Need help with a home surveillance camera

This is about the only site I trust for technical help of any kind ;) Didn't know where to post this, so if there is an appropriate forum, would welcome a mod moving it.

My senior mother has reached a stage where she wants to continue to live in her own home, but needs some assistance. She has opted to hire a live in companion/aid. We've interviewed several agencies recommended by the local hospital social services dept. Each agency rep so far has encouraged putting "valuables" under lock and key, not only for our mother's peace of mind, but to protect their employees from false accusations that have occured in the past. I fully understand their reasoning, and we're taking appropriate measures that have not been already covered .

However, we'd like to install a couple surveilllance cameras. I checked, and to date it's not illegal in my state to do so without informing the live-in that the cameras are there. Not so much as a theft deterrent, but to be sure my mother is being treated well. (Sadly, elder abuse is not uncommon.) I live close and will pop in frequently, but my siblings still feel the cameras would be beneficial. Nothing fancy, but nothing easily detectible, as this woman will also do cleaning and cooking. Nothing invasive (no bathrooms or in aid's bedroom). Public rooms, where my mother spends most of her time, the living room desk area (it will still be locked) and one in the kitchen/dining/familiy room area.

How do these cameras work? Do I need a PC online and network to it? My mother has a PC, but I only use it for Quicken for her, so it's not online at present. If a PC is necessary, does it have to be internet ready or is there away around that? (I'm thinking if it stores images to HD, I can view there.)

This is completely foreign to me, so any suggestions for set-up are appreciated. Can I get sophisticated/reliable equipment at a Best Buy or Radio Shack, or do I need to go online? Suggestions for a qualified/reputable dealer would be appreciated.

~Kat

I'll leave the technical stuff to the more knowledgable...but there are many "spy shops" that sell pinhole cameras. Some of these are already installed in fake radios and clocks and such. Expensive, though....

On another note....I also have a handicapped mother. She isn't to the point of needing a personal living assistant yet (beyond what me and my brother do)...but I also would be concerned about a stranger in the home. I have seen the videos of elderly abuse too. They are disgusting.... :mad:

However (there is always a 'however' )...I also have a problem with covert video. The vast majority of people have nothing to hide and are generally trustworthy...but that doesn't mean we want to be seen scratching our butts or picking our noses. Also...the placing of cameras before there is any evidence of abuse or theft gives the impression of guilty until proven innocent...another item that bothers the trustworthy workers. I used to work in the security field and sometimes would have to review hidden camera videos. I have to tell ya....people act differently when they think they are alone. No matter how you slice it....hidden cameras are an invasion of privacy. Now the question of ends justifying means is always a tough one. The health and welfare of a loved in is pretty important to all of us. You have a tough call to make on notifying the worker or not.

If it were me in your position...I would place the hidden cameras, but would also inform the person they exist without disclosing their location. You can always claim they are in place for general home security (break-ins) rather than there to watch the aid. This is more likely to prevent the abuse rather than just catching it on video later. It also covers you in case the person decides that you invaded their privacy illegally or unethically...and tries to sue you later. I have seen this also happen...laws or no laws...people will still sue sometimes. Even if you won such a case...you will have had to spend money and time to defend.

Sorry for the speech...but your question touched on an issue I have been giving a great deal of thought to lately....privacy. And your problem is something I may have to deal with at some point soon.

Good luck with getting your mom set up... :)

Hey maxx,
You bring up some very valid points and they are well taken. I guess this is one of those ten sided coins.

We probably would not even be considering a camera were it not for a bad experience about 18 months ago. My mother was slapped by someone who had been there about a year on a part-time basis. (It stings to type those words, even today.) We are close, and I could tell by her behavior and little things she said that something had happened that was just not quite right. I kept trying to nudge whatever "it" was out of her when we'd be sitting and talking, but out of pride and I guess to protect her own sense of dignity, it was months later (and this person was no longer in her home) before she confirmed my worst suspicions and admitted what happened. To say my siblings and I were enraged is an understatement. So now the scenario of a caregiver is coming into play again, and we just can't chance a repeat. As much as the agencies keep saying this person "will be like family", until we get to know them well, they are still strangers. Even tho we are interviewing only agencies who are licensed, bonded, insured and do background checks, we are leery.

So I hope it makes a little better sense where we're coming from, and what's prompting this camera deal. We'll be popping in and out a lot, unannounced, but even still, based on experience, that is no guarantee...

I should have elaborated a little regarding the law statement I made above. I was doing some googling before I posted yesterday and stumbled onto a site that mentions some states now (13 as of 2006 if I recall) presense of a video camera must be revealed, no matter what the scenario. My state it's still "optional". On the flip side of the "do tell/don't tell" issue, I'm sure knowing the presence of cameras is there would make anyone ill at ease, which is not our goal. I come from a long line of southerners, and we are a family that makes anyone welcome and like people to feel comfortable in our homes. So do we tell, don't we? Not sure. (I wonder perhaps, if just the mere suggestion of a camera is enough to ward off any potential mistreatment.) If we do go with cameras, I want them set up before an aid comes in. I do not want it to appear as if they are there striclty because of her, it will upset the "good" aid. Again on the flip side, if I were in the aid's postition, one who is not prone to mistreatment or ill-temper, I would certainly be uneasy at best, and never really feel "at home" if I knew certain rooms were being monitored. And there are aids out there who are literally angels (have witnessed that scenaio with in-laws). So if the aid we hire truly is a gentle caring soul we do want her to feel part of the family and at home.

We certainly don't want to invade anyone's privacy. Nor do I wish to see some of the things you alluded to :eek:
But we can't bear the thought of our mother having a bad experience and keeping it to herself so she doesn't burden us (in her mind) or lose her dignity. And keeping it to herself is exactly what she would do were it to happen again. She just would not bring it up. (Another thing, one of her meds is known to cause easy bruising. We didn't mention that side effect to one agency owner we interviewed, but boy , she knew about it and jumped on it. She said, while shooting a sideways glance at the aid she had brought with her 'Oh, that medication makes bruises all the time, at the slightest touch, and they last for months'. (Not true, overly stated, and her tone was not one of observation but of substantiation, like she was covering tracks before the tracks were even made. As far as my sister and I are concerned, she immediately pulled her agency out of the running with the tone in which that comment was presented.)


~sigh~ tough call, indeed. Lots of ethical/moral issues. Bottom line is protecting mom. I do think you've offered a good middle of the road suggestion that covers all the bases, protects mom, doesn't offend, etc. and that's 'security reasons'. (There was a rash of break-ins in her town, while her home was vacant while she was in a lengthy hospital stay.)

I'm glad to see you have put alot of thought into this. Too many people are slapping cameras up like they are a homegrown CIA or something...

BTW...states differentiate between video and audio. If you plan to record audio along with video...you will need to check those laws too. You may just want to stick with silent video to avoid adding complications. Then again...verbal abuse can be just as bad as physical. Damn this is a complicated subject....LOL :D

Most of the chain stores like Best Buy and Circuit city sell home security surveillence camera kits. You get a camera, some wires, and some software. Many can be set up for live feeds over the internet to your home or office if you wanted to monitor in real time. Some are wired...some are wireless. The variety is endless and is going to take some research and decisions regarding exactly what you need. As I mentioned...the Spy Shops would likely have a better selection to do what you want to do. The basic electronic/appliance stores lean toward out in the open security....not covert. The last thing Best Buy wants is to be named in a lawsuit where some degenerate kid installs a mini-camera in the girls locker room at school...and uploads to the net. ;)

Going wired?

The standard webcams are pretty small and can be hidden with a little creative thought. Hollow out a clock or similar device that would have a wire and thus not be noticed. Run the wire to a locked room or basement where the aid is not supposed to go and set up a PC with recording software. Most webcams can be set for motion-detection too...so less wasted HD space. Have a big HD to record alot so you don't have to check it every day. This is a makeshift way of doing it. Hidden cameras means a bit of work on your part...including hiding wires...unless you go wireless and that means more money....

If you are really in the dark about all this....and considering the importance of what you want to do...you may want to consider the Spy Shops. They have kits to do exactly what you want without having to "rig" things. You can run searches on "Nanny cams" and will like get a good many hits regarding this subject. Money is the big difference.....

Before you go shopping for equipment....you need to determine exactly what you want to accomplish. If you are not going to tell the aid about the cameras....look at the spy shops. If you are telling her...then you can afford to have one of your cameras sitting on top of a PC right there in the living room...bright red light on and all. That's a deterrent in that room anyway. (password protect the PC). The rest could be hidden....and the one out in the open would be cheap (not counting the PC)....

There is so much to consider in terms of camera angles...blind spots...storage space, etc....

When a security outfit sets up a camera system in a building....they plan 100 times longer than the actual installation.

BTW...even if you opt not to tell the aid there are cameras...she will likely know after awhile anyway. Your behavior when you visit (checking the locked room, etc) will tip off most people that they are being watched. Your mother's behavior will tip them off too...if she happens to stare at the camera location too long. The longer the cameras are in place...the more likely they will be discovered. People are more perceptive than we give them credit for. It takes some good sneaking skills to keep your secret for any length of time.

In short...don't make a bee-line for the locked room when you visit. :D

Kat, I think Max has raised some issues that you need to think about, and decide which way you want to go. Once you made the choice of whether to go covert or overt it will be much easier to help with the technicalities.

FWIW, my job sometimes takes me into places that are covered by CCTV, and I personally have no problem with knowing that the cameras are there and that I'm being filmed going about my work. The way I look at it though, is that overt cameras, are there as a deterrent, and everybody knows where they stand. Covert cameras, it seems to me, is where you wan't to catch somebody in an act, rather than act as a deterrent.

I just wanted to thank you both for further input. I've not been back till now, been busy getting things taken care of. I can tell you one thing based on our experience: if anyone's looking to make an honest buck, there's a vast untapped market out there for quality care for our elders. I didn't set up a camera. Yet. I'm so ticked off with this whole deal at this stage I'm ready to go buy about 3 cheapy web cams and plunk them right in the middle of certain rooms (even if they're not hooked up, I'll settle for a light that blinks). And then specifically point each one out. Pardon my cynical tone, it's not been a good experience. In the first few weeks alone we've encountered missing items, a request for 2 hours off for personal medical reasons that lasted 16 hours (as a friend told me, she could have driven to Atantla and had lunch with her sister there in that amount of time), although we were assured this was an 'experienced' cook, the house regularly filled with smoke from the oven. (Neighbor thought the house was on fire, there was so much gray smoke billowing out the exhaust vent on the back of the house. That does wonders for a person on oxygen.) Hours locked away in 'her' room, whining to my mother (a very early riser) 'why do we have to get up so early, can't we sleep in'? Vacuuming once in a 4 week period (furniture cloaked in dust is also good for oxygen users). When we suggested vacuuming at least weekly, she simply stomped up to her room in a huff. Oh, yeah, let's not forget the incidents (repeated) of asking a family member (minor) to procure adults only material. :rolleyes: What a racket. Thanks for letting me vent.

Sounds like a nightmare, Kat..... :(

I'd like to say your situation is rare....but I never seem to hear good stories about adult care. The emphasis has always been on child care....so regulators have missed the entire other end of the spectrum.

Are you using an agency....or did you hire privately?

An agency. But it's kind of a joke. I think they recruit these ladies from overseas, say they do a background check on them (but if they've not been in the US that long, there's not going to be much of a background). And some of the things I described above don't show up on a background check. "Ms. xyz: charged with excessive napping after consuming cheesy daytime TV in 2001; contributed to ozone layer damage- charge reduced to misdemeanor - no actual flames involved; attempting to contribute to delinquency of a minor, charges reduced due to lack of physical evidence (no pun intended)" :eek:

And those of us who are baby boomers really should get a handle on these types of issues - we're next in line. :rolleyes:

I don't know much about that business....except I have heard that qualifications are pretty lax in some states. Just about anybody qualifies....

I found this:

http://stats.bls.gov/oco/ocos173.htm

Some interesting points are the low qualification standards in some places....but also the extremely low wages for someone in charge of giving care to another person. :eek: The agencies must be taking a huge cut as the middleman.....and also explains why the quality worker is always a factor. When you are only paying a little above minimum wage in many cases....you aren't going to get someone who really cares about their job. That's fine for a cashier at the 7-11....if he doesn't care you might get shorted on your change when you buy a borito...but nobody is going to get hurt.

I'm not saying that everyone who works for a low wage is somehow lazy or uncarring. On the contray...I think they if they had a decent wage...they are more likely to do a good job. You get what you pay for essentially....but there are exceptions.

But I digress..... :D

I think we are past the technical side of this problem now and you need to get into a forum that deals with these human issues. I'm sure a Google will turn up something. Then afterward....we can get back into the camera issues. Or maybe this thread should go into the off-topic forum for more input other than tech. Up to the mods there....

Kat can make that decision, if she wants the thread moved to the Lounge then I'll be happy to do so - it may get a wider audience there. But as far as I'm concerned it's not a big deal if the odd thread strays OT occasionally.

Good grief! I didn't catch where this thread landed. Know I'm on overload lately but would swear I started it in the Lounge because I didn't know where to put it. (Didn't know a Gadgets/Widgets/Doohickies forum had even been added - but them I've been out of the loop :rolleyes: )

Sorry 'bout that, I wouldn't have gone on so OT. :o

But thank you SS, for the bit of room to breathe (and vent) ;)

I think you did start it in the Lounge, and it got moved into this new forum when it opened - it is an ideal subject for it :) Just in case you thought you were going insane :D

Ha! Thanks for clarifying. And yes, for a moment there I did think I might have been losing it :D