Printable View
Anyone have some experience with a HP Vectra VL 6/xxx Series 6 PC. I would like to upgrade a clients Hard-Disk, planning on flashing bios to HD.07.07 (the latest on the HP site dated 29 Jun 1999, the support for this product would have ended years ago), anyone know what is the highest Hard-Disk this will take. thankyou.
Yes it has discontinued support but you can still find support if you search HP's website. Which I did and found largest drive supported is 4.3gb.
Hope this helps!!
Max cpu for that is 333 mghtz. most everything of that era supported up to 32 gb drives. The next lower bios limit was 8.4 gigs.
I would venture to say 32 gig would be the bios limit. If your running win 98 that would be a good size drive for the time!
Now of course you can use drive overlay programs or ide controller cards to see drives as big as you pretty much want to go!
Now if your customer is using fat 16 which he is probably not. The limit for fat 16 is 2.1 gigs. Now if he is running Win 98 your max for Microsoft Fdisk (win 98 start up disk) is around 60 gigs. You can get around this limit with a third party partitioning program tho!
Most bios limitations were .... that I can remember (so take it with a grain of salt) 540 meg, 2.1 gig, 8.4 gig, 32 gig, 127 gig.
I feel pretty comfortable that 32 gig is your limit!
can you please post me the link.Quote:
Originally posted by photolady
Yes it has discontinued support but you can still find support if you search HP's website. Which I did and found largest drive supported is 4.3gb.
Hope this helps!!
JAL, please don't guess. I need specifics, not guesses.Quote:
Originally posted by J A L
Max cpu for that is 333 mghtz. most everything of that era supported up to 32 gb drives. The next lower bios limit was 8.4 gigs.
I would venture to say 32 gig would be the bios limit. If your running win 98 that would be a good size drive for the time!
Most bios limitations were .... that I can remember (so take it with a grain of salt) 540 meg, 2.1 gig, 8.4 gig, 32 gig, 127 gig.
I feel pretty comfortable that 32 gig is your limit!
This is one of the worst tables one could put out, but have a look here. It seems the largest drive is roughly 8gb. Their statement about booting up with a 137gb drive is totally meaningless.
Thankyou, you're not wrong.Quote:
Originally posted by DrMDJ
This is one of the worst tables one could put out, but have a look here. It seems the largest drive is roughly 8gb. Their statement about booting up with a 137gb drive is totally meaningless.
JAL, see what I mean about not guessing.
Since DrM got in here before I could, ;), it seems he's maybe sorted you out on that computer. Howerver, if you are still interested below is the link to support for that particular computer.
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport...&lang=en&cc=us
Thats once again the problem when dealing with proprietary systems. When the 333 pentium II came out there were already 10+ gig drives out. So logically you would think a bios flash would have been offered, that would at least support drives of the same era. Another good reason to build your own system! Most every generic Motherboard Manufacturer offers flash upgrades for things like this of that time!
Sorry if the logical assumption (guess) was wrong and caused you any trouble.
But seriously I have never, never ever seen a 333 mghtz system with a 8.4 hard drive limit. Just about the time pentium II's came out the bios limitations for hard drives just started jumping to 32 gigs. So it is really baffeling as to why HP would have a limit of 8.4 and even more baffeling as to why they didn't offer a flash upgrade to see bigger drives. This can be frustrating because alot of proprietary system makers of the time and even today are behind in what is current and so proprietary in thier hardware. NEM1S1S you did right in posting here. I would have said I would have been 99.9% sure I was right on my guess!
For a 8.4 gig hard drive size limit .... you cannot buy a new hard drive that size anymore (unless you find one someone has had on the shelf for over five years just sitting there)! So I would look into a controller card as I posted earlier or a overlay program from the hard drive manufacturer as I posted earlier. If you do have some old stuff laying around then 8.4 gig is your limit as you already now know. With a FREE overlay program, you could go to 127 gigs with win 98. Also most overlay programs allows windows to see the hard drive size correctly but it won't see the hard drive size correctly in the bios and that is what HP is talking about on the table that DrMDJ linked.
Just a couple quick notes...
1) HP's 7.9gb limit does indeed equate to what's more commonly referred to as the 8.4gb limit (should have noted this the first time). The difference is a matter of whether you are basing things on 1000 or 1024.
2) I personally don't think HP's notation about booting off a 137gb disk in the chart I linked factored in any disk overlays. I think they were just saying that in their tests with a 137gb drive hooked up the system would not hang during initial boot (when bios is collecting drive info). Many pc bioses would hang if a drive size was beyond its native capabilities to handle it.
3) Given the choice between using a disk overlay and an add-on controller card my vote would definately go to the controller card option. Just a whole lot less potential hassles.
Never seen a system hang with a bigger hard drive. It simply won't recognized the additional space beyond it's hard drive bios size limmitation. So of course they're talking about using a hard drive overlay program of some sort to see a bigger drive in windows.
As for the overlay program verses the controller card. I too would go the controller card route. But it seems this is a old system and money is a concern. Controller cards cost money and overlay programs are free.
Overlay programs are great and have used them for many years to overcome bios limitations. The only problems I see are if your data becomes damaged (due to hard drive damage, or possible virus activity). Recovering data from a drive with a overlay program can be a nightmare if not impossible. So there are risks if damage occurs but for the most part they work just fine. This is a old system by todays standards and that figures in on what you spend money on. I have seen people spend a lot of money on systems that simply aren't worth it. It would be cheaper to get a slightly newer box for less money or use free programs to offfset your costs so you can continue running older equiptment.
I have always liked free!
DrMDJ overlay programs would never work if the hard drive is not seen. The hard drive has to be seen in the bios for the overlay program to work. Therefore all hard drives and systems would not cause a "hang" as you say. Of course I reserve the right to remove that comment should their be some rediculas proprietary system out there, that I have never seen that has some non-generic configuration that on purpose hangs so you have to upgrade with a newer computer.
Well trust me, there were quite a few systems that would hang at post when a drive larger than they could handle was put in them. Didn't say all did this, but many did. The reason generally was because the bios drive detection routines would cause a rapping (bit overflow) effect in the fields used to hold size info (generally the cylinders field). This would cause mass confusion and a hang. These (potential) hangs were a main reason that hard drive manufacturers started putting capacity limiting jumpers on drives.
You are correct in saying that the bios must see a drive before an overlay can be used. But the operative word is that "a" (aka some) drive must be seen. That is why with overlays one frequently either sets a capacity limiting jumper on a drive, or manually enters a guaranteed manageable size in bios (generally 1023cyls, 16heads, 63trks/sec = 527/504mb). This enables any bios to see "a" drive, boot from it (using its limited interupt 13 capabilities) without any potential hangs, and pass control to the overlay code in the mbr load and then filter further int 13 calls (by the os or software).
A controller card would cost some money, but really not all that much. But yes, free is always good.
Overlays can and do work, no question. But they can cause issues with anything else that might mess with the mbr and overwrite the overlay's code. They also can be a hassle in terms of some OS loads/setups because you have to make sure during the boot process that the overlay loads first. So, say, things like booting from a cd can be a problem. Also, once an overlay is used, if you decide to later do away with the overlay (because its not needed any more) then the drive can be unreadable and require repartitioning/reformatting. Thats because the physical/logical translation used to access the sectors is different under the overlay vs with an LBA or even entended interupt 13 supporting bios (be it on a motherboard or add-on card). Because of the difference, the new bios may not be able to make head nor tails of the drive in it's state from when the overlay was controlling things. Have seen this many a time.
So it's not that overlays don't work or are worthless. Just that they have some gotchas. And I find the gotchas generally not worth the trouble these days (with alternatives).
Yep DrMDJ everything you say about overlay programs is true and accurate! They have many potential flaws due to virus activity or even bad sectors showing up on the drive.
Mostly I see the bios will set up a drive at the maximum it can detect. for instance if a drive is 20 gigs but you have a bios limitation of 8.4 gigs then the bios will set it up at 8.4 gigs and the rest of the space is pretty much undetected.
I really have never seen a hang yet. I didn't say it wouldn't happen... I just meant I had never seen it. I do trust that you have seen it though!!
I do understand what you posted and it does sound possible some bios's will go into a loop and never detect a drive.
Can't imagine why anyone would program a bios like that from the manufaturer though. A simple bios flash should and would correct that sort of thing.
If no flash is available then I would never recommend or expect anyone to buy a system or motherboard from that manufacturer again. Support is certainly something to consider when you buy a computer and the lack of support is simply something you should consider as part of what decision you make when you don't buy a system. In other words weigh the pro's and con's before you spend your money!
Older systems to me are great if they are working but I wouldn't spend too much on them. If they are not working and you cannot fix them many charities take them and you can deduct the value off your taxes too!
But to get back on subject here. How much is a controller card for that system? Well I checked new egg to find out. It is a bit less than $30.00 with shipping for a good promise card. I am sure you could find a cheaper card though but I really like Promise cards. How much are you going to spend on a new drive? Do you have to pay a tech to set it up for you? Are you also transfering data over to your new drive? All these factor into the cost on what to pay for the upgrade.
Now how much for a bigger hard drive? Of course remember you can use your old smaller drive on a system as a second drive. So you can get more space that way too.
With old systems it's all about the money and what you need/want your computer to do! That should drive your decision on whether to upgrade or get a newer system. If your old system can do what you want and the price to upgrade is ok then upgrading is the way to go!
Yep I have seen that too! Upgrading to a new board will most likely be problems with a new bios, If your using a overlay on the hard drive. *sad* But a bios flash should "not" have any effect on a drive in the same system.Quote:
Because of the difference, the new bios may not be able to make head nor tails of the drive in it's state from when the overlay was controlling things. Have seen this many a time.
DrMDJ very well said!
There ya have it folks the pros and cons to overlay hard drive programs!
:D
LOL. I know you've been around long enough to know that when it comes to how people program things that you cannot always count on quality. Being a "programmer" (of any kind) doens't mean one is a "good programmer".;) And sometimes there actually are legitimate reasons for doing something at one point in time, but that come back to bite ya down the road.Quote:
Can't imagine why anyone would program a bios like that from the manufaturer though. A simple bios flash should and would correct that sort of thing.
Certainly a bios flash could correct the situation. But, as you know, sometimes it doesn't pay to keep putting out updates for bioses (like programs). Eventually, and rightfully, its legit to say "that's it". And in the case of something like drive size and the bios, the update can (could be) a little tricky, requiring some field size changes or the like, which can have other implications, which may mean more than the simple update intented, yada, yada, yada. Again, so it may not be worth it.