Partition Magic HELP!

[John Dos]

I understand I can Only have FOUR Primary Partitions on ONE disk.

I'm trying to install 4 operating systems on one machine.
I have 3 OS right now w98,NT workstation,w98.

the problem is that my "unallocated space" is set to Primary!
Since I can only have 4 Primary partitions, I can't install my newist OS NT 4 SERVER.
Anyone got advice. http://discussions.virtualdr.com/smile.gif

Partition magic 6

everytime I try to make a Primary partition, it will only let me make a Logical Drive!

So if I can't install NT 4 server on a primary Part, can I install it on a logical drive?

[DrMDJ]

You are correct, there can only be 4 primary partitions per disk.

I'm not sure I understand the problem here. You say you have 3 OSes installed now in 3 primary partitions. If you have unallocated space you simply create the/a forth primary partition in it (though it sounds like you are saying the space isn't really unallocated, but rather already defined a a primary partition).

To have a bootable and isolated NT system you need the primary partition. You can't do it in a logical partition.

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[LotusAstra]

As u know there a 4 primary partition limit...

The Extended partition (the one that contains the logicals) is also concidered as a primary in this partition count.

So u can have:

4 Primarys or
3 Primarys + 1 Extended

Could it be that u have an Extended partition (containing logicals or not) at the end of your disk?

If so and you want that 4th active primary then u'll have to nuke any extended partition u may have...

Am i close, if not then... http://discussions.virtualdr.com/smile.gif

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Let us know if/how it worked out!
BackUp Windows BEFORE you break it, then you can experiment & learn all you like!
Cel-300a, 512RAM, Voodoo 3-2000, SB-128, XPpro, 2 HDD's, CD-RW & ROM

[DVOM]

Can you merge the unallocated space to get rid of it? Do you have GoBack installed? It has to be uninstalled to configure partitions.

[John Dos]

Ok MOre details, this is my system

DISk 1
c:Ntwin
D:w98
****
***Extended partition
E backup
f storage
g removeable
h removeable2
I:windows98test
**********unallocated space 8gigs!
CD-rom
disk2 2gig part
disk3 2 gig part
disk4 2 gig part

ALL PARTITIONS ARE FAT 16

I still can't make a primary on disk one, may be impossible, but can I install NT SERVER on Disk 2 or 3?

[John Dos]

btw drive I: is a primary partition. http://discussions.virtualdr.com/smile.gif

[mpc]

Originally posted by John Dos:
So if I can't install NT 4 server on a primary Part, can I install it on a logical drive?


Yes. Since you already have a primary partition, you can install NT on a logical drive. Let PartitionMagic create a logical drive and install NT there. No need to do anything else.


[This message has been edited by mpc (edited 05-22-2002).]

[DrMDJ]

You can install the bulk of NT (its files) on a logical drive, but a certain number of files (to initiate the boot process) need to be on a bootable partition. Since only Primary partitions can be bootable this would mean the boot files for NT server would need to be on one of your existing primary partitions. Since you already have OSes on these you would not have isolation of the different OSes if you use one for the NT boot files.

Since you already have 3 primary and the extended partition on drive one you can't put another primary partition there. However, you can create a primary partiton on one of your other disks and install NT server there.

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[mpc]

DrMDJ, that's not how a multi-boot setup works. The boot files(and master boot record) always reside on the first partition of the first disk.

If you were, for example, to have a dual boot setup, with say... Windows 98 and Windows XP, with Win98 on C: and XP on D (primary or logical...it doesn't matter), the Windows XP boot files (NTDetect.com NTLDR, and Boot.ini) will reside on the root of the Windows 98 C: drive. It doesn't matter that there is already another OS (Win98 in this case) there. This is true even if you use multiple physical disks instead of multiple partitions on the same disk. Each OS has it's own MBR which resides on the first partition of the first disk. This is why if you set up a dual boot (both in primary partitions) between Win 9.x and Win NT, and you decide to rid yourself of 98 by deleting the 98 partition, you will not be able to boot into NT. You killed the NT boot files. The only way you can have a multi boot setup and have all the OS's truely independent is to use a drive selector, such as the Trios.

See here: http://www.romtecusa.com/start.htm

When he creates a logical partition using PartionMagic, the Windows NT setup will put the NT boot files in the proper place. All he has to do is install NT Server into the newly created logical drive. NT will modify the boot loader and when he boots up he'll have his new NT Server OS as an option on his boot menu.



[This message has been edited by mpc (edited 05-22-2002).]

[LotusAstra]

mpc, You are speaking of the M$ way of doing it, this is not totally correct for all situations, as John Dos has partition magic (with 2 copys of win98 installed) i assume he is hiding his non active primary partitions so as what DrMDJ's saying is correct.

Don't underestimated the power of partition/boot magic...

with partition/boot magic I have setup on one of my PC's 3 primary partitions containing:

Part1: Win98
Part2: WinME
Part3: WinXP

As siad it has to be setup so that the primary partition(s) not made active are HIDDEN, so the boot files for XP are on the XP partition meaning I can (and have done) reformat/install both 98 & ME again and WinXP would still boot.

When he creates a logical partition using PartionMagic, the Windows NT setup will put the NT boot files in the proper place. All he has to do is install NT Server into the newly created logical drive. NT will modify the boot loader and when he boots up he'll have his new NT Server OS as an option on his boot menu.

That will work but he will lose the the OS independence, due to boot file placment etc... But b'cuz the partition limits have been reached i think its the only way to do it on one drive, only other option is install on another disk as "DrMDJ" said which is what i'd do if i wanted more than 3 OS's for reasons mentioned below, but 3's enuf for me anyway.

I personally have not ever set up 4 primary partitions all containing OS's (3's my limit) because i too need the last extended partition for my logicals, and wiv the best value HDD's now being around the 60/80GB mark, having 4 OS's all on primarys would be unpractical b'cuz i only need 2GB per OS and i wouldn't be able to use the rest of the unallocated space for an extended. i guess i could get a 10GB HDD just for OS's but thas just expensive GB's per $$$.

Regards http://discussions.virtualdr.com/smile.gif

------------------
Let us know if/how it worked out!
BackUp Windows BEFORE you break it, then you can experiment & learn all you like!
Cel-300a, 512RAM, Voodoo 3-2000, SB-128, XPpro, 2 HDD's, CD-RW & ROM

[John Dos]

Another Question.

If I get a virus in one operating system, could it infect my other operating systems, thru a extended partition, shared by both systems?

Can I still get a virus, on another OS if they are hidden?

[DrMDJ]

mpc,

The dual boot setup you describe is exactly as I was describing as could be done. But (as LotusAstra also explained), this is not generally a desirable or the conventional way to do things when a product like Partition Magic (and its boot manager Boot Magic) are being used. With a product like this you want to isolate disks and OSes(in particular and with boot or system files) from one another. The idea is to not be in a situation where you have to boot NT to boot another OS. In the case here the new NT server system can be isolated by putting it on the second disk John Dos has (in a created primary partition).

John Dos,

Getting a virus on any of your OSes could certainly lead to it infecting files on partitions (primary or extended/logical) shared with any other OS. In fact even files on partitions "hidden" from an OS could be infected. The truth is that the hiding of a partition from a given OS is really nothing more than a sort of trick. Technically the disk/partition is in fact accessible (in fact with OSes like NT you can see this). So given the right virus it will always be possible for any connected drive to be infected.

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[This message has been edited by DrMDJ (edited 05-23-2002).]

[georgeulrich]

mpc says:
'Each OS has it's own MBR which resides on the first partition of the first disk. This is why if you set up a dual boot (both in primary partitions) between Win 9.x and Win NT, and you decide to rid yourself of 98 by deleting the 98 partition, you will not be able to boot into NT. You killed the NT boot files.'
I am using a dual boot between 98 and XP but I want to get rid of 98. My plan was to use partition magic 7 to rename the C: drive (where 98 resides) to say, J: and then reassign my G: drive (where XP resides) to C: Then I was going to nuke the J: partition. Does this plan seem flawed? Anyone have any other ideas?
Thanks,

[John Dos]

Here is another Twist.

After I set everything up, I tried to install windows 95. But I couldn't, My windows 95 detected a 'non-dos(NT-OS2)parTition' and install aborted.

But I had All my primary partitions HIDDEN. But I beleive my logicals were not hidden.

HOwever, all my partitions are FAT 16

soo why won't win95 install! after my NT and windows 98? That's why I have 2 copies of 98. My windows 98 installs without a glitch. http://www.oldos.d2g.com/ http://discussions.virtualdr.com/cool.gif
http://discussions.virtualdr.com/eek.gif

[Robert M]

My understanding of the maximum amount of primary partitions and other types on one disk is what you state in your first post, and what LotusAstra states in his first post.

Primary partitions on the same physical disk share the same drive letter.

Not sure what you have in terms of primary partitions, but since letter d is assisgned to 98, according to your second post, and you have ONE disk drive according to your first post, you must have an extended partition and at least one logical drive exists within it...D.

Therefore, whether you have two primaries and one logical or three primaries and one logical, I think the rule of thumb is that an extended partition and logical drives should be created last. All primary partitions must be created before any extended partitions.

If you have an existing extended partition, I think it will have to be removed before creating anymore primary partitions. Since Windows 95 requires a primary partiton, you cannot install until one is created.



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I never say thingy.

[LotusAstra]

Originally posted by georgeulrich:
mpc says: 'Each OS has it's own MBR which resides on the first partition of the first disk.

This is why if you set up a dual boot (both in primary partitions) between Win 9.x and Win NT, and you decide to rid yourself of 98 by deleting the 98 partition, you will not be able to boot into NT. You killed the NT boot files.

Opps sorry had to edit out my last reply as i just realised that "georgeulrich" was asking a question, and not saying the things he quoted from "mpc"... i could tell start and end of quote http://discussions.virtualdr.com/biggrin.gif

Anyway with reference to above quote i have a question concerning the MBR: i'm a little unsure about how the MBR works into all this! if someone can explain how the MBR is effected by boot magic's features it would be appreciated, i'm under the impression that the answer is one of the following, most likly "a:" now i think about it?

a: the MBR is made/re-written by boot magic when one changes OS?

b: or just maybe any ACTIVE PRIMARY can carry its own MBR, because when partition 1 is hidden its therefore not accessable so it maybe it goes to partition 2?

Regards http://discussions.virtualdr.com/smile.gif

[LotusAstra]

Just found an interesting link, http://www.trombettworks.com/multi-boot.htm ...while reading it for a little more info into solving this and extending my knowlege I seen the following which may or may not be the case here:

QUOTE from above link:
AFAIR Operating systems can only boot from a partition which starts below 8GB. So you will need to put all the bootable OS partitions as first items in the table. Data partitions should be set in higher cylinders. This is an hardware limitation, and it's not specific to a particular OS, so affects all.

If this is tru for all HDD sizes, Could this be the cause of the last problem?

http://discussions.virtualdr.com/rolleyes.gif

[John Dos]

Another Question! http://discussions.virtualdr.com/biggrin.gif

Does the actual "boot magic" boot screen reside in the mbr??? http://discussions.virtualdr.com/eek.gif

or just does the mbr, just point to the boot magic menu in the partition? http://discussions.virtualdr.com/confused.gif

[LindaHewitt]

WARNING:

Symantec's GoBack software is not compatible with PowerQuest's Partition Magic. I am mentioning this because someone upstream recommended that the GoBack software be used in conjunction with Partition Magic.

Here is a Dr. Jack Crenshaw's monthly column, which illustrates an explosive Murphy's Law. Jack moved from Florida to Arizona and the move included multiple moving vans and a half-dozen other vehicles to move vehicles, boats, livestock and computer equipment. Besides being very humorous, Murphy's law also struck his almost new computer and Jack tells that hardware and software tale as well.

I discovered this as a result of a feedback message to one of David Coursey columns, where he is researching the best and most cost-effective backup solution.

Here is the link to the feedback post.
http://forums.zdnet.com/group/zd.Anchordesk/anchordesk/anchordesktb.tpt/@thread@62541@forward@1@D-,D@ALL/@article@62541?EXP=ALL&VWM=&ROS=1

Now, just in case, here is the direct link to Jack's column.
http://www.embedded.com/story/OEG20020125S0097

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The URL below is a slide presentation, which Gene Barlow gives to various user groups around the country. This presentation details the best hard disk management techniques for using PowerQuest products Partition Magic and / or Drive Image.
http://www.ugr.com/Organize_files/frame.htm

The PowerQuest Corp not only manufactures some of the best software in the world but they also produce the very best documentation and according to Jack Crenshaw, the best technical support group. There is a lot of FAQ information already posted on their website below.
http://www.powerquest.com/support/