Dual Booting NT Svr and Win98Se - Torture

Ok, I've come to the conclusion that either my developers want me to be the most well rounded IT geek they know, or they can't pass up the opportunity to torture me. Here's the dilly yo:

I need to set up a dual boot machine, running both NT Server 4.0, and Windows 98Se. I've never setup a dual boot before, because, well, I just never needed that many OS's at once. I'm sure the linux weenies are squirming, so I'll get right to it. Couple o' questions:

I install the consumer OS (Win98) on a FAT16 partition correct?

I install this OS FIRST, correct?

I then install NT on a second FAT16 partition right?

Then, I modify the boot.ini to point to the consumer OS as well as NT, right?

Ok, then, what are the settings I need to modify in the boot.ini file?

And lastly, what is the average airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

Tanx!

J

My tip:

Create a small (about 200 mb) boot part in fat16 to be c: (primary part on primary master disk). Create an extended part, size 2 - 10 gb or something) and 2 logical parts in that one, one for win 9x and one for NT. These can be in fat16 as well for making them accessible from both OS.

First install win 9x on d: (first logical part in extended part) and after that NT on the remaining part.

NT will be the OS that loads, showing a boot menu that lets you choose between win9x and NT. This menu is shown automatically becuase NT detects win9x and makes it startable.

You can decide what OS to be the default at bootup either by editing boot.ini or by opening startup/shutdown by right clicking on my computer, choosing properties and startup/shutdown.

Good Luck!

[This message has been edited by DrMaxx (edited 10-03-2000).]

Awsome! Thanks. That's exactly what I needed!

J

Doh! I need to implement before closing out the thread.

Quick question then, what goes on the boot partition?

I've installed 98Se on the D:\ partition (as you said), and will install NT on the E:\. But, what does the boot partition do, and what goes on it? Is the pagefile.sys on there? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

https://discussions.virtualdr.com/im.../2000/10/1.jpg

[This message has been edited by JShpidah (edited 10-03-2000).]

The boot partition will contain only the bootup files like autoexec.bat, config.sys, boot.ini... nothing else... But it is a good place for different utilities like disk utilities, pack progs and small stuff like that.

Ok, so without sounding like a total newbie, after running the NT Setup, does it NOT find any mass storage devices? Is it just that the SCSI card is not one of the default for NT installation? Should I use boot disks then, if that's the case?

If it doesn't find the SCSI card during setup you will have to load 3rd party drivers for them, you get that option during install (2nd part). You don't need any horrible boot disks. Just load the SCSI drivers when you get the option to do so during install.

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AMD650 Mhz, K7V, 128Mgb RAM, Matrox Millenium G400 32Mb, SBLive!, 3Com 3C905C
Windows 98 SE + Windows NT 4.0 Workstation

Visit our webiste! -> N-Show 2000

I've found in the past that the best solution for a Win98 / NT4 dual boot system is:

1) remove all the partitions on the HD using something like delpart or fdisk.
2) Run the NT install from the boot floppies
3) During the install create a two 2GB partitions and format the first as FAT16 and the second and NTFS (This is the biggest partition NTFS partition you can create during install because the setup program creates a FAT16 partition and converts it to NTFS!!!!). Install NT4 on to the newly created NTFS partition.
4) Run the Win98 setup from NT and install it into the FAT16 partition...
5) Use a partitioning tool (for example partition magic) to expand the NTFS partition to sizes larger than 2GB.

There are varrious other setup configuration possible...but the above is about the best...

BTW the PC's I setup for the software engineers in my company have to multi boot Dos/WFW3.11/Win98/Win NT and Win2k...So think yourself lucky you only need two operating systems!!!

BBFN
Dave

2) Run the NT install from the boot floppies

Why??? You don't need to do that in a situation like this. FIRST Windows 98! I'll give you two reasons:

1. Smartdrv is avalaible for Windows NT (through Windows 98) when it shall copy it's files. Reduces installation time by at least 15 minutes!
2. You don't need the damned floppies.
winnt /S X\[PATH]\i386 /X/B
Will make them go away and reduces installation time by at least 5 minutes.

3) During the install create a two 2GB partitions and format the first as FAT16 and the second and NTFS (This is the biggest partition NTFS partition you can create during install because the setup program creates a FAT16 partition and converts it to NTFS!!!!).

Hmm.... becuase NT can handle larger cluster size it can create up to 4Gb. If you want to hack a little you can create as large as you want.

4) Run the Win98 setup from NT and install it into the FAT16 partition...

If you're lucky, Windows 98 will add itself to the bootloader. Probably not, so you'll have to repair the bootsector, that most often work. I don't suggest this method. Mine will add the multiboot option automatically.

5) Use a partitioning tool (for example partition magic) to expand the NTFS partition to sizes larger than 2GB.

Well... boot partitions shouldn't be larger, really. People use to big. It's better to split the HD up in partitons to increase performance.

BTW the PC's I setup for the software engineers in my company have to multi boot Dos/WFW3.11/Win98/Win NT and Win2k...So think yourself lucky you only need two operating systems!!!

Well... been there done that.... I've also multibooted two distributions of LInux... https://discussions.virtualdr.com/




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AMD650 Mhz, K7V, 128Mgb RAM, Matrox Millenium G400 32Mb, SBLive!, 3Com 3C905C
Windows 98 SE + Windows NT 4.0 Workstation

Visit our webiste! -> N-Show 2000

I second to that Qwemliis!!!

Thanks to everyone for their replies. This is what I ended up doing:

Since it's a Compaq floor server (tower), you have to run the Smart Start CD's to create a diagnostic's partition. Not a big deal. In most OS's (NT, 2000) this actually ends up saving you a great deal of time during the OS load, but in this case, it's just a pain. So, I configure it to run "Other" which is what they save for consumer OS's. After the 39mb diagnostics partition is created, I boot to the 98 floppy, create a primary partition of about 200mb (in case I need to dump some drivers or whatever) using FAT16 (with the FDisk utility). Then I create an extended partition (FAT16) using the rest of the drive (fortunately, it's only a 4gb drive) and split it into 2 logical drives (2gb a piece), the first for the consumer OS, and the second for the NT one. I loaded the consumer OS first, and tweaked it (drivers, NIC, etc). Then, I had to boot from the damned floppies for NT. Mainly because the SCSI card for these servers is not part of the NT initial driver listing. Went to the Compaq website, downloaded, put it on a floppy, no big deal. Finally got the NT os loaded, and it detected the consumer OS in the boot.ini. Tweaked it, dropped drivers, Service Packs, Option Packs, Browsers, CABS, the whole nine, and it works nicely. Edited the boot.ini to reflect which consumer OS I was running on each machine (varied from Win98Se, Win98Fe, WinMe - we dropped Win95B) and was golden from there on. I had some small questions about Win2k Pro, and why it doesn't create a boot.ini, but, I'll live without having to know. Thanks again to everyone who contributed.

On a side note, I would SINCERELY recommend using a software app called VMWare for creating running multiple OS installations, rather than multi-booting a machine. It runs from a window within the parent OS, and everything is virtual, including hardware. It sounds a little shaky, but they've got it ironed out pretty well. I'm not selling it, but I've got to administer a NT 4 based network, while testing on an Active Directory upgraded network, and it's works beautifully.

Tanx!

J

Qwemliis,

Just a few reasonings behind my previous posting and replies to your post:

1) The reason I suggested the NT then Win98 install order was that Win98 is NT aware and so adds itself to the NT boot menu (with the correct description not just MS-DOS!) and leaves the boot sector intact...

2) The main reason for suggesting the use of the boot floppies for installing the NT is that, although you have to swap the floppies in and out several times, this approach allows extra drivers (like the SP4 IDE driver for large HD support) to be used more easily...Also, after the initial delay with he floppies, I've never found the file copying process to be any slower than installing from Win98...

3) I know NT can use FAT16 partitions upto 4GB because of its larger cluster size...However, this has nothing to do with the limitations of the NT install program (which probably includes legacy rubish from the NT3.51 days!) when making NTFS partitions larger than 2GB...Try getting it to install into unpartioned space larger 2GB even selecting NTFS as the format...It won't like it one bit...As I said before the install program appears to create a non-NT FAT16 partition and then convert it to NTFS...and so it wont let you create an NTFS partion larger than 2GB...

4) Making the NT partion bigger with a partioning tool is in fact a more efficient way to run NT because of the way the NTFS works...Its always better to have one large partion than several smaller ones under this particular file system...

1) The reason I suggested the NT then Win98 install order was that Win98 is NT aware and so adds itself to the NT boot menu (with the correct description not just MS-DOS!) and leaves the boot sector intact...

Well... this has never happened to me or any of my friends. Not in Windows 2000 or NT. That's why I', warning!


2) The main reason for suggesting the use of the boot floppies for installing the NT is that, although you have to swap the floppies in and out several times, this approach allows extra drivers (like the SP4 IDE driver for large HD support) to be used more easily...Also, after the initial delay with he floppies, I've never found the file copying process to be any slower than installing from Win98...


But, what is hard by hitting a button (F5 I think) at a ceratain time during install???


3) I know NT can use FAT16 partitions upto 4GB because of its larger cluster size...However, this has nothing to do with the limitations of the NT install program (which probably includes legacy rubish from the NT3.51 days!) when making NTFS partitions larger than 2GB...Try getting it to install into unpartioned space larger 2GB even selecting NTFS as the format...It won't like it one bit...As I said before the install program appears to create a non-NT FAT16 partition and then convert it to NTFS...and so it wont let you create an NTFS partion larger than 2GB...


Well... I've done it. I have maked a 4Gb partition during install! NT first creates a FAT 16 partition and converts it to NTFS on the first boot. This torture is away, gone, nicht in Windows 2000. But I can install NT in a 4Gb partition, unpartitioned before. The limitations during install is the same for the FAT 16 and NTFS filesystems.


4) Making the NT partion bigger with a partioning tool is in fact a more efficient way to run NT because of the way the NTFS works...Its always better to have one large partion than several smaller ones under this particular file system...


Wich isn't really the thruth in my eyes... boot partitions shouldn't be so big and conation a lot of stuff becuase they'll get fragmented wich will lower performance. If you have a partition for booting NT in the beginning it will be faster. The first partitions is always the fastest.
Data can be at the end of a disc - if it is slow to read it... bah... no great harm.
Swap, in my opinion, should be at the boot partition and it should be a static Swapfile.
Applications should have it's own partition o make it faster then the data and it will make it easier to organise the apps.


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AMD650 Mhz, K7V, 128Mgb RAM, Matrox Millenium G400 32Mb, SBLive!, 3Com 3C905C
Windows 98 SE + Windows NT 4.0 Workstation

Visit our webiste! -> N-Show 2000