommendations, not just fade away.
4. We all must continue to solicit those individuals with the knowledge to help, to help. And we must all be Polite in correcting someone that may of given wrong advice or misled a poster.
We must continually seek members thoughts on improvement - in all my years here this is the 1st time, that I can remember, this has happened.
And finally, yes finally This thread is getting long and some of the content is getting lost and too repetitious. As mentioned Greengoose is trying to summarize the fine points. Once this is done, then these should be presented to ADMIN, with recommendations to make this site more appealing, inviting and bring VRDR back to where it was several years ago.
And thatttts alll folksss.
To my shame, I have just discovered this thread, but to my credit I too have read all 17 pages.
While I very much want to contribute to the continuing success of VDr I can`t think of much original to add. Most of my opinions have already been aired but I do not want to be classed in the “apathy” category, so to follow the boss`s orders and at the risk of repetition here are my thoughts.
I`m a relative newcomer and do not understand the references to how the posts and discussions used to be more interesting and challenging. Actually, reading this thread has “burst my bubble” and left me reeling. I had no idea there was discontent in our ranks, rather I thought the forums were doing a good job in helping people as most of them had their problems solved. Of course I have no experience of how it used to be and accept your judgement on the deterioration.
Type specific questions in and the same handful of forums are returned every time, none of them being VDr although I know for a fact that the answers could be found here. Showing my ignorance here, but if Google can find the others, why can`t it ever find VDr?
Is it possible to get VDr listed in help articles in the most popular PC magazines? I have no idea how you would do that but I remember when I was just starting out with computers I used to buy lots of these mags and check out all the help sites.
It is the same with every service/business. You have to advertise to get customers otherwise they will not know you exist. Similarly in every business, the customer base is always changing. Some come and some go. We will always have people leaving and must find a way to be more visible on the search engines to replace them. I`m sure this will help.
Variety
Yes we need more variety in instruction at all levels. If you are looking to attract newbies, perhaps a forum dedicated to tutorials. I personally have found that a tutorial is the best way to learn something new rather than asking a question here and there. It is so much easier to have the whole process explained in simple terms in one article. There are experts on so many subjects. Why can they not produce a series of articles entitled “How to………” or similar heading calculated to produce lots of hits on search engines and bring people to the site? You know what I mean……..the titles would be simple and only contain words which searchers might use. The title is all important.
Posts
I have noticed they are fewer in number these days too. I agree that there is a lot more competition around for VDr so I hope that better search results might help.
Other Forums
I too visit other forums (some only once) but VDr is my favourite for many reasons, among which are
It is suitable for all ages. On some forums the language is deplorable with insults flying back and forth
I lurk on one very knowledgeable forum but there is a clique of long-standing members which often starts discussing the topic among themselves and the poor questioner gets forgotten. Never have seen that happen here.
No one is ever talked down or made to feel stupid.
I was just about to post when I saw Murf`s post and would add my agreement with some of his points.
Especially
No answer's to post
Taking to long to get an answer
Only answer is a link to a MS KB or another site. I have noticed some people do not like this.
When all the ideas are stirred together in the pot, I hope you end up with a recipe for success.
I would hate to lose what is for me the best overall forum around.
Elaine
As has been mentioned above, SE's have trouble with dynamic links, which all the thread links are, but there is a resolution in the newest versions of this software, which we'll be upgrading to within 2 weeks time. That should greatly improve SE rankings.
SE = Search Engines
I moderate at one of those other forums. Many of the mods there and many members are also members here at VDr. Even the site Admin/owner is registered here. I don't believe any of us consider VDr. a "rival" site - there's certainly no 'competition'.
I've been a member here for a few years, and used to post here a lot more often. As time went by, I saw petty arguing amongst members here happen a little too often. As BJ says, 'we're only here to help'. This is a tech-help forum. People come here (initially, at least) for help in fixing something that is a little beyond their knowledge at the moment. When that help is offered, in a friendly and understandable manner, that's it. The job is done, and likely that person will return again....and again, and again.
After not being made to feel very welcome here several times, I simply stopped posting here. I still stop by to read now and again, but as has been mentioned there are other sites that have a different 'feel' to them. Some are appealing to me, and some I visit once. But they're all different, in one way or another - I don't consider any of them 'competition' against another. Moderators from both here and CyberTechHelp moderate together on yet another board. Great! Any free, knowledgable help that's offered is a good thing. Members will go where they feel most comfortable, or where they think they'll get the answers they need in a timely fashion.
So I still enjoy VDr., and think it has a lot of good qualities - and a lot of great/talented members. And I respect many of the folks here. Still a lot of excellent help here, but it's not the friendly place it used to be.
Hey zipulrich, good to see you chime in... I'm also registered "over there" ... don't spend a great deal of time there. Not unlike many of us I'm registered at quite a few sites... many of "the others" are very specific in nature. The solutions I search for dictate where I go more so than any other thing. Yet, I still call VDr home...
And competition truely does not enter into it... more about making us a better place. Murf made some excellent points... and oddly enough, shortly after I read his post I was looking at another thread. One response, which was rather curt and gave no help to the poster... I see the problem.
In many respects it's an evolutionary thing... member levels, in terms of time invested. Those that have been around for a while will stray, for whatever reason.
That is not a problem, when there is nobody to pick up the slack... that's a problem. Those that lurk, as I once did, look at the posts or experience them first hand. The thread I mentioned above showed me a poster that will not be back... and the member who posted the first answer is not really helping matters and is not needed here. The third post was mine... but doubt if I'll see an answer to it from the original poster.
It's a "community" here, thus... the Mods set the tone but the members do so too. Seems there has been a break in the evolutionary chain. Some just don't get the fact that the "ties that bind" are formed very early.
It's about the people and there are too many here that I'm not ready to give up on. It's not about long-timers or short-timers being bored... it's about those that ARE here, and giving them some proper assistance. Even if you can't answer the question, simply say hey, provide a bit of comradarie... good lord have a bit of fun.
We'll see where we evolve now won't we.