What can I build with this?

[lgbpop]

OK, I need some (a lot) of tech help. I bought a new hard drive because it was on sale (a Maxtor 160gig SATA 150, 7200 rpm) with grandiose plans on upgrading my trusty ole HP w/98SE. Now, I'm wondering if maybe I should build one from scratch, then transfer the 98SE to the new creation. Anyone want to help? $$ is an issue, but not insurmountable.

[SuperSparks]

Sure we'll help :)

But first of all I would question the wisdom of installing Win98 on a new machine, you're likely to run into problems with getting W98 drivers for some new hardware now. If you really want to stick with Win98 then upgrading the old m,achine might be the better option.

[lgbpop]

I'd prefer to remain with the 98SE. Have dabbled with Win2000, NT, and ME; have owned an XP for three years now. Still can't beat the 98SE for user-friendliness; ME was buggy, NT and 2000 are quirkazoids, and XP is downright evil. Even its visuals drive me crazy--it's not just coincidence that the root word of lunacy is Luna.

Hahhhhh, that makes me feel so much better. Anyhow, are there any specific drivers you had in mind? Or did you mean that versions for 98SE just don't exist? I've substituted ME drivers whenever necessary the past couple of years, they seem to work fine. Actually, your idea of updating intrigues me. Make a "sleeper" out of that Plymouth Valiant-looking HP Pavilion! Where would I proceed next, then? My next post, I'll be on the machine in question and will attach an Everest summary and a few other things so you know what I have.

[SuperSparks]

I didn't have any specific drivers in mind, it's just that you may find that there are no 98 drivers for some of the latest hardware. It will be OK as long as you check first that you can get W98 drivers though. Also, there is more and more software that requires W2000 or XP to run.

It's odd how people's opinions differ, I hated Win98 with a vengeance, and I thought I'd died and gone to heaven when Win2000 came along :D :D

Let's see what hardware you've got and we can go from there.

[lgbpop]

Wow, it looks like an antique reading the specs alone...:o Nevertheless, I like it and want to update/improve/enhance it. I was thinking of new mobo to accomodate SATA hard drive, way more memory (to 98SE's limit) and faster CPU. See attached Everest report. Looking forward to suggestions not involving dumpsters or hammers!:D

[photolady]

Not to be rude or anything but could you copy and paste that info from Everest in this post. I dislike downloading anything with the extension txt.

[Train]

I'll mess with the report for you.

Motherboard:
CPU Type Intel Celeron-A, 500 MHz (7.5 x 67)
Motherboard Name TriGem Cognac
Motherboard Chipset Intel Whitney i810
System Memory 64 MB (PC100 SDRAM)

Display:
Video Adapter Intel(R) 82810 Graphics Controller
3D Accelerator Intel i752

IDE Controller Intel 82801AB Ultra ATA Controller
IDE Controller Primary Ultra ATA Controller
IDE Controller Secondary Ultra ATA Controller
SCSI/RAID Controller Iomega Parallel Port Interface
Floppy Drive GENERIC NEC FLOPPY DISK
Disk Drive ST313021 A (12 GB, 5400 RPM, Ultra-ATA/66)
Optical Drive SAMSUNG CD-ROM SC-140 (40x CD-ROM)
SMART Hard Disks Status OK

We still need te model of that computer.
Need to add at least another 64MB of ram.

[photolady]

The model number of your HP would help, Igbpop. If we had that, I could search HP's site and find more info that we could use the tell you what you could or couldn't upgrade.

[lgbpop]

Duh, sorry lol:o Coulda sworn I included that! It's an HP Pavilion 6636. Forgot its birthday but it's around October of 1999, we bought it in Feb '00. Thx for the HP site help, have no idea where to start or what to start with.
Know about the RAM, would like to bring it to at least the 256MB that the existing system can handle. I'm sure with only 64MB the computer spends half its time in swap file. With upgrades would like at least 512MB. I've read that 98SE won't handle a gig, no need for that much anyway. I'm not a gamer, don't play music through the computer. Would like better graphics, speed and storage--that's why I bought the 160GB HD (SATA150). It'll force me to improve and update things. The only update I've done recently was on the 82810 graphics drivers I believe, was a few months ago. Definitely want a more powerful CPU--the Celeron was competitive then, but this is now.

[Train]

Well with that rig you are limited to 256 MB (2 x 128 MB DIMM)

HP Pavilion PC Model 6636 (US) - Product Specifications (http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?dlc=en&lc=en&product=57648&cc=us&dest_page=product&docname=bph05259)

And from what I have tested out,98SE with 384Mb of ram is the sweet spot. 512 will cause some programs to actually slow down.

HP Pavilion 6636 Desktop PC (US) starting point in P. (http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/product?dlc=en&lc=en&cc=us&dest_page=product&product=57648)

Now here it says you can use 2 sticks of 256.
Motherboard Layout and Information (http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?dlc=en&lc=en&product=57648&cc=us&dest_page=product&docname=bph07169)

[lgbpop]

Wish I understood all that, but I'm not quite at that level. Do I understand correctly that the CPU can be changed on the existing mobo? My present one runs around 500mHz, but the site said the mobo would support up to 800mHz. Is there any connection between processor speed and optimum RAM capacity? Afraid this raises more questions--love to hear the answers. Any ideas brewing yet?

[Abhoth]

1) A jump from 500 to 800mhz is really not worth the money, considering that most modern processors are running 2000mhz and above. And that's the low end (read that as not expensive!)

2) There is no relation between processor speed and the RAM capacity ... the capacity is limited by the motherboard. And the "type" of RAM that goes into that board, as it's old, is basically crap by today's standards. Apologies, call 'em as I see 'em... ;-)

3) Win XP rocks, I too held out... couldn't give up my good old Win98se... I didn't care how often I had to reload the damn thing!
And if you don't like the visuals of XP, I don't like the cartoon either, you can set it for best performance and make it look like Win98.
But the main reason for an OS upgrade is simply security ... security be number one and then driver compatibility/availability.

4) And it all boils down to the fact that it's an HP ... sorry, they are not generally great machines and upgradability is quite limited. So, you can throw good money after bad ... or build a real machine.

[lgbpop]

How much is involved in replacing the motherboard to accomodate modern processor and more memory?

[SuperSparks]

It's not hard at all. Provided you don't have a tiny tower (in which case you'd be resticted to Micro ATX motherboards), and ATX mobo will fit. It's simply a case of unplugging all the connectors, unscrewing the motherboard, moving any standoffs that need moving, and screwing the new one in. Here are a couple of good how-to's to give you a good idea of what is involved:

Build your own PC (http://www.hardwarecentral.com/hardwarecentral/tutorials/109/1/)

Build an Intel PC (http://www.intel.com/personal/resources/build/index.htm?iid=tw_us+build&)

[lgbpop]

So far, so good...all I need is a hammer and pliers, and I'm good to go.:D All kidding aside, please clarify "standoffs"--you mean the removable disk drives, hard drive and PCI cards, or something else? Also, am I limited to an ATX board out of all those made or is that the best option? Are the newer boards SATA-ready or do they need a PCI card? Last question for now: are processors sold already on the board, or are they modular add-ons so I can pick & choose?

Already bought 2x128MB sticks of PC133 SDRAM to replace that pitiful 64MB mfgr. install, what a difference already--got them for US$20.00 each on clearance (some advantages to owning older computer!) Not worried about replacing them with more RAM on new mobo; I have two other computers of marginal worth that I can upgrade a bit and use at work, so the 128s can be used in them.

TIA for your patience with all of my questions.

[Train]

There are metal and plastic standoffs that attach to the case and the mobo is fastened to them through the holes in the mobo.
This one is screwed in, but it will give you a idea of what they look like.

http://www.barovelli.com/comp/mint/mbstandoff.jpg

[beanman2k]

With all said, you could save quite a bit of time and money and buy a low end Dell that would outperform your current system. I just looked at a special buy for $299 that even included the monitor.

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=D50802V&s=dhs

Just my two cents worth. :cool:

[Train]

Is the learning experience worth it?
I says yes it is, plus the fact what you whip out, will more up to date and more upgradable than a Dell will ever be.

Once you see how easy computers go together, you will wonder why you ever bought a name brand. But, I will admit that building is not everyone's bag.

[beanman2k]

Train: I agree in most part. My suggestion was in ref. to upgrading the current HP system in question, which really doesn't have much room for any appreachable gain. I'm not sure if the new hard drive is even useable. I noticed it has integrated video, which leaves a big hole.

Now, if the idea is to build a new system, by all means, go for it. The help available on this board is the best and will always steer you in the right direction. :)

[lgbpop]

With all said, you could save quite a bit of time and money and buy a low end Dell that would outperform your current system. I just looked at a special buy for $299 that even included the monitor.

Just my two cents worth. :cool:


I hear where you're coming from. I think building from scratch would be fun, though. Besides, not looking for overall ultra-high performance. This will be more of a project to keep my free time to a minimum.

[Train]

Well, you can install a 64MB PCI video card. You will notice that to make a difference as the card will take some of the load off the cpu, thus allowing it [the cpu] to do other things.

[GodMonstr]

Hi:

Some MBs you may purchase have sound and video built in (to save overall costs) be sure new MB has enough slots for your cards (video, sound, etc) exept your current MB may have these built in and the new one may not then you have to look to getting new video card for new board. Look around at some of the MB/CPU combos at zipzoomfly.com or pricewatch.

Kevin

[beanman2k]

lgbpop:
your point is well made. I always build my own desktop systems and always will. I wasn't sure how much you were willing to play. Good for you!
As to laptops, thats another story. Good luck and I hope I can jump in again with some real help.

Have fun

[lgbpop]

Okay, here's another question that I hope isn't too dumb: What if anything on the motherboard determines how fast a processor I can put on it? On my computer the HP specs say there's a processor limit of 800Mhz (500Mhz Celeron installed), but doesn't say why that's the limit. Is it a function of the heat buildup or design limits of the circuitry, or both, or neither?

[104456]

Its a design limit of the motherboard basically the processor setting is a multiplication of the Front side bus speed [MHZ] and whats called the multiplier both or either of which may a set of jumpers on older boards or on newer boards may be set in the bios or even automatically by a locked processor.

So if your board is say running at 100MHZ Front side bus and a maximum multiplier of 8 then that gives you the 800MHZ.

Hope this helps explain it a little.

[104456]

I did find this additional information on the board posted by another user of the HP 6630 range:
www.donovansmith.us/node/2

[lgbpop]

Interesting stuff. If I understand all this, by changing the jumper settings you can manipulate the FSB and multipliers and create a higher processor speed, within limits. This is the "overclocking" I've read about, right? Aside from acrid smoke and flames, what determines a board's limits?

[Abhoth]

There are many factors in regard to a successful overclock ... The term "Hewlett Packard" is not among those factors. Would strongly suggest not playing the OC game with an HP of any sort ... I have a vision of spontaneous combustion, does bring a chuckle, sorry. :p

[104456]

Its not just the limitations of the boards bios which may not even have the ability written in but also the processor which limits the overclock in that thermal temperatures increase significantly the faster the processors Front side bus or multiplier is set.Thus it may need better cooling plus the voltage applied to the processor may need increasing in 0.1 volt steps until it runs more stable i.e. does not crash the system.
To those who do it its very much an art of jugling performance against design limits.
There are different limitations on the same processor designed speed as not all are the same issue an example of the A series Celeron 500MHZ is the following quote but as has already been said its unlikely the bios HP provide will have these settings written in and altering the FSB can also affect other components on the board:

7.5 x 75MHz = 563MHz
7.5 x 79MHz = 593MHz
7.5 x 81MHz = 608MHz
7.5 x 83MHz = 623MHz
7.5 x 100MHz = 750MHz*
7.5 x 103MHz = 773MHz*
7.5 x 112MHz = 840MHz*

* = Very rare and difficult to achieve. Success rate below one in five
http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/celeron_oc/c.shtml

[lgbpop]

Wow, thx so much for all the info. Gonna go shopping and see what I come up with; the end result may not be even close to what I envisioned but it oughta be interesting. Will post back after I order the goodies.

[lgbpop]

Bought from Tiger Direct, nice site & good prices. I tried to allow for flexibility and expansion/upgrades in future, let's see how badly I messed up. Ordered an ABIT KV7 motherboard/AthlonXP 3000+ CPU, 2.16GHz that can be tweaked upward a little if I understand all the tech stuff. One thing about my present HP is being limited by 3 PCI slots; this one's got 5 slots for gizmos and is already SATA-ready. Also got 3x256MB RAM, PC3200/400MHz. Not too hung up on the video, so I went with a Radeon 7000 video card--seemed to be pretty good for basic needs and can always upgrade. Looks like I'm building a whole new computer instead of upgrading the HP! If it will fit in one of my crash-test Compaq cases, good. If it doesn't, I've got a 1920's double-door RCA radio console that might make a neat (hidden) computer case; about 16"h x 22"w x 14"d, 4-footed pedestal base, solid ash. Could use help regarding power supply, case fan and CPU heatsink and/or fan. So many choices it's bewildering. Thx in advance as usual.

[Train]

If those are Presario cases, forget them. That mobo is just to big.
Now it just might fit into a Prosignia case.
I have to mod the case to get 2 case fans in.
low in front to blow in and a second one just below the powersupply blowing out. Gots to get cool air into the case and the heated air out of it.

Power supply, 450w minimum and of a good brand. Read fairly expensive because if you upgrade your video card, you will need a molex connector dedicted for the video card. So why by another PS.

[lgbpop]

Any PSU brand names you know of or recommend? Also, the CPU fans seemed like overkill at first, but now I'm not so sure. Any ideas there? Also, does the fan preclude the need for a heat sink, or is there a heat sink built into the fan? Lastly, aside from the mobo size, do my components seem to go together or is it just a collection of components?

[Train]

PS brands, Antec, Enermax or Thermaltake. $40 and up in price at Newegg (http://www.newegg.com/ProductSort/Category.asp?Category=32)

The hsf [heatsink and fan combination] keep that cpu from destroying itself in less than a .1 second.
Now if you bought a retail package, the one that comes with it will be plenty good enough Or at least it should be. Now if that is a OEM chip, then you need to purchase one.

[lgbpop]

Guess I'll wait until it's in my hands and see if it has one. If it doesn't have the hsf, any suggestions brand-wise?

[liam858]

Zalman.




Liam

[lgbpop]

Hark! I hear the voice of he who types older than he is.... :D :D

Zalman is durable? Once I get this beastie assembled I hope to leave it that way for a while, working of course. Any brands you all can safely say are worth avoiding?

[liam858]

Hark! I hear the voice of he who types older than he is....

:D


Yep Zalman's are durable, i'm not sure which brands to steer clear of, mainly the cheap ones made by the site that you buy them from are usually not worth touching, just make sure you get your moneys worth, and look at makes such as Zalman/Gigabyte/Antec/Akasa/Thermaltake.


Liam

[lgbpop]

While I'm waiting for my order from Tigerdirect (been a week already, gotta call them tomorrow about the holdup) I have a few questions that're going to lead to a lot more. What exactly is the role BIOS plays in a computer? I see it being talked about here and there, but exactly what it does is a mystery to me. Is it programmed into the motherboard during manufacture, or how and when does it get added to the unit? How does one update it? One vendor says they can update the BIOS for my HP, for example, for about $60 US; other brands have downloadable BIOS updates online it seems. When I am ready to add the OS to my homebuilt machine, what are the steps I have to take? Thx in advance for the education.

[Train]

Let us start with the this webopedia definition of BIOS. (http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/B/BIOS.html)

How BIOS Works (http://computer.howstuffworks.com/bios.htm) is a a good 7 page article on the question you asked.

As for updating the BIOS, unless there is something in the update, that will stop errors you are getting or is adding a feature that you have to have, the best thing to do is leave it alone.

[bistro]

As for updating the BIOS, unless there is something in the update, that will stop errors you are getting or is adding a feature that you have to have, the best thing to do is leave it alone.

I will ditto that three times over. I see it all the time on this and other tech forums...people attempting to upgrade their BIOS's like they do when upgrading software like antivirus programs. Unfortunately, I've even seen it given as bad advice:
"My desktop wallpaper has weird colors to it."---"Upgrade your BIOS".
"Microsoft Word won't indent paragraphs".--- "Upgrade your BIOS".
"It hurts when I move my head to the left"---"Upgrade your BIOS".

Beware of such "shotgun effect" advice....people who recommend a BIOS upgrade so casually do NOT understand what the BIOS is all about and obviously think that a BIOS upgrade is the cure-all for all computer woes. Rule of thumb: a BIOS upgrade is ONLY necessary if it adds an additional feature that you really need. If it is done wrong, flashing the BIOS can ruin the system. This is a case of "If it works, don't fix it". Yes, yes....I've heard all the people out there who say "Why....I've done it a thousand times and never had a problem". My answer is: Why did you waste the time doing it? What was the profit to your system? Who cares that you now have "version 2.54" instead of "version 2.53"?
While there ARE very legitimate circumstances to perform a BIOS flash, most users do perfectly fine without it.

My 2¢....the soapbox is now available for someone else... :D

[liam858]

As for updating the BIOS, unless there is something in the update, that will stop errors you are getting or is adding a feature that you have to have, the best thing to do is leave it alone.



Ditto, leave well alone unless you really need to.


When I am ready to add the OS to my homebuilt machine, what are the steps I have to take? Thx in advance for the education.


Insert the CD and reboot, if setup begins or you see a message to press any key to boot from CD then do so, follow the easy steps of the install wizard.:)


Liam

[lgbpop]

That seems too easy Liam! I have to format the new HDD first, do I not? Now you all see what I meant at the start of the thread... :o I thought that, with a never-used HDD and brand-new everything else, there'd be some prep work before inserting the CD into the drive. If the whole process is self-driven that's amazing.

[liam858]

http://www.theeldergeek.com/xp_home_install_-_graphic.htm

Basic rundown and screenshots^^^:)


Liam

[lgbpop]

I was checking some other threads and saw Spooky Man G's about building a new machine....saw the Antec case and it was something.

Given all the stuff I've ordered so far, would 350 watts be enough from the new PSU or should I go for the 450W? I like the power idea, but that was a CASE.

[liam858]

Do you mean the Antec SLK3700 case, do you like it aesthetically or ergonimically? I like it ergo because it offers loads for the size, don't particularly like the way it looks though.

If the difference in PSU's you have been browsing are not much price wise (I would guess they would be around the same price) then it would give you some futureproofing to get the 450w, so at least you can add what you like and not have to worry, because you have sufficient power for quite a lot of drive/fans/lights/a ferris wheel, whatever you like:D (to a further extent than 350w)


Liam

[Train]

I have that case and will use it after I get a larger PS. 5 or 6 HDDS and 2 dvd burners. Well that equals a load in my book.

The front and rear 120mm case fans do a real nice job of cooling things.

No if you are wondering about future proofing that setup, check this out. (http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=2457)

[lgbpop]

Ergonomically. Aesthetically it looks like Darth Vader met a bench vise. However, gutting the few innards and some funky airbrush shading could do wonders for the case. Then replace the innards and start filling that thing up. Loads of room to expand! Been boning up on BIOS, think I get the basic working premise now. Makes little sense to me now why it's changed so cavalierly by so many. Unless it's absolutely essential I'd rather leave well enough alone. Starting to look at CD-RW drives now, if I need one quicker I have an old Compaq Prolinea to strip for parts. Same with the FDD.

[Train]

Forget the cd-rw get a NEC 3520A or newer dvd burner. It takes care of cds also. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827152039

Or browse through what they list here http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Submit=Browse&Manufactory=1326

[lgbpop]

Will keep that under advisement, Train; PSU comes first, and the wife starting to notice the e-mails from supplier :eek: so I guess with my budget I need to prioritize. The DVD burner can wait. Also gonna buy a case; the old radio case needs too many mods, it would destroy the value (besides, the radio works and I can still get tubes for it). I like this case: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1361676&CatId=1842
Plenty of room to grow and expand into. Case/PSU combos have so-so PSU's--gonna buy separately. I like the following--especially the Xion, plenty of connectors for future use. Is Xion an OK brand?

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1337306&CatId=1079 (leaning toward this one)
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1474225&CatId=1483
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1160718&CatId=0
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1194294&CatId=0

As usual, TIA for the insight and help from all.

Edit/P.S.--here's the motherboard specs while I'm thinking of it:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1498380&CatId=179

[liam858]

I haven't heard of those PSU manufacturers personally(Apart from Coolmax), but that might be because i'm in the UK, so i'm not sure, but if they have an output of 500w+ then they would be a good buy, usually the PSU's purchased with cases, or ones from unknown manufacturers are really cheap and really underpowered, they usually say 500w, but the total output is lower, and you'd be lucky to even run an extra fan without it dying, but these are usually tacky looking and cost about 4 times less than the ones you've found there, so i would say yeah they look worth it, BUT, if you can find a more well known make in the same price range and same output range then i would go for that, because you will more than likely get more life out of if, and maybe a longer manufacturer warranty(should it be needed).

Just my opinion.

Nice board btw........and for $55 its a bargain.

Examples from Tiger: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=184641&CatId=0 http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=184622&CatId=0 http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=184605&CatId=0

Pretty much the same PSU, but different model, at newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817153008

And a 500w Antec: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103937


Liam

[lgbpop]

Power supply, 450w minimum and of a good brand. Read fairly expensive because if you upgrade your video card, you will need a molex connector dedicted for the video card. So why by another PS.

Train, is a dedicated video card connector unusual to find? And is molex just a material or a particular type of connector--# of pins, specific voltage or what?

And Liam, the board and Athlon XP 3000+ came as a combo for US$150 total. Thought it was a good deal myself, but TD is taking their time shipping it. Good thing I'm patient.

[liam858]

And Liam, the board and Athlon XP 3000+ came as a combo for US$150 total. Thought it was a good deal myself, but TD is taking their time shipping it. Good thing I'm patient.

Still a good price for the combo.


Tran is just stating that new Video cards need more power and have a standard molex cable attached (or included) and it needs extra power from the PS to run.

Example: http://www.ocmodshop.com/xfxgffx5700ultra/molex.JPG (Bottom Right black input)

And installed: http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/4241/isntalled3wz.jpg


Liam

[lgbpop]

Neat pics....love that Zalman! Been reading the reviews on the Xion PSUs, think I'm gonna go that route; but for <$10 more I'll get the 600W unit. Tim the Toolman is my guiding light in that regard! :D

[liam858]

Tim the Toolman is my guiding light in that regard

:D

That's a good choice, 600w is quite high end at the moment, should last you a while.


Liam

[Train]

A 600 I would concider as overkill myself. But seeing the price differential is not much. :D

[lgbpop]

I hope to grow into the need for the power; and when my wife sees what I've already bought, h*ll will freeze over before I can buy another one! :eek:
Actually, she's been pretty good about it, with small exceptions. If I boost her allowance (permanently) she'll tolerate this project (temporarily). And I can drag this project out for years with the room I've got for expansion, hee hee! ;)

[Train]

:D :D

Well, mine has her own computer and she sees were we need a 4th rig just for some specialty items. So this fall we will whip one out. I will be using a kvm switch to control it. That will keep ours free to do what we want whileit is taking care of the dedicated stuff.

[lgbpop]

I went with the blue Premium case from TD but decided to get the Xion 600W PSU from Newegg--their product inventory seems to be more stable, had plenty in stock and price was close enough (less than US$90.00). Both are on their way. Should have everything except for HSF and extra case cooler by this Friday.
I just realized, duh, that I need Internet capability. Right now, we have a Linksys 802.11b router set-up, with the main computer on cord and the satellites on wireless. I've read that the 802.11g is backward compatible and works on the same frequency. I will get the newer router eventually, but want to keep it for now. Also read that network components from different mfrs. will work with each other--true? I could save a few dollars buying other than Linksys, but don't want problems. Also, are the USB adapters that look like a flash drive as effective performance-wise as the PCI adapters with the antenna? I'll be flush with USB ports (11), but want to keep the 5 PCI slots for more "important" stuff if possible. Thx again.

[liam858]

Looking at Linksys inparticular, the PCI version seems to have more (better) features, such as better security protocol(s).


Well, the two i looked at were anyway:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=628082

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1512146&CatId=0

And the PCI version is cheaper in this case, but then again Networking is not my strong point, so i may have got them totally wrong, and gave you different standards there.:o


Liam

[104456]

Just to add to your wish list :D

http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/other/zalman-cnps9500/11-s.jpg

The new Zalman CNPS9500 just as effective as water cooling in tests here (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/zalman-cnps9500.html)

[liam858]

Ahh, yes its arrived, check out the pics of the display model: http://discussions.virtualdr.com/showthread.php?t=192731

Imagine if that was a working model.:D


Liam

[lgbpop]

Forgot about the wired USB, but have one of those and they're a pain in the a$$. Was wondering about this type: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1224105&CatId=369
For the price, I may go this route and upgrade later; re-use the cheap one on my crash-test Compaq. :D

Oooo, I like the fan!

[lgbpop]

OK, I just noticed the mobo I'm getting supports either 2 sticks DDR 333/400 OR 3 sticks DDR266. I didn't look closely enough; I ordered 3 sticks DDR 400, (256MB each). Will installing all 3 sticks overload or harm anything, or will it just not see all of the installed memory? :confused: I can always return/exchange if I have to, but hate to wait much longer. The stuff is starting to arrive, and I'm like a kid at Christmas here. (Mobo link in earlier post.)

[104456]

Some motherboards only support the higher speed memory on one or two of the slots and even then it may be restricted to certain tested brands so Id suggest you download and check the manual.

[104456]

Ahh, yes its arrived, check out the pics of the display model: http://discussions.virtualdr.com/showthread.php?t=192731



Please note: This product is expected to arrive in late August. Advance orders are now being accepted.
#: ZM9500
Price: $74.95
Retail: $74.95
QuietPC USA.com (http://www.quietpcusa.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=8&Product_ID=266&CATID=3)

[liam858]

I think its out in the UK...........or starts shipping today.



Liam

[lgbpop]

Will do that, 10. The more I look at it, it's worded such that DDR400 is supported until one exceeds 2GB RAM, so that to cram in 3GB the lower DDR figure is necessary. I wanted 768MB because, rightly or wrongly, I understand 98SE operates best in that range and that it gets squirrelly at or over 1GB RAM. I'll try it anyway, from what I've been researching if there's an effect at all it would be non-lethal.

[senseigreen]

WHEW! after reading the first and last pages, are you sure you don't just want to get a NEW rig running XP, format the drive and put old reliable 98 on it?
It reminds me of the advice an army buddy gave me when I was having car troubles it went like this:
"All you need is a new radiator cap"
"Wow, really I was worried!"
"Yes, get a new radiator cap and then drive a car under it!"

[lgbpop]

WHEW! after reading the first and last pages, are you sure you don't just want to get a NEW rig running XP, format the drive and put old reliable 98 on it?

No, not really.

I'm almost 50 and can afford a brand-new off-the-shelf computer, but where's the fun in that? When I'm done I'll know how this beastie works, why it works, and I will have made it myself. ;)

P.S.--I'm sorry for the strident tone earlier, I should be less brusque. I never dreamed even a month ago that, with the help of all the great people here, I would learn so much about computers--let alone actually do something I've wanted to try for years. When I'm this close I don't quit. :)

[Train]

And after you have the first one up and running, you will wonder "Why was I so scared to take that first step!"

Been there myself. :D

But on the same token, I agee that building is not everyones bag, even though after you see how the hardware is all tied together, you will have a better idea of some of the concepts [ yep $50 word] of how a comnputer basically works.

Sure makes for easier troubleshootin.

[lgbpop]

Just got the case and mobo/processor today. Now it's no longer a mess of parts, but a computer needing assembly...as well as a few more things. I changed my mind and decided to buy new DVD/CD-RW units, a floppy reader for my older stuff and a flash-media card reader. Recycled components have lost their appeal for me (104456, you were right!). Any recommendations on brands for the DVD/CD units? I figure I'll buy two, so I can record directly from one to the other. Also, should I buy both with the write-ability, or make the second one a ROM unit? USB or IDE? Am looking in the US$50-60 range for each, ideally $100 max but I'm flexible. The media card reader will be handy for viewing pics from all the digital cameras the family has (one xD, two SD and I forgot the other one). Found this at Newegg:
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16820300606
Figure that ought to cover anything. Also, I do need an HSF and am buying this one:
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16835118119
It also comes available in copper/aluminum for $10 less, but copper has better coefficient of heat absorption. Anyone have thoughts one way or the other? And no, I didn't forget the Arctic Silver! Lastly, ordering two case fans, 120mm front and back, one blue and one red LED (just in case I decide to make/buy a see-through side cover) by Thermaltake; and a new keyboard/mouse combo by Logitech: http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16823126136
Seems like a well-thought out combo, and my other Logitech stuff is bulletproof.
If I've forgotten anything by now, it can wait. This last order should be delivered early next week, then the fun starts. ;)

[liam858]

Drives, Lite-on/NEC/Sony, any colour preference? and i came across a nice combo card reader/drive, but its here in the UK, newegg don't seem to stock them, they have floppy drive/card reader drives which would be okay.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16821104104 - Its an internal USB drive.

Nice choice in Keyboard/Mouse, and Heatsink.:)


Liam

[lgbpop]

Made my mind up, going with the all-copper Zalman. At this point $10 is immaterial. Did see some combo floppy/card readers but those carried by Newegg didn't have xD format capability (our camera, natch). Color on the 5.25" drives? Going with white if possible, set off the blue case so says the wife. She thinks the project is wonderful, go figure...I thought she'd go into orbit when she learned of it but she sees the benefit. Guess I'll upgrade her laptop to 2GB memory and return the favor. ;)

[liam858]

She thinks the project is wonderful, go figure...I thought she'd go into orbit when she learned of it but she sees the benefit. Guess I'll upgrade her laptop to 2GB memory and return the favor.


Lol, its like an interior design project now, looking at colour samples? :D

Is everything being purchased "Retail"? as in, will you be sure to get everything you could need to get this baby going when it arrives e.g Drive cables(IDE/SATA) with motherboard.


Liam

[lgbpop]

Just thought of something: If I had two writeable CD/DVD drives, could they be set up to run different projects concurrently? For example, be burning an Excel project to one disk while viewing a DVD on the other?

[104456]

They do have several 3 1/2" internal/external multi card readers here (http://www.newegg.com/OldVersion/app/SearchProductResult.asp?DEPA=7) that will mount below a floppy drive if thats what your looking for.
http://images10.newegg.com/ProductImageCompressAll125/20-404-001-01.jpg

[liam858]

Yeah, i think you can burn on 2 seperate drives, only if you have the drives on different cables(i think) 104456 will correct me if i'm wrong.


Liam

[104456]

Was wondering about this type: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1224105&CatId=369
For the price, I may go this route and upgrade later; re-use the cheap one on my crash-test Compaq. :D



Heres a PCI wireless card for less (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1272636&CatId=368) as to the fan its £54 + delivery over here or $74.95 (http://www.sharkacomputers.com/zacn95ledcpu.html) to yous yankeeshttp://bestsmileys.com/fainting/1.gif

[lgbpop]

Lol, its like an interior design project now, looking at colour samples? :D

Is everything being purchased "Retail"? as in, will you be sure to get everything you could need to get this baby going when it arrives e.g Drive cables(IDE/SATA) with motherboard.


Liam

If she likes Paisley she can have it as long as it gets completed! :eek: And yes, all of the necessary paraphernalia are included. Between mobo, PSU and case I'll have leftovers. Can't have enough cables! Someday I may post a pic of my desk drawer, designed for Pendaflex folders but full to the top with coaxial, IDE, AC, parallel port, you name it. 104456, I'm going with the Sabrent 42-in-1 reader. Saw the others but must have the xD compatibility. Fan is the Zalman 7000 for socket-A use, the other won't work sigh. Sure like that one, though...lastly, going wired. Running a LAN cord through the wall to my soon-to-be new office, only 7' from the router. Plug-in wall jacks on both sides, professional-looking if I do say so myself.

[lgbpop]

Been thinking how to set up HDD once I get the remaining components. I'd like a triple-boot setup with: Win98SE, Vista/Longhorn when it comes out, and Linux. Always been dismissive of XP but the wife likes it, so I'll install that for her until the new one comes out and let her decide which one she wants. I've been intrigued with Linux; I'd like to install it and explore its possibilities. I'm looking at Fedora and SuSE. With 160GB to play with, I thought I'd partition the HDD into 3x8GB drives for the OSs and their program files, then use the remaining 136GB+/- for file storage (photos, book research, etc.). If I need more storage, adding another HDD would be pretty simple. Am I on the right track here? Presently, none of the house computers (98SE and XP) are even close to 10GB used and that includes nominal file storage. Is FDISK adequate for formatting this way? Does Linux pose any special problems?

[104456]

If you just want to try Linux first there are plenty of Live CDs which you boot from and Linux runs from there and virtual memory instead of installing.A little slower that an actual install but it will give you a taste of what its like.
The like of Knoppix (http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html) is one of the better known versions and you can also get very small versions that run from mini CDs or Thumbdrives like Puppy Linux (http://www.goosee.com/puppy/).

[lgbpop]

Anyone familiar with the Rosewill brand? Newegg has a decent price on a 19" LCD monitor and people who have bought it seem to like it, but I'm not sure. Acer was another one I was looking at. All I know about Rosewill is they make monitors, PSUs, etc. and are a Chinese make (heck, what isn't these days...).

[liam858]

They look pretty nice, if they've got good things to offer and are at a good price then why not, whats the warranty length? and do they offer a dead pixel replacement cover plan?


Liam

[lgbpop]

3 year parts/labor by mfr, and yes. ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824021034) I talked myself into it, had to buy myself another hard drive to make me feel better about it. ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822144359) :D

[liam858]

Nice buy!, and i know what you mean i do it too,:D did you go with another 80gb?


Liam

[lgbpop]

Oops....copied wrong s/c, should have been: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822144359
The shortcut's been "deactivated temporarily" so if it doesn't work, it's a Maxtor SATA150 300GB for US$131.00. Took a lot to make myself feel good, know what I mean? ;)

[liam858]

:D Nice, did you check the reviews:

mine came with a 15 pin power supply, not a standard 4 pin and I had to order an adapter;) just a head's up.


Liam

[lgbpop]

Yeah, between the PSU and the HDD I already bought (retail) I have enough power and mobo connectors for 4 HDDs. Life is good. :) The SATA power connector looks like a mini version of an IDE connector, see picture--they're the flat, black connectors toward the right.

[liam858]

Cool, just making sure you made sure.:p


300gb ey, should be nice to fill up, i might purchase myself one......if only Newegg shipped internationally and for a good price, $131 is pretty sweet price, imagine it halved and add a £ sign.:)


Liam

[lgbpop]

Yeah, about 70 quid I think. Wish I could remember how to get the international symbols and accents on the keyboard but I'm tired! Too hot out today. (just got home form work.)

[lgbpop]

Well, all the components arrived and I'm ready to start assembling everything tomorrow. Already curious about one thing: The Zalman CPU heatsink/fan unit is HUGE, easily weighs a pound or more! Is there any risk of the motherboard bowing one way or the other under that kind of weight? Might it be smart to mount something between the back of the mobo and the case (even with standoffs) to avoid possible contact? I'll probably laugh at my caution later, but this sucker is almost intimidating!

[liam858]

Should be okay, it screws directly into the Motherboard.;)



Liam

[104456]

If your unsure just post it all to my house :rolleyes: :D :D

No it should be fine as long as you dont go banging the system round.

[lgbpop]

Finally got it built despite the busy weekend. I'd been asked if I had any photos even before I started, so I took several to post.
http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/5546/readytostart0vh.th.jpg (http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=readytostart0vh.jpg)http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/329/casefront2av.th.jpg (http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=casefront2av.jpg)http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/7901/caseback0ab.th.jpg (http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=caseback0ab.jpg)http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/5142/psubigfan2ny.th.jpg (http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=psubigfan2ny.jpg)
All the goodies I've collected; front & back views of the chassis, and the bottom of the PSU. Heard a lot here about adequate ventilation, so there are 120mm fans front and back, and a 140mm fan in the PSU.
(Click on photos to enlarge)

[lgbpop]

Four more pics....
http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/9229/mobotogo8xp.th.jpg (http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mobotogo8xp.jpg) http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/8375/doneatlast6jt.th.jpg (http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=doneatlast6jt.jpg) http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/3227/firsttimeonline1im.th.jpg (http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=firsttimeonline1im.jpg) http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/6780/nochargeforthelights9ij.th.jpg (http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nochargeforthelights9ij.jpg)
The assembled motherboard (thanks to you all for the great tips and advice about the CPU fan!); the completed tower; first boot, after loading the first OS and firewall/antivirus programs; not even sunset yet and the lights look OK already.
Matter of fact, thanks to all for all the helpful tips, advice, and opinions during this project. Will probably still be asking questions for a month until I get the thing fine-tuned!

[Abhoth]

Great job there lgbpop ... it's always cool to fire one up that you just built and load it up! Congrats!!!

[Rex A. Butcher]

lgbpop,

Have been following this thread with interest as I am thinking of building my own computer.

What do you think your total cost was? Presumably, you have a better machine than buying off the shelf? Also, can you post a list of the actual components?

Many thanks,

Rex

[lgbpop]

Rex--funny you should ask. Started a list in Notepad, after I update it with the contents of the last two deliveries I'll post a complete list. BTW, stop thinking about it and do it! :) More fun than you could believe. The possibilities are endless, whether you want to make a bare-bones cheapo or shoot for the moon.

[liam858]

Viewing 98 in all it's glory.:D

Nice internal shot above, nice and tidy, and i need to take mine apart and rebuild it now just for the hell of it, after adding my TV card before i want to do a bit more, i might get a new case just to transfer everything over.;)


Liam

[lgbpop]

Still working on the component & cost list, should find the rest of the invoices later. Question in the meantime: mobo on-board audio is AC97 codecs, same as on my old HP w/98SE. With the new machine, audio in XP boot mode is fine, about the same as on the HP; but booted up in 98SE the audio is barely audible. Obviously it's a setting in 98SE I'm overlooking but darned if I know what or where it is. Monitor, keyboard and computer volume controls are all @ 100% and nothing's on mute. Any ideas?

[liam858]

Hmmm, so your dual booting (XP/98SE), have you checked Device Manager in 98 to see if it is installed ok on this OS, and if it is try reinstalling the OS specific drivers.


Liam

[lgbpop]

Thx for pointing me in the right direction. Device Mgr showed driver was there but not installed; wouldn't load, due I guessed to presence of another one somewhere. I rooted around in Program Files and found a program by Via called Vinyl Deck, which turned out to be my missing link. I clicked on the setup icon and it loaded the audio amp/equalizer just fine. Gonna get a sound card someday though, it still lacks presence.

[liam858]

Good, Glad its sort of fixed for the moment, i'd let your credit card have a rest and then splash out on a Creative Soundcard soon.;):D


Liam