butter aka booter partition and setup routines

Hi,

what seems like two eons ago, early versions of "butter" saw first light.
A strange name perhaps. :)
Anyway, there are things mentioned in this thread that may be of help.

butter originally was mainly about bootdisk creation, but just like things go in this world, it went beyond.

for instance;

• When people cannot/SHOULD NOT boot from CDROM
  and/or
  have no boot disk that supports their CDROM-drive.
  (Cannot... can mean BIOS does not have the option, or CDROM is connected on a controller one cannot boot from... Should not, can mean when one shouldn't run setup while booting from CDROM, which is the case when they need an overlay)
  
• Or;
  When people have no "specialist third party" utility to partition/repartition.
  
• Or;
  When people need a virus free booter.
  Please, DO create your rescue disks...
  
• Or;
  you got "cannot copy to C:" error
  you got "invalid media, disk needs to be formatted" error.
  
• HP, Compaq, and Packard Bell get mentioned too
  
• or.....
  
• last edits dual boot setup gets brief mention
  

btw, I'll often say boot floppy or booter. All of them can be called "system disk". The various bootable floppy disks have disimilarities. One could wonder "what's in a name?", but, it's not just for semantics.

_____________________________________________

this is what butter was originally about.

BOOT DISK CREATION,
(RE)-PARTITIONING using FDISK
and SETUP procedures.
.............................................

When one needs a "start disk", this first method to create one is most widely known.
However, I'd like to mention that when you want to create it, you got to have a working computer, and even more IMPORTANT, it's has to be free of VIRUS.
Therefore, and first of all, again scan the PC for viruses using a RECENTLY updated antivirus tool.
Then create a bootable floppy on your known good PC.
CONTROL PANEL > SOFTWARE > START DISK > CREATE
In most cases, this floppy will support your cdrom reader.
I call it a setup floppy (w/i the booter that creates a ramdrive....)
it's much more advanced than the setup floppy that came with an OEM win95.

If you are sure this computer is free of virus, I recommend you copy
C:\windows\smartdrv.exe and C:\windows\command\diskcopy.com
to that floppy.

******

Creating it from "control panel" may not work!
Yes, I saw some systems fail making one.... When it happens, chances are this was caused by an option chosen during windows setup, and thus your \command\ebd\ folder is missing in windows.
Anyway, you can perhaps make an EBD (emergency boot disk) straight from CDROM.
How ?
Pop your original windows CD in, hold shift so it won't load, open
explorer & navigate to tools\mtsutil\fat32ebd\fat32ebd.exe
(You probably won't find this on a RESTORE cdrom)
Pop in a new floppy, and run fat32ebd.exe
Strange as it may sound, it has a slightly different content than the one made from control panel in windows.
This EBD has a lot going for it.
Primo; It got made from virus free media.
Secundo; it does not create a RAMdrive at boot, which eliminates driveletter confusion.
tertio; it supports all them CDROMs the normal start disk does.
The EBD is the booter I prefer.
If you are sure this computer is free of virus, and sure it runs the SAME version of windows than the CDROM you just created this EBD from, I would suggest you copy

C:\windows\smartdrv.exe
C:\windows\scanreg.ini
C:\windows\command\scanreg.exe
C:\windows\command\chkdsk.exe
C:\windows\command\diskcopy.com

to that floppy.

by the way, soon as you can access your windows CDROM, you can run this from DOS too.
And, you can do this on another machine, even if it has another operating system.
the floppy it makes will be the Emergency Boot Disk for the version on the CDROM.
(Remember that, it may save you a lot of trouble.)
for instance; from DOS, run
[cdromdriveletter]:\tools\mtsutil\fat32ebd\fat32ebd.exe

(Well, when you read FAT32EBD.TXT you learn it should make a virus-free floppy. However, when you keep on reading this thread you’ll find yet another method to create a boot floppy, which will make it same version as the windows-CDrom no matter what, and just about GUARANTEES you have NO VIRUS loaded and copied to floppy. However, it requires you have a bootable windows Cdrom, and an upgrade isn’t. also, some machines cannot boot from CDROM, period. I mentioned this method as an afterthought, but there may come a time when you have to make one such floppy.
I think it's good to know all available options for the time you have to make a viral free boot-disk
(For instance, gotta work on an infected machine? NEVER trust the boot floppy/any floppy recently used... you better start cleanup with a clean booter..)

then there are People with a recovery CDROM.
Packard bell or HP, and so on...
Their CD is not an original windows CD.
the makeboot.bat they find on CDrom makes them a recover boot floppy.
this is NOT an EBD.
But, it may very well be their last resource, and they should create it.
(floppies do get damaged/go bad...)

and, they can probably still make a start disk thru option panel even when the system says the files it needs are missing/or when it begs for the windows CD.
In this case, point it to \windows\options\cabs where the creation will then extract the files from the cabinets it finds there (provided this folder is not damaged/wiped)

****** ******

Of course, once you made a booter, you have to test the thing.
Boot from this floppy and see if you can access your cdrom from it.
HOW? It is at A:\> _
(and it also tells you which letter was assigned to cdrom)
For instance; letter given = G: then type DIR G:
In most cases, it shows files and directories on the cdrom.

*****--*****--******--*******
*****--*****--******--*******
SOME PITFALLS AND FOOTANGLES
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
PLEASE NOTE, a boot disk with another version of DOS may cause trouble for Windows SETUP.
Please try stay within same version, ESPECIALLY if you NEED to make C: BOOTABLE.

why?
in some instances IO.SYS is not properly refreshed by setup. http://support.microsoft.com/support.../Q149/1/10.ASP
In light of this; if you have no matching version boot floppy, you can either create a matching version, OR...
during format, simply not use the SYS switch. And, not run SYS command.
This io.sys problem seems to be specific to older DOS versions
(up to and including MsDOS 6.22a)
You should not be using a DOS6.22 booter to prepare your hard disk anyway, since it cannot handle FAT32...

So, if you have a dos 6.22/win95 booter with CDROM support, make that win98 Emergency Boot Disk straight from CDROM. And then use the win98 EBD.
it will have FAT32 support and you are then able to make partitions greater than 2 Gigabyte

(when EBD doesn’t support your old reader, this DOS 6.xx/win95 booter has a propriatary cdrom driver you can copy to win98's EBD, and you can also copy its config.sys and autoexec.bat to the EBD. If you do that right, booting from this floppy will then load the correct driver.)

Determining which windows version you have in use windows Version numbers
You can also determine which windows CDROM version you have, using a working machine...
Just rightclick setup.exe on the CDROM to look up the version number.

Okay, Fdisk has versions, dos 6x and win95 could not handle FAT32
Fat 32 began with win95 OSR2, which started support for larger drives and partitions.
(win95 still does not support drives greater than 32 gigabyte.)

And....there is a limitation in the version present in win98
WHEN YOU WANT TO USE FDISK ON A DRIVE WITH A CAPACITY LARGER THAN 64.8 GIGABYTE, YOU NEED A NEWER VERSION OF FDISK.EXE.
IF your hard drive is larger than 64.8 GIGA, you COPY a newer version of FDISK on this floppy first.
see Microsoft article on issues with Fdisk over 64 giga, where you can download and install it
You can even do this on a puter with smaller drive.
( if you want to retain the original on this machine, FIRST save the old FDISK.EXE, then install ) http://support.microsoft.com/support.../q263/0/44.asp
installing this update will replace fdisk.exe in windows\command and in \windows\options, but not in \command\EBD folder.
Because of this, when you make a floppy from control panel it will NOT have the newer fdisk, so you still need COPY the NEW version of fdisk found in \COMMAND\ over the one on FLOPPY.

and then make a diskcopy (have you found out how useful diskcopy on floppy really is yet?)

* * * * * *

there is at least one more possible pitfall

1; what if you have OVERLAY software;
Overlay is used to overcome a BIOS drive size limit.
When you're machine BIOS is set to first try boot from FLOPPY or CDROM, the overlay is bypassed when you do not load the overlay from hard disk.
Overlay software normally gives you an option to boot from floppy, but does that only after it got the options screen while initiating the bootprocess from HARD-DISK
In other words, if you boot straight from a floppy, you may have bypassed the overlay, and the hard disk may "inexplicably" become invisible to DOS...or show a size of 504MB only...
fdisk not giving you the fat 32 option seems to be a giveaway symptom too...
(there are ways to find out if there was/is an overlay which is discussed later in the thread...But this symptomatic info is needed here as well, since you may want to load the overlay during boot time if your disk uses an overlay.)

And then there are drives [Compaq comes to mind] which need a small partition which will hold their proprietary BIOS and system utilities. I can but suggest you take good care of the restore and rescue diskettes, or make them, and, you should DISKCOPY them...

2; not really what butter was originally about, but...
what if you have been using dual boot, where parts of the drive were formated into another filesystem, like NTFS or linux.

M$-DOS won't see NTFS nor linux.
(there are specialist tools to do it, and some of those i heard about cost an arm and a leg)
win98 fdisk cannot even delete linux partitions.

I've noticed that in dualboot systems -win98/win2000 or XP- where win98 was put on first, if one formats the C: drive, you zap the dual boot option.

we also know that fdisk /mbr kills LILO, and having no bootloader, you risk making the linux partition inaccessible.
and seting up linux can make your windows inaccessible, that's for sure...

what I am driving at here is that you want to prepare for circumstances like these, and should create the system rescue floppies in win2000 and XP (may be one also finds such things in linux)
just do it folks...

nose around in the OS, and/or on the CDs it came on, and you will find the tools to make these disks.

I never used linux.

++++======================================+++
++++======================================+++

RE-PARTITIONING / PARTITIONING
on standard systems
-------------------
FDISK uses a DESTRUCTIVE METHOD, DATA GETS WIPED
doing this while more than one drive is hooked up is a kinda hairy.
You can disconnect the old system drive if you don't want to mistakenly delete or re-partition the wrong drive.

you should not run FDISK from within a DOSBOX in windows.

Another word of warning,
you may think the drive on IDE1 master is system disk C:
This is not always the case.
You have to check this, because windows will set up on the first ACTIVE it finds and can set up on.
(sidenote; in dualboot; if the active partition is NTFS, it will go for another partition).

Before you start partitioning a new disk, consider this;
Whenever you can, you should consider the MANUFACTOR DISK TOOLS.
Some of those they provide at their website can save you a LOT of time.
you can use them on a used disk too, and it will warn you that all data on the drive you work on will get lost.

*******

Knowledge Base >>How to Use the Fdisk Tool and the Format Tool to Partition or Repartition a Hard Disk
Okay, I assume you just read the Knowledge base article,
Well, you'll find I've added a few twists, so as to avoid a few pifalls
*******

*******

this procedure assumes you have more than one hard disk, and you want to use a new disk as C: drive.
I repeat, Doing this while another disk with your data is hooked up can be dangerous to your data.
One can disconnect the old drive if you don't want to mistakenly repartition the wrong drive.....
______________

If one has a second or third hard disk still connected...
One begins, pen and notebloc at the ready...

fdisk /status
fdisk
y
4 (show info on drive one)
esc
5 (option to choose other hard-disk, choose the next number)
4 (info on chosen drive)
esc
5 (I once had as many as six hard-drives in a machine....)
4
und so weiter until you have all the details, and then
esc
esc

Better take notes of the results you saw.
You do NOT want to partition / repartition / format any drive by mistake, so you better LOOK, take notes, and be REAL CAREFUL.
If you hit the wrong option and it asks to delete or create a partition,
hit ESC and ESCAPE out of there.
you really want to take these notes. You see, doing the above, you may find out about overlay and proprietary disk partitions.

Similarly, when you are going to format, you better first run a dir command against the driveletters you intend to format. For instance
dir C: /w /o /p
This way you can look if it really is the drive you want to format.
Once you are sure, you can format C:
Similarly, For drive E:
dir E: /w /o /p
check it out, before you run format E:

Believe me, you better take these extra steps since you do not want to format a hard-drive or partition containing data you want to keep.
_______________

the spiel begins....
----------------
you checked, and know which drive you want to partition, right?
you have started fdisk from REAL MODE DOS, and selected the drive you want...
(drive 1 is default, it may NOT be the one windows is on, since windows will be on/(go onto) the first ACTIVE partition)

You should ALWAYS look which partitions you have, which letters it has and which partition shows an A in it (A for active)
if it shows a non dos partition, the drive may have overlay, linux, or NT (see further in thread).
You ought to know... if you do not know why that non dos partition is there, you will have to find out.
LINK about recognising what some partitions are FOR

Take notes, and REMEMBER that if a non dos partition exists and is active, you most likely DO NOT want to mess with it with FDISK.
If the non-DOS is NOT active, and you want to repartition, you may have to activate the non-DOS to be able to remove another partition, and later on choose primary dos as active.
You do NOT want to leave the NON-DOS active if it wasn't
I ask to check into all this because you cannot delete an active partition while there are other partitions still present on this drive.
You'll also not be able to delete a primary partition while an extended exists on the drive.

Remember about overlay, an overlay needs to load before you pop the floppy in.
(this also means that when Overlay is needed, you should not boot straight from CDROM to do the fdisking..)

Onwards....

the following is menu stuff,
since this is just an example to show you what to look out for, you should use your head, and not always blindly follow these steps.

if you need delete partitions
option 3
from the highest letter we work down to C:
for instance
E: (if it isn't active drive)
esc
3
delete logical drive D: (if it isn't active drive)
esc
3
delete extended partition
esc
3
delete primary DOS partition
esc
esc
do a cold boot (it's quite important you reboot)

again fire up fdisk
y
--(if needed, first select drive)--
4
(it shows you have no partitions? good! If a NON-DOS exists and you know why it is there, don't wipe it)
esc
1
make primary DOS partition
well, here is where you decide how you set it up.
I would say "dont let it use all space" because an extra partition is great to put data and installable files on.
so, don't let it use all space.
then, create extended partition (let it use the rest)
it will say there are no logicals defined
make them (select the the sizes you want, or let it use all space)

* if you had to make NON DOS active to remove PRI-DOS, this is the point you make PRI-DOS active *

when you are finished with partitioning
esc
esc
and again do a cold boot

=============================================

you finished FDISK and have REBOOTED
This newly partitioned drive is set active?

after partitioning,
dir C: /w /o /p (if empty, it will give an error)
format C:
dir D: /w /o /p (if empty, it will give an error. However, if it shows data, you found out why I ask to do that...)
if empty.
format D:

dir E: /w /o /p (Honest, you better check...)
format E: (if you need to)

IMPORTANT, after formating, REBOOT

Now run smartdrv (well, I hope you put it on the disk, it speeds up things)

put windows cdrom in tray, and fire away

D:
md win98
cd win98
copy [cdromdriveletter]:\win98\*.*

(this copies the windows setup files and cabinets to hard drive)

setup

personally, I think it is better to copy the "cabinet" files onto another partition or hard drive.
(Just as long as it is on a hard drive you can access)
to put them on C: you start that sequence with
C:
md win98 etc..

you may have noticed I don't have you do format C: /s
if you can avoid it, don't use the switch.
let windows setup create the system files for you.
(overlay creation tools will ask for a system floppy with the boot system of the windows version you intend to use, and thus C: is made bootable. That's one more case in which you have to make sure the floppy is the correct version.)

Oh, you may need to use an other switch at times.
the unconditional
format C: /u

why?
when the new system you gonna set up is another version of windows than you used before, or when Fdisk version was different than the one it was fdisked with before you started, then you may actually NEED that unconditional switch to clean off the old FAT copies.
It's rare, but it happens. I seen it, and I know the switch still has its meaning.


_____________________________________________
_____________________________________________

"PROBLEM" cdrom readers
-----------------------------------

when EBD/setup floppy cannot read data from CDrom, and there is no proprietary cdromdriver on hard disk
yep, what if the standard win 98 start disk and EBD wont read your old drive..
this usually happens with older cdromdrives, and those connected to a soundcard.

one can try;

cdromgod, a self extracting floppy-image, which has a helluvalot of antique/proprietary drivers;
this link has version 5.5 of cdromgod.
http://www.tweakfiles.com/misc/cdromgod.html

this link has an older cdromgod 5.0, but it also had the ULTIMATE BOOT DISK, which has various utilities, and antivirus...
http://www.cybertechhelp.com/pages/downloads.html

http://www.bovistech.com/disks.htm
for some reason Bovistech was forced to remove the bootable versions.
so now They too require a sys command to make the floppy bootable.
:( :(

bootdisk.com is currently defunct?

http://support.micronpc.com/file_lib/boot.html


please bear in mind that some downloaded floppies may require you to make them bootable.
iow, run sys A:

Of course, you can try find the drivers install disk using hardware model info
you may have to open the case, and look on the reader.
When a cdrom reader ribbon is connected to a soundcard, you'll most likely have to use whatever info you found on the card because you want to install the controller driver for that card. (interfaces can be sony, panasonic, mitsumi, atapi)
(but hey, you may already have such an install floppy.)

Or, you have a old DOS/win95 systemdisk with the driver properly working.
in this case, you can copy your-card-driver.sys, and config.sys and autoexec.bat to root of the newer version floppy.
Now, if the systemdisk was your hard disk, you will need edit out the path, so as to point to root of A:

And then, TEST the floppy...

---------------------------------------------

Let's assume you have a cdrom install disk.
Well, It's hard to come by, so make a diskcopy of it...
(believe me, one day you'll learn how useful diskcopy on a floppy really is)

SINCE YOU WILL MAKE YOUR HARD DRIVE BOOTABLE, IT WOULD BE A GOOD THING IF YOUR BOOTER IS SAME VERSION AS THE Operating System YOU GONNA INSTALL
Have you made that start disk with smartdrv.exe and diskcopy.com on it ????
make a diskcopy of it
delete A:config.sys
delete A:autoexec.bat

then you open notepad (when you save, you need save with "all file types" option enabled)
[if you still know how to use EDIT in DOS, you can use that too]

create a file called
A:\autoexec.bat
all it really needs is (in notepad this is easy, paste the following into it )

LH smartdrv

save it

again open notepad (or edit in DOS) create
A:\config.sys
this one needs;

device=himem.sys /testmem:off
DEVICE=EMM386.EXE NOEMS
files=10
buffers=10
dos=high,umb
stacks=9,256
lastdrive=z

save it (I'll repeat it, when you save, you need save with "all file types" option enabled)
comment; when you're in a truly big fix, and no windows machine is available, yes, you can do all this having nothing else than a boot floppy.

Write protect that floppydisk by sliding the little plastic tab away fron the hole.

boot the formatted computer from it, and here we go

C:
cd\
md dos
cd dos
copy a:\
cd\
copy C:\dos\
A:
sys C:

Pop cdrom driver for DOS disk in and;
install
you may have to change directory to the dos setup file (usually, but not always called install.exe)
dir install.exe /s should find it.
if not, try dir setup.exe /s

(you could also browse this floppy on your good puter)

Let's say you find it in a folder called FORDOS.
Then you would type
cd FORDOS
install
when it finished, reboot from hard disk.
with a bit of luck, you can read stuff on your CDROM.
Why luck?
Well, the adresses and dma it/you picked can be wrong
if so, assuming it was in FORDOS, again run A:\FORDOS\install

(lets hope you don't need do all this; after all, there is cdromgod, they truly did a great job.)

once you can access your cdrom reader, copy the windows setup cabinets to a harddisk or partition, and launch setup

1+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++1

PARTING SHOTS;

drive manufactor tools are often A LOT FASTER and suitable than above....
western digital tools http://www.wdc.com/service/ftp/drives.html

maxtor http://maxtor.com for maxblast

[ samsumg.com ] is a pain to navigate, but DrMDJ found this for you http://www.samsungelectronics.com/hd...ies_index.html

quantum have merged with maxtor.
direct link = http://www.maxtor.com/Quantum/suppor...e/softmenu.htm

seagate.com for discwizard and disk manager (link was broken,.. this one = updated, nov 2001) http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/...s/discwiz.html

suggestions for procedural and textual improvement STILL welcomed.

this message-text has been edited "halfaquadrizillion" times to incorporate things we later learned about and suggestions/corrections some gentle people offered.


Hi guys.
GG1's had an issue on a Compaq hard drive, which made me edit this thingy again, to add a warning about the COMPAQ pitfall.
(it's covered somewhat more below)

[This message has been edited by jtdoom (edited 11-07-2001).]

this edit to add stuff about dual boot systems

[This message has been edited by jtdoom (edited 03-09-2002).]

[This message has been edited by jtdoom (edited 03-30-2002).]

Just a little add jt if I may, .

How to check what is on bootdisk:
If you did a Dir of A from the C prompt, then you wouldn't see all files. You need to remove the attributes to see everything.
Those files are hidden system files. You can do this from a Dos box in Windows.
EDIT
Try this
A: enter
attrib -s -h -r enter
dir /p enter
or if you want to generate a list on your desktop in a file named floppy.txt
A: enter
attrib -s -h -r enter
dir>C:\windows\desktop\floppy.txt enter

Should be 24 files.

This will bring up all the files that are supposed to be on that disk---check to make sure they are all there. When you reach the end of the list that's showing on the screen--hit ENTER and it will show a few more. Here is everything--are there any missing?

• Aspi2dos.sys
  Aspi4dos.sys
  Aspi8dos.sys
  Aspi8u2.sys
  Aspicd.sys
  Autoexec.bat
  Btcdrom.sys
  Btdosm.sys
  Command.com
  Config.sys
  Drvspace.bin
  Ebd.cab
  Ebd.sys
  Extract.exe
  Fdisk.exe
  Findramd.exe
  Flashpt.sys
  Himem.sys
  Io.sys
  Msdos.sys
  Oakcdrom.sys
  Ramdrive.sys
  Setramd.bat

------------------
SMILE
and post back

Hi, Train,
thanks.
that's the one I call setup disk.
_________________________________
the EBD made from cdrom has most of the files that are hidden in ebd.cab (which a setup dissk copies into ramdrive)....
yet, in the EDB made from CDROM one sees that chkdsk.exe is missing, and this is a useful tool.(chkdsk can be used to determine if there is a discrepancy in memory size, which can tell you about the presence of a boot virus. The normal memory size is 655.360 Bytes. http://support.microsoft.com/support...s/Q82/9/23.ASP

AFTER THIS, there is still space left for small tools.
I suggest one copies...
C:\windows\smartdrv.exe
C:\windows\scanreg.ini
C:\windows\command\scanreg.exe
C:\windows\command\chkdsk.exe and
C:\windows\command\diskcopy.com
C:\windows\command\scandisk.ini (strange, but it's missing, and useful for scandisk /CUSTOM)

to that floppy.
____________________________________

You may remember this old butter version, which described a method for creating a booter with most of the native DOS utilities.
I still have and use utilities disks
.....................................

this was such a method
_______________________
FORMAT AND COPY SYSTEM TO FLOPPY
Then you copy the following files to it;
attrib.exe
chkdsk.exe
deltree.exe
edit.com
edit.hlp
emm386.exe
fdisk.exe
find.exe
format.com
himem.sys
label.exe
more.com
move.exe
scandisk.exe
scandisk.ini
smartdrv.exe
sys.com
xcopy.exe
xcopy32.MOD

then you open notepad (or edit in DOS) and create the file
A:\autoexec.bat
all it needs is (this is easy, paste the following into it )

LH smartdrv
rem
echo type DIR to see the tools on this disk
echo for help, type <commandname> /?
echo for help on scandisk, type scandisk /?
rem
echo IF drive was locked by previous unsuccessful
echo scandisk, type unlock [driveletter:]

----------
save it

again open notepad (or edit in DOS) create
A:\config.sys
this one needs;

device=himem.sys /testmem :off
DEVICE=EMM386.EXE NOEMS
files=10
buffers=10
dos=high,umb
stacks=9,256
lastdrive=Z

-----------
save it

BTW, the line with lastdrive=Z is quite important.
------------------

a truly basic boot floppy for other DOS utils
[start button] [run] command (opens a dosbox)
format A: /s
del A:drvspace.bin

this makes a bootable basic floppy I use to copy selected utilities onto.
One can build an essential toolbox.
for instance, I make disks with the norton utilities for DOS, Norton's GHOST, and a virus scanner/virus remover kit for DOS.
Some utilities want plenty low memory space,
This requires a memory manager, which gets loaded when himem.sys and emm386.exe are configured to be loaded from within config.sys and autoexec.bat (see above)
==================================

suggestions for improvement have been included... Jaak

yet another method.

assuming cdrom is a full copy of windows (not an upgrade/not a "restore" disk)
well, then you can boot from it.

select to boot from it in BIOS,
boot from it, accept cdrom support, but do NOT accept licence.

put empty floppy in floppy drive
type the following
format B: [enter]
copy *.* B:\ [enter]
sys B: [enter]

remove the floppy, and slide the write protect tab to write protect it
mark it BOOT FLOPPY WIN98


edit >
and for your very own "boot off hard disk" "boot off CDROM" booter, you use xclone (use google to find xclone)

[driveletter xclone is on]:[path]\xclone A: B:

thanks Jaak, great thread and info, it's now in my "tips & tricks" bookmark.

------------------
Who put a 'Stop Payment' on my reality check?

GREAT INFO

But you can also get it here:
http://personal.picusnet.com/jtmurphy/home.htm

Just added CMOS Batteries and Floppies

Murf

Hi Enki and murf
the better it gets, the less times it's gonna be needed.

just made some minor edits.
I do not mind if it gets quoted or exerpts are taken from it.

it does cover some possible pitfalls seldom mentioned.

I read that instance about the guy with two drives who wiped/repartitioned the wrong disk because he had not doublechecked...

or the guy who had not looked and deleted the wrong partition thinking he was wiping D: (extended was set active)

as I say, ideas for improvements welcomed.



------------------
If what I heard was free advice, would I take it? Jaak

found this post tonight and its great.jtdoom well done mate!! excellent stuff!!

later

------------------
Elvis left the building and came to mine

I agree funky. Thanks for all the info Jaak. Just put it all in the favs list...

------------------
Please remember to let us know if it worked or not...JJ

Hi all,

Our one and only Mosaic1 told me about this.
http://support.microsoft.com/support.../Q194/8/46.ASP
it kinda covers some as yet unexplored issues...
at this date, I am glad to report this tip came in handy on a couple occasions.
Thx, Mo.
------------------------------------------------------------
I'd also like to point out that NT, W2K and Linux issues have not (yet) been adressed in this thread.

ME introduced a few differences, which newgrl points out to theoran inthis thread re theoran's ramblings;

Quote:

---

Theoran - Easy on the eyes. Easy to get around in. Nice content.

Really, Really Well Done!!! https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

I have a favor to ask though... on the
Format page http://members.tripod.com/theoran0/
... could you make mention of the fact that those folks formatting with an ME bootdisk cannot use the /s switch? ME will not let you transfer system files to a disk without an operating system already present, so this switch returns an error and confuses some folks.

Thank you,
Heidi
------------------
Moderator, Windows 9x/ME, Windows 2000, www.helpfromtechs.com

---

at this point in time, I haven't yet found a way to make a boot disk straight from ME cdrom, so where does that leave you when you are in a fix...?
boot from it (does ME upgrade boot?)
hmmm, am I gonna have to butter up newgrl to find out?
https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

-----------------------------------------------------------
btw, I still wish someone could translate butter to English
https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
-----------------------------------------------------------

jeesh, the new newest newernewest ramblings have moved again?

kind regards, Jaak


[This message has been edited by jtdoom (edited 11-07-2001).]

I'm workin' on it.

Don't stand on one leg 'till it's finished...probably next week.

standing on one leg has never been my strong point. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
btw, to add insult to injury, people at the plant have suggested I attach skeelers to my lite bike after that nasty fall end february. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

they should advise sensible things like a pair of 2000W xenon headlights. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/


------------------
Remember, it's FREE advice. It may be worth all of two cents.

Jaak

jt
maybe this will shed some light for you.
Not a boot disk but, I can hope. http://discussions.virtualdr.com/For...ML/000005.html

------------------
SMILE
and post back
[ Book mark this post to find it again]

Ahh HA, That IS where you added...now you know why you won't get an edit button on the other deal. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Hi train,
thanks for sharing this info on ME

-------
why do I stress the importance of making virus free boot disks with cdrom support?
Simple, you may need one to get out of a fix.
-------
a small addition to all this.
once you get proprietary cdrom readers to work, make a booter with the files it requires, and copy config.sys and autoexec.bat from C: to A:
And then edit the lines install wrote to correct the path since these files are now on a:

btw, windows setup will often put REM in front of them...

Jaak

Quote:

---

at this point in time, I haven't yet found a way to make a boot disk straight from ME cdrom, so where does that leave you when you are in a fix...?

boot from it (does ME upgrade boot?)

hmmm, am I gonna have to butter up newgrl to find out?

---

No buttering necessary jtdoom https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
To answer your questions...

To the best of my knowledge there is no way to make a bootdisk from an ME cd. I have been known to send folks off to CompUSA to ask the techies there to make one for them... even had to call a CompUSA in the area of one customer in a jam once because they refused to help her out. All of the research I've done on the microsoft site suggests using or making a 98 boot disk if you are in a jam... not helpful, but there it is anyway...

Although the full version of ME is bootable... the upgrade is not. The full version also comes with a bootdisk, but format.com and fdisk.exe have to either be run from the cd rom (example: e:\win9x\format.com) or copied to the crippled boot disk so you can run them properly. They are not in a cab file, so at least they are readily available.

If you have any more questions about ME... feel free to ask. I'll be happy to help.

Nice job you've done here. You ought to get a translator(*big, huge grin* https://discussions.virtualdr.com/) and go into technical writing.

------------------
Moderator, Windows 9x/ME, Windows 2000, www.helpfromtechs.com

newgrl,
I don't have a bootable ME to try this.

But, what would the resulting floppy hold if one tried the following?
boot from cdrom, not accept licence
copy *.* B:\
sys B:

I'd like to find out which files it holds.

in the same vain, since booting from a win98 bootable cdrom creates a ramdrive with utilities (ramdrive contains the stuff found in ebd.cab)
why not use a second floppy, and copy the content from the ramdrive to B:\

may even work in ME.
would be interested to know what THAT held, if anything...

it's just a thought.

Whenever you people of abundant knowledge get together I am a most avid reader, but this time I have a question. Starting with ME, is it the beginning of the end as far as any of us getting into the software and hacking it?(Good hacking now) What happens when Whistler comes, do we become even more restricted. Vaugely reminds me of censorship.

------------------
Seek knowledge and all else will follow


Please post back results - Press Ctl D to bookmark

Information

jtdoom,
Just tried it...
Can't sys the floppy. Back to that whole "crippled DOS" thing... I have yet to figure out why they did this. You cannot transfer system files to any disk without an operating system present. This includes floppies.

You can copy the contents of the ebd.cab file from the ramdrive to the floppy... but you cannot make it bootable. Still stuck.

If you want to see the contents of the ME boot floppy and the breakdown of what ends up in the ramdrive see:
Contents of the Windows Millennium Startup Disk

for comparison:
Contents of the Windows 98 Startup Disk



------------------
Moderator, Windows 9x/ME, Windows 2000, www.helpfromtechs.com

a bootable disk has:

Volume in drive A is OS96
Volume Serial Number is 18D9-3D2F
Directory of A:\

IO SYS 222,390 04-23-99 10:22p IO.SYS
MSDOS SYS 0 04-23-99 10:22p MSDOS.SYS
DRVSPACE BIN 68,871 04-23-99 10:22p DRVSPACE.BIN
COMMAND COM 93,890 04-23-99 10:22p COMMAND.COM
4 file(s) 385,151 bytes
0 dir(s) 1,071,616 bytes free

Now, does ME have any of these?
can they be added?


------------------
SMILE
and post back
[ Book mark this post to find it again]

hi,
thanks for the links.

looks to me sys B: might work if ran from ramdrive...

far as I know, there is method to define path from/to when running sys

example; if ramdrive is E:
E:sys A:\ B:

------------------
Remember, it's FREE advice. It may be worth all of two cents.

Jaak

Jtdoom,
Sys b: does not work when run from the ramdrive. The error message returned is, "You can only Sys drive c: to try and repair the boot hard disk. Use startup disk option in add/remove programs to create an emergency bootdisk."

You cannot sys any disk that does not have an operating system already on it once you have loaded COMMAND.COM, IO.SYS, and MSDOS.SYS from any ME disk. This does not matter if it is the cd rom... or the bootdisk... or the hard disk.

I believe Sys is crippled by a command in one of the boot files, but I am unsure of which one or where to start looking. At least that is my understanding from the reading I've done on Real DOS-Mode Patch for Windows Millennium.

You can easily copy over the ram drive. That command words fine. When booted with cd rom support this is the list that is copied:

attrib.exe
checkdsk.exe
command.com
debug.exe
edit.com
ext.exe
extract.exe
format.com
help.bat
mscdex.exe
readme.txt
scandisk.exe
scandisk.ini
sys.com

... but still sys is crippled.

------------------
Moderator, Windows 9x/ME, Windows 2000, www.helpfromtechs.com

Hi Heidi
this sucks, don't it...
thanks.
it was worth a try https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

oh
I gave an example
from ramdrive sys A:\ B:
or sys a: b:

iow, that wasn't just sys B:

A:\ or a: defined path to system files
B: defined destination.

even when this won't work for ME, this tip can be useful?
you see, I think you MIGHT be able to make an ME system disk after having booted with another version booter...

if not, oh well, ME ULTIMATE booter.
I also came across this batch at a site my buddy stev-rey mailed me the url of. the URL with the download http://www.diydatarecovery.nl/~tkuurstra/downloads.htm
the site Steve pointed me to http://www.diydatarecovery.nl/
I had a look at it in notepad
looks interesting.
does a neat thing with a dummyfile to make a floppy
can anyone test it? I don't have ME installed https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
____________________________________

the regulars may remember I wanted additional info on a question largely unanswered in butter...
So I started a thread about recognising what some partitions are FOR

Found yet another thread with a ZAP-like solution http://discussions.virtualdr.com/For...ML/043101.html

I'd like to add the warning that zapping may be very drastic if done without takeing some precautions
I would suggest that one use MBRWORK or Ranish since these can store partition info before one "zaps" http://www.webdev.net/orca/mbrwork.htm http://www.users.intercom.com/~ranish/part/

------------------
Remember, It may be worth less than two cents. Evenso, we like to know what worked. so Please bookmark your topic, and post back?

Kind regards, Jaak

Jaak

Jaak had mentioned converting "butter". We think it is nearly complete.

The effort is loaded at:
www.lurkhere.com/articles/butter.html

Very well done.

Sheesh, so that's english?

I'm so used to his flemishness, that his version seems to make more sense to me https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

------------------

It's either that or it's into the woodchipper

Hi Folks
this is a summary of many things I've collected about USING FDISK

FIRST, some warnings about fdisk /mbr
It is often recommended that one use fdisk /mbr to sort out some problem.
But, you had better known about the possible dangers.
FDISK /MBR can cause serious problems when you

• #are using a boot manager for multi OS booting
  #have more than 4 partitions
  (have recently ran a few trials, and it's true)
  #require disk management software (overlay).
  #use goback or second chance (or similar)
  #use a laptop with a boot util for swappable cdrom and floppy bays
  #have a machine wich has a tattoo bios copied on the drive.

what's FDSK /MBR for? undocumented FDISK

what jacobsen says

Fdisk rewrites the master boot record what microsoft says

To kill master boot record infectors, it is often said that fdisk /mbr will kill it.
(even when fdisk was not designed to be used as antivirus tool)
BEWARE, The use of fdisk /mbr is NOT always good for virus removal.
The One-Half virus is a classic example of this dangerous potential. you can read about it here

Some explanations;
OVERLAY
an overlay is used for older machines, which cannot directly work with a capacious hard drive (a BIOS limitation) When these machines boot, you normally see a message pop up asking something like, "do you want to boot from floppy?" (But not always. You may have killed the options-message software, and still have the overlay.)

How to find out if you have OVERLAY
http://support.microsoft.com/support.../Q186/0/57.ASP

now, remember this
When you're machine BIOS is set to first try boot from FLOPPY or CDROM, the overlay is bypassed when you do not load the overlay from hard disk.
Overlay software normally gives you an option to boot from floppy, but does that only after it got the options screen while initiating the bootprocess from the HARD-DISK it is on.
In other words, if you boot straight from a floppy, you may have bypassed the overlay, and the hard disk may "inexplicably" become invisible to DOS...or show a size of 504MB only...
fdisk not giving you the fat 32 option seems to be a giveaway symptom too...

ABOUT GOBACK
Older versions of GoBack created a problem when one fdisks /mbr while GoBack is active. Newer versions are able to recognize and rehook itself to the mbr without using a copy of one of GoBacks files on a flopy while in DOS.
Naturally GoBack is tied to the mbr, how else could such a program function?
the thing to do that come to mind would be
disable goback for a few sessions,
or fully uninstall goback
NOT listen when someone tells you to do fdisk /mbr
when you uninstall goback, first disable bios anti-virus (which will yell at you when it sees a change to mbr)
while disabling/uninstalling goback, an installed AV program may also want to protect the mbr (mssg in the vein of "changes to boot record", etc)
You would want to allow changes.
But hell, I seen problems when two "services" acted simultaneuously. a mobo AV and AV proggy, when both active, may create serious clashes...)

To disable GOBACK;
1- From the Start menu, click Shut Down, and then select the option to restart the computer.
Hold down the CTRL + ALT keys simultaneously while tapping the G key right after the computer completes its Power On Self Test (POST) and before the GoBack message.
Note: Timing is very important and it may take a few tries.
GoBack prompts if you would like to force GoBack to unhook itself from the MBR.
To have GoBack unhook itself, press the F key.
A message prompting that GoBack successfully unhooked itself appears and the computer starts back into Windows.
A message may appear that prompts that GoBack is currently disabled and would you like to re-enable it. Click Yes.
If a message does not appear or if GoBack does not successfully enable again, follow the normal removal/reinstall procedure for your version of GoBack.
2- There is a method of booting off a flopy while GoBack is active. When you reboot the system there is a window that advices you to hit the spacebar if you want to restore your system. If you do, a menu apears, and one of the items is "boot from flopy".


STILL ABOUT FDISK, and beyond...
to get this info, I asked our fellow members for help.
this is a what I got out of them.

Q- Suppose you want to FDISK a machine
What if you find a non-DOS partition, either active or not, and you don't know why it exists?
What if you find a small DOS partition, either active or not, and you don't know why it exists?
Whatever you find, you must find out why it is there.
So guys, here is the question. What can it be for? And what are the telltales?
For instance, It can be an overlay as used on older machines.
An overlay may even be a small DOS part??
(I remember that in the old days, many larger drives had the utility on them, and booted as a floppy. During the overlay creation process, a real floppy was made)
What does an overlay in older and current drives look like?
We are already aware of this article. http://support.microsoft.com/support.../Q186/0/57.ASP
whatever you see, it can also be an NTFS or Linux partition.
It can be a suspend to disk partition as found in many notebooks, and some desktops.
what are the telltales here? The last ones I can think of, are a drive tattoo or a small partition where BIOS is copied onto. (Does that use a small partition? Where will a tattoo be found?)
So here it is.
WHY is it there? And how does one find out what is in there...
oh yeah, the manual may not be available...
yeah, that was the QUESTION....
And I got plenty info

Other Partition Types
The microsoft family
DOS partitions work in all systems up through Win9x, but they are not always compatible. Versions before windows 95 OSR2 did not support FAT32.
Windows NT and Windows 2000 (in a clean install) uses an NTFS file system. Partitioning of these drive is the along the same lines but you should know one thing. If you choose to install a NTFS onto the partition and later go back and use a Win9x operating system you will have to destroy the partition and start over. The file allocation structures are radically different. The same principle applies when trying to regress from a Windows 98 operating system to an earlier version of Windows. Backward compatibility just ain't there folks.
-------
There are many other types like UNIX, Linux, and NOVELL, to name a few.
--------
Compaqs (a brand of computers) use a non-dos partition for the setup information, so that you dont have to use the Diskettes. Very good unless you forget to put it back after deleting it, to wipe the HD clean. Only about 2mb in size....
Q- how does Compaq setup info on a non dos partition load? Is that little part active or non active? If I try to explain why I wanna know, I have to use laymans Flemish...
In laymens, it's gotta be called to or call out. Also, can it be saved to floppy?
A- On my Compaq I did the status and I found it all there. And yes, I took in the difference between advertised and actual sizes. It is a presario 5222 with a 8.4GB harddrive.
The bomide is the Compaq id that is on the harddisk.
--------
I use Partition Magic to set a small hidden partition on my secondary, so that the drive letters don't go jumping around, while I see how much of the alphabet I can use.
What will that hidden part look like in Fdisk ?
(this remained unanswered)
--------
HOW TO IDENTIFY TYPES
I hope you never get in this situation. But when you want to do partitioning and you find the drive was used, the OS got butchered by a botched attempt to use another OS or perhaps a multiOS.
Unfortunately FDISK just won't cut it in terms of being able to show what's what on the "non-standard" partition types.

Partition identifiers; http://www.powerquest.com/support/primus/id233.html
http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/partition...n_types-1.html
http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/partition...on_tables.html

Ranish is decent tool to find out what partition types you have.
http://www.users.intercom.com/~ranish/part/
If you look at all 4 info areas, you can usually figure out what it is.
Or, boot with the latest slack install cd, login as root, and type cfdisk. It'll show plenty types of partitions.

Q- That says slack install CD.. that's gotta be linux?
Which precautions do we take so as not to molest anything?
A- You just hit the q for quit to exit without changing anything.
Ranish shows many partition types,including novell, and I think all I've seen listed in this thread. It does take some getting used to, the more I understand about hdds, the easier ranish is to understand, because it lists everything. Cylinders, heads, sectors, partition types, mbr, code. Partition Magic is for those who don't want to have to understand the real basics, good for windows, but isn't nearly as powerful. Testdisk is also a very good tool, as is mbrwork. The downside of cfdisk is it doesn't fit on a floppy, I think it needs about 4 megs, but you can create all those partition types with it.
A- Unfortunately FDISK just won't cut it in terms of being able to show what's what on the "non-standard" partition types. Something like RANISH's part.exe that Downtime showed the link to is free, and runs in dos. It can help. There are other such things available too. And in the worst case it is possible to use a small Debug script to examine the info and get the partition type number. Then armed with a list of type numbers, as in the case of the link I provided above, you can see what's there.

IMM wrote;
This one covers the various variations of Unix - the *nix world.
There is source here for FreeBSD and Linux as well as some good links http://www.stud.uni-hannover.de/user/76201/gpart/
I don't know if anyone followed the links from my first post but here is one of the ways to go.
Go to http://www.esiea.fr/public_html/Chri.../testdisk.html and download it.
Unzip the package somewhere. Format a floppy with the basic system files. (FORMAT A: /s)
Copy the cwsdpmi.exe and the testdisk.exe files (form the extracted DOS subdirectory) to the floppy and boot with the floppy - then run the program.
If you're playing with your own system make sure you don't write anything to your disk!
The first link I gave will require a linux boot disk or similar or a compile using djgpp and most people on this board probably don't want to go that route.
The TestDisk stuff I was pointing at doesn't require any Linux - just a floppy with Windows (DOS) system files. For those with a reading knowledge of C - the source code is also included.
Here is some of the readme.
-------------------------
TestDisk 3.2 checks the partition and boot sectors of your disks.
It is very useful to recover lost partitions.
It works with :
- FAT12
- FAT16
- FAT32
- NTFS (Windows NT)
- EXT2FS (Linux)
- Linux Swap
- IBM Multiboot
- BeFS (BeOS)
- UFS (BSD)
- RaiserFS
TestDisk runs under:
- Dos, Win9x
- Linux
- FreeBSD
TestDisk is under GNU Public License.
Christophe Grenier
[email protected] http://www.esiea.fr/pulic_html/Christophe.GRENIER/
------------------------
If someone did want a floppy or CD bootable disk to use the Linux utilities then he/she could try http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/sys...ry/!INDEX.html
for the "The most Linux on one floppy." stuff.
His home page is http://ftp.toms.net/rb/home.html

Another member mailed me and pointed me to this utility. http://www.aefdisk.com/
http://covenant-itr.hypermart.net/fdisk-2.htm
http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~trix/...2/SSR02-03.htm

and last,
Craig Duckett’s DUG_IDE can come in useful. http://www.lurkhere.com/~nicefiles/index.html
it gets the data from the drive electronics, and shows manufactor, model, and SIZE
this can be useful to determine how much space there should be, and even more useful when one wants the drive manufactor tools but don't know the make.

-------------------------
for those who wonder about the edits,
-added info on overlays-

this had better be kept up to date, don't ya think? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/


[This message has been edited by jtdoom (edited 08-04-2001).]

[This message has been edited by jtdoom (edited 11-24-2001).]

Hi, some of you guys may wonder if this will ever be laid to rest...
However, butter still evolves.
Some of the information I recently added was added because I feel this thread is already dedicated to it.

for those who bookmarked it, I bet you's right.
This one ain't for the archives YET... https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

xcopy would not work without the XCOPY32.MOD file on floppy.

added pitfall warnings on overlay.

added an explanation here and there...

some people copied parts of this thread to a file.
they might wanna replace that txt
Sorry guys.

wipeout, a blinding fast tool to wipe ALL partitons off a drive, is currently found under NICEFILES at http://www.lurkhere.com/

DUG_ID by Doug Merret is found there as well.
this tool comes in quite handy when one needs make and model (and SIZE) of a drive.
you may need that non-destructive info gathering tool

a heartfelt thank you to the people who helped me gather this info.
all errors are still mine...

------------------
it's only FREE advice!

Kind regards, Jaak

VDR SEARCH

hi bump-it-up

now you make me GRIN.

you beat me to it
here is my bump.

it's some information I gathered while GG1 had a problem with a dying compaq hard disk, and replaced it with huge drive...

Hi,
he has no SOS or emergency restore floppy?
also, bomide may need to be set up.

Here is something I saw when I searched for mobo info
(we wanted to find out if there would be a BIOS limitation).
btw, the info I got was for UK versions, so goose should go to US support instead.

here is the excerpt...

bigfoot http://www.uktechsupport.f9.co.uk/co...rdware.htm#hdd

where I read this, almost at bottom,
Quantum Bigfoot CY Hard Drives

This update is aimed at Presario models what came with a 5.25-inch Quantum Bigfoot CY Hard Drive a diskware version prior to A03.0900.

Under certain data recovery scenarios, the drive can corrupt internal data files, causing the drive to become inoperable.

The update in this SoftPaq can only be used proactively, before the problem occurs. The softpaq number is SP5995. Click here for the installation instructions.

NOTE: According to Compaq, it will have no detrimental affect to apply this update to a hard drive that does not need it or to a hard drive other than the affected 5.25-inch Quantum Bigfoot Hard Drive.
-----
then, at bottom of page

Compaq Hard Disk Drives

A lot of Compaq hard disk drives are usually partitioned into two or three depending on their size. One or two DOS partitions and a small (12MB) non DOS partition.

This non DOS partition contains the BIOS setup utility and settings and other tools and is accessed by pressing F10 at start up when the cursor flashes in the top right corner of the screen.

[remark] this is probably absent on the new drive... so he has to create the floppies [/remark]

The machine needs this partition information to run and so it is a good idea to make a back-up, particularly if you plan to "fiddle" with the hard drive at all.

A backup can be made using the "Create a Diagnostics Diskette" option from this very setup screen. It is very simple, two floppies are required (one labelled setup and the other labelled diagnostics) all instructions are given on screen and the process takes about 5 minutes. These disks are used to recreate the non DOS partition as below.

These disks are also available (in compressed a form) as sp7781.exe (Diagnostics) and sp2141.exe (Setup) from from the softpaq page.
MIND YOU, goose may need other softpacs

this was as far as got on US site.
it has plenty updates, and drivers and such, but I did not find the restore Emergency rescue floppy. http://web14.compaq.com/falco/sp_list.asp

let's hope this helps future compaq/Hewlet packard machine owners.

Mosaic1 once posted a good article on partitioning her HP
MOSAIC HEWLETT PACKARD
I am going to do it.Repartition this HD. I e-mailed Hp today and got a positive response. An Hp can be repartitioned using Fdisk. The technique is a bit different from the standard, the Bios needs to be reset and you use the restore disk to do the job, not a floppy bootdisk. The e-mail is quite long to post here. But there have been a few people asking about it lately. I have a 42.9 GIG HD with FAT32. Too big. So I am posting this for anyone who wants to know it can be done and how.
From HP tech Support:

Quote:

---

I understand that you want to know if doing an Fdisk to repartition your
hard drive will prevent the recovery CDs from working with your unit.
there should be no problem with doing the fDisk. Here are
instructions on how to do this process:

First, we will need to back up all important data, because using the
FDISK utility will erase ALL data currently on the PC.

Next, we will have to remove any third-party devices attached to the
system. This is necessary for the recovery CDs to properly detect the
system.

The following steps will help you successfully perform a recovery at
this point:
1. Insert the recovery disk in the drive.
2. Power off the computer.
3. Remove or disconnect all added hardware (e.g. printer, scanner,
joystick, new video card, etc) from the computer.
4. Power on the system.
5. At the blue HP Expanding Possibilities screen, start tapping the
[F-1] key until the message "Entering Setup" appears.
6. At the setup screen, press the [F-5] then [Enter] key to reset all
data to factory defaults.
7. Then press the [F-10] then [Enter] key to save all changes and exit
the BIOS setup.
8. The system should boot to the recovery CD. At the first prompt, press
the spacebar to enter the recovery program.
9. Press the [Enter] key to proceed.
10. Click on the words "Advanced Options", located in the upper
right-hand corner of the screen.
11. Click on the words "Dos Shell".
12. At this point the system will exit to a DOS prompt. Type the
following at the cursor: FDISK Then press [Enter]
13. Now the system will ask if you would like to use large disk support.
This enables the system use the full storage space of the hard drive
installed. Press [Enter] at this point to select yes and proceed with
the FDISK program. The FDISK options screen should now be displayed
14. At the FDISK options menu, type #3, then [Enter.] The following
options will be displayed:

1. Delete Primary Partition
2. Delete Extended Partition
3. Delete logical DOS drive (s) in the extended DOS Partition
4. Delete Non-Dos partitions

These are the main options that will be used to remove the partition
from the hard drive

15. Press the [1] key to delete the primary DOS partition

16. Press [Enter] when it asks which primary DOS partition to delete (#1
is defaulted)
17. Enter the volume label exactly as it is seen above. If there is none
just press [Enter.]
18. Press [Esc] twice to go back to the DOS prompt At the end of these
steps, reboot the computer for the changes to go into effect within the
system. This can be accomplished by holding the [Ctrl] and [Alt] keys,
then pressing the [Delete] key twice. Once the system has rebooted, an
error stating that there are no partition (s) defined on the system will
be displayed. Follow the above step (item 12) to enter the FDISK utility
from the DOS prompt.

After doing this follow the steps below to recreate the partition.
1. Press [1] then [Enter] to create a dos partition.
2. Press [1] then [Enter] at the 2nd options menu to create the primary
partition. This is the partition in which the operating system (Windows
98) will be loaded.
3. A message will appear asking if you would like to use the maximum
space available for the primary partition. Type the letter [Y] and press
[Enter]. By doing this it will use the entire available space to create
the primary partition.
4. The total disk space available on the hard drive will be displayed,
along with the maximum space available for the primary partition.
5. At this point, the format and recovery must be completed. This can be
accomplished by pressing the [Esc] key until the DOS prompt appears
again. Once at the DOS prompt, turn the power off to the system for at
least 30 seconds to 1 minute. Be sure to leave the recovery CD inside
the CD-ROM drive as well. Turn the system back on. At this time the
recovery CD will be loaded and will automatically detect that the hard
drive is not formatted and begin to run an initial format for the hard
drive to hold data. Allow the format to complete, at which time the
system should boot to the recovery disk again.
6. At the main Recovery screen press the spacebar to enter the recovery
program.
7. Click on the word "OK".
8. Click on the word "Recover".
9. Click on the words "Recovery Only".
10. A confirmation page should appear, advising that running a recovery
of the system will erase any data stored on the system, Click on the
word "Yes".

---

I responded that I wanted to create more than one partition. They e-mailed this to me:

Quote:

---

You will need to make your first partition the C: drive, and make it
large enough to handle the Recovery Disk information. If you do that,
you should have no problem.

---

So. It can be done. Using the recovery disk.

courtesy of Mosaic1 at VDr.


kind regards, Jaak.

now, that's what I call a BUMP.
thanks anyway, it's appreciated.

------------------
Remember, there is always something we forgot to ask.
And, it's only FREE advice!

Kind regards, Jaak

Excelent reading in this thread. My thanks to all who contributed their replys and postings. Many questions were answered, even those I was/am too dumb to ask. Neat stuff

Again, My thanks to all

------------------
Brian
Always something to learn.
Knowledge is power, and knowledge is where you get it

[This message has been edited by BIG JOHN (edited 09-15-2001).]

Haven't seen you around much jaak, but then I've been slack too https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

TRAIN once posted this...
https://discussions.virtualdr.com/
I'll shamelessly copy it here.

Quote:

---

If it is a Compaq.

Thank you for writing to Compaq Support Services.

Regarding your inquiry, please note that Compaq does not support hard disk drive upgrades for Presario desktops, nor do we have any BIOS or ROM updates to increase the size of supported hard drives.

It is possible to go to a computer dealer or repair shop in your area and see what third-party equipment they have that may be compatible with your computer. However, Compaq does not test third-party hardware or software and cannot support such a course of action.

Also note that Quick Restore disk will not work after replacing harddrive. If you cannot reinstall the original Compaq hard disk, you need to prepare the new hard disk for QuickRestore. Please be advised that this may not work for all hard disks and you may have unpredictable results for non-Compaq hardware. During the manufacturing process, an identification number (BOMID) is written to the UIA area of the hard disk. The BOMID identifies the model of the computer in which the hard disk is installed. Replacement hard disks do not contain this information. Therefore, when using QuickRestore on a Compaq Presario computer that contains a replacement hard disk, the QuickRestore program will be unable to identify the model of the computer.

SOLUTION
Follow the steps below to write the BOMID to the UIA area of the new hard disk:

1. Insert the QuickRestore diskette (when applicable) and CD into the appropriate drives, and then restart the computer.

NOTE: If a QuickRestore boot diskette is not included with the QuickRestore kit, you can create this diskette from the BOOTDISK subdirectory on the QuickRestore CD.

2. At the initial screen (Program Language Selection), select "Exit" from theQuickRestore utility.
3. At the A:\> prompt, type uiabomwr_xxx (where xxx is the BOMID of the computer), and then press Enter.

EXAMPLE: A:\uiabomwr 201 would store the 201 BOMID (for a Compaq Presario model 8772) into the UIA area of the hard disk.

If the BOMID fails, then your new hard disk does not support the ability to have the BOMID written to it. You cannot run QuickRestore without the BOMID. You should take the computer to a local Compaq Authorized Service Center to have a replacement hard disk installed that supports QuickRestore. This would require the original spare part to be installed.

NOTE: On future versions of QuickRestore CDs, the uiabomwr.exe utility will be located in the TOOLS directory of the QuickRestore CD.


Regards,
Compaq Consumer E-Services
------------------
SMILE
and post back
[ Book mark this post to find it again]

---

better have this info here than in a link which may get archived/dissapear.

for instance, Mosaic1's post on HP re-partitioning went footsie...

------------------
Remember, there is always something we forgot to ask.
And, it's only FREE advice!

Kind regards, Jaak

have ran trials on a disk with more than four partitions, and fdisk /mbr should not be used on it.

(drive had one pri-dos, one extended, five logicals in the extended)

it got killed real quick...

------------------
I think we forgot...

Kind regards, Jaak

Now that you've stomped it dead - you can practice retrieving the partitions. Try zeroing out the master boot (except the aa 55 signature) and rebuilding with a disk editor to point to one of them. (have a hex calculator handy - and it's easier on a < 8.4G drive). https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

IMM
you are way ahead of me in this respect.

hehe
you bet I ran a few trials of disktools I collected and put on floppy
One should have a MBR/partition table backup/restore tool in one's arsenal, and I bet you know of better tools than I do.

if I had programming skills, I'd know hex
alas, I don't know enough...
isn't it amazing that one can lose all data by changing just a few bytes?

anyway, the bulletin boards are once again brimming with issues about harddrives, and fdisking and such.

------------------
I think we forgot...

Kind regards, Jaak

I recently found out about the functionality of DELPART.EXE

it can save partition info and has an undo.

I recently started trials on XP and win2000
(long ago, when i tried NT4 in my older system, which had SCSI then, I found that I needed too many driver not supported in the NT system. Win2000 looks cool, tho...)

hehehe, I killed the bootmanager a few times.
and that is what this bump is about.

when win98 was the original system, and win2000 gets loaded on other partition, one should know that formating the win98 partition kills the boot option.

you see, there are a few files added to root of win98 drive.
you wipe them, you lose some...

one ought to at least save these files... AND create the NT rescue set.

------------------
It's caused by my Flemishness...

Kind regards, Jaak

here's the oficial source to delpart.exe
http://support.microsoft.com/default...;EN-US;q103049



------------------
remember, it's FREE advice...

Kind regards, Jaak

Hey Jaak!,,,thanks for reposting this,and also the add-on link.

Needs to be done occasionally to help newbies(and us ol'bies too https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ ).Can answer a "lot" of unanswered questions for folks...

------------------
Badges? We don'need no Steenkin'badges!!

And for those of you who decide to make a bootable cd of these. A little trick I learned the hard way. Go into bios and swap your A drive to B drive save and exit make your cd and after you are done Go back in and change you floppy back. What happens is your cdrom will become A: and your floppy will not work. A real nasty surprise that is.

My cdrw worked as a cdrom, but no floppy https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ when I needed it.

------------------
SMILE
and post back
[ Book mark this post to find it again]

Hi train
I must try that soonest.

what I did do a while ago was this.

booted off a win98 disk
I had xclone.exe on D:
then I did the following
D:xclone A: B:
et viola, I had the files I wanted off a win98 CDROM
(I wanted a copy of JO.SYS and FINDCD.EXE)

I wonder if one can boot off the CD if them floppy driveletters are swapped in BIOS...
as I said, soonest.

(fwiw, if for some reason BIOS detects no floppydrive (when there is one present) irq 6 gets masked. Using some tool someone wrote an eon ago, it can get unmasked. This masking happened when user had an LS120 in the machine. By calling this unmask thing in autoexec.bat he got his floppy drive letter back. )

------------------
remember, it's FREE advice...

Kind regards, Jaak

Jaak
I had used the cdr and was doing a clean install to a new hdd.

The install was going good until I tried to use the floppy drive with my 3.1 floppies. Darn , Had to start over. Maybe if I copy the floppies to the cd. . . LOL


------------------
SMILE
and post back
[ Book mark this post to find it again]