Changes to "Windows Genuine Advantage" - Page 2 - Virtual Dr Forums-Computer Tech Support

**SpywareDr** · #16 June 5th, 2006, 10:28 AM

50 Million lines of code for $50 bucks?

What are you going to do after you've starved all the programmers to death?

Windows 95 had 15 million lines of code.
Windows 98 has 18 million lines of code.
Windows XP has 35 million lines of code.
Windows Vista has 50 million lines of code, (40 percent larger than Windows XP).

**SuperSparks** · #17 June 5th, 2006, 11:43 AM

I've always felt that Windows is fairly reasonably priced, as is most MS software with the exception of Office. Now Adobe software, that is overpriced. There is no excuse for what they charge for Photoshop or Acrobat.

**usil** · #18 June 5th, 2006, 02:26 PM

I can live with the price of Windows (lets wait and see though how much Vista will cost), but Office kills me. There is no justification for spending so much money on Office. It seems weird to me that Office is more expensive than the OS in the first place.

When is MS really gonna get some guts and start disabling parts of the OS of illegal copies? IMO, they should release a patch that turns certain things off. Like the printing, or the HTTP protocol. That would be fun. MS would get slapped with a whole bunch of lawsuits, but it would definitely be fun (not to mention that I would make a heck of a lot of money out of that).

ProfessorU · #19 June 5th, 2006, 04:42 PM

For those of you who buy lots of software, get a student discount. I have saved thousands on software with my student ID. In many cases it would be cheaper to pay $200 for a 1-credit course at a community college than to pay full price for the software, particularly Adobe.
Don't kid yourself about piracy going down if Widows was cheaper. There are script kiddies that wouldn't pay $5 for Windows but have illegal VLK copies of every OS MS has ever released. The bulk of piracy is people who could afford the software.

I think what should change is the way the 'used' market is handled. The majority of Windows XP installations will just 'disappear' in the next 10 years. They will be replaced. Users might upgrade, which would prevent them from selling XP, but if they don't upgrade, what happens to that particular license? It goes nowhere. Consumers should set up a legal way for those licenses to be resold. The day Vista is released, there will be more copies of XP being released than obtained. In a truly free market that should push the price down FAST. But MS will still sell copies of WinXP for years, at full price.

104456 · #20 June 5th, 2006, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpywareDr

Windows 95 had 15 million lines of code.
Windows 98 has 18 million lines of code.
Windows XP has 35 million lines of code.
Windows Vista has 50 million lines of code, (40 percent larger than Windows XP).

One has to wonder though how much of this code is for copy protection and antipiracy rather than for its initial conception as an operating system.

**usil** · #21 June 6th, 2006, 02:19 AM

Has there been any word yet as to how Vista will be protected? I hope that MS come up with something a bit more complicated than they did with XP.

**Nix** · #22 June 6th, 2006, 02:50 AM

A new release game might cost you $100 bucks and in 6 months time it's dwon to $50 and another 6 months it's in the bargain bin for $20.

3 years down the track and it's $10 or less.

So why don't all these other softwares drop in price ?

Also if you can buy it cheap as student, that makes you wonder about the real cost of making the product if they can cut it so much for students ?

Student prices - that was the only erason I had kids.........just kidding, but one is in school now so......

**usil** · #23 June 6th, 2006, 03:09 AM

Nix, I agree with that. Especially the part about student prices. In fact, I myself bought Office 2003 Pro for $20. My brothers company (the biggest ISP in Israel) offered Office to its workers for that price as part of a deal they have with MS. Lots of my customers who are teachers get Windows XP + Office 2003 Pro for about $25 through the education ministry, again as part of a deal with MS. Really makes you wonder.

Now that Vista is slated to be released in early 2007, why not bring down the price for XP which will be old software? As it stands now, Windows 98 is more expensive to buy than XP!? One could argue that Windows 98 has kept its market value because it offers something that XP doesn't, DOS. Many companies stick with 98 because DOS offers them the ability to work with old legacy programs. But XP won't have that advantage over Vista.

LindaHewitt · #24 June 6th, 2006, 03:32 AM

When you purchase a new Windows PC computer with the latest operating system, this is an OEM OS, which is installed by the manufacturer or assembler of your new computer. The OEM EULA states that an OEM copy of the OS can not be resold, so when you get ready to give away or sell the computer that you have just purchased, you are required to wipe the hard drive of the OS.

If you sell a computer with its OEM version of the OS, then you are participating in piracy, whether you realize it or not.

I agree about the Adobe products being overpriced. But the prices on Microsoft products are reasonable in my opinion.

There are some people, who are always looking for a free lunch and if that is there objective, then it really doesn't matter how cheap the price is, they do not want to pay the price. Having encountered this personality type on a number of occasions, I developed the following saying. "There are some people, that if you told them that this piece of land was free, they would want 20% off."

I have also encountered the free lunch type, which orders software via spammers for $10 or $20 and then complains loudly and longly that they haven't received their software. When I have told them that they have been scammed and that they are never going to get any software, they kept asking me over and over, "But what do I need to do to get my software... ?"

As they say, there are idiots and then there are stupid idiots.

I too have bought software by registering for a college course. However, some of the software that you purchase with an educational discount may be cripple ware, if you decide to use it for commercial purposes. Neither Microsoft nor Adobe do this but other vendors do, so it is wise to find out before you complete your purchase. Typically, the instructors, who teach how to use specific software will know, if there are any issues pertaining to your using the software as a student and then later on a for profit basis for business purposes.

Cheers,

Linda

**Tuttle** · #25 June 7th, 2006, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LindaHewitt

When you purchase a new Windows PC computer with the latest operating system, this is an OEM OS, which is installed by the manufacturer or assembler of your new computer. The OEM EULA states that an OEM copy of the OS can not be resold, so when you get ready to give away or sell the computer that you have just purchased, you are required to wipe the hard drive of the OS.

If you sell a computer with its OEM version of the OS, then you are participating in piracy, whether you realize it or not.

That's not quite what it says. The relevant bit of the OEM EULA is this:

Quote:

1.2 Software as a Component of the Computer - Transfer. THIS LICENSE MAY NOT BE SHARED, TRANSFERRED TO OR USED CONCURRENTLY ON DIFFERENT COMPUTERS. The Software is licensed with the Computer as a single integrated product and may only be used with the Computer. If the Software is not accompanied by a Computer, you may not use the Software. You may permanently transfer all of your rights under this EULA only as part of a permanent sale or transfer of the Computer, provided you retain no copies, if you transfer the Software (including all component parts, the media, any upgrades, this EULA and the COA), and the recipient agrees to the terms of this EULA. If the Software is an upgrade, any transfer must also include all prior versions of the Software.

As long as it's staying with the computer and you give away all the supporting materials, it's transferrable to the new owner.

LindaHewitt · #26 June 7th, 2006, 11:21 AM

Tuttle,

Have the requirements in the OEM EULA changed in the last couple of years?

I have been involved in a community service computer refurbishing project, which uses W98 SE. When companies or individuals donate computers, according to Microsoft, the OEM operating systems could not be used even if they were W98 SE. As a result, Microsoft set up the MAR program (Microsoft Authorized Refurbisher) where they will sell authenic copies of either W98 or W2K for $5 each.

Did the OEM EULA change as a result of either the US anti-trust lawsuit or the EU anti-trust lawsuit?

Edit:

I went to the system builder website below and found the following information.

Quote:

Questions and answers specific to system builders

https://oem.microsoft.com/worldwide/514341.asp

Can my customers transfer or sell their OEM software licenses?
A. After an OEM software license has been installed on a PC, the license may not be installed on or transferred to another PC. However, the entire PC may be transferred to another end user along with the software license rights. When transferring the PC to the new end user the software media, manuals (if applicable) and certificate of authenticity label must be included. It is also advisable to include the original purchase invoice or receipt. The original end user cannot keep any copies of the software.

My interpretation of these rules is that if you can NOT provide the software media (including original media if the this OS is an upgrade), certificate of authenticity, then you cannot transfer this OEM OS.

I would also think that it would be very prudent to have a signed agreement between the original owner and the new owner, which is signed by both. This way if there is ever any question, then you as the original owner can prove that you transferred everything. Likewise as the new owner, you can prove that you are the new owner.

Pertaining to computer refurbishing projects, which require a new MAR OS, the probable reason is that when the computer is donated, the donor cannot provide the original software media, certificate of authenticity, let alone purchase invoice or receipt.

Well, I certainly learned a bit more about the Microsoft rules.

Cheers,

Linda

**Tuttle** · #27 June 9th, 2006, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LindaHewitt

Have the requirements in the OEM EULA changed in the last couple of years?

Not in any way that's meaningful to end users. The only recent change I can think of affects what system builders are allowed to supply OEM licenses with -- there was an attempt to close the loophole that let you legally sell an OEM copy of windows together with something like an IDE cable.

ProfessorU · #28 June 9th, 2006, 01:53 PM

Isn't the COA often the hologram sticker included on the case of most OEM machines? Or is that just part of the COA?

Also, couldn't it be argued that the transfer of ownership is included in fair-use? Or at least that MS wouldn't get involved in a lawsuit against schools or other nonprofits where MS had already recieved money for the software once?

**Nix** · #29 June 9th, 2006, 11:26 PM

Yeah sounds like b*ll*x to me.

It would be a bit like saying you can't sell your car without pulling the engine out first.

**Tuttle** · #30 June 10th, 2006, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfessorU

Isn't the COA often the hologram sticker included on the case of most OEM machines? Or is that just part of the COA?

These days it is. Once upon a time it was the front cover of the manual, or a separate bit of paper.

Quote:

Also, couldn't it be argued that the transfer of ownership is included in fair-use? Or at least that MS wouldn't get involved in a lawsuit against schools or other nonprofits where MS had already recieved money for the software once?

Most nonprofits I know can't afford that sort of risk.