Dual HDD problem

We've got a Dell 8100 that is the main machine at our business. We want to copy the HDD and shelve it for backup. So we put in two removable drive bays so the backup can easily be taken out. The main HDD could then be removed if compromised and the backup HDD put in it's place.

Both removable drive bays are on IDE 1, with the original (hdd 0) on the end of the ribbon and HDD 1 on the middle connector. IDE 2 has the DVD-ROM drive connected on the end of the ribbon.

I'm unable to boot with the original HDD after removing the copied drive. I get an error that HDD 1 can't be found. I've tried every jumper position available on the drive with no results. I'm thinking that the ribbon being attached to the empty bay is causing the problem. Checking in the BIOS at this point shows neither HDD nor the DVD-ROM as being installed.

If I put the second HDD back in, I can boot normally.

Any ideas on this problem?

Now for the second problem.

When I first connected the second drive, (WD 60G) I thought I'd partition and format with the w2k drive management utility. While it could see it (unallocated space), it wouldn't give me the option to create a partition (greyed out). So I opened PartitionMagic 8 and all it could see was a "BAD" 10MB partition. We took the drive back to Neocomputers and the person there was able to format it with NTFS as it wouldn't do a FAT32 format. I brought it back and was now able to delete the NTFS partition, create a new partition and Ghost the HDD 0 drive onto it. Ended up FAT32.

Now w2k disk management shows it as "healthy" FAT32 and active. PM 8 still only shows a "BAD" 10MB partition. However, when I try to boot with only this drive I get a "No OS could be found" error. All the files including NTLDR and NTdetect are there.

Personally I think the drive is bad right out of the box.

Soooo, any ideas are greatly appreciated.

Run the Data Lifeguard Tools diagnostic program and see what they have to say. Sure helps out when you return them to have what it says handy.

I know this is not a proper fix, but maybe you could a small drive on the cable (set the same as your backup drive) as a 'Dummy" or "placeholder" if you have one available. Just a thought.

You may have to set up the hard drive as removable medial so you can eject it. Also in order for a hard drive to be bootable certain files have to be in certain places on the drive, first sector. Just copying the boot files to the drive doesn't grantee it will be bootable. You may have better luck using Norton ghost or a drive image program. Maybe backup does this but it sounds like it doesn't until you do the restore feature.

alpha, I did use Ghost to copy the drive. However I may have done a partition to partition instead of a disk to disk. I'll redo the Ghosting tonite after hours.

Edit: I've also located another 10G drive to try.

OK your way ahead of me. I would think either way should work, Part to part or drive to drive, if your copying the pri part. I have only dreamed of doing what you are doing so I am interested to see how it turns out. How does the drive select work, are there jumpers on the BAY or do you have to change the ones on the drive?

To speed up the transfer, set both hdds to master. Put the origanal C: On the primary and the new one on the secondary. Saves lots of problems and definately speeds things up.
By using a ATA100 card, it takes about 6 minutes to clone about 6GB intead of 28 minutes on the same ribbon. With both hdds bootable If I switch the ribbon it will boot to the other hdd.

I checked the Ghost site and apparently Ghost v5.01 isn't up to the job on drives this large. The only copy of Ghost 2002 I had with me couldn't be read by the machine. This is probably the reason I'm getting the errors with the first 10MB.

Turns out that 10G drive I found is really 26G. Tried another ghost with v5.01 and came up with all the same errors. When I switch the drives I get a "No OS found" error. PartitionMagic is still seeing a "bad" first 10MB on the drive.

This machine is real picky on which boot disk it will boot to. Out of 5 I've tried, it only likes and will boot to 1 of them.

I've made 2 more boot disks (one CD and one floppy) to try tomorrow nite. If I can get it to read the Ghost 2k2 file I'll post back the results.

Train, can I put the original HDD on IDE 1 with the DVD as master on IDE 2 and the spare HDD as slave on IDE 2? I'd really like to be able to pull the one HDD and still be able to boot to the other.

Speed really isn't an issue as all I want to do is copy the darn drive and pull the copy for safe keeping. Geez, I've done this a hundred times before, and this one's as stubborn as my ex spouse...lol

That is the way I would set it up using just the IDE.


If you can, spring for 2002 or 2003 if available. Worth it.
Also, might be well worth your time and money to get some new floppies and make new bootdisks and then test them. You can set the cdrom letter, etc. easy to do.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Train
To speed up the transfer, set both hdds to master. Put the origanal C: On the primary and the new one on the secondary. Saves lots of problems and definately speeds things up.
By using a ATA100 card, it takes about 6 minutes to clone about 6GB intead of 28 minutes on the same ribbon. With both hdds bootable If I switch the ribbon it will boot to the other hdd.

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Sorry to jump in your thread DVOM, but reading this has made me think of a question.

Currently have HDD on controller 1 of Ultra ATA 100, Cd-rom on IDE1 Cont 1 and Cdrw on IDE2 Cont 2 all set as master.

If I was to install new HDD, where would be the best place to put it for best ghost processing times

Train, I've got Ghost 2002, I just haven't used it because typing the licence # each time is a hassle. Apparently I've either been lucky or just keeping within the limits of the earlier version. Time to change my habits.

If I can 't get it to boot with a ghost 2k2 disk, I guess I'll try putting ghostPE.exe in the root of C: and run it from there.

Nix, jump all you want. I've always ghosted from IDE 2 to IDE 1, both drives set as master. This time certain constraints have made me try other ways that just aren't working.

Edit: Well, putting ghostpe on C: sure doesn't work. Came up with some interesting errors I'd never seen before.

My main problem now is I can't get the machine to recognize a single HDD. Also when I've only got the one HDD installed, it doesn't recognize the HDD or DVD-ROM either. (different IDE ribbons) The BIOS show "Unknown device" for each.

When I install two HDD's, the machine sees and recognizes both HDD's and the DVD-ROM and reports the correct volume and brand. BIOS shows "Hard drive" (twice) and "CD-ROM". Doesn't matter if the second HDD is on IDE 1 or IDE 2.

When I try to boot to the drive/drives, sometimes I get the error message "No OS found". It used to boot to the two HDD's untill tonite when I set out to get it to boot to just one drive.

So the worst case scenario is I can't even reinstall the OS because the machine can't see the HDD when only one HDD is installed.

I sure would like to save this system. I'm up for any suggestions anyone might have.

Solved the one HDD not being recognized. WD's graphic on the drive indicated the center jumper position for master. In reality, that position is for "master with slave present". The correct jumper setting is no jumper at all.

Yes, we have to watch those jumpers. THE darn number, I know. MUMBLE!
But the 5. you have may have a size limit. I could not find a manual for it, so just guessing there.


Nix
Any time you can cross from primary to secondary when cloning it is much faster whether it be IDE or ATA66/100/133.

My breakdown is
cdrom master primary IDE
cdrw master secondary IDE

on the ATA100
C:\ Is master on the Primary ATA
D:\ is master on the secondary ATA

A logical is Slave on the secondary and has the a image on it

I clone C: to D: about weekly and make a image about monthly.

For me to clone or make a image to another partition on the same hdd or ribbon takes over 4 times longer to do.

I finally just did a clean install of w2k on this machine. Put his old defunct OS on D partition so all his data/files are available.

Some lessons learned:

Check the Ghost web site for compatability issues with Ghost versions and the job you're trying to do.

If the machine owner insists on hooking the drives up "cable select", you should insist on overtime pay...

After you've ghosted one primary active partition to another drive, DO NOT boot the machine to windows with both drives hooked up

And the last one I have to learn over and over, the manufacterers instructions are wrong nearly as often as they're right.