Operation Delta 3-001

Okey dokey, as promised for you VirtualDr members scattered throughout cyberspace, the third Operation Delta computer will now be attempted by yours truly. Originally I was going to build with the Queen of Hearts, but due to an unexpected expense, I have been delayed to now.

Fortunatly, prices have continued to drop and looks like they will continue for a little while yet.

This is my component list thus far.

Two Western Digital 40 GB 7200RPM (ATA What?)
Motherboard Abit BX 133-RAID ( socket370-type)
In Win S 500 ATX 2.01 compliance Mid Tower 300watt Power supply
Intel Pentium III 866MHz FC-PGA w/256KB
RAM 128PC-133
GeForce2 based or Diamond Viper ultra series Video Card (AGP type)32MB
Modem 56K (not winmodem)
Sound Card -Sound Blaster Live series
Global Win heatsink/fan
Two Network Card
Linsky'S Router
Burner (Need Recommendations)
19" monitor

There are not many changes to what the Queen of Hearts and I came up with originally.

I am going into the Dallas-Ft. Worth Metro area to Fry's to get what I can tommorow night so if you all could look the list over and critique it I would appreciate it. What do I need for tools and bits and pieces. Should I get a extra case fan?

If any of you have any questions please ask as we go along. What we have tried to do is come up with a good solid dependable performer that was just behind the cutting edge of technology which would help keep the price down. This thread is a good place to hash building a pc out by going step by step in great detail if need be. We have the experts here and remember, there is no such thing as a dumb question. If there were I've asked a bunch of them. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/


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Should I get a extra case fan?

If case has then good, but get two if it does not.

The ATA you want would be ATA100. If possible.
Artic paste for cpu, you want to remove the pad.

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I remember Bistro said to get some hardware bits and pieces for the mobo mounting.

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I think Bistro talked about standoffs. With my Antec case, they came with it, along with the mounting screws. I used about 12 or 13 standoffs and mounting screws. Check to see if your case came with them...if not you will need to purchase them.

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MAXXIMILIAN'S

maxx, I may have to send for the case as I haven't found one here yet.

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If your determined to use WD's for your hard drives,,so be it. But, you might want to look very carefully at the IBM Deskstar GXP40Gig. Last i looked at newegg(a trusted reseller for me),they were selling for us$107.00. I bought one a' couple months ago and with my newest Asus A7V133 running the onboard Promise ATA100, this baby just "screams" along. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

You might also want to take a look at Thermalright's new HSink,SK-6.Solid copper with MANY lil' fins "soldered" on for better dissipation. Can see this one over at www.plycon.com with a Delta high output fan it gets very good reviews.

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Train leaving on track 5 for Anahiem,,Azusa,,and Cuukamunga.(in memory of "the man of a thousand voices")Mel Blanc

Had the same problem, Goose. I couldn't find the InWin S500 locally and I didn't want to buy it over the net and pay the shipping on about 17 pounds. Thats why I went with the Antec mid-tower. Very happy with it and it was available at a local Best Buy. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

One thing about the Antec... When I was just looking, somebody (not sure who) here mentioned that cases with molded fronts can be a little tougher to work with. I found this to be correct. I had a little trouble with aligning the floppy drive behind this faceplate. The floppy button has to match perfectly with the case button. Not much wiggle room, but I got it to work. Might be better to have a case that allows the whole face of the floppy drive to show.

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Hell hath no fury like a computer scorned.

MAXXIMILIAN'S

Hi Ridgerunr, You think they're better than WD?

maxx, I will send for the S500 if I have to.

Got to get some sleep. 3:30am comes early donjaknow. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ Thanks for the inputs. I need all the help I can get ' cause the QoH's computer came up without a hitch and I want this one to do the same.

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To clarify what I meant about the faceplate...

Here in the Antec, the floppy is completly concealed behind the plastic face with just the floppy slot visible. Mine is the one on the right.

https://discussions.virtualdr.com/im.../2001/08/1.gif

The result is that the case button has to match the floppy button behind the plate.

With something like the InWin, the floppy just inserts like a CD-ROM and is visible. No aligning necessary.

https://discussions.virtualdr.com/im.../2001/08/1.jpg

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Hell hath no fury like a computer scorned.

MAXXIMILIAN'S

here are a few choices for you.....this first one is a 100 gb maxtor hard drive for 238.00 and the 2nd is my case of choice...nice functionality and the price fits my frugal nature http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtId=4W100H6
http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?InvtId=GN200

again just my suggestions since you said you wanted to use 2 40 gig drives that are say 120.00 each...this would be cheaper in the long run...and the case I have used on the last 5 machines I have built.

1 question.... I see in your list a 56k modem and 2 network cards along with a linksys router....I would understand this if you were using cable, dsl, or satellite for a broadband connection....but why using the dialup are you buying the router and network cards..is this for future plans. I am assuming that you are intending on putting 2 nics in this new machine is that correct or are you putting 1 in the old and setting up a lan.....

[This message has been edited by sarrkazztic (edited 08-26-2001).]

Ok, a couple explanations.
The InWin S500 is the only tower that I have worked one that I have not bled all over it.
Lots of room in it. Extremely nice to work in for me.
The nic's are for a lan. Goose is stuck with a dialup. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ So, you can say future plans.

Maybe he will hit the lottery and go for dsl?

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GG1, as mentioned in some of the earlier threads, I am certainly toying with the idea of my own build as well, and am gathering whatever info I can. The case that I pretty much decided to use was the Antec SX1030, The following link, (if I do this right) gives some prety good info and a great review.
http://ibuyer.sysopt.com/userreviews...ec_SX1030.html

I have seen it at Fry's but don't remember the price. The best that I have seen was about $119.90.

http://www.virtual-hideout.net/revie...b/index2.shtml
If you give this article a close look,,you'll know why i recommend this drive. And, if you take a look at www.newegg.com that will answer any "cost" questions.

As to a good case? InWin has to be my choice. The only drawback i have, is they quit making the slide-out mobo rack on the mid tower models. But, i was able to get the InWin Q-500 full tower(which "has" this feature)from another trusted reseller i use: www.allstarshop.com And ,yes the shipping on a case is high, but with standard UPS ground the total price was right at us$100.00 .InWin doesn't have all the fancya**ed frills and cute colors on these units,but,i personally buy for functionality rather than the cutesy "Compaq" looks. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ http://www.in-win.com/framecode/index.html

If you go to the above site and click on full tower under "products" it will give you all you'd ever want to know about this case. It also has a mechanical drawing in pdf you can right click and d/ld. for reference. Mine came with enough nuts n' bolts to set-up just about anything including about 15 brass standoffs.
edit:small retraction here https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ i notice at InWin's site they "do" still have the A-500 mid tower with slide-out mobo rack. What i don't know is who carries it now. If you definitely want a mid-tower, this is the one i recommend. The only drawback for some, is the power supply is vertical and not horizontally mounted. Making it harder to install a second output fan in the rear.

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Train leaving on track 5 for Anahiem,,Azusa,,and Cuukamunga.(in memory of "the man of a thousand voices")Mel Blanc

[This message has been edited by Ridgerunr (edited 08-27-2001).]

GG1, why P3 you will get a much faster PC for the same money if you go with AMD.

GG1,

A few quick comments in passing...

Shipping costs have risen substantially in the last year. On heavy items, like cases, they can be considerable. I am a big InWin fan. But it is not the only case out there. There are many perfectly acceptable, perfectly good cases around. Don't get locked in to something perhaps because it's been used here before. While you're out and about take a look in stores like CompUSA and BestBuy. They carry cases now, even brand names like Antec. You might be able to pick something up locally, get what you need, and save a decent amount of money.

I assume with the two 40 gig drives and RAID motherboard your intention is to play around with raid. Two drives can have advantages over one biger one. The DeckStar drives are generally very good. But there's nothing wrong with the likes of Western Digital, Maxtor, etc. If price is an issue then go non-IBM and don't look back. If max performance is more of an issue then consider something like the Deckstar line more. As for going for one 100gb drive... I would not go that route personally. There are performance issues, issues relating to the fact that these drives are relatively new, and there could be support issues (once you get over the 64gb size you have ventured in to newly charted territory).

I second sarrkazztic's question: 2 network cards and a modem? If your gonna use dial-up and just network this pc to others than the 2nd card is uneeded. If you're going DSL/Cable then you can get rid of the modem unless you want dial-up backup.

You will get more bang for the buck with an AMD. But if you are more "comfortable" with the PIII, fine.

The SBLive cards are a good all-around card for home systems. Save yourself a few bucks and don't get the Platinum. The others in the series are the same card without some added fluff. The exception is the Value. This is not the identical card. It lacks a few features/connectors that can be of value (but maybe not to you).

I won't give a specific recommendation on a burner. There are many good ones out there. What would be a suitable one (characterists and speed) depends on how you're going to use it and how often. One note, I notice you list only a CDRW. Personally, I tend to be one of those that says use a cdrom for day-to-day use and save the wear and tear on burner. The later are pricier and more delicate than simple cdrom drives.

The motherboard you're considering can be a perfectly acceptable/good, depending on what you're after and where you want to go (upgradeability). Just bear in mind that in going with a board like this you are going with a chipset that is nearing the end of it's life-cycle. So future upgradeability with this board is small to none. On the other hand, you are getting a stable and proven chipset. In general the word I've heard on the BX-133 raid is that it gets very good marks on stability, but some say it suffers some on the performance side (though it might have been nothing more than a bios issue). My understanding also is that the IRQ sharing of the HighPoint controller coupled with the normal IRQ sharing by the PCI slots can be a bit of a nuisance in some cases (depending on cards used). But a lot of this is nothing more than an issue inherent with all bx boards. The board does not support AGP 4x, but unless you're a heavy duty gamer/graphics guy then you'll not notice the difference at 2X. However this may influence your choice of video cards. And since "technically" you will be overclocking the board at 133mhz, this can make the choice of video card a factor too. All in all though this board is a very good one.

Don't forget the floppy drive.


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Quote:

---

Originally posted by DrMDJ:
GG1,

I second sarrkazztic's question: 2 network cards and a modem? If your gonna use dial-up and just network this pc to others than the 2nd card is uneeded. If you're going DSL/Cable then you can get rid of the modem unless you want dial-up backup.

---

A modem is going to be needed if faxing is to be done,I'm on cable and have yet to find a decent way to fax without the dial-up.

gg1,

Do you plan on raid'ing those disks (0, 1) or is it just a coincidence you chose 2 x 40 gigs?

I know they are a bit pricy (at least here), but have you considered Molex HS/fan ( http://www.molex.com/cgi-bin/bv/molex/index_login.jsp - Product type->other->thermal accoustic)? They helped me lower my system temperature a few degr. more (copper core) and are extremely silent (18 dB).

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Karl, Denmark
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"..and may The Force be with you - too..."

[This message has been edited by kallikru (edited 08-27-2001).]

wonderinguy34,

Ah yes, didn't think of that possible need. Good call. A shame if that's the only need for it.

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Bingo and Good Morning All, What a terrific response on such short notice. Lot to digest before tonight. And I hate to make snap decisions. I can't reply in detail at the moment. What about a digital camera to take pictures of this build or should I use a simple instamatic? Be back as I can. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

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Pictures, video? Hmmm. The intention here is not to make some "GreenGoose1 does BX-board" porn video or sell some pictures to Pent(ium)House magazine is it? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

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If you are asking for reccomendations for a digital cam....the company I work for sells several brands and so far the best I have seen is the sony....especially the ones that use a floppy disk over the memory stick ones and you can get the low end sony mavica for around 279.00 and the quality is extremely high......

Want a cheap camera with acceptable results and flexibilty?

I use the Intel Pocket PC Camera. http://www.intel.com/pccamera/pocket.htm

It's a combination webcam and portable digital camera. Holds up to 120 pictures and exports as JPG, so no need to convert a proprietary format. The picture quality is passable, but has no flash feature. Using indoors with good lighting. Here is some samples that were all taken with this camera:
http://members.home.net/glassportpa/phototour.htm

Also the pictures I took of my machine were taken with the Intel camera. The best news is with the occasional sale and rebate...you can get this critter for about $100 US. I got mine at Best Buy.

You could always set it up as a webcam and we can watch you build this thing with a live feed...LOL. Of course you won't be able to do this lounging around in your underwear. You will have to put on a suit. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

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Hell hath no fury like a computer scorned.

MAXXIMILIAN'S

[This message has been edited by maxximilian (edited 08-27-2001).]

[This message has been edited by maxximilian (edited 08-27-2001).]

The only comment(s) I have is perhaps (as already mentioned) avoid a molded front on the case. Have worked with those and they're a bit of a pain. That floppy drive gets just slightly out of kilter and you start getting read "errors". As far as burners, like DrMDJ said, they're a lot of gooduns' out there. I kinda lean towards the HP 9000 series or Plextor.
The InWin engineering is excellent, but Antecs are nothing to sneeze at either. Next case will be an Antec full tower, but currently using the InWin S500---like it a lot (no bandaids necessary).

P.S.: I believe the S500 came with a little packet of brass mobo standoffs. It will not take the plastic snap-in type. Always a good idea to have a few extras on hand--they often include the exact amount for the case--no extras. If you order the case off the net and they give you the option to get extra standoffs with the case, do it. Not all brass standoffs have the same thread. If you order standoffs from a different source, you may or may not receive the right ones for that particular case.



[This message has been edited by bistro (edited 08-27-2001).]

Thanks for additional info, that is except for DrMDJ. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ What an idea. LOL



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You asked about tools. Just about all you'll really need is a small Phillips-head and small slothead screwdriver. But if you are going to do any general tinkering, a 25-piece computer tool kit (i.e. Belkin, Curtis) is all you would really need. No need to get one of those 565-piece Deluxe Nuclear Engineer tool kits ("...for only six easy monthly payments of 99.95...Be the envy of your computer-geek friends!!").
Regular tools can work, but can also become magnetized easily--not really good for working on systems (I plead guilty though). The computer tool kit variety can't be magnetized.

[This message has been edited by bistro (edited 08-27-2001).]

EDIT: Image failed. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Wasn't important, though....

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Hell hath no fury like a computer scorned.

MAXXIMILIAN'S

[This message has been edited by maxximilian (edited 08-27-2001).]

Was able to check all the links all of you posted at lunch. At least I'm not entering the den in complete ignorance thanks to everybody. You gave me enough options so I might be able to fill the cart. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

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what's the exact model of this abit mobo?


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Remember, there is always something we forgot to ask.
And, it's only FREE advice!

Kind regards, Jaak

Mentioned right at the beginning Jaak, a BX133-RAID.

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Boy, go away for the day,(wife gets a little upset if i don't work)and look at all the information I've missed. Just based on the posts so far I am really looking forward to this project, and it's not even me that's building.. yet... https://discussions.virtualdr.com/ https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Ok, for a CPU I would recommend an AMD over the P3.
For a mobo, an Epox 8kta3+ (unless you want to use DDR)
For a case One of these

Just my $.10(inflation) https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

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[This message has been edited by ceh383 (edited 08-27-2001).]

Good Morning All, Last night was a disaster for aquiring components. This is all I was able to buy on my list.

Two WD 40GB Hard Drives

Two sticks 256 RAM

What an experience. Let's see I drive a total of two hundred twenty some odd miles which at .32 a mile is a cost of $70.40. That could be alot of shipping expense.

I not only went to Fry's, but Office Depot, Circuit City, and Best Buy. Fry's had a couple of fairly knowledgable people in the components section who were trained to sell upgrade to what the customer wants. Really slick how they do it. Other than that my typewritten list could have been in the Manderin language. The CPU, MOBO, and cases I asked for got me blank looks. And these are big stores.

When I called Fry's the other day they also assured me they had Win98SE OEM for $99.00.
Last night they were out but will have it in "a couple of weeks".

I want dependability and stability without having to pay an arm and a leg in this unit. Is that asking to much? https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

I received better resource info from you people right here on our VirDr Hardware forum than I have any where else.

In effect, it is now back to the drawing board. Should I reevaluate and restudy the components again? Looks like I'll have to send for some at least.

I do have one bit of advice for anyone contemplating building. Have patience, do your homework, and don't get in to big of a hurry.

I saw alot of cases last night and only three Antec, no Inwins.

I checked prices on the pentiums against AMD with AMD being much cheaper and that is after Intel just dropped their prices.

Ok then, I guess we need to start moving in another direction to get what I need. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/




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If that memory you bought is PC133 I'd suggest the KK266plus MOTHERBOARD,depending on your budget , it supports 700mhz DURONS or up to 1.6Tbirds and according to this review will work with the New Palimino(athlon4) when it comes out.The KK266+ has onboard 6channel hardware based audio ,so you'll save the expense of needing to buy a sound card(unless your an extreme audiophile).The Review also says they're available at FRY'S.The rest of the components you chose will work in the KK266plus,so you won't have to adjust much ,as long as the case you get has a good 300watt power supply.

I've got one setting right beside me and if it weren't for the incompetence of the place I ordered it from I'd have a 1.2GHZ 266DDR Tbird as well,they sent a 200DDR so I'm waitng for a replacement https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

Just my two cents,
WG34

Goose, give some serious thought and consideration to ordering at least some of your components from either www.compgeeks.com
or www.pricewatch.com

even with the shipping I have saved my customers tons of money at times by using these sites.

Unfortunately, a lot of those big outlets have hired summer help--most of which are not very knowledgable when it comes to computer components---all they know is this or that name brand of a complete system. Don't settle for less than you want, greengoose. You're compiling a good list there.
The only InWin case I saw around the DC/Virginia area was the InWin A500--not a good model at all. Had to order the S-version off the net.

I agree that I will have to order some of the components and will look over the alternative suggestions later today. Some good points have been posted and for those of you wanting to do the same thing, take good notes, because these posts are by people with knowledge and experience. You have to have both to be good.

All I want to do is build a computer - not become a logistics expert. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/


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OK, Goose...looks like you are taking it to the net on this one. You may want to check THIS SITE for reviews of online vendors. I used CPU Solutions for my stuff. They gave me no trouble and had a good rating. There are cheaper vendors, though. I have heard some good things about New Egg for prices and service.

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Hell hath no fury like a computer scorned.

MAXXIMILIAN'S

A few other sites:
www.directron.com (good service--got the InWin and some other neato-keeno stuff from them).
www.plycon.com ---good folks, fast service
www.caseetc.com ---ditto

Can't wait to get home to check all this "stuff" out. https://discussions.virtualdr.com/

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www.refurbed.com

Ma & Pa's Used Computers Parts and Deli (Nepal branch)

Billy Joe Bob's PC Cases, Very Ltd

Monitors: www.degauss_it.com

Vacuum Tubes "r" Us