Much difference between a Pentium 4-1.8 and a 2.0?

[banditcosmo]

I'm thinking of buying a new Dell PC. They have some great deals right now on the small business pc's.
Anyway, the P4 2.0 cost $290.00 more than the 1.8. Would there be much of a noticeable speed difference between the two?

Also, does anyone know what speeds the P4 will being going up to? I want to get a pc that I can upgrade the cpu a year or two from now.

[BadBrain1]

I don't think there would be a significant performance difference between the 1.8 and the 2.0, certainly not a $300 difference.

The P4 should be going up to about 3.5ghz. If your'e thinking upgrade then make sure the P4 you get is using socket 478 (which will scale high) and not socket 423 (which will max out at 2.0ghz). And make sure its using (admittedly expensive) RDRAM and not P4 performance crippling SDRAM.

Now that I've answered your questions, I'll offer my opinion. If you are thinking of upgrading down the road do not buy a Dell (or compaq, IBM, gateway, or any other OEM).

Dell and others tend to use proprietary Motherboards and other components that can't always be upgraded easily. Also, instead of giving you an Operating System (which you will pay for) they will give you a 'recovery disk' which limits what you can do.

My advice instead would be to buy components and build the computer yourself. Or, if you find that too daunting, find a reputable local dealer and have a computer custom built with the components you want.

If your set on a P4 setup make sure it has:

a socket 478 mobo and RDRAM.

However, I would recommend an AMD setup instead. AMD is the current performance champ and, believe it or not, they are less expensive than the slower P4. I would get:

An Shuttle AK-31 kt266a (or ASUS A7V266-E)Mobo, AthlonXP 1800+ (1.53ghz) CPU, 512 megs of PC-2100 ddr ram, etc.

hope this helps.

[banditcosmo]

Thanks for your reply BadBrain1.
The reason I was looking at Dell is I can get a Dell 8200 series with a P4 1.8 (socket 478), 256MB RDRAM, 40GB Ultra100 hard drive, Geforce2 MX video card, Soundblaster Live Digital card, NIC card,Office XP small buisness and Windows XP for $859.00 free shipping. Also, Every Dell we have here at work and my home pc have been great.
Do you think I could build an equal system or better for the same price? If so where would be the best place to buy all the components.
Thanks, Tony

[slipe]

I think you could bring in the hardware for that or a little lower, but throw in Office XP, Win XP and sales tax/shipping and I don’t think you can equal that price. Is it a special deal through your employer?

I ran as close as I could to the components and got about $800 for Monarch to build just the hardware. You are over $900 with just Windows MX and no Office. Try putting one together yourself: http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv

[spragers]

P4 1.8 (socket 478) $206
256MB RDRAM $80
40GB Ultra100 hard drive $80
Geforce2 MX video card $55
Soundblaster Live Digital card $30
NIC card $10
Office XP small buisness $150
Windows XP (Pro) $107

You're already over $700 without a motherboard, case, monitor, or peripherals (mouse / keyboard). Those prices are the latest lowest from pricewatch.com

Nothing against Dell's directly, but any computer you buy from a company like them - you're basically stuck with that with little or no option for future upgrades / changes. I made the mistake myself buying a Compaq - though I have managed to upgrade the RAM, go from Win98 to ME, add a NIC, and even add a new power supply (sort of). This time around though I'm building it from scratch. It will cost a bit more than if I bought a put-together system from one of the big corporations, but I know exactly what's going into it - quality parts that I want, not whatever they choose to use or let you pick from - and I'll have plenty of room for changes and upgrades.

Take a look at greengoose1's Delta thread, in case you're just nervous about building from scratch

[banditcosmo]

That price is through Dell's online pricing for small business's. I'm not a small business but I can get it shipped to my work. The one thing I left off is $38.00 in taxes that you have to pay going through the small business's. Also, no monitor included but I don't need one. The main thing I want is to be able to upgrade the cpu in a year or two past a 2.0Ghz
I'll check out that web site.
Thanks, Tony

[Train]

The 1.8 and the 2.0 use different motherboards. Different sockets for the cpu is the problem as the 2.0 has more pins.

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[BadBrain1]

Yeah, if upgrading in a year or two is your main objective then you're better off with a custom PC then a Dell (though the Dell does sound like a good deal).

Personally, I'm a fan of doing my research, and pricing components, online and then buying locally from a good mom and pop outfit (as long as the mom and pop has a good reputation and has been around for a while). Again, you can take the plunge and build the system yourself (with help here) or have them put it together for you as per your specifications.

Also, remember that the Dell WindowsXP is not a real Windows OS but just a recovery disk for the pre-intalled setup they give you. It can be a pain to get rid of all the fluffy stuff they install on your system.

And ultimately, custom built systems are more fun. You know to-the-letter exactly what's in your machine starting with the most important component -- the motherboard. And then you start tweaking this and that -- like setting agressive RAM timings or overclocking -- and you can squeeze the maximum performance out of your system for free.

I'll just mention one final thing: It may sound strange, but a 1.53ghz AMD AthlonXP eats (is faster/outperforms) a 2.0ghz P4 for about half the price. And Athlon's Socket A also has a good upgrade path -- it should reach about 2.5-2.7ghz (which will be the speed equivalent of a 3ghz+ P4). In addition to that, AMD compatible DDR ram performs equally to P4 compatible RDRAM for about one quarter the price. So you could put together a killer AMD box -- with top notch components and a good upgrade path -- for less then the Dell box.

take care,

Dan.

[DrMDJ]

If for some reason you want to buy a pre-made system as opposed to build, then fine. Some people just don't feel comfortable or don't want to bother building their own. Dell is a good brand, and the amount you're paying is reasonable. When you start adding everything in/up you likely will not do better (or much) building yourself. And then there's always the fact that "if you build it, you support it". That too can be a problem/issue for some.

A couple notes:

The P4 1.8 and 2.0 are available in both the socket 473 and the socket 478 types. As said, for upgradeability the socket 478 is preferred (so it's good the one you're buying has that). Currently, there is no performance difference between the socket 473 and 478 CPUs. When the new Northwood core (socket 478) P4s are out there will be performance enhancements.

As BadBrain1 said, lower mhz/ghz AMD processors can achieve the same or better performance as higher P4's models. So today with the typical slate of applications available and that people run a lower, cheper Athlon is generally a better value. But if you want to go the P4 route (I might at least look at AMD alternatives).. You will likely feel/see liitle difference going with either the 1.8ghz or 2.0ghz P4, so ya might as well save the 200 bucks.

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[banditcosmo]

Thanks for everyone's help. I think I'll pass on the Dell and built AMD system myself.
What do you guys think of barebone systems?
I was looking at the following from Mcglen.com

ABIT KG7 AMD SOCKET A DDR ATX MOTHERBOARD WITH 266FSB
AMD ATHLON XP PROCESSOR 1700+ WITH QUANTISPEED ARCHITECTURE (1467MHz) OEM
512MB DDR 266MHz 64x64 PC2100 Non-Parity Unbuf DIMM 2.5V DDRAM
ThermalTake A1139 VOLCANO 6 CU BALL BEARING COPPER AMD SKT 462 & INTEL SKT 370 HEAT SINK & FAN
TEAC 1.44MB Floppy Drive OEM PACKAGE
IN-WIN S506 300Watt Power Supply Mid tower ATX case 3 X 5.25 Bays 2 x 3.5 2 x 3.5+ x2 case fan!!
TOSHIBA 16X DVD ROM / 48X CD-ROM Random access: 115ms DVD-ROM SD-M1502-TA
2 year component warranty
$551.00 for all the above free shipping.
All I would need is a video and sound card. ( I already have a monitor, hard drive, and Win2K I can use)
Or should I buy everything serperate? Others have a cpu/motherboard combo's should I consider those?
Tony

[spragers]

In a perfect world you could find one site that has every part you want, at the lowest prices, with the cheapest shipping rates. The Wal-mart of the computer world But things don't work that way - so you either buy everything from one place where one part is a steal and the next a rip-off, or where everything is in the middle. I've heard good things about newegg.com (great service, decent prices) but I've used Pricewatch and eBay to find better deals on most components. Sadly, the only parts I've ordered from newegg have been a couple of hard drive coolers

[slipe]

The only comments I would make on your choices:

Make sure the designation on the Thermaltake is 6 CU and not 6 CU+. The plus version has better cooling but it is noisy and not necessary unless you plan to overclock. The place I got my Thermaltake from was nice enough to put a little dab of silver paste on it for me – hope you are as lucky. Don’t understand the Intel heat sink and fan in addition. The 6CU comes with a good heatsink. You can put only one heatsink and fan on a CPU.

Check on which Lite-On DVD they are offering. If it is the LTD 122, it will extract digital audio fast enough to record on the fly at 16X if you get a burner. The LTD 163 has the fastest DAE you can get and will keep up at 24X. The Kenwoods are faster but unreliable in reading CDR. Lite-On is the DVD drive of choice if you think you might eventually want to install a burner. http://www.cdspeed2000.com/go.php3?link=daeresults.php3

[BadBrain1]

Tony, kudos on a very nice looking system. And congrats on deciding to build it yourself (and going AMD).

I have a couple of suggestions though:

The motherboard you've chosen is very nice, ABIT boards are highly tweakable and the AMD 760 chipset is very solid. You'll be a happy camper with that board

But Motherboards using the VIA kt266a chipset smoke all the competition (including AMD chipset boards) in ALL the benchmarks. That AthlonXP with a kt266a Mobo....oh mama!!!

Here's a nice comparison of the various Athlon chipset solutions:
http://www.anandtech.com/chipsets/showdoc.html?i=1528

And the AMD chipset boards are expensive because supply is low and demand is high. At McGlen.com (as part of the AMD Athlon XP Processor DDR Bundle) you can get the EPoX 8KHA+ (which uses kt266a chipset) for about $50 cheaper and it will be about 20% faster. Anandtech rates the board very highly here:
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.html?i=1547&p=1

I think the bundle looks nice but I've never heard of mcglen.com. If they're trustworthy it looks like a good deal and good components. Research any online retailer's reputation before giving them your money.

Video card and sound card recommendations I can make after you tell us if you're a gamer.

As Slipe suggested, think about a CD-RW. Its really a great way to back up documents and important data -- and helps you sleep at night knowing if you get a virus or your hard drive dies you've got all your important stuff backed up on a couple of Cds.

The case also sounds nice. Case fans are very important for good airflow and keeping a cool box. But you might consider one with a higher rated power supply -- since you've talked about upgrading a year or two down the road. You might be better off with a 400+ watt power supply. IMO, Enermax Power supplies are the best. 300watts should be enough for now though (and may be good enough for your upgrade) but before you buy the PS, confirm that its got a 160 watt or greater rating on the 3v+5v output specifications.

good work.

Later,

Dan.

[This message has been edited by BadBrain1 (edited 10-30-2001).]

[banditcosmo]

Hey Badbrain1,
Where can I buy one of those boards with the KT266A chipset? According to what I see AnandTech likes the EPoX board the best. Pricegrabber does not list it nor does Cnet.

What do you think of the ASUS A7M266 mobo ?
A local shop has one for sale.

[BadBrain1]

Hi Bandit.

Alot of people like newegg.com. Here's the kt266a EPOX EP-8KHA+ board:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...nufactory=1318

$107 is a very good price for the board.

What do I think of the ASUS A7M266? I would have recommended it a few months ago but today its a bit of a dinosaur. Again, it uses the AMD 761 chipset so its going to be good and solid -- and ASUS make nice (though a bit overpriced) motherboards. But it's from the transition from sdram to ddr ram -- so it has 2 ddr dimm slots and 3 sdram dimm slots. But you can't use both. You gotta pick one. Since you'd be using DDR ram, effectively what that means is you have only two ram slots. That would suck for upgrading down the road.

And ten-to-one the A7M266 is about $40 more expensive than the EPOX, mainly because Mobos using the AMD chipset are expensive.