backup program

[advan]

Hello!

I was wondering if you can help with my concerning about backing up data files. I use XP, but I wondering if there's a program/freeware I can use for this way of backing up:

I turn on my PC, work and save as normal on my hard drive, then when I shut down, I turn on my portable hard drive (the back up drive). I click on this backup program and it compares my pc's data drive (all my data files are in one drive) and the files on the back up drive, then updates or backs up only the files active that day.

What I do now is, every end of the month, don't laugh, I copy the ENTIRE drive onto the portable hard drive (as in copy-paste). Which takes ages. I'm sure there's a much easier and quicker way to do this and I'm aiming to backup daily before shutdown.

Is there such a program?

Thanks!

[Broni]

Acronis True Image: http://www.acronis.com/ - not free, but the best

Free alternatives:
- Macrium Reflect: http://www.macrium.com/ReflectFree.asp (highly recommended)
- DriveImage XML: http://www.runtime.org/driveimage-xml.htm
- SelfImage: http://www.excelcia.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=21
- Paragon Drive Backup: http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/

[Steve R Jones]

There are a few dozen threads on this very subject that you might want to take a peek at;)

[HAN]

The apps already listed for you are Imaging programs. They backup data and everything else, including Windows. It really is the best thing to do in case of catastrophic problems (drive failure, theft, fire, whatever.) But if all you need is just data backup, then there are other programs that work well like free SyncBack or Karen's Replicator.

Ever the heretic, I use a combo of different Imaging and data only backup apps. My favs are (all paid programs)...
Imaging
ShadowProtect Desktop http://www.storagecraft.com/shadow_protect_desktop.php
Image for Windows/Image for DOS http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/index.htm

Data Sync
GoodSync http://www.goodsync.com/

[advan]

Thanks, Steve. I'm not familiar with these programs (hehe, you can tell as my method was copy paste) and so I wasn't sure if this function I was asking for is out there.

Broni, re Acronium: "Incremental and Differential Backups
Save disk space and time by performing differential and incremental backups" -- is this the answer to my need as posted above, updating only active files used that day?

I was looking at Macrium, but I'm a little confused. Do I understand it right, disk image is like a history/version snapshot? So if there's, say, a steady 100 files in the back up drive, it can have two or more disk images based on how many changes there have been?

Also, on Macrium, it says "Create a disk image whilst running Windows using Microsoft Volume Shadow copy Service (VSS). Version info: Windows XP, and Vista. 32 and native 64 Bit." -- will this be a problem if a Mac wants to use the backup files? (I don't know if there's a connection wrt formatting etc but it seems to mention Microsoft a lot).

Thanks a lot!

[advan]

Han, sorry if this is a question that doesn't even need to see the light of day but why would I backup Windows? And by "everything else incl. Windows", you mean even the programs? Meaning if my PC crashes I can just, copy paste the C drive back up onto a clean slate PC and it's immediately good to go, my existing installed programs are already set, no re-installing needed? Can you feel the excitement in my voice?

[Broni]

Meaning if my PC crashes I can just, copy paste the C drive back up onto a clean slate PC and it's immediately good to go, my existing installed programs are already set, no re-installing needed?
Exactly. Any disaster happens, and 30 minutes later, you're good to go.

I don't use all those programs. I use Acronis, so I can explain one thing for you.
Type of backups:

* Full: All files that match your selection are included into the backup.
* Incremental: Only those files will be included which have been changed since the last backup.
* Differential: Only those files will be included which have been changed since the last FULL backup.

[advan]

Broni, I never considered that... I was under the impression that the system (windows) drive has a direct connection with the hardware, meaning if you make a back up and copy the entire system drive to a new PC it won't work if the old and new PCs have different hardware (motherboard, cards etc).

Another question on incremental backup- will it be able to detect very small changes in documents, too small that the file size remains the same? For example, a word document where you edit one word resulting to zero effect on the file size.

[Midknyte]

I was under the impression that the system (windows) drive has a direct connection with the hardware, meaning if you make a back up and copy the entire system drive to a new PC it won't work if the old and new PCs have different hardware (motherboard, cards etc).

Yes the HAL will be different. You will have to at least do a repair install.
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;824125

Another question on incremental backup- will it be able to detect very small changes in documents, too small that the file size remains the same? For example, a word document where you edit one word resulting to zero effect on the file size.
When you change a file, no matter how small the change, that will set the archive bit. This will tell the backup program to backup the file.

[Broni]

new PC it won't work if the old and new PCs have different hardware (motherboard, cards etc).
You're correct. We're talking here about a disaster within existing hard drive. Either software disaster (Windows), or hard drive failure.
In case of of other disasters, your most important data will be safe anyway.

will it be able to detect very small changes in documents, too small that the file size remains the same? For example, a word document where you edit one word resulting to zero effect on the file size.
Yes, because a file has all kind of stamps: size, date, etc., so if any stamp changes, it's a new file.

[Broni]

Hey Midknyte...I didn't see your post :)

[advan]

Thanks Midknyte and Broni.

Btw, if after the last backup i have files ABCD in the backup drive, when I backup next with only ABC is in my data drive (I deleted file D)-- the backup program will delete D in the back up drive, right? Sorry for the many questions, I just want to make sure; I don't want to muddle my backup files with already deleted ones that's why the copy paste method was my straightforward solution, lol.

Guys, thanks so much. You've helped me so many times!

[Midknyte]

Btw, if after the last backup i have files ABCD in the backup drive, when I backup next with only ABC is in my data drive (I deleted file D)-- the backup program will delete D in the back up drive, right?

When you say "last" backup, i'm guessing it's a full backup. If the next backup is also a full, then it won't include D. The backup program won't delete any files. The backup program makes a backup image file. E.G. Acronis makes .tib backup image files.

I think you're talking about SYNCING, not backups. Syncing would make the files in one folder identical to another.

[advan]

Oohhhh... ok, if daily syncing also means I have backup copies of my files, then syncing seems more appropriate. Is there a program for that?

[Midknyte]

http://sourceforge.net/projects/freefilesync/
http://portableapps.com/apps/utilities/toucan
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=c26efa36-98e0-4ee9-a7c5-98d0592d8c52&DisplayLang=en
http://allwaysync.com/
http://www.2brightsparks.com/syncback/syncback-hub.html

[advan]

Btw, I thought about backing up the system drive (C drive) as Broni mentioned and am doing it now. As I haven't installed any backup software yet, I used the program in XP (Accessories> Backup) and as it is in the process of backing up now, creating a .bkf , I wonder how do I use this? There was an option at the start of a.) backup files and b.) restore backup files. Though I'm using option A now, obviously, when my PC crashes and I'd have to use my backup files, I'll use option B. But to reach this program that restores, I'd have to have XP re-installed in the reformatted pc? Or do I copy paste this backup file to the clean slate C drive and it's good to go?

Will it also work if I just copy paste the entire C drive to make my backup copy?

[Midknyte]

XP Backup is rubbish. Seriously.

That's why Broni recommended Acronis and the other apps. Paragon Backup Express is FREE. You don't just copy and paste files; you need to restore your system from a backup image file.

[advan]

Thanks for the recommendations, Midknyte. I'll go read them now.

[advan]

"you need to restore your system from a backup image file. "

Midknyte, meaning XP has to be re-installed first, then system restore? Btw, I'm talking about a PC crash where Windows doesn't load anymore ok.

Re current c drive backup, Windows Backup aborted. Using Macrium I downloaded earlier instead...

[Midknyte]

meaning XP has to be re-installed first, then system restore?

NO. This should be explained on the product sites.

I'm going to use Acronis as an example.

You install Acronis or boot from the Acronis CD. You create a snapshot image file of your OS (.tib is the Acronis file extension). Let's call it XPSP3.tib. You will need a second partition on the drive, or an external drive (I.E. you can't write the image file to the partition you are imaging). So if C: is your OS partition, you would make the XPSP3.tib on your D: partition.

If C: gets messed up, you boot from the Acronis CD to run the recovery. You just point to the XPSP3.tib file and choose the partition to restore to (in your case C: ). After it's done, you should be able to boot back into Windows.

[Broni]

I'd definitely recommend external drive. One of the reason of keeping images is the case of main drive going south.
When I bought new Vista computer, I surely spent couple of weeks cleaning preinstalled garbage, installing my favorite programs, etc. Then, 6 weeks old drive, BAM!, gone.
If not Acronis....

[advan]

Midknyte, this is what I'm after then? http://macrium.com/webhelp/Starting_with_the_rescue_CD.asp?nohead=y
I'm supposed to make the Bart PE as it's the one for XP- how do I know if my XP's 32 or 64 bit?

Broni, yup, backup's in an external drive.

[Midknyte]

I don't use Macrium. If you don't know BartPE, use Acronis or Paragon like I told you.

Most people use 32-bit XP, so it would be unlikely you used XP64.
To check, go to My Computer - properties. Under the System section it would say:
Windows XP Professional x64 Edition

[advan]

Done, Midknyte. I tried so hard to understand BartPE, but good grief, I had to skip it instead to be sure.

Erased the others and installed Paragon. C has been backed up, but I can't seem to make a Recovery Media Builder? I've used 3 flash drives and they all result to "Bootable Flash creation has failed." From what I understand, I need this, right?

[Midknyte]

Not sure why your bootable flash drives are failing. You can make a bootable CD instead.

Are there any error messages?

[advan]

Weeird. I re-tried now just to find out and it successfully created on all three flash drives. So, all's good.

Thanks a lot, Midknyte!!

[advan]

I posted this in a related but old thread, but I guess it's better to post it in a more recent active one. Sorry, didn't want to start a new thread for such a minor question:

Bootup Checkdisk-- is it an indication of something (bad) when this happens all of a sudden or just a routine operation? I've never encountered this using this pc for years until a while ago. I let it finish scanning and after XP loaded, I restarted and it didn't checkdisk anymore. Just want to know if I should be nervous this happened? Thanks!

[Midknyte]

You mean Chkdsk? You don't need to freak out, but you could run a hard drive diagnostic. Run the drive manufacturer's diags; don't rely on chkdsk.

[advan]

Yup, Chkdsk. Is the drive manufacturer's diags a tool already in my pc or I've to download it? It's drive description is ST, so I think it's Seagate.

[Midknyte]

Is the drive manufacturer's diags a tool already in my pc or I've to download it?

You would need to download it. UBCD has seatools plus, memory diags and a bunch of other useful stuff. Link is in my signature.

You must burn the iso as an image, then boot from the CD.
http://www.petri.co.il/how_to_write_iso_files_to_cd.htm

[advan]

Currently downloading. How do I use it? just keep it in the drive upon power on?

[SpywareDr]

Step 1) Download the "ubcd50b12.iso" file.

Step 2) Burn the "ubcd50b12.iso" file you just downloaded to a CD using "ISO Recorder".

Step 3) Boot your computer from your new "UBCD50b12" CD.

[advan]

Is it really this way? I burned the ubcd50b12.iso using the ISO recorder (right click copy image to cd). It finishes without a problem, but in the two times I did it, the content doesn't reflect on the cd-- no files/folders can be seen, used space vs free space is zero. Are the files in hidden mode or something, or I'm not recording right?

[Midknyte]

Did you try booting from the disc or not? UBCD runs on linux, so you might not see files in Windows.

If that still doesn't work, you can try one of the other methods on the UBCD FAQ (http://ubcd.sourceforge.net/faq.html)

[advan]

:D done. HDDs are good. With 2 disc copies of the diags, learned something new there... don't always believe what Windows says, hehe. Thanks a lot, MidKnyte!!

[advan]

Btw, Midknyte, since I'm asking about HDD health-- it's happened to me thrice this year that upon bootup, it can't find the drives, stopping at "Detecting drives...something".. but after 2 or 3 ctrl-alt-dels, it would bootup fine. Since after the diags that says my drives are ok, am I right to conclude it must be a software problem that's screwing up that a re-format will fix? Thanks again.

[jdc2000]

If the BIOS is not recognizing the drives, it is likely a hardware problem. It could be the controller on the motherboard. Check the motherboard for bad capacitors. It could also be that the drives are taking longer than usual to spin up, but test OK once they do.

[Train]

It could also be that the drives are taking longer than usual to spin up, but test OK once they do.


Power supply to small/ going bad possibly.

[Midknyte]

jdc2000 and Train are on the right track. It's either the motherboard controller or the power to the drives that could be flaky. It might be a weak CMOS battery. You should also check if there are any bios updates relating to the HD controller.

[advan]

Thanks for the help.

Okay, with 3 possibilities, I'll do the CMOS battery first being the easiest. I read up that to check/replace the battery, I've to save or write down CMOS info as the moment I remove it, it'll be erased.

I went to the BIOS part before boot up. There were several categories in the Main Menu (Standard CMOS, Advanced BIOS Features, Adv. Chipset Features, etc). I assume I'll concern myself with the first, Standard CMOS. Which data should I be writing down? When I clicked on Standard CMOS, it was mostly info on the hard drives-- is that it? the HDD labels, i should be noting that?

There was another article that said if some pc's have the capacity to monitor the CMOS battery, which shouldn't be below 2.5V. I don't know if mine can, but under PC Health Status from the Main Menu, there was a listing of temperatures, fan speeds and voltages. Concerning voltages, it listed CPU Vcore (with voltages details) and Battery Voltage = 3.36V. Is Battery voltage referring to the CMOS battery?

[Midknyte]

Check the motherboard for bad capacitors..

Checking for bad capacitors is the easiest.
http://www.badcaps.net/

Looks like the battery voltage is ok.

You don't need to record the HD labels, but you should remember which drive is set to master/slave etc.

[Train]

Not really.

Change out the cmos battery and make sure the contacts are clean.

[advan]

Midknyte, you say the capacitors are the easiest to check. Using the website you referred.. granted their testing tips page is down, am I missing something? The pages were about kits and how to repair. It seems diagnosing if it's the capacitor is vague being a case of "most likely" based on the system and physical signs he listed. So if replacing the battery doesn't work, it's the power, and if that still doesn't work, it the capacitor, right?

Train, how high should the voltage be to consider the battery good?

[Train]

3.0V DC
Had 2.8 not work.

Look at the ones on the right, they are click able.
http://www.badcaps.net/pages.php?vid=5

[advan]

Sorry for the long gap in reply. Life emergencies got in the way.

Going back to the PC-- I reformatted it and re-installed everything to fix the very slow boot up time, so now things are pretty clean. Midknyte, I've a concern though. Trend micro detected trojans in the system folder, which puzzled me since everything's newly installed, including Paragon. And when I scanned the back up data (made via paragon) in the portable drive, it also had the same trojans infecting different .exe files in the restore folder. Trojan is: Worm_small.hyn. Is that something I have to be concerned of and delete? Thanks!

[Midknyte]

http://www.microsoft.com/security/portal/Threat/Encyclopedia/Entry.aspx?Name=Virus%3AWin32%2FSmall.R

When you did the clean install, was your system connected to the internet? The first thing you should do is install all service packs (and hotfixes if available) and install antivirus/antispyware BEFORE connecting to the network.

Worm_small.hyn is transmitted through flash drives, so you better check that your drives aren't infected.

At this point, you probably want to start a thread in Viruses/Trojans/Spyware, since this is no longer a backup question.

[advan]

Thanks for the info, I must have typed it wrong when I entered it on google because nothing came up. I just wanted to be sure it was a virus... because from what I understand, it can happen that some files are tagged as malicious even if they're not. I wasn't sure if Paragon's file format was one of those... and it wasn't, but all's good now.

One last minor question, I noticed that my hard drives don't give close to the correct sizes in when you view its properties . Say my data drive of 80gb, it says 34gb used 38gb available = 72 gb total. Does that mean the missing 8gb is corrupted? I know drives won't be give exact capacity, but off by 8gb? Then when I manually select all files in the data drive, including hidden files, it just totals 26gb and not 34gb? It's not a problem, I just want to understand why.

Thanks very much, MidKnyte.

[Midknyte]

Say my data drive of 80gb, it says 34gb used 38gb available = 72 gb total. Does that mean the missing 8gb is corrupted?
I don't like reinventing the wheel...
Why is my drive displaying a slightly less than expected capacity? (http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=615&p_created=1034613413&p_sid=ESxR9pkh&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9MTEmcF9zZWFyY2hfdHlwZT1zZWFyY2hfZm5sJnBfcHJvZF9sdmwxPSZwX3Byb2RfbHZsMj0mcF9jYXRfbHZsMT0mcF9wYWdlPTEmcF9zZWFyY2hfdGV4dD1taXNzaW5n&p_li=)

[advan]

Oh, ok... off by gb is normal... does that also explain the 26gb and 34gb data disparity? one's showing binary, the other decimal capacity?

[Midknyte]

I'm assuming you read and understand the article about binary vs decimal.

Your pagefile allocation takes up space. If you enable things like hibernation, that takes up space. System restore and recycle bin take up space. These are variable sized parameters, so Windows maybe counting the max size against the available space. I don't think you should be that concerned.

[advan]

I didn't consider that, the data drive having its own system files, recycle bin, etc even if it's not the system/OS drive... I treated it like I would a flash drive, viewable files is just about what's in the drive. I'm not concerned about the disparity in the data drive... just curious why it's that big (almost as big as what's in my c drive).

Thanks, Midknyte.