Ethernet splitter?

[Toolman55]

Hello,

My wife has a conundrum at work. The internet comes into the office (broadband w/cable modem). A Cat 5 ethernet cable runs upstairs to the computer lab (elementary school) and plugs into a 10 port router. They then have their 10 computers hardwired into this router.

The problem----They have other computers thru-out the building with no internet hookups. They would like to give one or two of these some internet.
How???-- they went and bought a Linksys wireless 802.11g router and a USB wireless receiver to plug into the computer of choice.

I was thinking that to use the wireless router they would have to buy an ethernet splitter to place in line with the cable feeding the existing router, and plug the wireless router into the open port on the splitter. They would then install the USB wireless receiver software on the computer of choice and configure the internet connection. Does this sound logical or am I being dopey??

I would appreciate any help that you can provide on this situation.

Thanks,
Toolman55

[Tuttle]

Okay, what you need to do is neuter that wireless router so it's only acting as an access point. One router in the network is enough.

To do that, you need to go into the setup of the wireless router (before it goes on the main network) and disable the DHCP server so it doesn't give out addresses and conflict with the one that's already in place.

Then you need to connect one of the LAN ports on the wireless router to one of the LAN ports on the existing router. If you're out of ports, get a switch and connect it to give you more ports. The WAN port on the wireless router must be left empty.

[puterfixer]

To put it in simple terms and with somewhat flexibility in bending the actual details, digital communication like Ethernet cannot be "splitted" like cable TV or audio cables because communication is synchronized between the two ends of a cable. It is the router's purpose to "distribute" or "share" the Internet connection to more computers. The router, however, usually has two ports: one for the Internet connection, where the cable or DSL modem connects to, and another to the local network connection, where the local network switch connects to.

To interconnect all computers in a local network, a switch is needed. Some routers also have a small switch built into the same physical box, with 4 or maybe 8 ports, to help a small network get started without the need of buying a separate switch. But if you want to extend the local network to more computers, then you will need to buy a separate switch and connect it to the one built into the router's box in order to have more available ports.

From what you have described, this is your case as well. The router that allows the 10 PCs to share the same Internet connection through the cable modem has a 10-port built-in switch, but all its ports are being used by computers. You'd need one extra port where to plug in the wireless router (configured in Access Point mode only). So, you'll need to buy a network switch (maybe a 4 or 8-port, they're cheap) and a short cable, unplug one of the computers from the router, connect the cable to that port and to one of the ports in the new switch, then connect the PC and wireless access point to the new switch.

Usually, a cable connects a PC with a switch. This is called a "straight" or "patch" cable; the pins from one end are in exactly the same order as the pins on the other end. You can buy this kind of cables of your desired length from any computer store or even Wally World. However, if you connect two similar devices directly (two PCs or two switches), a "cross-over" cable needs to be used. The cross-over cable has a few wires reversed and it's not that common to buy. Manufacturers of switches thought about this and designed their switches with a port labeled "Uplink" or perhaps with a switch button next to it, to enable internal cross-over. This way, you don't need to find a cross-over cable, because the switch makes the cross-over of the wires internally for that port; instead, you can buy a short (3 foot) "straight" cable from anywhere, and connect the uplink port of one switch to one of the normal ports of the other switch. Newer switches marked "MDI/MDI-X" are even smarter; they can detect if there's a computer or a switch connected to each of its ports, if it's a regular or cross-over cable, and they adjust themselves automatically to make everything work. Look for a model that supports the "MDI/MDI-X" feature and you won't need to worry about "straight" or "cross-over" cables.

Since you do need to get a switch, perhaps you could take this opportunity to make your network arrangement better for everyone. You could move the router downstairs, next to the cable modem, and plug in your office's computers (and the wireless access point) into the switch built into the router. Save one port for the cable going upstairs to the lab room. In the lab, install a 16-port switch where you plug in all computers and the cable coming from the router. Similarily you can link one switch to another, to extend your local network to other offices or labs. This way, all computers will be able to use the local network for sharing printers and files (password-protect shares!!!) and benefit from the Internet connection through the router.

[Toolman55]

Tuttle & Puterfixer:

Thank you both for your info. I greatly appreciate it. But I need a little more detail, if possible.
Tuttle: i understand the physical layout of the wiring/hardware. But I'm confused on how to accomplish entering the router setup and disabeling the DHCP. Could you supply a little more how-to on this?

puterfixer: I am not the brightest bulb on the tree but I think I know what you're describing. I'm sorry if I'm just re-stating what you said, but I just want to be sure. Please let me know if I have this correct: Buy a switch(they are called "Switches"?) and unplug one of the 10 puters in the lab, insert a new short cable into the open port. Plug the new cable into the switch. Plug the existing cable (from the original, disconnected, computer into a port on the switch. Take a cable and plug into the switch and into the new wireless router. Would this be accurate? 2 additional questions:
1)suggestions on accomplishing Access Pont mode only?
2) I was told the original 10 port router is actually more than 10 ports. So I would not have to place the new switch and router in line with an existing PC? Just use the open port?

Thank you both for your help and your patience.

<Edit>I had not researched "switches" when I wrote this. I will look into it now

Toolman

[puterfixer]

You've got it right, Toolman. They are called "network switches" because they perform "packet switching" as opposed to "network hubs" who are only "packet repeaters". Switches are more efficient than hubs. Sometimes they are called "switching hubs".

Anyway; if the router's built-in switch has more available switches, you can just take a cable and plug it in the available port, then plug the other end in the wireless router's port (the one marked "WAN" if it has more than one). If the built-in switch has no available ports, the extra switch connects exactly as you've described.

To configure the wireless router, do this way:
1) Power up the wireless router, whether it is connected to the switch or not.
2) Connect the wireless USB adapter to one of the computers and get the drivers installed for it, if they aren't installed already. That PC and the wireless router will make a wireless network on their own now. The router function in the wireless router separates the wireless network from the wired one, if it is connected; turning off the routing feature will make the wireless router become a wireless access point, connecting without restrictions the wired and the wireless computers as a whole network and making administration and use a lot easier.
3) From the PC with wireless adapter, you can now access the wireless router's configuration page, usually by typing in the web browser the address "http://192.168.1.1" or "http://192.168.0.1". The page is password-protected, the default username and password are written in the wireless router's manual (you can try leaving the username field blank, and writing "admin" as password).
4) Somewhere in its advanced settings, there's an option about working only in Access Point mode; select that and save the settings. The manual should explain this step by step, skip over the quick set-up guide and go to the advanced settings chapter. It will probably ask you to specify an IP address for it, belonging to the group of IPs in the wired network.
5) Restart the computer with wireless connection and, if the wireless access point (no longer a router) is connected to the switch with a cable, the PC will be able to access the Internet.

How to find out what IPs are being used on the local network? Go to one of the computers in the lab. If it's running Windows XP or Windows 2000, go to Start menu > Run, type the command "cmd" without quotes and click OK button. A command prompt window will open, enter the command "ipconfig" without quotes and hit the Enter key. There are three pieces of information here: the IP Address of that computer, the network mask, and the gateway. Type "exit" and Enter to close the command prompt window. Under Windows 95/98/Millennium, go to Start > Run and enter "winipcfg" without quotes, then click OK button; the same data will appear in a window. Select your network card from the combobox at the top, if needed. When done reading the numbers, click OK to close the window.

A common example is 192.168.1.something as IP address, 255.255.255.0 as network mask and 192.168.1.1 as gateway -- it might even be your situation. The numbers in the IP address corresponding to 255's in the netmask (network mask) will be the same for all computers in that local network. So, in the example I mentioned, you can use any IP address in the form 192.168.1.something, where something is a number between 1 and 254; 0 and 255 are reserved and shouldn't be used. The 10 PCs are using 10 IPs from that group, probably random ones from .100 to .150, and the router (the one connected to the cable modem) has another one, known by the computers as "gateway".

You need to pick an available IP address for the wireless router, when you set it in access point mode. All you need to do is avoid the IP of the router and the IPs of the existing computers. Use the first three numbers determined before as belonging to all IPs in the local network (192.168.1.) and put any number as the fourth, as long as it doesn't make an existing IP. 192.168.1.2 or perhaps 192.168.1.10 might work just as well as 192.168.1.254 or 192.168.1.253. Write this IP address on a post-it and stick it underneath the wireless access point. This is the IP address you will enter in the browser's location bar if you ever want to access the wireless access point's configuration page, instead of the default 192.168.1.1 described in the manual and in step 3 above.

Sorry for the long posts, I'm trying to explain as detailed as possible so you understand what you need to do and why, but without overwhelming you with techtalk.

[Toolman55]

Puterfixer:

Thanks for all the great info. Aftr my last reply to you, I went to Linlsys.com To take a look around. I found exactly what you described. But I also found a "wireless ccess Point". It looks similar to the router, but from what I've read, it gets installed somewhere between the cable modem and the existing rounter. Unplug the router, plug that into the Access point, and plug a cable from the access point to the existing router. Configure it at one of the existing puters on the net, then use your wireless nic/usb receiver on the computer you choose.

Would this work also? Your way allows for the expansion of the lab by utilizing the addition empty ports on the switch.

I very much appreciate you taking the time to "dumb down" your explanation. Believe me! I need it. It also leaves little room for misinterpretation.

Again, many thanks. I don't know if you've read the post "VirtualDr more than a little sick", but folks like you and Tuttle are what makes coming here a joy.

Toolmam

[puterfixer]

Sorry, I don't think I've seen such an access point that plugs between the cable/DSL modem and the router, unless it is a router itself. It doesn't make sense for an access point to get between the modem and the network's wired router, since the equipment connected to a modem can be either a computer (using the Internet connection by itself) or a router (sharing the connection to other computers).

I've been trying to offer the simplest way to achieve the desired result with the equipment that you already have: the wired router with built-in switch in the computer lab, the wireless router (set up as access point) and a wireless adapter. You don't need the router part in the Linksys and it's easier to use the network with it disabled, that's the reason for all the hassle with turning it into access point mode. Tuttle is right, only one router on a network is enough, and it needs to be at the point where the local network connects to the Internet through the modem. Sure, you can return the wireless router and get a simple wireless access point instead, but it will also connect to the switch built into the router upstairs, and not between the modem and the router. That's how it normally works. As it is a wireless access point, it doesn't matter that much if it's in your office or upstairs, in terms of signal strength. If I were you, I'd consider the other suggestion to allow the wired network to grow: moving the router downstairs and hooking up PCs to it, then adding a separate switch upstairs for the lab.

I'm afraid I've missed the thread you mentioned -- I haven't been too faithful to this forum, being busy posting on others where I had administrative duties as well. It's been a few months since I've quit visiting the others, so now I'm ocasionally here helping and having fun. I'm glad you appreciate my babbling, though Not many have that patience.

[NoBoB]

An Access Point does not go between the modem and existing router. It's plugged in to one of the existing ports on your existing wired router. A Wireless Router, like Tuttle mentioned above, is basically a wired router and an Access Point in one housing, and if you disable the router function (or neuter it, to use his term), you end up with an Access Point

Access Points are intended to add wireless access to an existing wired network, but sometimes it can be cheaper to buy a wireless router, configure it as an access point, and use it that way. I'm not familiar with the particular unit you have, but many late-model wireless routers can be converted to an access point just by checking a box on a configuration screen.

One more thing. Make sure your 10-port device is actually a router. Sometimes people unfamiliar with the terminology will interchange router and switch, and then they'll say "and over here is our 10-port router", and you end up misled. It might be a router, but 10-port is an unusual size. Then again, it's not exactly a common switch size either It probably is, but if it's not a router, you may be drawing multiple IP addresses from the ISP, and adding computers may incur extra cost if they'll even allow it.

[Toolman55]

Thank you all for your help and suggestions. I went back and re-read the directions on the installation of an jAccess Point device and they were a little ambiguous. I'm definately go with the switch method and allow for more future expansion.

I'm soory it took so long to get back to you all.

Thanks again for all of your help. It should be a much smoother transition for them (and me!).

Thanks,
Toolman55