PDA

Click to See Complete Forum and Search --> : Second thread

photolady
June 22nd, 2006, 11:12 AM
What is the most efficient language to use these days? I have in the past used HTML but have not built any webpages/sites in about 6 years. So, I know it's changed a lot since then.

Which one is easiest to use?
Tuttle
June 22nd, 2006, 11:17 AM
For the actual web page code, it's still HTML (or XHTML now), although there's more emphasis on using CSS for style information rather than embedding it in the HTML code.

For server-side scripting, the big popular ones are PHP and ASP.NET, although ColdFusion etc are still popular enough.
JPnyc
June 22nd, 2006, 11:23 AM
HTML or XHTML are required for any website. CSS isn't a necessity, but you can't get terrific results without it. Javascript is still the clientside procedural language.

Serverside, it's a wide open ballpark. There's more ss languages than there are diners in NY. PHP is up there, along with Java as JSP, ASP, and ASP.NET. But you'll also find C# and Perl.
photolady
June 22nd, 2006, 11:23 AM
although there's more emphasis on using CSS for style information rather than embedding it in the HTML code. And you totally lost me because I have no idea what CSS is or how it's used. Could you explain this please?

Joe.........HUH? LOL Get too technical and I run. ;)
JPnyc
June 22nd, 2006, 11:27 AM
Cascading Style Sheets are used for styling HTML now. No longer the older HTML attributes inside the tag. This separates the styling from the HTML and puts it all in once place (in the head of the doc) You used to see <body bgcolor=", but now you would see
<style type="text/css">
body { background-color: #FFF; }
</style>
</head>
<body>
photolady
June 22nd, 2006, 11:36 AM
The only thing is VDR doesn't have the ability to show me what it looks like as you iniate the code, so how can I tell what that looks like when in use.

I want to learn how to create webpages with using code, and using any other codes needed, like the CSS thing. I seem to remember there being something about CSS when I used Macromedia's software those years ago. Usually I just used a wizzywig software to build webpages.
liam858
June 22nd, 2006, 11:42 AM
You should be able to view it in Frontpage, i'm guessing you used the wizzywig in Dreamweaver...although the example Joe posted above isn't gonna show you a lot, as it is an example i think.

Try this:

<table>
<tr><td class="subtext">this is line 1</td></tr>
<tr><td class="subtext">this is line 2</td></tr>
<tr><td class="subtext">this is line 3</td></tr>
</table>

Copy+Paste into FP, then edit the text to say whatever you like, then File|Preview In Browser.


Liam
maxximilian
June 22nd, 2006, 11:50 AM
Funny....I never really got comfortable with CSS and still code directly into each page. I suppose I should get out of the dark ages and use them....but old habits are hard to break....

From the server side....it seems like PHP is the rising star...and most every forum I visit uses it.

Photolady....think of a Cascading Style Sheet like it is an artist's palette. As you paint your picture you are constantly going back and forth for a dab of this and a drip of that. An webpage does the same thing....going to the CSS to get colors, text attributes, etc....

The upside is that many pages can use the same CSS....just like an artist can paint many picture with the same palette. :)
JPnyc
June 22nd, 2006, 12:05 PM
CSS is the present and future. Once you do learn it, you'll see it's more efficient and more powerful. Check out the source code on this (http://www.jpages.net/Morea/moreaPics.htm) page I wrote for a friend of mine. If you used a table for those thumbnails, you'd need 122 tags, not counting the actual image tags, thats 122 just for the table.. I used a total of 6.
Train
June 22nd, 2006, 12:10 PM
And when you do use css, you have to watch it as it will break some versions of IE.
There is a work around that other browsers do not see, and this workaround causes the older versions of IE to just jump to the end of the .css.

Clear your IE cache, come back to vdr.
Now get off the the net, Go back into your cache and open the .css items up in notepad.
JPnyc
June 22nd, 2006, 12:12 PM
You're referring to the !important hack? Yep, that's a useful one alright. I use it anytime I have a situation where FF and Opera agree, and IE doesn't.
Train
June 22nd, 2006, 12:28 PM
LOL

Yes I was. Also noticed the cut back in the amount of .css you use.
Nice to see. IE 5 did not break on me a few weeks ago when I had to use it.
Yep that old of a browser was all that was on that rig. :(
JPnyc
June 22nd, 2006, 12:31 PM
Cut back where, here on VDR? I haven't changed a thing here in ages, css anyway. I added a feature or 2 but didn't touch the styling.
Train
June 22nd, 2006, 12:34 PM
Sure seems less than what found sometime ago. But then, it has been quite some time since I checked things out too.
photolady
July 3rd, 2006, 01:11 PM
but old habits are hard to break.... Maybe that is why CSS never appealed to me. The only time I tried using a CSS, it didn't work or I didn't understand how to put it in the code so it did work. I think it was a background I was trying to use a CSS for and not really knowing what I was doing, of course it didn't work.

So what do most of you use for creating webpages?
JPnyc
July 3rd, 2006, 01:34 PM
Well there are so many things possible with CSS that just aren't possible without it. For instance, suppose you had a site with 10 pages, and you wanted to change the header color and font styles for all 10 pages. You'd need to go into each page and make the changes. With CSS you'd make one change to one remote file to affect em all.
ecross
July 3rd, 2006, 01:58 PM
I use FrontPage and have been using it on my site for a few years now.
104456
July 3rd, 2006, 02:25 PM
So its basically like a style template that all the related pages refer to if Im reading you correctly?
photolady
July 3rd, 2006, 04:13 PM
I checked my computer and it doesn't have Frontpage, so I will have to see if I can get it. Or something similar. I still have my copy of Dreamweaver if I can find it that is. It's probably a bit outdated though come to think of it.

Back to work now. Will check back later for more instructions....eh, Joe. ;)
JPnyc
July 3rd, 2006, 04:14 PM
Well it can be that, if you use it as a remote style sheet and link all the pages to it. But you can also embed it in a single page and also inside a single HTML tag
ProfessorU
July 3rd, 2006, 04:53 PM
I use notepad and photoshop CS2. I programmed my pride and joy (www.sixbulletsmovie.com) completely by hand. This gives me more control over how the code is layed out and helps search engines navigate my pages more effectively.

Frontpage is nice if you just want to include interactive features/forms and don't want to learn ASP or ASP.NET. But the code can get bloated, and usually doesn't validate. The Macromedia stuff is nice for flashy, splashy pages, but can be difficult to get used to using and ill-suited to low-bandwidth users.

CSS is awesome. ZenGarden (http://www.csszengarden.com/) gives an example of what you can do with external CSS. If you wanted to draw your webpage like someone else's page, you can link your page to their external CSS file. Of course, that's assuming your XHTML formatting is done the same way. CSS lets you layout content specific to the media/format you're using. So you can use 14pt font for the screen, and 10pt font for print. You can also format your data for use in non-visual browsers or for portable devices like cellphones. All these formats would use the same XHTML but different CSS. In addition to external CSS, there is internal (like JPnyc's example) and inline (which bears some similarity to HTML 4.0 in it's application). Don't forget, users can specify a local CSS file on their machine to change the way pages display (for example to increase readability of small type).

I could type for way too long, but you can probably find 99% of your answers at these must-read free websites for using XHTML and CSS:
www.w3.org - The official XHTML & CSS standards
www.w3schools.com
www.alistapart.com

In addition, there are some GREAT javascript and IFrame tools at www.dynamicdrive.com
JPnyc
July 3rd, 2006, 04:56 PM
I couldn't get the thing to load. Is it normally slow?
ProfessorU
July 3rd, 2006, 05:24 PM
Which thing?
JPnyc
July 3rd, 2006, 06:14 PM
Your page. Just now it loaded in half a sec though, so it must've been some momentary glitch.
photolady
January 26th, 2007, 12:12 PM
I know this thread is almost a year old now, but I'm resurrecting it anyway. I need help here as I've now gotten a copy of FP (I thought I did) and I found my original domain name is still available. I still have to find a webhosting site and if anyone has an idea about that I would appreciate help on this part. I think I used my isp before as I got 5mb free, which of course wasn't for businesses, and that is the main object on this new one. A place to upload my saleable photographs would be nice. Just to clarify, I don't want to use webhosting like those offered at yahoo, etc.


EDIT: I thought I had FP but looking under program files, I see a folder that says it's on my computer but opening that folder only shows me another folder entitled Version 3.0, and under that folder is another entitled "Bin". What's that mean? I do have FrontPage or I don't have FrontPage?
zipulrich
January 26th, 2007, 04:29 PM
1st Page 2000 does a nice job, and you can't beat the price ;)
Link (http://www.evrsoft.com/1stpage2.shtml)
photolady
January 26th, 2007, 05:46 PM
Thanks zipulrich. I have heard of 1st Page 2000 before but on thinking this morning, couldn't remember what it was called. I'll give it a whorl.
104456
January 27th, 2007, 04:47 AM
There a freeware web page designer I cant think of the name at the moment but if I get a chance I`ll look it up unless someone else pipes in with the answer.
Front Page should be on your office CD if you have it to hand though some hosts dont support its extensions so you will have to check.
photolady
January 27th, 2007, 11:09 AM
After looking at 1st front page 2000, it's now up to 2006 and it's not wizzywig, which is what I want. I don't code very well at all, so I need one that allows me to just type what I want and it codes it for me. Though I have been able in the past to edit HTML coding when I find something wrong on the wizzywig part, I'll probably never go completely HTML coding to build a site.

10, I found CoffeeCup also and was looking at that one but I haven't figured out if it's wizzywig and if it's free.

I have in the past also used Adobe's PageMill but I'm not sure that will even run on XP Pro as I bought it when I had win98FE. And I still have DreamWeaver whatever version it was in 2000.

Any other input about webhosting sites would help too.
104456
January 27th, 2007, 11:55 AM
I think this may be what I was refering to: AceHTML Freeware (http://software.visicommedia.com/en/products/acehtmlfreeware/)
Interface
Perl, XML, WML, ASP, PHP, ColdFusion, CSS, and JavaScript code coloration
Desktop Manager
Integrated viewer
International alphabet support

HTML Management
HTML forms creation
Frames creation/editing
Tables creation/editing
HTML lists creation/editing
Image maps creation
Font definitions
HTML Manager dockable to the Tools window
Hypertext link insertion
Images insertion
Paste-as-HTML feature
RTF files importation

Quality Assurance
Spelling checker (Microsoft Word required)
HTML Syntax Checker
Code Management
Library of 175 JavaScripts and DHTML scripts
Custom buttons
Document evaluation
Code Explorer
JavaScript manager dockable to the Tools window
Code templates
Extended search and replace

Project Management
File Manager
Bookmark management
Save HTML page as template
Code highlighting
Upload files via FTP (AceFTP required)

Design and Styles
Access to more than 40,000 graphics via GOgraph
Style Sheet Editor

Old tutorial but it may be worth a read (http://acehtml.pysmatic.net/tutorial.htm)
photolady
January 27th, 2007, 05:52 PM
I'm going to try Trellian as it's a wysiwyg free webpage builder. I found it searching google and have heard of it before but couldn't remember the name. A friend in Canada used it to build websites for herself and another friend of mine.

http://www.trellian.com/webpage/
DanC
January 28th, 2007, 12:38 AM
Try Nvu. Open source freeware and wysiwyg. It makes pretty clean html code that is cross-browser friendly.
http://www.nvu.com
photolady
January 31st, 2007, 04:29 PM
Thanks Dan. I downloaded Nvu, haven't installed yet. I tried Trellian and on install it went to custom install with three objects to check or uncheck, one being Toolbar, I wasn't sure if that was spyware or not :eek: so I exited the install. Will try Nvu this weekend when I'm off work and on my own time.
ProfessorU
May 14th, 2007, 11:04 PM
I've been working on a school newspaper project using ASP 1.0. It's perfect for a newspaper website since it's much more dynamic than most of the 'storefront' type sites I've done so far. I'm still coding by hand but it makes changing things much faster.
Ubiquitous News (http://theubiq.com)
photolady
May 15th, 2007, 01:40 AM
I found my Dreamweaver and will install it this week. I looked at and installed NVU which I will also be checking out this week while I'm on vacation.

Now I just have to find a host and get a domain name. Our internet service doesn't offer any webpage space, so I have to do this on my own. I did find my domain name is still available at $8.99 per month, now I just have to get the funds to pay for it and find a webhosting service.
DanC
May 15th, 2007, 03:13 AM
Did you mean $8.99 a year? That would be a reasonable price for a domain name. Basic web hosting can be found for about $5 a month. Go with a well known provider such as GoDaddy or 1and1. You might find a package deal for the domain name and hosting and save some money.
photolady
May 15th, 2007, 03:32 AM
Yes, Dan, it was a year. But webhosting was $8.95 a month. I used godaddy to check for both domain name availability, and webhosting prices. I've never heard of 1and1, do you have a url for that one?
DanC
May 15th, 2007, 03:58 AM
http://www.1and1.com/

I've had a hosting package there for a few years. I just renewed one of the basic hosting sites at a cost of less than $30 for six months. That's less than $5 a month.
Train
May 15th, 2007, 07:12 AM
Watch the bandwidth. Some will cut you off when you reach it, while others will just send you a bill for it at a it will be sticker SHOCK.
photolady
May 15th, 2007, 11:12 AM
Thanks Dan for the link and additional info. And thanks Train for the heads up. Will watch out for the limited bandwidth.
ProfessorU
May 17th, 2007, 02:17 PM
I'm on 1and1 too. I'm pretty happy with them. Huge huge bandwidth in my package, 120GB storage, 1.2TB of transfer per quarter. They claim 99.99% uptime. My logs claim 99.93% or so. The telephone support isn't very good, but they add a lot of features to even their basic packages. Far and away the cheapest host I've found with FTP/frontpage access.
hmmm
May 17th, 2007, 05:11 PM
I see you are going to tery NVU Photolady. Hope you'll like it. I am a novice really and using NVU. I have made my web site with this software. If you decide to use NVU and have any views and findings with this software please publish it here.
Good luck.
PS. You might like to read below thread...it is about a little problem I was having with NVU.
http://discussions.virtualdr.com/showthread.php?t=219875