The search engine issue will be greatly improved by the upgrade, which is about a week and change away. Contrary to popular belief, meta tag keywords are not rhe primary search area of spiders. The page <title> and visible content on the page, actually come 1st and 2nd.
I think he's more active on CTH forum he's a moderator on at least 4 forums there.Quote:
Originally posted by BIG JOHN
smurfy retired his mod position a couple of months ago, he is fine, see him here in the early morning hours once in awhile. BJ
Actually if you go to http://www.cybertechhelp.com/forums/ and then look at the moderators on some of those forums you'll see at least 7 people who used to contribute here on a very regular basis.
Gets back to the question of what are they or any other site doing right that VDr is not ?
In smurfs case he just felt he did not have the time to mod here because of other commitments, about the others, I dont know. BJ
That, Nix, seems to be the 64 dollar question that needs to be answered. Or did VirtDr do or not do what needed to be done to expand the active membership?Quote:
Originally posted by Nix
Gets back to the question of what are they or any other site doing right that VDr is not ?
And why DrMDJ started this thread in the first place.
Wondering why we haven't heard from all the mods. I mean, we are trying to get as many opinions as possible, so why aren't we hearing from all the mods? I think its important that mods be a personal example to all users. No one should sit out on this one, especially mods.
I have to admit (I'm not saying there has not been some good input on the subject) that I am still not comfortable that we have gotten to the heart of this/these type issues. I personally do not believe that vboard software or the look or feel of this board is anything other than a minor issue when it comes to gettting users (not the new ones) engaged here, engaged more here, back here, back here more again. The catch 22 in flushing these things out though is that members that fall in to this category (have the actual answers) are not really speaking up. It is very difficult to be certain what problems need addressing, what actionable items there might be and that would be productive implementing, etc. unless you can get a sufficiently representative sampling of input. Minds can't be read, speculation does not provide firm ground to act on, and extrapolating the views of too small a number of people is inappropriate.Quote:
Gets back to the question of what are they or any other site doing right that VDr is not ?
Some thoughts/notions/questions that occur to me in regard to the people that fall in to the category I am expressing concern about (note: I am not criticizing anyone for any feelings they have)... Are they so disillusioned, angry, fed up that they just flat out don't care about (or care enough about) anything here anymore? Have they made their break (so to speak), clean or partial, and that's that? If there are wounds, are they just too deep to be healed? Do people feel like they have spoken up before (maybe many times) and come away empty handed, and therefore they aren't gonna beat their head against the wall again (what's the use, nothing's gonna change, ...)? Is it that they just don't want (for what ever reason) to say their piece without it being anonymous? Or is it that they just don't feel anything is wrong or needs changing (even though they have been asked to speak up and say that).
Likely any of the above apply to various people. Very troubling indeed no matter what the reasons.
That's IT!! Ever since I registered at VDR I have been asking myself the question "Why do I like it here and why do I feel so comfortable?"! I have always suspected it had to do with my stupidity, but I wasn't sure! My quest is ended! Eureka!Quote:
Originally posted by user595212
I think a big part of the point here at Virtual Dr is feeling comfortable to be stupid. :D
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
:D :D :D :D :D :D ;)
I have found here and on other forum sites if you simply try to go off-topic it attracts all the mods to your thread. Try that.Quote:
Originally posted by usil
Wondering why we haven't heard from all the mods. I mean, we are trying to get as many opinions as possible, so why aren't we hearing from all the mods? I think its important that mods be a personal example to all users. No one should sit out on this one, especially mods.
;) :D
*Ahem!*...Uh....OK....back to business.
Like flies to honey. :D :D
Sorta miss those bygone days too. With all we accomplished, it needed and was broken up with a little levity which I think drew those members closer together. All were respected but could voice there opinion even though someone else might not agree. And seemed like we always found the answers too. Never was there a worry or concern that you asked something dumb. I mean we did but we weren't belittled, but there were all levels of experience working together and those of us not knowing as much as the more experienced members benifited greatly. It gave us the start needed to be successful at whatever we were doing or would attempt to do. And this results in my present feelings for VirDr. Reading this thread makes me realize even more that there are others that feel the same way.
And it all starts with one and builds and builds.
Probably because ALL the mods are just regular ol human beings and don't have all the answers either :eek:Quote:
Originally posted by usil
Wondering why we haven't heard from all the mods.
One of Doc's original opening statements: "In a nutshell: there seems to be a quite clear cut and severe problem (or series of problems) here at vdr. As a long term member it became apparent quite some time ago (as in a couple years or more) that this forum was beginning a slow bleed."
I post here and seven other sites daily and have been doing so for going on nine years. I moderate at a three counting here and I administer one of VDR’s sister sites. I guess I could say I’ve noticed a bit of decline in activity but it’s been across all message boards.
Each and every site has its own personality and feel about it. VDR, by far, has the oldest age per capita membership of all the boards I visit. This is one of the reasons why I’m here. By contrast, another board I visit has the youngest crowd of people. I pop in and knock out a few problems and move on having no desire to chat with anyone about anything..
I know of three or four popular message boards staffed by people I’ve met on the internet. I’ve never joined these sites for the simple fact that I have my EIGHT favorite places I visit and there aren’t hours in the day to visit anymore.
A couple of things I think that have contributed to the “slow bleed” as Doc calls it:
- 1. A TON of new tech sites just this one have sprung up in the past several years. These sites are generally started by long term members of sites like VDR.
- 2. Solutions to technical problems are getting more and more automated. I’m tying these thoughts in MS Word. If I have a question about Word, I can click on the help button and get whisked out into cyber space and in all likelihood->FIND A SOLUTION to my
- 3. A typical-medium-level-user can/should be able to find a solution on their own problem in less time than it takes to post the question on a message board.
- 4. And there’s the thing called Google. Go to Google.com and type in stop: 0x8e and you’ll see what I mean….
Maybe everyone could do a signature like my new one. Makes sense to me;)
Bummers Wendy, shift work and insomnia... not a good combo. Good luck with napping then!Quote:
Originally posted by user595212
Hey Abhoth, what can I say. I work nights! Then I can't sleep.
:cool:
And the more I read this thread the more I think like SRJ... all things change and Virtual Dr. is no different, nor immune.
We all get lives, or have them... we all move on to other things or kids happen!
To be certain there is always room for improvement, but I'm not at all certain thins are all that bad. Then again, maybe I'm out of the loop... if so, good! ;-)
It's been an excellent thread either way, we've all learned a bit about one another and that's a good thing. o.k., maybe not. 'Cause now when Wendy is being twitchy about something I'll be asking her if she's had enough sleep! I'd like to buy Nix a Fosters and argue about things. And then there's Bistro, no room for ruminations on that one! ;-)
Oh yeah... check this out.
[edit] I could tell them about VDr. Steve, another method is to charge them... which is my preferred method! [/edit]
I want to thank DrMDJ for starting this thread.
Altho I've been a sporadic poster, and more of a lurker, I felt the atmosphere was different here after being absent for a while, and couldn't put my finger on what was going on????.......and this thread has got to be one of the best things to happen to VDR in many a moon......and I hope all the good vibes that are coming out of this thread, pervade VDR for a long time.
Abhoth
I just bought a ticket so make room in that raft...:rolleyes:
....btw some nice ideas on your site....hope some JM folks check it out.
poppy
Usil-"Wondering why we haven't heard from all the mods. "
Steve- "Probably because ALL the mods are just regular ol human beings and don't have all the answers either"
And some, like myself, if they've already seen what they're thinking said by someone else, more than once, may prefer to simply keep quiet until they have something non-repetative to say and not just chime in to hear their own gums flapping. :)
Actually I do have one point to make and I'll do it quickly before I head off to work.
I think that some of us may be underestimating, if it does what it's supposed to do re: search engines, what kind of effect the upgrade is going to have on our traffic.
There was one thread about 5 or 6 months ago, just before we created the hijackthis forum that for whatever reason got into the top position in a google search for a specific browser hijacker.
It garnered around 30,000 hits in just a few days. Compare that to the average VRDR thread that lasts weeks.
Of course that doesn't mean anything regarding or relating to some of the issues brought up about quality of posts and how members feel they're treated once they're here but I fully expect things to change a lot in a couple of weeks and a lot of us are going to be very busy.
A sentiment that likely is felt by more than just you Fink. However, I would only say (as I have previously) that people are encouraged to not, should not, look at things this way. It is important not only having particular issues/ideas/suggestions/etc articlulated, but also to be able to get as good an indication as possible as to how many people feel/think that way. The more people that actually say "yay or nay" here the more confidence we can have in terms of the conclusions we draw and the correctness and (potential) value of any actions/changes that mght be undertaken. The less inferring and/or extrapolating that needs to be done the better.Quote:
And some, like myself, if they've already seen what they're thinking said by someone else, more than once, may prefer to simply keep quiet until they have something non-repetative to say and not just chime in to hear their own gums flapping.
So it's not just a matter of having original ideas/thoughts/suggestions. "Votes" are just as important.
In regard to your comment fink about underestimating the vboard/search-engine stuff... I (for one) am not underestimating or diminishing it's potential value. I am simply saying that a key problem I feel this site has (has been having) is loss of members, members spending less time here, members going elsewhere, members participating less here, etc, etc. And I don't feel these things will be addressed or addressed adequately (if they can be addressed at all) by any of the search engine related stuff.
Absolutely. But my point/issue is not simply that there has been change here, people have come and gone, etc. What I am saying I see is that the changes/impact/manifestations (or many of them) here at VDR are above normal, above what I see elsewhere. In the statistics of it, I think vdr is an outlier (and not on the plus side).Quote:
And the more I read this thread the more I think like SRJ... all things change and Virtual Dr. is no different, nor immune.
I understand fully (and accept) that there are reasons vdr is not the way it was, that some people aren't here as much, aren't here any more period, etc. I understand that there are reasons for things that have happen here that there is no changing, no solution for, etc.
However... I know, and others have brought it out here, that there are members who have gone to other sites, who are spending more time at other sites, etc. OK, why? Forget about whatever quantity of time they spend at sites, now or historically. Why are they at these other sites, why are they spending the time they are at other sites? If they are spending time anywhere why isn't it vdr, or why did it stop being vdr? I would find it hard to believe it is simply a matter of them needing basic variety in their lives. Where ever they go and however much time they spend there there is a reason. And basic logic would dictate that if they aren't at vdr (but somewhere else) then there must be something they aren't getting from vdr, don't like about vdr, etc (relatively or in absolute terms). This is not the class of people who are not spending time anywhere, not using help sites, solving their own problems, using Google. These are people who just aren't using "this" help site, or using it less. As has been said (and I see it too) there are quite a number of current and former vdr memberrs who haven't simply vanished from the internet or help site landscape. They are out there. It's that they aren't here, aren't here as much. If these people can be attracted back, attracted back here more then this site benefits, its members benefit. And and even if they can't (for what ever reason), knowing the underlying reasons for their exit, change in behavioir is still beneficial as we may be able to prevent further exits and participation cutbacks moving forward. People have talked about there being more competition out there. Yes there is. And I am seeing signs that we are loosing. People have said that (relatively) speaking we are doing "OK". Maybe so, but is there no benefit to doing more than "OK"? To the members, to vdr as a help site.
There may be more competition, members/former-members may be spending less time on sites such as this in general, they may be more self sufficient, they may have Google, technology may be more reliable... But they still have problems, they still are using and spending some measure of time at help sites, other help sites. In sizeable numbers.
And one last thing, relating to what people are doing, other sites, competition, how we are fairing, etc... If I look around at just about any given time at various (what I see as similar, competing) sites I see far more, or at least relatively more (factoring membership size), people (members or guests) online, hanging out. Far too often our numbers pale in comparison. Sites with the same, more or less membership than vdr. And it is also quite common to see their number of active or new threads exceed ours, sometimes significantly. So I see definate evidence that in absolute and/or relative terms we are not fairing well. Are any of these numbers down from what they use to be at these places. I don't know, and I don't care. But what I see is that in what ever the enviroment is today we aren't matching up very well.
As I said in an earlier post, I have been keeping a close eye on the numbers from several sites, some Jupitermedia, and some non-Jupitermedia. I've been doing it for several months and I have them all in a nice Excel spreadsheet that I did. There is absolutely no doubt at all that what the Doc says about numbers online is absolutely true. Even sites with one fifth of our membership can have 30 times the numbers online that we typically get. And the one thing in common is that all those sites are running Vbulletin3 - all the sites running Vbulletin2 like us, have terrible online numbers, though www.sysopt.com bucks that trend a bit.
Now, on any site that I ever visit, whether to lurk or to post, one thing is always consistent, and that is that there are a lot of questions from new members. If we were getting 100 new members a day, and that is half of what some sites are getting, our average number of posts per thread is 5. So if only 75% of those new members actually posted a question, that would give us something like another 375 posts per day. And that, I might add, on top of our existing daily posts would be entirely consistent with, or even better than, other sites who are getting that kind of membership increase.
The $64,000 question, is would that increase in posts start bringing members back from other sites? It may be nothing more than people simply going where the action is, and the action sure hasn't been here for a while. I really hope that is the problem. If it isn't, if there is some more fundamental underlying proiblem with VDr, please, please speak out folks. Anything can be fixed, if we have an understanding of what needs fixing.
There is one site out there, TSG, that kicks every other site's backside. They have an average of 2,800 posts per day. I've looked and I've looked, and I can't see what they do differently to us, it's the same questions there as here. The big difference though, is that whatever search term is used, and in whatever search engine, there they are at the top. That's the power of top ranking these days. I'm not for one minute trying to suggest that there might not be other problems with VDr, but neither should we underestimate the importance of people simply being able to find this site.