Virtual Dr. seems more than a little sick: "Member Participation Issues"

A couple questions...

It has been said that other Jupiter sites had been upgraded (board software) prior to VDR. Is there any hard (even preliminary) data showing what the post upgrade effect has been on those sites in terms of additional traffic and users? Not that there might be perfect correlation in the data, but it would be a data point.

And... Without anyone giving away any trade secrets or such, given that we have mods and members here that are mods at other sites similar to vdr, can any of these people offer up any results data on what these other sites might have seen when they switched board software (whenever that was) or what these other sites might feel is the bounty they are reaping from the search engine related stuff? Like I say, in broad strokes.

I joined your ranks last October and have benefitted from practically instant responses which solved my problems. I have gained a tremendous amount of knowledge from reading the various sections, and have been able to help others through the latter. At every opportunity, I have passed on the message re this website. Dr.MDJ asked where were the many who used to frequent vdr - through personal reasons, I have been one of those missing, but am now back again. Good luck with this initiative.

Doc, I'd have to look into that myself to give you an answer. I can, though, and I will. I can compare membership and post totals for the past yr on a month by month basis.

Geoff, thank you for the good wishes and WELCOME BACK! I'm Joe, by the way. :)

Just a curoisity there Joe, but something that might provide some useful info. If nothing else it may be another data point to help assess what our expectations may be in terms of the effects, whether our current ones are too high or too low, and in some respects a "gauge" to be used in terms of assessing whether what we actually do see is "in line".

And Geoffrey... What ever the reasons you were gone, glad to have you back (and inputting here)!

I can tell you this though, if you search for visual basic forums, vbforums comes up 1st and that site was upgraded to 3 about 5 months ago. To see a difference in ranking does take time.

Fine, but what I am most interested in is data relating to actual benefits received by the site(s). After all, it don't matter if you are number one in the search hit list if it doesn't (or can't be expected to) generate appreciable traffic and membership for ya. It's good that the new software may raise us in the search hits standings, but we ultimately need it to do more than that.

Well that'll maximize traffic coming to the site. Whether or not we keep them is up to us. But I'll check vb's post traffic. Soon as I'm done indexing this one so the search will work.

Welcome back, Geoffrey, hope all is well now in real life :)

I think I'm about to blabber on, so ignore me if you feel inclined. Find this search stuff getting more intriguing. (Don't want to beat a dead horse, I sense we are being told by JPNYC "patience, grasshoppers". :) )

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Originally Posted by Nix

what terms did you use to search ?
PC Help Forums got us 2nd on the first Google page and
Computer Help Forums has us 4th on the second page of Google

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I reversed the situation and put myself in the shoes of family/friends I know who don't know/care much about computers, just want it fixed when it's broken. Used terms they use when referring to their machine. So I googled computer help and computer help forum (that second is by coincidence the singular form of Nix's, and ranked middle of page 3). Purposely left the word "tech" out because newbie/non-tech folks I've run across don't use that term. My newbie friends/family also rarely to never use the phrase "PC" when referring to their machine. It's always "computer". As in "my computer's broken... ;) One of the issues I see is that I lot of people I know who use computers for "fun" stuff don't know how to really utilize search engines using effective terms. But sounds like the new software will help fill that gap?

Thanks for the Search Engine Watch link, Joe. That's worth a bookmark. What follows is offered up in ignorance and out of desire to learn. I learned about this tool last year. Hope it's not a dinosaur already. Don't know how relevant it is with the more sophisticated software being used. WordTracker. Free trial that can be used repeatedly (free limits analysis to MSN, subscription gets you all major search engine comparison/analysis). Still, it's a good way to get a feel for keyword effectiveness. WordTracker utilizes the KEI (Keyword Effectiveness Index), explanation of KEI found here, Final results (Step 4) gives KEI analysis, Count (number of times a keyword/term has appeared in their database), the predicted daily traffic searching your keyword/term, and number of competing web sites using your keyword/term. It's seems involved, but really just takes getting used to playing with words, results can be very enlightening. FWIW, both my search terms above got very poor ranking there. So I tested "computer tech support" and "free computer tech support". Both those got poor ranking as well.

Interesting, tho. A contradiction of WordTracker. When I googled "computer help forum", our friends at CTH came in as the 5th hit. Looking at their html code, their first two keywords phrases are "computer help" & "free computer help", and they're also using newer version of VBulletin. Now I'm curious and want to learn what's making this tick. If WordTracker analyzes those as poor terms, is it then 1) the indexing software that's getting our CTH friends the high rank, 2) or a combination of the updated software and keywords that bumps 'em up so high or 3) wordtracker ain't worth diddly?

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Well that'll maximize traffic coming to the site.

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So are you saying that you have seen the higher ranking produce the traffic in to the site, or just that it should have that effect? If the later then until it does...

KatMac,

Joe is right. We can not expect instant results. I approach this from a very basic standpoint: it (this whole stuff related to getting the search engine ratings up) can only help. In the worst case it will not hurt a thing. From there its all gravy. I maintain that it is in no way the answer to all our prayers/needs, but... It is a piece of the puzzle/equation. My one concern is that some people might be inclinded to put all there eggs in this basket simple because it is the simplest/least-effort/least-thought thing to do (except for JP of course).

The "terms" from both sides of the search engine picture are always the key. All you can do is try on this side of things to maybe anticipate some things. But no matter how good you do it, a person searching can (and will) always come up with some terms/words/phrases that may not produce vdr as a result.

Hey there Doc,
No instantaneous results expected. ;) And I couldn't agree more, the seach rank is just part of the puzzle, as well as layout, content, attitudes & behaviors. The search issue I find intriguing, but suppose the mechanics of it could be delved into deeper in a different forum. At any rate, bottom line is keep the regulars happy and coming back, address what they have expressed as issues, and ultimatley that will surely have positive impact throughout the entire membership roster; new, semi-regular or core 'always here' members. ~Kat

The search issue will be fixed today. I'm currently doing it.

Joe will obviously come up with much better figures than me. But as I mentioned before, I have been keeping an eye on various forums, including VBForums (as I'm a member over there too). VBForums was already the number one in search engine rankings when they were running Vbulletin2, and even so, the effect was very noticeable. Within 2 weeks of the upgrade to Vbulletin3 the numbers on line started to ramp up markedly, and the number of new members joining have on average doubled since the upgrade. And I suspect that site had the least to gain from the upgrade of all JM's sites, they were buzzing along very nicely anyway.

Well if vdr can capture even far less benefit than that it will be very good indeed.

Is that ALL you are interested in is haveing VDR in Top of the Search Engines...
Because that is what it is all sounding and looking to me...Being at the top won't mean VDR being the Best or getting more Members......I for ONE Do NOT like your Very Large ADVERT at the Top Right...I also Don't like Reading that you are thinking of putting in more Adverts underneath that Monstrocity that's already there...
The way you have this Board with All Messages on the Left is just causeing me to Scroll further n further down the page in order to read them all....Waste of Time and space....I prefer to Read Left to Right as it was!!The Length of the Page..As you see it whilst typeing in "Reply to Thread"...
So you now have another Forum that's Become like ALL others with No Individual Identity.....
I for One Do NOT Like Your Changes......

I have to agree with scarecrowdr on the space issue. Once you get below the huge HP ad, that's a lot of wasted (table/frame?) space.

We have no plans to put more ads below that. When I said we might add some more content, I didn't mean ads. I meant maybe an RSS feed, or something .

This thread is about increasing member participation but from reading the posts since the upgrade we seem to have added some issues from the upgrade that now affect continuing member participation. These are not issues that can be swept under a rug and they will go away. But working together we should get it all straightened out. Those of you that are checking the functions, appearance, and commenting on the results and observations save JPNYC time. He on the other hand is working to correct the glitches and needs time to accomplish that. :)

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Originally Posted by scarecrowdr

Is that ALL you are interested in is haveing VDR in Top of the Search Engines...

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Not to worry (I hope) there scarecrowdr. This is just one thing, one issue. And one step in a bigger picture.

Again, I have to agree with greengoose1. (I guess I'm in an agreeable mood tonight. ;>) ) The issue originally posted is being detracted from. Perhaps a new thread on the new format where members can express themselves?

I know I'm a low one on the totem pole but....

Yes Dan, issues in this thread have been a bit distracted from in the last couple days. The search engine and board software was however something talked about here at various time, so it is not totally out of place to see some of the things that have been said now come out here now that the upgrade is done. I do agree with you0 though that any more involved discussion involving the search engine stuff should probably happen (be continued) in a thread other than this one.

PS. If you feel like breaking your trend, feel free to disagree with me on this post. :D

I wanted to use the quote button to quote Dan Penny, but it was mysteriously gone.
Anyway Dan, you can vent about the new version here:
http://discussions.virtualdr.com/sho...141#post929141

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Originally Posted by Dan Penny

I know I'm a low one on the totem pole but....

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Not possible! This is a horizontal totem pole around here ;) :D

I'll go a step further: there is no totem pole ;)

I think that all of the discussion needs to be in this thread. But I also think that it will take a couple of weeks for everything to sort itself out and we all need to be patient. I think Joe and everyone at Jupiter appreciate our comments but we have to allow them time to sort everything out.

Personally, I like the new appearance and I like the Quick Reply at the bottom of the page. Like everyone else, I hate to see all of the wasted space on the right hand side.

Good job Joe.

Cheers,

Linda

Thank you Linda. :)

Joe,

Is it possible to retain the search format, which was in the last version of the software. The search capability is very limited.

The prior format allowed users to do a multi-layer search by poster, within a specific time frame or by topic. This capability was a major asset for the VDR website, because anyone could find something quickly.

Cheers,

Linda

No, but the search is being indexed. Has been since 5am. There are nearly a million posts to index, so it's taken all day. Once that's done, the search will be fine. It's already better than it was earlier. By the way, there's an advanced search link on the search popup window.

Is it being indexed by all of the following:

date

Poster's name

all substantive words in content; i.e., no "a", "the", etc.

Linda

Yep, as far as I know, it is. That's why it takes a whole day.

When I search for posts by nix, train or anyone with a high post count it only brings back 500 threads ??

Will that be corrected ?

Is there a way to bring back more ??

Even if I click on my id and click Find all posts by Nix it only brings back 500 threads.

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Originally Posted by LindaHewitt

I think that all of the discussion needs to be in this thread. But I also think that it will take a couple of weeks for everything to sort itself out and we all need to be patient.

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Linda, I really do feel that the discussions about such things as the indexing, keywords, tweaking in this area and such are outside the bounds of this thread now. That all has moved in to a post-implementation phase, where the dotting of "I"s and crossing of "T"s is needed. I think there could end up being a lot of discussion on that that could consume, monopolize, even curtail the ongoing broad flow of this thread. I just believe that while the issue of the need for and methods to address search engine problems was appropriate for this thread, honing/tweaking issues are not.

Of course as I have made clear, this is not "my" thread. So if my view does not match the more general one...

There are to my mind two main topics of concern. First is member participation and second is the upgrade which has started multiple threads in this forum.

LindaHewitt--If you right click on Search and then Open (or Open in New Window) you will get the old Search window. Same for New Posts. Just left clicking will give you very limited and incomplete results.

Thanks WelshJim. I appreciate your help.

Linda

OK To Iterate (i think)! a little....I do like the layout, (it's growing on me).
i Like the Quick Reply, that's GOOD..I Do Not Like the Wasted space on the Right...Would be nice if that Advert was at Top or Intergrated so we get the Threads Full Length of page..(or nearly so)....
Not Sure if we got a different Thread for these sugestions, if So my appoligies...Will go n check now.....
Keep Up the GOOD Work, But PLEASE Do Not lose VDRs Identity on the way...
Take Care...

Hi scarecrowdr...check it out..

http://discussions.virtualdr.com/sho...d.php?t=184340
..:):)

I have not checked in for several months now mainly due to working 2 days a week, I'm retired but like the extra spending money that I get for hobbies. I also notice a change both in the responces and in the site layout itself. I hope the problems can be corrected and get more search help from google and others.

Myself, I like vdr much better than the other sites. I have gotten more help here when I needed it, and I do need help from time to time. Let's get the fixes in place soon. :D


thanks to all ..

cheers mac

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greengoose1

There are to my mind two main topics of concern. First is member participation and second is the upgrade which has started multiple threads in this forum.

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This might go over like a lead balloon, but to keep the issues on track since it's meandering so much, perhaps continue this in two new threads?
Virtual Dr. seems more than a little sick: Member Participation Issues
Virtual Dr. seems more than a little sick : Technical Issues

-OR-

Have a mod reword the title of this one to "Virtual Dr. seems more than a little sick: Member Participation Issues"

Or something along those lines? Just a thought...


EDIT: Sheesh, that happened at lightening fast speed. Thought I was hallucinating for a second :D